ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

[indicolite22]

Yes I had a listen to that recording after @BeachSky reminded me.
Summer, in that interview with Rob Wood, certainly believed that Lori had been led astray by Chad, that Chad was the prime instigator. ( This is after the emotional jail call we heard yesterday. My guess is that since that call, there's been a lot of other calls which the State could not use because Summer blames Chad and is more forgiving of Lori)

On the jail call Summer even admits to supporting Lori in her spiritual journey with Chad in the past. Summer believed that Lori was special. I was surprised by the intensity of Summer's reaction. She behaved like a mother who lost a child would, while Lori's indifference was psychopatic. It looks like Summer genuinely cared for the children and was not just angry for being humiliated for publicly supporting Lori, while the latter was lying to her.

 

[Ruminations]

Didn't she say this to SS during the phone call we heard today? I wonder when Lori was supposed to be on the floor crying for her children?

It's hard to believe she was "on the floor."

I also love the "months later!" reply to dancing on the beach.

First, the wedding was less than 2 calendar months after Tylee and JJ were murdered. "Weeks" would have been more accurate.

Second, it answers Summers question indirectly. Yes, Lori did know the children were dead by the time she married Chad.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

I don’t trust her. JMO

RSBM

I'm not sure I trust anyone about anything.

And, I continue with my overwhelming feelings of things being "off" in this trial.

 

[Ruminations]

I think Summer won't be recalled, because she already was asked questions as a defense witness yesterday (with reduced ability of prosecution's objection), according to one of the Twitter reporters from court.

ETA: It was Lori Hellis

..both the defense and the state had Summer on their witness list. The state called her, but to avoid her having to come back, the judge permitted the defense to ask questions on direct. That was why there was no objection to questions that exceeded the scope of the state's cross-examination.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650961511408627712

I thought the witness list was sealed?

Do we know defenses intended witnesses?

It does seem likely that defense had in mind to have Summer as a penalty phase witness. She could have testified to Chad's influence. She already did, though, because it was brought up by the prosecution and was fair game for cross.

MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

On the jail call Summer even admits to supporting Lori in her spiritual journey with Chad in the past. Summer believed that Lori was special. I was surprised by the intensity of Summer's reaction. She behaved like a mother who lost a child would, while Lori's indifference was psychopatic. It looks like Summer genuinely cared for the children and was not just angry for being humiliated for publicly supporting Lori, while the latter was lying to her.

Yes that was interesting. Janis also attended that PAP & Summer's husband.
It was a very powerful jail call - her repulsion at the destruction & dumping of the children's bodies was visceral. Any sibling would surely react in that way to this news.
As you say, that contrast between the pair's emotions will be damning, for that jury.
IDK how bonded Summer was with JJ, so I can't speak to that. ( Haven't heard enough of her comments on JJ)

btw, an aside:
re Summer last words ' you'd better come up with an explanation publicly' before the call is cut

See STS show I just linked to- at 1hr 08 - the panellists are saying that Summer was trying to also give Lori ' an out', an opportunity to blame it all on Chad. ( Am just listening to it & Attorney Greg Skordas said he was baffled by Deefnse's follow-up questions to Summer)

 

[Gardenista]

SS recorded prosecutor Wood.
Means & Prior tried to get Wood thrown out via that recording. I don’t trust her. JMO

Yes I caught when Lori said (about dancing
in Hawaii) ‘months after the children had been gone’ . Lolo puts herself smack in the middle of knowing & enjoying the plan IMO

SS's attorney recorded Rob Wood

 

[fred&edna]

Yes that was interesting. Janis also attended that PAP & Summer's husband.
It was a very powerful jail call - her repulsion at the destruction & dumping of the children's bodies was visceral. Any sibling would surely react in that way to this news.
As you say, that contrast between the pair's emotions will be damning, for that jury.
IDK how bonded Summer was with JJ, so I can't speak to that. ( Haven't heard enough of her comments on JJ)

btw, an aside:
re Summer last words ' you'd better come up with an explanation publicly' before the call is cut

See STS show I just linked to- at 1hr 08 - the panellists are saying that Summer was trying to also give Lori ' an out', an opportunity to blame it all on Chad. ( Am just listening to it & Attorney Greg Skordas said he was baffled by Deefnse's follow-up questions to Summer)

Yes, the "blame it on CD" during the call, SS says

“... please consider that Chad has lied and been deceived, and you have been deceived, and this is not what you think it is..."

 

[Gardenista]

The limited questions for SS may have been due to some sort of a sanction to the prosecution. Remember, due to the recorded phone call, the prosecution was not even allowed to call her as a witness without prior approval from the court.

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes, the "blame it on CD" during the call, SS says

“... please consider that Chad has lied and been deceived, and you have been deceived, and this is not what you think it is..."

but it does not matter does it? Lori knew it was wrong and carried on regardless. I would be interested to hear what mental illness Lori is supposed to have.

