ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

[Tortoise]

The idea that a mother who knows her children were murdered and wasn't in on it, would be prancing around in Hawaii laughing at her wedding, and not grieving, is preposterous. She's not even in a state of grief when Colby phones her, she justifies their deaths. Not even when Chad told her they were searching the property did she ask do you think Alex could have put them there, they tiptoe around even mentioning the yard, because they both know that's where they put the children, with prior planning, and know her calls are recorded.

Jury selection has weeded out jurors who don't get that circumstantial evidence is of equal weight to direct evidence. You couldn't serve on a jury if you would require a written record of intent to murder, or a video of the murder to determine guilt. There is already so much circumstantial evidence amassed in this case.

https://twitter.com/PrettyLiesAlibi
@PrettyLiesAlibi
·
Apr 4

Prosecutor Smith is talking about circumstantial evidence. They give the example of a kid with cookie crumbs on their mouth would you assume the kid ate it? Juror says yes and Pros. Smith says THAT is circumstantial evidence and we would hold that child accountable

 

[Nikynoo]

Of course I believe the cult conspired to get rid of Tylee and JJ. But I'm not completely sure why. I think it is entirely possible that Chad and Lori convinced Alex to kill Tylee with a wink and a nod. Is that a conspiracy? Legally, yes, probably. Is there evidence of if it? I haven't seen any,

I am now 100% in the camp that there was a plan. But I'm just seeing very week evidence being presented and if I were a juror I would definitely have reasonable doubt at this point. That could easily change.

IMO, Lori killed both the children in a fit of rage. Tylee because she wanted access to HER money (remember she needed to make the Jeep payment). I suspect that the arrangement between Lori and Tylee for the change of bank fo receipt of the SS payment was short term arrangement until Lori received the $60,000 life insurance pay out for Joe Ryan (which IIRC was paid to Lori on the 31st August) and/or the SS payment in respect to Charles death. I am speculating that when Lori refused to change it back or hand any money over, the two had a huge argument and Lori killed Tylee. I also specualte that Tylee knew the real story of Charles' death, so was seen as a liability.
I am struggling with a definitive plan for JJ, as Lori did enrol him in school in Idaho - but that was probably so she didn't have to have him full time. IMO JJ's behaviour just got too much/or was inconvenient (especially when he scratch Chad's neck), so Lori killed him too. IMO she bound him up to make him quiet and keep him still and then decided to make it permanent.

IMO Alex did not kill the children and I am doubtful that he killed Tammy. I am not sure about Charles - I have Lori own for that one too.

MOO.

 

[Nikynoo]

Of course I believe the cult conspired to get rid of Tylee and JJ. But I'm not completely sure why. I think it is entirely possible that Chad and Lori convinced Alex to kill Tylee with a wink and a nod. Is that a conspiracy? Legally, yes, probably. Is there evidence of if it? I haven't seen any,

I am now 100% in the camp that there was a plan. But I'm just seeing very week evidence being presented and if I were a juror I would definitely have reasonable doubt at this point. That could easily change.

BBM - I don't think the 'cult' conspired, I think it was just Chad and Lori and the reason why, is they wanetd to be together, just the two of them. The children and their respective spouses were merely an inconvenience, though the spouses had the added benefit of financing the dream of being together.

I am curious to know whether either of the children had life insurance? I think not, as they would have to be declared dead for Lori to collect and she didn't even report them missing.

 

[Kemug]

The only thing CD lacked to be akin to Manson was lsd/acid trips.

Apparently Manson had an awful childhood. As far as we know Chad's childhood was fine, so I don't believe his crimes can be laid at anyone else's door in the slightest.

 

[Kemug]

Something has been niggling away in my brain - wasn't there a movie about a married couple who were trying to murder each other? I think it may well have come to this with Chad and Lori. JMO

 

[watergirl62]

July 26, 2019:

“Tonight I figured out who I feel like,” Chad texted Lori. “I’m a grown-up version of Harry Potter, who has to live with the Dudleys in his little space under the stairs. Every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my Goddess lover, but then I have to return to my place under the stairs, feeling trapped. But I sense permanent freedom is coming!”

To me this speaks volumes, specifically to the "no minor children" requirement for the 144K.

Yes Chad, everyday life as a parent with all of its commitments and responsibilities can feel burdensome at times but it is part of being an adult. Children are a gift - he did not appreciate how good he had it!

Not the victim. Not a teenager. Not a special snowflake. Not Harry Potter. Not James the Just. Not the Holy Ghost. Just... Chad.

I do love the thought that now he will be trapped under the stairs forever. Irony much?

