ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

[Ruminations]

I'm interested in any record of a pattern of her fits of rage (spontaneous, unpremeditated rage from her own hand)
' And it's my observation that Lori is prone to impulsiveness, and fits of rage....' etc
Can you elaborate? ( we're four years in & it's hard to remember all of it)

I disagree- I think Lori is very controlled.

But it's an opinion. Unless anyone is qualified to assess such a thing. I'm not. AFAIK neither is SteveS. We just have different interpretations of the same behaviors.

SteveS takes Lori's anger at Colby in the jail house call as impulsive rage. (Like, if this were face to face, Colby would have defensive bruises, and Lori would not be able to stop.)

I take it as calculated punishment. (Want more, she seems to be asking, or do you want the more comfortable exchanges of 'I love you so much!' IMO, she'd turn it off when Colby stopped bothering her.)

Her angry moments I can recall are the jailhouse call, bodycam of talking about Kay getting insurance, and the call from Melanie confronting Lori for telling LE JJ was with her.

It's up to you if you find those episodes like a person who can go into a rage and lose control, or who expresses anger when it helps her, and she stays in control. I don't think any of us have the "right" opinion.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

They (C & LVD) even play mind games with themselves... They don't view these murders as crimes because their egos won't allow it... they hold onto "being chosen by God" as it's all they have.

Does that mean they will never confess? JA stated that before Lori's trial, attempts were made towards a deal, but it fell through.

After listening to her jail phone call with Colby, I think I understand her mindset. She is safe in her belief that she did nothing wrong and is supported by God. Her victims understand her, even if the world doesn't, because they aren't as special. To keep that facade she has to stick to Chad's teachings, so she's not interested in betraying him.

 

[Ruminations]

Reliably? I would say no. Certainly not by a layperson in a home.

IIRC you'd need a lot of air volume injected quickly, something on the order of 400/500 ml or more at a high rate for assured fatality. Can't recall a formula for ml/kg/t offhand but I'd not be putting money on AC, LVD or or anyone else in their circle to pull it off convincingly -- although ZP's alleged mastery of atmospheric forces might make her more of a dab hand at such things, I suppose.

My longrange clinical take -- without any access to the particulars -- would be that AC's weird death is likely another weird coincidence in this weirdest of cases.

Lol, agree. That's a fist full of insulin needles, if your hands are huge. I'm sticking to coincidental until there is something like a google search "how to" by one of the co conspirators.

 

[indicolite22]

Her angry moments I can recall are the jailhouse call, bodycam of talking about Kay getting insurance, and the call from Melanie confronting Lori for telling LE JJ was with her.

SBM. One more possibility why Lori dislikes MG more than ZP: Only one of them called her Korihor.

 

[Ruminations]

Does that mean they will never confess? JA stated that before Lori's trial, attempts were made towards a deal, but it fell through.

After listening to her jail phone call with Colby, I think I understand her mindset. She is safe in her belief that she did nothing wrong and is supported by God. Her victims understand her, even if the world doesn't, because they aren't as special. To keep that facade she has to stick to Chad's teachings, so she's not interested in betraying him.

My take, exactly.
MOO.

 

[Ruminations]

SBM. One more possibility why Lori dislikes MG more than ZP: Only one of the called her Korihor.

Lol, then....

What did David call her?

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Also, Zulema testimony - re the failed attempt on Tammy's life - Lori was “very, very angry – scary angry.”

DAY 10 | LIVE UPDATES: Alex Cox's widow says Chad and Lori Daybell taught demons needed to be bound or burned - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL Here are the sketches from today. 3:23 p.m. Thomas has more cross-examination, but questioning is done for the day. The jury is being dismissed. No court on Monday, but we will resume Tuesday at 8:30 a.m. I’ll post the sketches and audio when we...

www.eastidahonews.com

Zulema's testimony about scary anger supports rage.

I think vindictiveness is controlled and premeditated.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

Nothing is David's idea. Going to a certain sales pitch on Sunday against his judgement. Others call him a visionary, not he, himself. Mel wanted a blessing, not David. And other people were involved in apostasy and unauthorized prophets. Chad wanted to write a book with David, not the other way around.

I think it's clear that David pissed Lori and Chad off. I believe he may have been an alternate spiritual crutch, so to speak, that allowed Mel to take a step away from Lori and Chad.

But I think he is not telling all. He's a liar. I doubt he really challenged Chad except to separate himself from crimes. To stay out of trouble, judging from everything being someone else's fault. Not because it was right.

MOO

If DW is a liar, why did he tell the court that he listened to MG's testimony (and more) when he could have kept quiet about it?

 

[indicolite22]

Lol, then....

What did David call her?

MOO

A wonderful hostess?

 

[Ruminations]

If DW is a liar, why did he tell the court that he listened to MG's testimony (and more) when he could have kept quiet about it?

A broken clock? Twice a day?

I have no idea. That's a good point.

It might be because it's not child-murder. He doesn't lie for lesser charges.

It might also be he's got a more cult-soaked head than I know, and his lies are more like Melanie's. Much self deception and trauma, little insight. Melanie has put herself out more.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

A broken clock? Twice a day?

I have no idea. That's a good point.

It might be because it's not child-murder. He doesn't lie for lesser charges.

It might also be he's got a more cult-soaked head than I know, and his lies are more like Melanie's. Much self deception and trauma, little insight. Melanie has put herself out more.

MOO

I have seen no indication that MG or DW have lied about murder. DW might have been the one who talked some sense into MG and made her go to police when they realized that murder was at stake.

