ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

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What a phone call.

@ 2:10 mark - Am I hearing this right?!?

Lori: (cool, calm, collected, and calculating) And you think I let that happen?
Summer: (emotionally distraught) Yes! I do!
Lori: (dismissively) That's nice.

The same exact response as when Nate Eaton cornered her in Hawaii and informed her that people were praying for her children. "That's great."

I'm speechless.

Edited to add the Nate Eaton video, @ 1:10 mark:

 
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Tylee looks very beautiful in this pic.

Edited to add: I hadn't realized the image came from an article with many images- and had the headline "Horrific images..." lol. I'm referring to a girlish pic of a Tylee without makeup and possibly the necklace discussed at trial today. She really looked natural- not like a girl in a family that was so obsessed with the surface appearance.
 
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It gives the lie that Summer would have been willing to take care of Tylee and JJ if Lori didn't want them anymore. She didn't do a whole lot to investigate where they were....
I think the interview with Megan helps explain that.

It was not a family that allowed questions or investigations.

I wish Summer investigated sooner. I bet Summer wishes the same.

So much sadness.

MOO
 
Definitely one to bookmark in your ' to watch' folders.
I don't know where to begin - so much to unpack ( Lots of disturbing stuff about Barry, Janis, Alex, the death of Stacy, the family culture, Lori's ambition, her precocious sexualised behaviour -compared to most LDS girls that era?- & her interest in death pre Chad)

Thanks for posting this link. Hope other members will get a chance to listen & then we can discuss some of it.
Around 1:02:00 mark Lori's cousin speaks about how Alex Cox at age 17 had a serious car accident that in her opinion likely left him with a traumatic brain injury. Interesting, IMO
 
I see tons of incriminating evidence against Alex and Chad. I am not swayed much by Lori texting her boyfriend/husband and her brother. I think it is possible that Alex and Chad acted alone to help her out and told her the kids were safe. She may have only learned the truth sometime in January around the time she was arrested. Even the detective testified that there was nothing incriminating in all of her texts that implicates her in killing her kids. I am also not swayed by her not reacting the way we expect a normal person to react. Lying to police after the fact is also not very convincing. It may be a crime but if she truly believed they were safe then it does not really bother me.

I don't actually believe that she was not involved. I'm just saying that if I were a juror I would be ready to convict both Chad and Alex for murder and conspiracy based on the evidence presented so far but I think there is still plenty of reasonable doubt about Lori.

Part of the reason I feel this way is based on the same kind of logic you used. You say that her not reacting and grieving the way society expects is evidence of guilt. I would argue that a woman killing her own kids is (thankfully) extremely rare so I need strong evidence to believe the normal societal norms were violated.

Show me phone pings that place her at the scene of a burial at the right time or a text saying "now's the time" on the day of a murder. Show me something other than she texted her boyfriend 3 times on the day of the burial. I am surprised the defense did not ask the detecting to list how many times she and Chad and Alex texted every day over a, say 3 month period. She is not smart enough not to have left breadcrumbs if she was involved.
Lucky thats why she is charged with conspiracy.
She didn't have to be there.

It is a mute point how much she physically participated.
 
I see tons of incriminating evidence against Alex and Chad. I am not swayed much by Lori texting her boyfriend/husband and her brother. I think it is possible that Alex and Chad acted alone to help her out and told her the kids were safe. She may have only learned the truth sometime in January around the time she was arrested. Even the detective testified that there was nothing incriminating in all of her texts that implicates her in killing her kids. I am also not swayed by her not reacting the way we expect a normal person to react. Lying to police after the fact is also not very convincing. It may be a crime but if she truly believed they were safe then it does not really bother me.

I don't actually believe that she was not involved. I'm just saying that if I were a juror I would be ready to convict both Chad and Alex for murder and conspiracy based on the evidence presented so far but I think there is still plenty of reasonable doubt about Lori.

Part of the reason I feel this way is based on the same kind of logic you used. You say that her not reacting and grieving the way society expects is evidence of guilt. I would argue that a woman killing her own kids is (thankfully) extremely rare so I need strong evidence to believe the normal societal norms were violated.