'My Goddess lover.' Messages reveal romantic relationship between Chad and Lori Daybell before Tammy Daybell's death - East Idaho News

CHANDLER, Arizona — Text messages between Chad and Lori Daybell paint a picture of a romantic relationship long before Tammy Daybell died two years ago. The messages were included in a large file released from the Chandler Arizona Police regarding Charles Vallow’s death. Charles was married to...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[nhmemorymaker]

And, there's that... Jason Mow.

finally.....
i have been so surprised that his name has not come up until now.

 

[Love Never Fails]

finally.....
i have been so surprised that his name has not come up until now.

This trial has been so long coming and I’ve forgotten Jason Mow. Who is he? Thanks.

 

[indicolite22]

I think there was a meeting of the minds. But where is the hard evidence. Do we get to assume that probably Lori and Chad wanted the kids and spouses gone so they could finally <modsnip - circumventing the profanity filter>? Of course they did. But they need to be convicted based on evidence. After 3 years of following this situation I personally believe they "conspired" to kill the kids and Tammy. But I am still far from being convinced that Lori (or Chad) specifically conspired to murder. I'm just not seeing good evidence.

Alex had zero motive to kill any of the people. He did not profit from their deaths, but Lori and Chad did. Alex 100% believed in Chad's doctrine. He quit his job to move to Idaho with Lori. Chad made up a bunch of nonsense about Alex's past lives to make him feel important for their cause. Alex shot at BB and Tammy, but missed both, after which Lori complained that "the idiot couldn't do anything right on his own". After all their targets were dead, Chad thanked him for his services with a patriarchal blessing.

ETA - Alex's quotes: "Either I am a man od God, or I'm not." and "I think I'm their fall guy."

 

[indicolite22]

finally.....
i have been so surprised that his name has not come up until now.

I don't think he (or Thor) is important for this case. If he was a part of Chad's group (his past lives and dark/light rating are available), he dropped off before the castings started, because he wasn't present for any that we know of.

 

[mrjitty]

The idea that a mother who knows her children were murdered and wasn't in on it, would be prancing around in Hawaii laughing at her wedding, and not grieving, is preposterous. She's not even in a state of grief when Colby phones her, she justifies their deaths. Not even when Chad told her they were searching the property did she ask do you think Alex could have put them there, they tiptoe around even mentioning the yard, because they both know that's where they put the children, with prior planning, and know her calls are recorded.

Jury selection has weeded out jurors who don't get that circumstantial evidence is of equal weight to direct evidence. You couldn't serve on a jury if you would require a written record of intent to murder, or a video of the murder to determine guilt. There is already so much circumstantial evidence amassed in this case.

https://twitter.com/PrettyLiesAlibi
@PrettyLiesAlibi
·
Apr 4

Prosecutor Smith is talking about circumstantial evidence. They give the example of a kid with cookie crumbs on their mouth would you assume the kid ate it? Juror says yes and Pros. Smith says THAT is circumstantial evidence and we would hold that child accountable

Right?

Like even if you could possibly believe such a scenario - how does it get into evidence?

Defence counsel can't simply invent some wild tale which the accused has never told anyone about

 

[Love Never Fails]

IMO, Lori killed both the children in a fit of rage. Tylee because she wanted access to HER money (remember she needed to make the Jeep payment). I suspect that the arrangement between Lori and Tylee for the change of bank fo receipt of the SS payment was short term arrangement until Lori received the $60,000 life insurance pay out for Joe Ryan (which IIRC was paid to Lori on the 31st August) and/or the SS payment in respect to Charles death. I am speculating that when Lori refused to change it back or hand any money over, the two had a huge argument and Lori killed Tylee. I also specualte that Tylee knew the real story of Charles' death, so was seen as a liability.
I am struggling with a definitive plan for JJ, as Lori did enrol him in school in Idaho - but that was probably so she didn't have to have him full time. IMO JJ's behaviour just got too much/or was inconvenient (especially when he scratch Chad's neck), so Lori killed him too. IMO she bound him up to make him quiet and keep him still and then decided to make it permanent.

IMO Alex did not kill the children and I am doubtful that he killed Tammy. I am not sure about Charles - I have Lori own for that one too.

MOO.

I believe you have one thing right, if not all. LV has a violent temper which she tries to cover with her super sweet smile.

I do think Alex was used to assist Lori and Chad to bury JJ and Tylee. And he either shot at Tammy and missed or Chad did and then ran around his own home.

As for the timeline with Charles, I believe she could have absolutely shot Charles.

Whoever shot at Tammy and Brandon, missed.

