ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

[mrjitty]

Here is the best I can come up with, as to what the defence is asking the jury to believe, as a reasonable possibility

Whoops where's Tylee? I'm calling the police!

Hmmm - don't do that Lori! (Gives meaningful stare). Tylee went through some things ... because ... reasons ....

Oh you guys. Don't tell me. Just don't do that again ok? I only have one more kid! I'll cover it up this one time.

< some weeks later >

Whoops where's JJ? Guys ....???

Sorry Lori ...

Reasons??

Reasons.

Oh well. Time to move on. Let's go to Hawaii and get married!

Phew. It'a heavy lift right?

 

[Nikynoo]

Thanks. Have gone back to read your edit & that new link. *
Very weird. As if JJ would use a phrase like that

from ur link - to save people having to open it:
"I have to see my family slaughtered on the news every day," her sister, Summer Shiflet, said. "This mob mentality of calling for… Lori to just be hung in a public square, basically is what it feels like."
....
According to investigators, 7-year-old JJ vanished without a trace on September 23 — but Cox claims she briefly spoke with him on October 1.
"I talked to him," she said. "He just takes the phone, you know, and he knows — you know, he knows who we are."
Rexburg police declined to comment on Cox's claim that she spoke with JJ after his apparent disappearance. Cox provided CBS News with a phone bill she says shows the alleged call.'

They seem very fond of this ' You know who I am ' phrase. (Summer here & LV in the Colby call)
In hindsight now it seems like some weird metaphor for this family but I suppose that in practice this was probably a standard reply during an argument to any accusation or misdeed, large or small.
Imagine using that reply in your own life? it would be very gaslighty.

( Anyway, back to original point - I don't think what Summer says can be trusted, period. JJ was dead & couldn't take the phone to speak to her but she ventured that on national TV. BTW I don't think Summer knew that JJ was already dead but she took a risk there which could have frustrated a police search to save a living child, by claiming she'd spoken to him Oct 1st. Misguided loyalty to her sister Lori, who is obviously the dominant personality. )


* Lori Vallow's mother and sister speak out for the first time

With the Cox family, it is all about appearances. Not internally, as they have their own system for this, but how they are perceived by the outside world. The interview when the children were missing, Summer stated ‘my family is being slaughtered’ and the call between Summer and Lori, Summer stated‘ make a public statement’. This has nothing to do with grief for the children, but is grief for how the Cox family is viewed by the outside world IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

Does anybody recall who arranged the cremation of Alex Cox or who attended his funeral service? Just his ex wife & the Pastenes? Not even Melanie Gibb & those who'd spent a lot of time around him 2018-2019?

( Am just listening to the Summer-Lori call and being reminded of the fact that Lori didn't even tell her family that their brother had died on December 12, 2019)

and neither did Zulema.

 

[cottonweaver]

This is what I felt as well. CVs death seemed to be brushed aside. Surely there should have been a question of the well being of the kids at that stage.

Yes and also considering the amount of violence around these kids as they grew up

Poor Tylee was in the car - only aged 5 - when her mum watched from the car as Alex tasered Joe Ryan, at her request. Later ofc she seems to have been manipulated in some way to go fetch a bat against her stepfather.

None of the women in LV's circle questioned Alex's account & yet they now say they're clear that he had a traumatic brain injury which impacted his behaviour since he was 16. ( And as another member posted - why is he in haulage if he's brain impaired?!)

 

[Nikynoo]

I completely agree. But my understanding of Idaho law is that they have to prove there was an agreement to commit murder. The prosecution is doing a great job of presenting evidence against Chad and Alex. They have presented a a few things against Lori like her comment that "2manykids" was a funny wifi password, searching for life insurance on kids, etc. But were I a juror, it would fall FAR shorth at this point. Boring me with the how many times she texted her boyfriend and brother is counterproductive because it just tells me they have nothing against her, especially after the lead detective testifies they have nothing against her.

I think an important aspect to this (especially in relation to JJ) is that two witnesses place JJ at Lori's townhouse, and testified that JJ was staying in Lori's room that night. Lori's bedroom door, according the MG's testimony, was locked and Lori was not answering calls for assistance with DW's nightmare.Therefore, circumstantially, Lori was the last person to see JJ alive and the jury could infer that Lori killed JJ.

Even if we factor in that perhaps JJ was already dead when Alex brought him back, Lori did not, call an ambulance, call the police,have a breakdown or alert the other guests staying at her townhouse that something had happened to JJ. The jury could make inference of this inaction as to conspiracy.

We have witnesses that describe what Lori stated the next morning (the climbing on kitchen cabinets, the fridge and knocking the picture down) despite not seeing any evidence that this had happened, and that Alex had taken him as JJ was out of control. Again, the jury could make inference as to what really happened based on this information.