Show me phone pings that place her at the scene of a burial at the right time or a text saying "now's the time" on the day of a murder. Show me something other than she texted her boyfriend 3 times on the day of the burial. I am surprised the defense did not ask the detecting to list how many times she and Chad and Alex texted every day over a, say 3 month period. She is not smart enough not to have left breadcrumbs if she was involved.

Nice to see you back
 
Tylee ~
So this beautiful child that she grew & carried in her body is reduced to the horror law enforcement has to describe & show.The only’get back’IMO is this monster has to sit in the same room with all the evidence of her heinous doing.
 
Lucky thats why she is charged with conspiracy.
She didn't have to be there.

It is a moot point how much she physically participated.

Since there is no audio or video that they are plotting a murder, then if they don't prove her participation in the actual killing, they MUST show her participation somewhere else in actions that can't possibly be explained any other way. I see plenty of things that can be spun into being that sort of action, but that can also have been done for non-murderous reasons.

I certainly think she did it. But still looking for something that proves she wasn't involved with people who deceived her as to their intent. She talked and texted with people who were close to her? Please, that's no evidence of there being a "conspiracy to commit murder."

Before it happened, did she really know her kids were going to be killed? And with Tammy, CD would talk about Tammy was going to die, after which she would be able to marry CD of course, but there seemed to be a lot of expectation that it would just happen (accompanied by some degree of confusion when it didn't happen as expected), rather than something they were trying to do.
 
Since there is no audio or video that they are plotting a murder, then if they don't prove her participation in the actual killing, they MUST show her participation somewhere else in actions that can't possibly be explained any other way. I see plenty of things that can be spun into being that sort of action, but that can also have been done for non-murderous reasons.

I certainly think she did it. But still looking for something that proves she wasn't involved with people who deceived her as to their intent. She talked and texted with people who were close to her? Please, that's no evidence of there being a "conspiracy to commit murder."

Before it happened, did she really know her kids were going to be killed? And with Tammy, CD would talk about Tammy was going to die, after which she would be able to marry CD of course, but there seemed to be a lot of expectation that it would just happen (accompanied by some degree of confusion when it didn't happen as expected), rather than something they were trying to do.
I've been trying to find out details of Idaho law including case law as it relates to what constitutes a conspiracy. The statute she is charged under (Idaho Code 18-1701) says (BBM):

"If two (2) or more persons combine or conspire to commit any crime or offense prescribed by the laws of the state of Idaho, and one (1) or more of such persons does any act to effect the object of the combination or conspiracy, each shall be punishable upon conviction in the same manner and to the same extent as is provided under the laws of the state of Idaho for the punishment of the crime or offenses that each combined to commit."

"Conspire" usually requires an agreement and the State would have to prove that. I don't know what "combine" means in the law but it probably means working together.

For example, if two people decide to rob a bank and, in the course of them doing so, one of them kills a bank employee, that would not be conspiracy to commit murder because there was no agreement. (The other party could likely be charged under the felony-murder rule.) But since Idaho also includes "combine" I suspect they could be convicted of conspiracy since they acted together.

If they have to prove Lori "combined or conspired" with Chad, I have not seen evidence for that. Hopefully it exists.

I'm also unsure what happens if she conspired with Alex. Since he is dead and therefore unindicted, can she be convicted based on evidence of conspiring with Alex alone. I would think she could be but can't find any information.
 
... with Tammy, CD would talk about Tammy was going to die, after which she would be able to marry CD of course, but there seemed to be a lot of expectation that it would just happen (accompanied by some degree of confusion when it didn't happen as expected), rather than something they were trying to do.
Let's not forget that Chad told that to someone else (I think her name was Julie) before he even knew Lori. I think that is his pickup line. Kind of weird but it appears to have worked on Lori.
 
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, April 25th -

State witness: Rick Schmitt, retired Rexburg Police Detective, now works at BYU-Idaho in Public Safety Dept. / Part 2


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
NEW P.M. THREAD: We are back in court. Boyce is on the stand and jurors are in their seats. Rachel Smith will continue questioning retired Det. Rick Schmitt.