 

[mrjitty]

Alex had zero motive to kill any of the people. He did not profit from their deaths, but Lori and Chad did. Alex 100% believed in Chad's doctrine. He quit his job to move to Idaho with Lori. Chad made up a bunch of nonsense about Alex's past lives to make him feel important for their cause. Alex shot at BB and Tammy, but missed both, after which Lori complained that "the idiot couldn't do anything right on his own". After all their targets were dead, Chad thanked him for his services with a patriarchal blessing.

I'd never considered the possibility that Alex wasn't the shooter in the Charles murder. Was that not verified?

I guess if he wasn't, its possible he intentionally missed when he shot at BB and Tammy?

I also agree Lori was directly involved with the kids. That is brutal stuff.

 

[indicolite22]

I'd never considered the possibility that Alex wasn't the shooter in the Charles murder. Was that not verified?

I guess if he wasn't, its possible he intentionally missed when he shot at BB and Tammy?

I also agree Lori was directly involved with the kids. That is brutal stuff.

I meant to say that Alex did not have a motive of his own. Lori and Chad provided a motive to him in each case: all the victims were zombies. IMO Alex did shoot Charles and harmed both JJ and Tylee (we don't know how they died). It is possible that he was alone with the children, although Lori likely drugged them beforehand. Why did Alex miss not one, but two targets? Maybe he was surprised by Tammy's reaction. It was pure luck that he missed BB.

 

[Nikynoo]

I'd never considered the possibility that Alex wasn't the shooter in the Charles murder. Was that not verified?

I guess if he wasn't, its possible he intentionally missed when he shot at BB and Tammy?

I also agree Lori was directly involved with the kids. That is brutal stuff.

AFAIK - there was only the statement of Alex, Lori and Tylee (who was not present when Charles was shot), that confirmed Alex was the shooter. No forensics that I am aware of.

 

[aafromaa]

…..

Defence counsel can't simply invent some wild tale which the accused has never told anyone about

Isn’t that exactly what Casey Anthony’s defense did?

 

[aafromaa]

deleted - duplicate post - apologies

 

[fred&edna]

The idea that a mother who knows her children were murdered and wasn't in on it, would be prancing around in Hawaii laughing at her wedding, and not grieving, is preposterous. She's not even in a state of grief when Colby phones her, she justifies their deaths. Not even when Chad told her they were searching the property did she ask do you think Alex could have put them there, they tiptoe around even mentioning the yard, because they both know that's where they put the children, with prior planning, and know her calls are recorded.

Jury selection has weeded out jurors who don't get that circumstantial evidence is of equal weight to direct evidence. You couldn't serve on a jury if you would require a written record of intent to murder, or a video of the murder to determine guilt. There is already so much circumstantial evidence amassed in this case.

https://twitter.com/PrettyLiesAlibi
@PrettyLiesAlibi
·
Apr 4

Prosecutor Smith is talking about circumstantial evidence. They give the example of a kid with cookie crumbs on their mouth would you assume the kid ate it? Juror says yes and Pros. Smith says THAT is circumstantial evidence and we would hold that child accountable

I agree.

I think the prosecution is showing those cookie crumbs bit by bit, little by little... showing/building the evidence against LVD... just what they are suppose to do.

 

[wnk]

Tidied up my witness list in preparation for today's trial coverage, adding links to the full audio of each day and highlighting which witnesses the defense cross-examined.

--------------------

LESLIE BLAKE: STATE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statement: "The defendant used money, power, and sex to get what she wanted. It didn't matter what it was."

JAMES ARCHIBALD: DEFENSE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statement: "The evidence will show Lori was a kind and loving mother."

KAY WOODCOCK: STATE WITNESS, grandmother of JJ (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr10)
CV's life insurance (Feb 2019), JJ's disappearance (Aug 2019), wedding items on CV's Amazon account (Oct 2019) X-EXAM

BRANDON BORDEAUX: STATE WITNESS, ex-husb of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio Apr10)
attempted shooting from Jeep (Oct 2019) X-EXAM

RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, audio Apr11, Apr12)
Jeep surveillance, welfare check & search warrants (Nov 2019), discovery of JJ & TR bodies (Jun 2020) X-EXAM

JARED WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Madison Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
CD & LVD prison phone call as bodies were discovered (Jun 2020)

JOE POWELL: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
surveillance on CD & LVD (Nov 2019), exhumation of TD's body (Dec 2019) X-EXAM

MELANIE GIBB: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, audio Apr13)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; CD & LVD's phone call with MG (Dec 2019), MG & DW's visit to LVD's on last day JJ was seen (Sep 2019) X-EXAM