 

[fred&edna]

but it does not matter does it? Lori knew it was wrong and carried on regardless. I would be interested to hear what mental illness Lori is supposed to have.

I agree... it doesn't matter.

 

[SteveS]

The problem with this defence is as follows

Whoops whereas Tylee gone? Well I certainly won't report her missing or ask anyone where she is! At least I still have one kid left. Let's just cover up her disappearance ... Whoops where's JJ gone?

Even if you can believe the idea that Alex killed Tylee 'without permission', it is clear Lori joined the conspiracy from that point forward.

We have seen the repeated assertion itself, but have we seen any PROOF for Tylee being killed on one exact date? And for JJ?

 

[Chelly]

Amazing how Lori juggled all those burner phones! For me, it would be a full-time job.

 

[mrjitty]

We have seen the repeated assertion itself, but have we seen any PROOF for Tylee being killed on one exact date? And for JJ?

Well we know she was missing before JJ and then she turned up burnt and dismembered in Chads yard so there's that

 

[indicolite22]

SS's attorney recorded Rob Wood

He is also ZP's current attorney and was with her in court.
In the past he represented MBP against BB, who successfuly sued him for defamation and was awarded $12m.

 

[Tortoise]

Proof of Tylee's death on 9th Sep

8th Sep

1. Wood asks Colby about the night of Sept. 8, 2019. Colby asked Tylee for money, and Tylee responded that she was no longer in control of her money, but her mom was handling it. Colby says he spoke with Lori that day. He heard Tylee over the phone, and Lori said they were at the Yellowstone National Park gift store.
2. Tylee's never seen alive after 8th Sep
3. Chad looks up the wind direction and speed for 9th Sep

9th Sep

4. 12:44am Alex's phone is at his own apartment.
5. 2:42am to 3:37am (55 minutes) Alex's phone is at Lori's apartment before returning to his own apartment until 8.59am.
6. 9.21am to 11.39am - Alex's phone is at Chad's place near the firepit for over 2 hours. Chad's phone is also there, and he's texting Lori.
7. 5 mins after Alex leaves Chad's, Chad texts Tammy saying he'd had a fire to burn the tree limbs, he'd killed a raccoon and it was now in the pet cemetery.
8. A week later Lori is hiring a babysitter for JJ because no Tylee.

 

[Trebor5591]

but it does not matter does it? Lori knew it was wrong and carried on regardless. I would be interested to hear what mental illness Lori is supposed to have.

IMO, she is a good candidate for antisocial personality disorder and also narcissistic personality disorder, IMO

 

[indicolite22]

We have seen the repeated assertion itself, but have we seen any PROOF for Tylee being killed on one exact date? And for JJ?

Absence of proof of life after Sept 8, Alex's phone's movements that night and next morning, Chad's raccoon text after Alex left. There's also a satellite photo of her grave taken a couple of hours later (disturbed patch of soil at the pet cemetery), which has not been presented (yet).

 

[SteveS]

Well we know she was missing before JJ and then she turned up burnt and dismembered in Chads yard so there's that

Indeed she was found very dead in CD's yard. We know she was killed before that.

 

[wnk]

SPEAKERS AT THE TRIAL


LINDSEY BLAKE: STATE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The defendant used money, power, and sex to get what she wanted. It didn't matter what it was."

JAMES ARCHIBALD: DEFENSE ATTNY (summary 1, audio Apr10)
Opening statements - "The evidence will show Lori was a kind and loving mother."


1- KAY WOODCOCK: STATE WITNESS, grandmother of JJ (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr10)
CV's life insurance (Feb 2019), JJ's disappearance (Aug 2019), wedding items on CV's Amazon account (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that KW asked LVD to raise JJ

2- BRANDON BOUDREAUX: STATE WITNESS, ex-husb of LVD’s niece (summary 1, audio Apr10)
LE's initial involvement; attempted shooting from Jeep (Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: questions why MP thought BB was gay, questions BB’s observations of shooting

3 - RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, audio Apr11, Apr12)
Jeep surveillance, welfare check & search warrants (Nov 2019), discovery of JJ & TR bodies (Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: questions whose weapons were in garage, establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

4 - JARED WILLMORE: STATE WITNESS, Madison Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
CD & LVD prison phone call as bodies were discovered (Jun 2020)


--CD & LVD's AFFAIR (OCT 2018-OCT 2019)--

5 - JOE POWELL: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr12)
surveillance on CD & LVD (Nov 2019), exhumation of TD's body (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that LVD was in HI when TD died (19 Oct 2019)

6 - MELANIE GIBB: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, 2, 3, 4, audio Apr13) OBJ
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; CD & LVD's phone call with MG (Dec 2019), MG & DW's visit to LVD's on last day JJ was seen (22 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children

7 - NATHAN DUNCAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr13, Apr14)
shooting of CV (Jul 2019), CD's call to mortuary (Jul 2019), CD's blessing to AC (Jun 2019), "CV"'s email to CD & CV's emails to TD (Jun 2019), texts from CV to LVD (Jul 2019), texts between CD & LVD about CV's insurance (Jul 2019), AC's "2manykids" text to LVD (Sep 2019)