Schmitt says during one visit to the storage facility, Alex Cox took a bunch of totes along with a long rifle case.

On Oct. 22, 2019, Schmitt says Alex took a gun storage case and a tote out of the storage unit and put it in his pickup truck. On Oct. 28, 2019, he took four gun storage cases and put them in his pickup truck. Chad was with Alex on this visit.

In January 2020, Schmitt went to the Unified Sportsman Club to see if Alex had visited. Smith asks to admit an exhibit showing records of when Alex had signed into the club.

Smith shows the sign-in sheet on the courtroom's big screen. Schmitt says Alex signed in under different names: Alex Cox, Alex and C. Quint.

Alex's license plate on his vehicle was C.P.Quint. The first day Alex signed into the club was Oct. 6, 2019. On Oct. 7, C. Quint signed in at 12:20 p.m.

On Oct. 8, C. Quint signed into the club at 11 a.m. On Oct. 12, C. Quint signed in at 3 p.m. On Oct. 13, C. Quint signed in at 1 p.m. On Oct. 15, C. Quint signed in at 8 a.m.

Schmitt says an Alex Cox also signed in on Sept. 3, 2019 but there is no paper record showing that. At the club, people go out and shoot their firearms for target practice, Schmitt says.

As police searched Chad Daybell's house on June 9, 2020, Schmitt was assigned to keep an eye on Chad in case he left the property. "At one point in time when the search dogs were on the scene, Chad got out of his vehicle that was parked in the driveway in front of his house.

They were searching the area where JJ's remains were found and Chad was facing toward that direction." Lt. Ron Ball and Det. Ray Hermosillo then came over to talk with Chad. "At some point in time, Chad went back into his house.

He came out with a backpack and got into his vehicle. He sat there in his vehicle and then drove across the street to his daughter's house. After some time, Chad came out of Emma's house, got in his vehicle and started going south on 1900 East in Fremont County."

Chad was eventually stopped and arrested.

After Chad was arrested, Schmitt and another officer transferred Chad to the Fremont County Jail. They released him and then Schmitt went back to his house.

Schmitt was assigned to help search the firepit and pet cemetery areas. Schmitt says he found teeth, burnt pieces of bone and burnt human flesh.

Schmitt says some of the dirt was pretty hard and it appeared somebody put concrete or cement in the ground. A backhoe was called in and eventually officers found a melted green bucket that contained Tylee's remains. Smith has no further questions for Schmitt.

John Thomas will cross-examine.

Thomas asks Schmitt about the storage unit surveillance videos. Schmitt says he reviewed some of them about a month ago. Thomas asks who runs the sportsman's club and how people check in.

The secretary told Schmitt people check in on your honor - nobody monitors it and there's a box to put your money in.

Thomas tells Schmitt he's just making an assumption that C. Quint is Alex Cox. Schmitt says that's correct. He asks Schmitt if he followed up to ask if anyone saw Alex there. Schmitt says he did not.

Thomas asks where Schmitt was specifically when he found the teeth and burned flesh. Schmitt says it was in the firepit area.

Thomas has no further questions. Smith has no re-direct. Schmitt is released from the witness stand. The next witness is Steve Daniels. Daniels is a special agent with the FBI. Wood is questioning Daniels, who has worked for the FBI for 25 years.



link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
 
The events surrounding Tammy's death are of great interest to me because Chad has put up several claims, and they can't all be true. For example, he has said that his kids were home, a kid was home, it was just him and Tammy. Okay, which one is true?

He has also said that everyone, he and the kids, all agreed that Tammy was in poor health and had been trying to get her to go to the doctor. I really hope his kids learn about this statement and then think "Huh, what?"

I keep getting knocked off tonight while trying to reply to your post and past a partial transcript and/or link to the 48 Hours show that had the Daybell children on it. So forgive me for not including it and just commenting instead. You can watch it on the internet and if you haven’t seen it, I would suggest watching it as it is the only time I know of that the children of CD have spoken about all this.

