ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

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BUF said:
This cousin just did an interview with Justin Lum. I wonder why she is doing interviews now? Last time she saw Tylee is when she was three yrs old, and never met JJ.
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yes I the was my initial reaction but she gives her two main reasons here.
what do you think of her points?

(part of Lum's interview)
 
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indicolite22 said:
I have seen no indication that MG or DW have lied about murder. DW might have been the one who talked some sense into MG and made her go to police when they realized that murder was at stake.
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I don't have reason to think either are criminally responsible, either, to be clear.

But they are evasive and not telling all about cultish aspects of LDS and their radicalized interpretation of it, IMO. They are also not being forthcoming about all the see on hindsight. I understand and forgive missed red flags and danger signals because of past beliefs.

I feel less patient with pretending to have never been sucked into a belief system that caused danger signals to be missed. Because that forces evasive answers about those danger signs.

I would rather a witness report what really happened and say, "it's obvious to me now that it wasn't okay, but at the time, it just seemed normal to me," than to be evasive and forgetful and claim to have never been- like minded- as they call it.

Of course I am grateful for both of their testimonies. But I'm not feeling it that either of those two are being 100% honest with anybody, including themselves.

MOO
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I had never seen this interview, and found it soooo valuable. She represents the truth and reality of what was really going on in Arizona, before and after the death of Charles.

Thank you, so much, for posting this....
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If you like that, look into the girl on fire interview. She was pulled into the similar Julie Row scheme which almost destroyed her marriage, too.
 
Nikynoo said:
The guests, that’s one of the reasons why I think Lori killed JJ impulsively, she didn’t want him embarrassing her.
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I don't know how many rolls of duct tape were on that child. I don't think it was impulse.

She's not charged with a crime of impulse against JJ(or anybody). So if the jury agrees in was impulsive, she should be acquitted of murder in regards to JJ.
 

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I would say that LVD is definitely an "outlier" on marriages and divorces in the LDS church. After all, she had three divorces before she married Charles Vallow. That is not common, even in the general public.

<modsnip>
 
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mickey2942 said:
I would say that LVD is definitely an "outlier" on marriages and divorces in the LDS church. After all, she had three divorces before she married Charles Vallow. That is not common, even in the general public.

As for in general do LDS get divorced more often? I don't know. Hardly anyone in my extended family is divorced.
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How many of Lori's husbands, apart from Chad, were LDS in the first place? I know that Charles converted for her, but I'm not sure about the first three. Also, Lori's family didn't attend her weddings.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I had never seen this interview, and found it soooo valuable. She represents the truth and reality of what was really going on in Arizona, before and after the death of Charles.

Thank you, so much, for posting this....
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She looks off to her right a lot. To me, looking left is remembering, looking right is making it up. Has that been debunked in the years since I picked it up?
 
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nhmemorymaker said:
I had never seen this interview, and found it soooo valuable. She represents the truth and reality of what was really going on in Arizona, before and after the death of Charles.

Thank you, so much, for posting this....
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Fascinating insights.
 
Ruminations said:
I don't have reason to think either are criminally responsible, either, to be clear.

But they are evasive and not telling all about cultish aspects of LDS and their radicalized interpretation of it, IMO. They are also not being forthcoming about all the see on hindsight. I understand and forgive missed red flags and danger signals because of past beliefs.

I feel less patient with pretending to have never been sucked into a belief system that caused danger signals to be missed. Because that forces evasive answers about those danger signs.

I would rather a witness report what really happened and say, "it's obvious to me now that it wasn't okay, but at the time, it just seemed normal to me," than to be evasive and forgetful and claim to have never been- like minded- as they call it.

Of course I am grateful for both of their testimonies. But I'm not feeling it that either of those two are being 100% honest with anybody, including themselves.

MOO
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Well stated, and understood.
They DID believe, so be honest about it. This is why I think Lori wants her chance to crucify (figurative) Melanie in public if she can. I have always "felt" Melanie had a devious side, even though it doesn't show much.....
 