Finally, we have the calls between the three of them. IMO, Alex dropped JJ at Chads and Chad undertook the disposal. I would even go so far as to SPECULATE, that the reason that JJ was wrapped so tightly, was to make it easier for Chad to bury and/or to ensure that JJ's body was not treated the same way that Tylee's was. Remember, Alex did not hang around long at Chad's for JJ.

In respect to Tylee - I would be interested to know the locations of the phones for Tylee, Lori and Alex on the night of the 8/9 September (perhaps I have missed this tech evidence already). If Lori and Tylees phones were in Lori's townhouse, Lori killed Tylee and Alex was tasked with transporting the body to Chads property and assisting with its disposal. IIRC, Alex was there a good while and must have witnessed what was done to Tylee's body. IMO, because Chad looked up the wind direction on the 8th for the 9th September, this is strong circumstantial evidence that at least Chad and Lori had conspired to kill Tylee.

JMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes and also considering the amount of violence around these kids as they grew up

Poor Tylee was in the car - only aged 5 - when her mum watched from the car as Alex tasered Joe Ryan, at her request. Later ofc she seems to have been manipulated in some way to go fetch a bat against her stepfather.

None of the women in LV's circle questioned Alex's account & yet they now say they're clear that he had a traumatic brain injury which impacted his behaviour since he was 16. ( And as another member posted - why is he in haulage if he's brain impaired?!)

Re the brain injury, it depends on where the brain is injured. Just because there is a brain injury it does not mean that everything is impaired. IMO, I just think that family had no boundaries and they are lookng for somewhere to place the blame. I would be interested to know the thoughts of the VI who knew Alex well. I hope the VI is coping well with the trial.

 

[Nikynoo]

I am perplexed why the prosecutors did not jump on this. Since Summer is known to be a defense witness and Janis is likely to be, I would think they would want to get testimony on record that could be used to impeach them. Why not ask them, "when is the last time you spoke with JJ and Tylee?"

Maybe there is a lawyering tactic at play here that I am unaware of.

Perhaps the prosecution wanted that recording in evidence and 'compromised' with the witness?

IN any case, IF Summer is called as a defence witness (and I believe she has been released from her supoena), I hope the prosecution exposes those inconsistencies VERY,VERY loudly.

 

[cottonweaver]

Questions Ashleigh didn't ask.

' Hey Mary, why didn't you inform authorities when he was asking for these favours while in jail or did you just refuse to supply Joe's plate, address & photo?'
' You say that Alex would never harm a child but we've heard from close friends and family that he was cruel to animals as well as violent to adults'

Mary has an old interview on HTC but I haven't watched it for years. ( Ashleigh said they were friends for a decade)

 

[BeachSky]

SS recorded prosecutor Wood.
Means & Prior tried to get Wood thrown out via that recording. I don’t trust her. JMO

Yes I caught when Lori said (about dancing
in Hawaii) ‘months after the children had been gone’ . Lolo puts herself smack in the middle of knowing & enjoying the plan IMO

 

[Onsdag]

Here is the best I can come up with, as to what the defence is asking the jury to believe, as a reasonable possibility

Whoops where's Tylee? I'm calling the police!

Hmmm - don't do that Lori! (Gives meaningful stare). Tylee went through some things ... because ... reasons ....

Oh you guys. Don't tell me. Just don't do that again ok? I only have one more kid! I'll cover it up this one time.

< some weeks later >

Whoops where's JJ? Guys ....???

Sorry Lori ...

Reasons??

Reasons.

Oh well. Time to move on. Let's go to Hawaii and get married!

Phew. It'a heavy lift right?

Well said. Don't forget about Tammy either.

Oh Chad, I'd love to marry you and all, but you're already married...

Don't worry hun, the 'Lord' will be taking her soon enough.

Sweet! Can I go ahead and purchase some wedding rings for us?

*nods approvingly*

<sometime later>

Oh Chad, my love, there's still this matter about your wife...

Soon, my dear, soon...

Sweet! I'll make arrangements in Hawaii!

 

[Nikynoo]

SS recorded prosecutor Wood.
Means & Prior tried to get Wood thrown out via that recording. I don’t trust her. JMO

Me neither!!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Google was no help so I tried Urban Dictionary. There are a couple of entries on there that it could refer to. Most are on the vulgar side so I will not repeat them here but one in particular stood out. A quint is a slang term for a very funny person. Not sure what the C. P. would refer to.

One of the characters in Jaws was named Quint.

He was a standup comedian for a while.........
Way back, most of us thought the Quint was one of those vulgar ones!!
But we now know he loved Jaws, so must be from there.