 

[Jolynna]

From being married 5 times to arranging for Alex to taser Joe Ryan (and bragging about it to multiple friends and family members) to cruelly hiding Charles' and JJ's clothes and Charles' truck, Lori's history is one of impulsive, irrational, and cruel behavior. According to Adam Cox's wife, when Lori got tired of her pets she had Alex dump them in the desert. Yes, Lori truly love-bombed her husbands, pets, and children, BUT, when their sheen wore off, almost all of them were disposed of in horrific ways.

People wonder why Lori was attracted to Chad, BUT, just maybe, Lori could sense the part of Chad that liked killing flies as a child. Maybe, Chad's darker side drew her to him. Lori and Chad might truly have been "kindred spirits" or "fire and gasoline", as many have said.

My opinion only.

 

[Deerrun]

@Ruminations

"That and Mel's receiving a text from Lori saying she was putting JJ back to sleep are really suspicious; it is impossible for me to believe it's the truth."

Can you explain this part about a text sent from Lori to Mel. Was this during the night when DW had a nightmare? I had not heard this before. I thought Lori didn't respond to the knocking or texting. Where did you hear this?

Thank you!

 

[fred&edna]

Does that mean they will never confess? JA stated that before Lori's trial, attempts were made towards a deal, but it fell through.

After listening to her jail phone call with Colby, I think I understand her mindset. She is safe in her belief that she did nothing wrong and is supported by God. Her victims understand her, even if the world doesn't, because they aren't as special. To keep that facade she has to stick to Chad's teachings, so she's not interested in betraying him.

No confession from LVD.

CD confession is doubtful... unless the DP along with a jury finding LVD guilty are more persuasive than his special ego.
jmo

 

[SteveS]

About the SS money for Tylee, and the change of accounts --
1 When did Tylee start receiving benefits? And if it was at the death of her father Joe, why would those benefits have legally existed while Lori was married to Charles?
2 Wouldn't there have been an issue of the money going directly to Tylee while she is a minor?
3 Wouldn't Lori in a way have had the right to that money, to repay her for whatever cost she was bearing to raise and support Tylee?
4 If the answer to 3 is yes, could the money have legally been paid into Lori's account, and then used for Tylee's benefit, so long as Tylee did indeed receive at least that much financial support via Lori?

 

[cottonweaver]

I disagree- I think Lori is very controlled.

But it's an opinion. Unless anyone is qualified to assess such a thing. I'm not. AFAIK neither is SteveS. We just have different interpretations of the same behaviors.

SteveS takes Lori's anger at Colby in the jail house call as impulsive rage. (Like, if this were face to face, Colby would have defensive bruises, and Lori would not be able to stop.)

I take it as calculated punishment. (Want more, she seems to be asking, or do you want the more comfortable exchanges of 'I love you so much!' IMO, she'd turn it off when Colby stopped bothering her.)

Her angry moments I can recall are the jailhouse call, bodycam of talking about Kay getting insurance, and the call from Melanie confronting Lori for telling LE JJ was with her.

It's up to you if you find those episodes like a person who can go into a rage and lose control, or who expresses anger when it helps her, and she stays in control. I don't think any of us have the "right" opinion.

MOO

No I don't personally share the opinion either but I was interested in the other member's view (The original post/thread was a couple of pages back about premed or a rage killing, a loss of control and a mad scramble - it's here: ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

I agree with Steve to the extent that she has violent impulses but from what I've seen she likes to keep her hands clean if she can, get somebody else to do the dirty work, take the risks and carry out the acts for her and I think like Chad she's very calculated.
She has a murderous heart and unfortunately whenever she mentioned her desire to eliminate somebody in years prior - nobody ever seems to have called her out either.

 

[cottonweaver]

Lol, then....

What did David call her?

MOO

'...one of the sweetest, kindest, wonderful woman.'
( Context is everything though. He'd been asked to explain why he didn't call the police because of any risk Lori might present to his kids )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1649105967819407360

 

[SteveS]

SteveS takes Lori's anger at Colby in the jail house call as impulsive rage. (Like, if this were face to face, Colby would have defensive bruises, and Lori would not be able to stop.)

I didn't say anything about Colby. More importantly, I wasn't ever saying that every time Lori got upset, she would always fly into a rage and not be able to stop.

Instead, my point is that (a) she seems VERY impulsive and sociopathically self-possessed many times (which means she does what satisfies her emotion of the moment), and (b) she has shown anger, rage, and the capacity for pure cruelty as it suits her in the moment. Put those together, and I think there had to have been many times when she was a fire-breathing dragon who was dangerous to be around, rather than a cool ice-goddess working to impress others.

And based on that, I think it could have been possible that the death of one or both kids (and perhaps Charles too) could have taken place by her snapping in that moment out of rage, frustration, impatience ('I want to get on with my life without you, I'm entitled, and here you've pissed me off again! Take this!!'). In so doing, she isn't doing what was planned, but to her it doesn't matter, so she acts.

That's not saying she never planned or never did things according to plan. There were a LOT of evil plans made and actions to suit. But I have a hard time believing she had the patience and self control to always stick to the plan.

I agree she was always controlling and manipulative with OTHERS, but that's not the same as having self control. Rage and anger can cause people to do things that, on reflection, they would not have done, or would have handled in a much different way.

PS - My point is about the process, and the moment, but it's not in any way an excuse. Nor would it change her criminal liability, if she made plans to murder, and then during the extended process (of weeks or months) did it at a different time or in a different more impulsive way than originally contemplated.

 

[squareandrabbet]

LOL... "Samurai", Nate... "samurai" swords.

Not "Samari", like Ringgu.

 

[Nikynoo]

Perhaps Lori was too busy killing JJ, to answer requests for blessings, IMO

Still I find it hard to believe they would pick an evening when they had guests to murder JJ. No wonder once of their guests had nightmares! JMO

The guests, that’s one of the reasons why I think Lori killed JJ impulsively, she didn’t want him embarrassing her.