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indicolite22 said:
How many of Lori's husbands, apart from Chad, were LDS in the first place? I know that Charles converted for her, but I'm not sure about the first three. Also, Lori's family didn't attend her weddings.
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Pretty sure my research came up with Chad as the ONLY LDS...
but I have to moo on that since it is only my obscure digging.....
 
elliefant said:
[…]

Would Lori have believed they would take to a place of safety those who had been rated as having gone “dark”? Chad rated Tylee as dark (can’t remember if JJ too). I assumed the future post-apocalyptic kingdom was only for “light” people. Why save the “dark” people?
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By their reckoning, dark spirits could possess otherwise good people, displacing their souls to a kind of limbo where they would remain until their possessed bodies died and the souls could then move on to their heavenly reward. This may be something Lori truly believed, making her say her dead children were truly (now) happy in a safe place. Maybe she knew it was Chadly BS, or maybe she just conveniently bought into it. I’m sure that our justice system accepts neither as exculpatory.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I had never seen this interview, and found it soooo valuable. She represents the truth and reality of what was really going on in Arizona, before and after the death of Charles.

Thank you, so much, for posting this....
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She comes across as a really good woman. My heart goes out to her as she has clearly been traumatised by the whole thing. She also feels remorseful for not having done enough - even though there was little she could have done to stop the chain of events. (BTW This is way I would have expected Mel Gibb to have reacted instead of her demeanour in the police interviews or on the covertly taped calls. The latter is also on HTC site, if you haven't listened to it.)

Kudos to Lauren Mathias who keeps getting the interviews both because she's LDS, treats people with respect and sees the bigger picture such as lessons that can be learned from this. ( IMO there are cults & extreme fringe groups in most religions and always broader lessons to be learned)
 
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From what I have seen in the trial, I think MG believed in Chad's teaching, without the killing part. But I'm not convinced DW ever bought into ANY of the main ideas that Chad invented.

The relationship of DW to CD, by all accounts, is that DW is a fellow "teacher" with his own set of beliefs (ie, not a subordinate in any way), and DW preceded CD. They ran in the same "get prepared" circles (if I understand correctly), but Chad's light/dark and zombies and "we are the gatherers of the 144,000" and the ideas of CD/LVD personally interacting with Jesus and Moroni and angels, all that was invented by Chad (and/or Lori). That being the case, I would expect other "get prepared" teachers might tend to look at such ideas side-eyed and with significant skepticism, and perhaps with some degree of superiority to CD, and the fact that DW did NOT co-publish with CD hints that he might have been one who all along felt it to be a lot of hogwash. As I see it.

I will add that I think that DW was in their orbit at times because CD and the others were still hoping to persuade DW to buy into the nonsense, and using various means of attempted persuasion (including sleepovers, marriage, private talks, etc) but to no avail.
 
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on the subject of divorce & re marriage on the cult side of PAP ( not the broader LDS side) ....
There's another show on HTC where Lauren and researcher Julie trawl through Chad's past comments about Tammy. They draw various sources together., if anybody interested I will post the link.

It has details such as Chad having had multiple affairs; having spoken to others about his supposed visions that T would die young but this was prior to meeting Lori; that quite a few men in the more extreme cult groups were also using this line with women they planned to seduce!
wtte of ' I've had a vision my spouse will die early so I will be free...'

Edited to add: Also Re Lori's family & Alex , HTC also has the interview with writer John Gallt. Gallt managed to get interview with Lori's childhood best friend who confirmed stuff such as Alex having attempted to sexually abuse Lori at age 12. ( According to L who told her that when they were girls)
 
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cottonweaver said:
on the subject of divorce & re marriage on the cult side of PAP ( not the broader LDS side) ....
There's another show on HTC where Lauren and researcher Julie trawl through Chad's past comments about Tammy. They draw various sources together., if anybody interested I will post the link.

It has details such as Chad having had multiple affairs; having spoken to others about his supposed visions that T would die young but this was prior to meeting Lori; that quite a few men in the more extreme cult groups were also using this line with women they planned to seduce!
wtte of ' I've had a vision my spouse will die early so I will be free...'

Edited to add: Also Re Lori's family & Alex , HTC also has the interview with writer John Gallt. Gallt managed to get interview with Lori's childhood best friend who confirmed stuff such as Alex having attempted to sexually abuse Lori at age 12. ( According to L who told her that when they were girls)
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I hesitate to ask this and open myself up to a lot of Ayn Rand fanboy/girling, but who is John Gallt?
 
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