Of course I don’t know what the Daybell children might be thinking now and I think that show was back in 2021 but there are a couple of things to note…
  • They believed that CD was framed and it is all LV’s fault and that he had nothing to do with the bodies of Tylee & JJ being buried on his property – I believe they used the words that he was “framed” at one point.
  • Garth said that he was home and his CD called out for him and he went into their bedroom and found his mother half on the bed and half on the floor and he picked her up and put her back in the bed and told CD he thought she was dead.
  • Emma said that they knew their mother was sick and that she got short of breath easily and got really tired and went to bed early.


It is my opinion that what they were observing in TD was a direct result of her learning from CV that her husband was having an affair. Yes I think she knew it before CV reached out to her but I think the confirmation of it from him put her in despair and depression and that she likely wasn’t sleeping well. I suffer from insomnia and can tell you that the kind of exhaustion one experiences due to prolonged periods of little or no sleep, can certainly cause you to be fatigued and short of breath. It can also cause personality changes such as the co-worker observed the last day TD worked at the library. Yes, despair and depression can lead to physical illnesses so I get why they might have thought that she had been ill for some time but I really believe that it was her mental anguish that they were observing. I think she went to bed earlier and earlier was more because she was depressed and could only face so many hours in the day even though physically she was also exhausted.



As always…just my opinion on these things.
 
Summary of tweets for Tuesday, April 25th -

State witness: FBI Special Agent Steve Daniels, Evidence Response Team (ERT) / Part 1


Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
The next witness is Steve Daniels. Daniels is a special agent with the FBI. Wood is questioning Daniels, who has worked for the FBI for 25 years.

Daniels works on the FBI Evidence Response Team - the ERT. The group gets 80 hours of training in Quantico, Virginia on how to process crime scenes and execute search warrants. Advanced trainings are offered and Daniels has participated in the human remains recovery course.

The ERT was asked to help come up with a search strategy to execute a search warrant on June 9 and 10, 2020 at Chad Daybell's property. They were looking for human remains and other evidence of crime.

Police arrived at Daybell's property on June 9, 2020. They prepared for about a week and eight ERT members were tasked with a role before they got to the house. For example, one was a photographer and one created a crime-scene login sheet.

Daniels did an initial walk-thru of the scene and priority areas were noted.

Two ERT members were assigned to assess the firepit area. Based on the cell phone data, the team has mapped out areas to look on the property including the pet cemetery.

Another area of interest was the pond. Daniels said they wanted to look at the entire 3-4 acres - sheds, outbuildings - everything needed to be searched.

Daniels says 500-700 photos were taken on Chad Daybell's property the day they served the search warrant.

Daniels says a FARO scanner was used at the scene. This is a high-tech laser scanner. A total station tool was also on the scene. Many of the jurors are taking notes as Daniels speaks.

Daniels says a drone was also used during the search.

Wood asks to admit an exhibit Daniels compiled of photos and evidence. Thomas has some questions for Daniels before the exhibit it admitted.

Thomas has no objection to the exhibit. We are now shown a satellite map image showing the Rexburg/St. Anthony area. Key locations are marked - Lori's apartment, Chad's property, the Salem Church (where police staged), Walmart, BYU-Idaho.

We now see an overhead image of Chad Daybell's property. Daniels points out the firepit, burial sites of the children, outbuildings and other key spots on the property.

A photo of the front of Chad's house is now shown. The next picture is an image from an upper-bedroom window where you can see JJ's burial site. From the same window, another photo shows that you can also see the area where Tylee was buried.

The next photo shows the view from another window inside the house looking out onto the property.

We now see a photo showing some impressions or changes to the ground of the pet cemetery. Daniels says once he noticed the changes, he had a team start processing the area.

A photo of the firepit is on the screen. The next photo shows progress as crews begin to process the firepit area. Dirt is sifted through with rakes and shovels.

Sifters with mesh screens are also brought in to catch any potential evidence piece - "potential bones, jewelry, or anything else that could be significant," Daniels says.

Daniels says bone fragments, organic material and miscellaneous pieces of cloth and fabric were collected from the fire pit. The next image shows the fire pit as it's getting "cleaned up."