 

[indicolite22]

Perhaps the prosecution wanted that recording in evidence and 'compromised' with the witness?

IN any case, IF Summer is called as a defence witness (and I believe she has been released from her supoena), I hope the prosecution exposes those inconsistencies VERY,VERY loudly.

I think Summer won't be recalled, because she already was asked questions as a defense witness yesterday (with reduced ability of prosecution's objection), according to one of the Twitter reporters from court.

ETA: It was Lori Hellis

..both the defense and the state had Summer on their witness list. The state called her, but to avoid her having to come back, the judge permitted the defense to ask questions on direct. That was why there was no objection to questions that exceeded the scope of the state's cross-examination.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650961511408627712

 

[indicolite22]

He was a standup comedian for a while.........
Way back, most of us thought the Quint was one of those vulgar ones!!

Nate Eaton says in his latest video that Quint came from Jaws. Apparently Alex was a huge fan of the movie.

 

[indicolite22]

SS recorded prosecutor Wood.
Means & Prior tried to get Wood thrown out via that recording. I don’t trust her. JMO

Yes I caught when Lori said (about dancing
in Hawaii) ‘months after the children had been gone’ . Lolo puts herself smack in the middle of knowing & enjoying the plan IMO

I dont' trust her either, but her jail call is probably the most powerful evidence that will sink Lori's ship, even if SS still secretly hopes that only Chad will get blamed. SS also stated in the recording that she was glad that Alex was dead if he was involved in children's deaths. After Alex's death SS made a video compilation about Alex's life.

 

[indicolite22]

SS recorded prosecutor Wood.
Means & Prior tried to get Wood thrown out via that recording. I don’t trust her. JMO

Yes I caught when Lori said (about dancing
in Hawaii) ‘months after the children had been gone’ . Lolo puts herself smack in the middle of knowing & enjoying the plan IMO

Lori really thought it was normal to get over her children's murders after a couple of months, without anyone even knowing they were dead and with her repeatedly trying to cover it up.

 

[indicolite22]

Also what struck me - across so many testimonies from witnesses - was that CV's death as self-defence- but also as an example of Domestic Violence - didn't really count. It wasn't a major transgression

Over the trial & during the interviews with LEO, Zulema & Mel G attach so little value to his death, even after they realised he too was likely killed unlawfully.
Their line which cannot be crossed & crime they cannot imagine is infanticide.
Nobody in LV's circle asked questions, nobody cared whether it was legit self defense. LV had spent years making comments about killing husbands - Joe & Charles - & nobody batted an eyelid at any point)

Wonder if they'd have felt same if it was a case of a wife having been killed ' in self defense' by a husband ?

Even after the children were found, some members of the Cox family (not including Adam) continued to believe that Charles' death was justified. They were told that he was cheating on Lori and was a threat to her life. That said, Lori's uncle mentioned justice for Charles the other day and I believe SS might have changed her opinion as well.

 

[cottonweaver]

re Summer Shiflet hugging the Defense lawyer at the end of the day, this was interesting on the latest STS . Grey Skordas says it could mean one of several things but shouldn't have happened.(That's at 19 mins onwards)

Show has Greg Skordas ( Public defender, ex Prosecutor & lifelong Utah native) and Chris Thomas who was family publicist during Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapping and rescue & has written a book about that 'Unexpected' ( Chris is also of LDS faith and he discusses LDS angles to the crime & how he feels these perpetrators have nonetheless ' defiled' them. Chris also worries that most of the case followers will just assume Lori's extreme beliefs are common to LDS)
Also Greg on the Defense's strategy centring on BRDoubt.

haven't managed to listen to it all yet but there's tons more here.

 

[cottonweaver]

I dont' trust her either, but her jail call is probably the most powerful evidence that will sink Lori's ship, even if SS still secretly hopes that only Chad will get blamed. SS also stated in the recording that she was glad that Alex was dead if he was involved in children's deaths. After Alex's death SS made a video compilation about Alex's life.

Yes I had a listen to that recording after @BeachSky reminded me.
Summer, in that interview with Rob Wood, certainly believed that Lori had been led astray by Chad, that Chad was the prime instigator. ( This is after the emotional jail call we heard yesterday. My guess is that since that call, there's been a lot of other calls which the State could not use because Summer blames Chad and is more forgiving of Lori)

 

[Nikynoo]

I think Summer won't be recalled, because she already was asked questions as a defense witness yesterday (with reduced ability of prosecution's objection), according to one of the Twitter reporters from court.

ETA: It was Lori Hellis

..both the defense and the state had Summer on their witness list. The state called her, but to avoid her having to come back, the judge permitted the defense to ask questions on direct. That was why there was no objection to questions that exceeded the scope of the state's cross-examination.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650961511408627712

Thank you for explaining.