NATHAN DUNCAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr13, Apr14)
shooting of CV (Jul 2019), CD's call to mortuary (Jul 2019), CD's blessing to AC (Jun 2019), "CV"'s email to CD & CV's emails to TD (Jun 2019), texts from CV to LVD (Jul 2019), texts between CD & LVD about CV's insurance (Jul 2019), AC's "2manykids" text to LVD (Sep 2019)

ZULEMA PASTENES: STATE WITNESS, wife of AC (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr14, Apr18)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; "Idiot can't do anything right by himself" on night TD was shot at (Oct 2019), "I think I'm being their fall guy" (Dec 2019) X-EXAM

COLBY RYAN: STATE WITNESS, son of LVD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18)
financial issues; prison phone call between CR & LVD (Jul? 2020) X-EXAM

MIKE SAARI: STATE WITNESS, Social Security Administration (summary 1, audio Apr18)
social security payments

CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18, Apr19)
bank statements, prescriptions, flights

MIKE DOUGLASS: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr19)
timelines of financials

SCOTT COWDEN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler FD paramedic (summary 1, audio Apr19)
AC did not provide CPR to CV after shooting (Jul 2019)

AIREL WERTHER: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19)
following up with LVD after CV's death (Jul 2019) X-EXAM

SANDRA YNCLAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19)
interviewed LVD & TD after CV's death (Jul 2019) X-EXAM

APRIL RAYMOND: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio Apr19)
LVD & TR's stay in HI, LVD was "done with JJ" (Feb 2019) X-EXAM

 

[Niner]

Tidied up my witness list in preparation for today's trial coverage, adding links to the full audio of each day and highlighting which witnesses the defense cross-examined.

--------------------

LESLIE BLAKE: STATE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statement: "The defendant used money, power, and sex to get what she wanted. It didn't matter what it was."

JAMES ARCHIBALD: DEFENSE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statement: "The evidence will show Lori was a kind and loving mother."

KAY WOODCOCK: STATE WITNESS, grandmother of JJ (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr10)
CV's life insurance (Feb 2019), JJ's disappearance (Aug 2019), wedding items on CV's Amazon account (Oct 2019) X-EXAM

BRANDON BORDEAUX: STATE WITNESS, ex-husb of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio Apr10)
attempted shooting from Jeep (Oct 2019) X-EXAM

RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, audio Apr11, Apr12)
Jeep surveillance, welfare check & search warrants (Nov 2019), discovery of JJ & TR bodies (Jun 2020) X-EXAM

JARED WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Madison Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
CD & LVD prison phone call as bodies were discovered (Jun 2020)

JOE POWELL: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
surveillance on CD & LVD (Nov 2019), exhumation of TD's body (Dec 2019) X-EXAM

MELANIE GIBB: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, audio Apr13)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; CD & LVD's phone call with MG (Dec 2019), MG & DW's visit to LVD's on last day JJ was seen (Sep 2019) X-EXAM

NATHAN DUNCAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr13, Apr14)
shooting of CV (Jul 2019), CD's call to mortuary (Jul 2019), CD's blessing to AC (Jun 2019), "CV"'s email to CD & CV's emails to TD (Jun 2019), texts from CV to LVD (Jul 2019), texts between CD & LVD about CV's insurance (Jul 2019), AC's "2manykids" text to LVD (Sep 2019)

ZULEMA PASTENES: STATE WITNESS, wife of AC (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr14, Apr18)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; "Idiot can't do anything right by himself" on night TD was shot at (Oct 2019), "I think I'm being their fall guy" (Dec 2019) X-EXAM

COLBY RYAN: STATE WITNESS, son of LVD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18)
financial issues; prison phone call between CR & LVD (Jul? 2020) X-EXAM

MIKE SAARI: STATE WITNESS, Social Security Administration (summary 1, audio Apr18)
social security payments

CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18, Apr19)
bank statements, prescriptions, flights

MIKE DOUGLASS: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr19)
timelines of financials

SCOTT COWDEN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler FD paramedic (summary 1, audio Apr19)
AC did not provide CPR to CV after shooting (Jul 2019)

AIREL WERTHER: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19)
following up with LVD after CV's death (Jul 2019) X-EXAM

SANDRA YNCLAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19)
interviewed LVD & TD after CV's death (Jul 2019) X-EXAM

APRIL RAYMOND: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio Apr19)
LVD & TR's stay in HI, LVD was "done with JJ" (Feb 2019) X-EXAM

WOW! Good job!