Daniels says the smell was "overpowering" and a soil sample was taken from the fire pit for testing later.

Daniels says a necklace chain was found inside the firepit and processed as evidence. A silver charm was also found near the firepit.

The total station tool mapped out sites where the bodies were buried. The information was used to measure distances on the property. Boyce calls for an afternoon recess. Be back in 15-20 minutes.

We are back in session. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.

Daniels shows an image of the pet cemetery. In front of a dog statue were some "disturbed areas" where Daniels thought human remains could be. Handtools were used before a backhoe and tractor were brought in to help dig.

We now see an image of a piece of bone found in the dirt. "With the size of the bone being found...I could also smell an odor I could associate with human remains decomposing so between this bone being found and a second bone being found...

the decision was then made not to use the tractor anymore," Daniels says. Police then switched back to hand tools.

The next image shows some bricks uncovered by the tractor. This ends up being Tylee's gravesite. At the time, police were not aware this was where she was buried but the odor continually got stronger and stronger.

We now see a photo showing "the first pieces of Tylee" that officers uncovered. At this point, they were unsure what they had found but it was a "bigger bone."

On the screen is a photo of the bigger white bone found at the burial site. "At this point, we didn't know if this was animal or human. We were trying to excavate it and get it out of the ground," Daniels says. An anthropologist was on the scene.

The next photo shows pieces of Tylee's remains recovered from the ground at the end of the day on June 9. "At that point, we established a new perimeter around her burial site and came up with a better excavation plan," Daniels says.

The remains were placed on a blue tarp. Summer Shiflet is wiping tears from her eyes as these photos are shown. She is looking down and her eyes are closed. Lori is looking down.

The next photo is a close-up view of the pieces identified as Tylee. "You can see the bigger bones sticking out of the ground," Daniels says. He says her remains were "melted together" in the ground.

The remains were placed in a body bag, given to the coroner and removed from the scene. We now see a photo of what the burial site looked like after the remains were out of the ground.

Crews continued their search on June 10. Blue tarps were placed on the ground and a "sifting operation" was set up to find more possible remains in the ground, Daniels says.

We now see a photo of "a mass of a human - dismembered, melted" and a green bucket with part of a skull. "It took a while for us as investigators to figure out what happened here - what is this," Daniels says.

"We want to show how these remains were buried so we can show the story of what happened here," Daniels says. Lori continues to look down while taking notes on a yellow pad.

The next photo is Tylee's skull next to a melted bucket.

Daniels says the team tried to lift the remains out of the ground but they all fell apart. They were able to collect them and put them in a body bag. The anthropologist and coroner separated the remains so an inventory could be done on what parts they had.

"How many pieces are we still looking for or do we think we have everything we need to take?" Daniels says.

Now we see the body pieces placed on the coroner's body bag. Daniels was unsure if this was one person or two so he asked for an inventory on the parts.

Daniels says after all the human remains were collected, a backhoe dug deeper and wider into the burial sites. "This was especially important on JJ's burial. His was the first burial we found and we wanted to make sure Tylee's remains weren't in the same area."

Wood asks Daniels if police searched the shed and barn on Chad's property. Daniels says yes. We now see a photo of the garage door open on the shed. Next image is the interior of the shed.

"Knowing that we are dealing with a burial, one of the things we are interested in is tools," Daniels says. There were some tools hanging or leaning on the wall in the shed.

We now see an image of a pick-ax and some shovels that were seized as evidence. They are leaning aginst the wall next to a green bucket and two white buckets. We see a close up photo of the pick-ax and there is some material on the blade portion.

A close up image of two shovels shows "how dirty they were - could potentially be ash or other things on the shovel," Daniels says.

Other items, including bush clippers, some saws and an ax, were seized from the garage. We see a photo of these items.

Some bricks found on the side of the shed were also seized. The bricks were similar to those found at Tylee's burial site.

We are now being shown photos of the pond area where JJ was found. There is taller grass around the burial site and Daniels observed a raised berm with less grass and vegetation than the surrounding area.

Daniels is describing how police went layer by layer to remove the ground near the pond. "At this point we honestly didn't know if this was a burial or not," Daniels says.