8 - ZULEMA PASTENES: STATE WITNESS, wife of AC (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr14, Apr18)
CD & LVD's initial meeting (Oct 2018), CD & LVD's shared beliefs & affair; "Idiot can't do anything right by himself" on night TD was shot at (Oct 2019), "I think I'm being their fall guy" (Dec 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

9 - COLBY RYAN: STATE WITNESS, son of LVD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18)
financial issues; prison phone call between CR & LVD (Jul? 2020)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs, emphasizes all LVD did for her children


---CV's DEATH (JUL 2019)---

10 - MIKE SAARI: STATE WITNESS, Social Security Administration (summary 1, audio Apr18)
social security payments

11 - CHUCK KUNSAITIS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr18, Apr19)
bank statements, prescriptions, flights

12 - MIKE DOUGLASS: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr19)
timelines of financials

13 - SCOTT COWDEN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler FD paramedic (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
AC did not provide CPR to CV after shooting (11 Jul 2019)

14 - AIREL WERTHER: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
following up with LVD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC called 911, establishes that JJ & TR were both with LVD day of shooting

15 - SANDRA YNCLAN: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD homicide (summary 1, audio Apr19) OBJ
interviewed LVD & TD after CV's death (11 Jul 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that AC was not arrested after CV’s death

16 - APRIL RAYMOND: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD (summary 1, audio Apr19)
*exclusionary issue - listened to Jason Lum’s interview with a cousin of LVD
LVD & TR's stay in HI, LVD was "done with JJ" (Feb 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs

17 - NATHAN MOFFATT: STATE WITNESS, Chandler PD (summary 1, audio Apr20) OBJ
CV’s death & inconsistencies in interviews (11 Jul 2019)


---MOVE TO REXBURG (SEP 2019)---

18 - SYDNEY WOODBURY SCHENK: STATE WITNESS, JJ’s babysitter (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Babysitting JJ (18-19 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought she would be babysitting JJ long-term

19 - JOSH WILSON: STATE WITNESS, Kennedy Elementary Principal (summary 1, audio Apr20)
JJ’s school attendance in Rexburg (3-20 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: establishes that witness thought JJ would be attending school there long-term

20 - WYNN HILL: STATE WITNESS, BYU-I Dean (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TR never applied or enrolled at BYU-I


---JJ & TYLEE'S DEATHS (SEP 2019)---

21 - DAVID WARWICK: STATE WITNESS, friend of LVD & husband of MG (summary 1, audio Apr20)
*exclusionary issue - listened to 45m of wife MG’s testimony OBJ
Introduced to LVD by MG in AZ (Aug 2019), visit to LVD’s in Rexburg (20-23 Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about religious beliefs/visions

22 - BRUCE MATTINGLY: STATE WITNESS, Fremont Co Sheriff (summary 1, audio Apr20)
Seized electronic evidence from Daybell home (Jan 2020)

23 - BENJAMIN DEAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI analyst (summary 1, audio Apr20)
TD’s cell phone data, including raccoon text (9 Sep 2019)

24 - DAVE STUBBS: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr20, audio Apr24)
Travel records, email, Fitbit, prescription, cell phones, insurance records; search for TR’s Jeep & welfare check (Nov 2019); wedding photos (Nov 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about forensic training, reiterates that only AC was at both locations on key dates

25 - NICOLE HEIDEMAN: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, audio Apr24)
CD & LVD Google searches, temple visit dates (Nov 2018-Oct 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about search results

26 - NICK BALLANCE: STATE WITNESS, FBI (summary 1, 2, 3, audio Apr24, Apr25)
Cell phone data location ‘pings’ (Sep 2019)
X-EXAM: asks about FBI training, mapping cell areas

27 - SUMMER SHIFLET: STATE & DEFENSE WITNESS, LVD’s sister, representing TR (summary 1, audio Apr25)
STATE: LVD told her she knew where kids were and that they were safe (Feb 2020), video visit (Jun 2020)
DEFENSE: LVD’s childhood & family, LVD’s relationship with TR, LVD’s religious beliefs

28 - RICK SCHMITT: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg PD (summary 1, 2, audio Apr25)
Yellowstone trip (8 Sep 2019), storage unit footage (Oct 2019), discovery of bodies (9 Jun 2020)
X-EXAM: asks how they know “C.Quint” at shooting club was AC

29 - STEVE DANIELS: STATE WITNESS, FBI forensics (summary 1, audio Apr25)
Excavation of TR & JJ’s remains (9 Jun 2020)

 

[fred&edna]

but it does not matter does it? Lori knew it was wrong and carried on regardless. I would be interested to hear what mental illness Lori is supposed to have.

I wonder if the reported mental illness diagnosis was made by the same individual who gave LVD "homework" that involved calling the LDS legal department?