We now see a photo showing three big rocks that were found once officers removed some of the soil. "This is screaming to me as a team leader that something is odd. Something shouldn't be here," Daniels says. Boyce calls for a brief sidebar.

I have not seen Lori look up for the past hour. She continues to write in a yellow notepad with her back toward the gallery.

Boyce says we will conclude with testimony for today and continue tomorrow. I'll break everything down tonight on 'Courtroom Insider' at 7:30 p.m. MT. Join me on my Facebook page or the East Idaho News YouTube channel.

It was mentioned in court today that Alex's license plate was "C Quint." He apparently signed into the shooting range using this name. Captain Quint is a character from Jaws.

I've learned it was one of Alex's favorite movies and he often did an impersonation of Cpt. I'm told Alex knew every line of the movie by heart.

Sketches from court today. FBI agent Steve Daniels, Lori Vallow Daybell, Rexburg Det. Rick Schmitt and FBI analyst Nick Ballance

Daniels.jpg Lori.jpgRick.jpg Nick.jpg






link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
 
Wednesday, April 26th:
*Trial continues (Day 11) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.

Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-9 (4/10-4/24/23) reference post #253 here:
ttps://www.websleuths.com/forums/th...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-13

4/25/23 Tuesday, Trial Day 10: State witness: FBI Special Agent Nick Ballance, part of FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team back on stand.
For more info see posts #319 [pg 16] & 344 here:
ttps://www.websleuths.com/forums/th...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-18
State witness: Summer Shiflet, Loris’s sister.
For more info see posts #373 here:
ttps://www.websleuths.com/forums/th...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-19
State witness: Rick Schmitt, retired Rexburg Police Detective, now works at BYU-Idaho in Public Safety Dept.
For more info see posts #378 [pg 20] & 515 here:
ttps://www.websleuths.com/forums/th...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-26
State witness: FBI Special Agent Steve Daniels, Evidence Response Team (ERT) (will continues tomorrow).
For more info see posts #517 here:
ttps://www.websleuths.com/forums/th...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-26
Trial continues on Wednesday, 4/26/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.

*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
 
I edited my post and added the link to the video where Janis states that she spoke to JJ. She said that JJ "knew who they were" which seemed strange. Wouldn't any grandchild recognize their grandparents who have a relationship with them?

Thanks. Have gone back to read your edit & that new link. *
Very weird. As if JJ would use a phrase like that

from ur link - to save people having to open it:
"I have to see my family slaughtered on the news every day," her sister, Summer Shiflet, said. "This mob mentality of calling for… Lori to just be hung in a public square, basically is what it feels like."
....
According to investigators, 7-year-old JJ vanished without a trace on September 23 — but Cox claims she briefly spoke with him on October 1.
"I talked to him," she said. "He just takes the phone, you know, and he knows — you know, he knows who we are."
Rexburg police declined to comment on Cox's claim
that she spoke with JJ after his apparent disappearance. Cox provided CBS News with a phone bill she says shows the alleged call
.'

They seem very fond of this ' You know who I am ' phrase. (Summer here & LV in the Colby call)
In hindsight now it seems like some weird metaphor for this family but I suppose that in practice this was probably a standard reply during an argument to any accusation or misdeed, large or small.
Imagine using that reply in your own life? it would be very gaslighty.

( Anyway, back to original point - I don't think what Summer says can be trusted, period. JJ was dead & couldn't take the phone to speak to her but she ventured that on national TV. BTW I don't think Summer knew that JJ was already dead but she took a risk there which could have frustrated a police search to save a living child, by claiming she'd spoken to him Oct 1st. Misguided loyalty to her sister Lori, who is obviously the dominant personality. )


* Lori Vallow's mother and sister speak out for the first time
 
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It gives the lie that Summer would have been willing to take care of Tylee and JJ if Lori didn't want them anymore. She didn't do a whole lot to investigate where they were....
SS went on TV in May 2020 (a month before the bodies were found) and stated that she trusted Lori about hiding JJ from KW who was harassing her. She didn't have a theory about Tylee.
 
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