GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #75

[mickey2942]

Changing the topic, I've been interested in what, specifically, led the Woodcocks to ask for a welfare check on JJ.

In theory, all that the Woodcocks knew was that Lori was estranged from them. This is sadly very common, but I've never heard of it leading to a welfare check. Firstly, because who's heard of such a thing, and secondly, because that would pretty much guarantee the parent will be so outraged about it, they will never soften and let you see your grandchild ever again.

I believe that somehow the Woodcocks learned about Lori being without JJ. Her being in Hawaii or Missouri with Melanie P...or her being introduced as childless amongst Chad's friends. Or, didn't someone have a private detective watching her townhouse in Rexburgh?

Has this come up before? Anyone else see this as more than a shot in the dark, and more like someone in LE with suspicions, giving the Woodcocks advice on how to set in motion the trap that would finally result in this verdict?

JMO

I think LEO took the "welfare" check very seriously when they followed up on the death of Charles Vallow in Arizona. That probably piqued their interest, to follow through, and verify that JJ was safe.

Sadly, it was too late.

 

[indicolite22]

Alex did leave his own condo to go to Lori's at 3:43 a.m., the morning Tylee most likely died. He was there for almost an hour before returning to his own place. The witnesses testified that this was the ONLY time Alex ever visited Lori in the wee hours of the morning. Hidden True Crime interviewed a neighbor who lived in a condo next to Lori. The neighbor said that Lori asked the next day if her Karaoke music had been TOO LOUD????!

I think Alex and Chad did what they did the next morning.

My own opinion.

So who do you think murdered Tylee? I heard the karaoke story before, but the neighbor couldn't remember which day it happened. It was told to an ex-police youtuber who visited the apartments.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I think LEO took the "welfare" check very seriously when they followed up on the death of Charles Vallow in Arizona. That probably piqued their interest, to follow through, and verify that JJ was safe.

Sadly, it was too late.

Right, by that time AZ had been in touch with Idaho about the BB attempt in September (or October?) as well, so things were looking might fishy with these folks by November.

 

[Jolynna]

So who do you think murdered Tylee? I heard the karaoke story before, but the neighbor couldn't remember which day it happened. It was told to an ex-police youtuber who visited the apartments.

I think Alex, possibly with Lori's help, murdered Tylee.

 

[mickey2942]

So who do you think murdered Tylee? I heard the karaoke story before, but the neighbor couldn't remember which day it happened. It was told to an ex-police youtuber who visited the apartments.

We will probably never know who killed her, or how she died. I do know that her remains were treated with complete inhumanity and it is beyond horrific. There is something wrong with all of those folks who were involved. Complete disregard for human life. Psychopathy is just the beginning. It reminded me of the horrors at the John Wayne Gacy house, except he didn't desecrate his victims bodies the way Tylee's was obliterated. And JWG didn't kill a 7 year year old child. That is really something, to be more twisted than JWG!!!!

 

[indicolite22]

We will probably never know who killed her, or how she died. I do know that her remains were treated with complete inhumanity and it is beyond horrific. There is something wrong with all of those folks who were involved. Complete disregard for human life. Psychopathy is just the beginning. It reminded me of the horrors at the John Wayne Gacy house, except he didn't desecrate his victims bodies the way Tylee's was obliterated. And JWG didn't kill a 7 year year old child. That is really something, to be more twisted than JWG!!!!

At least one of them believed that Tylee had been "switched". The children were no longer themselves, they were zombies. Dehumanizing the victims opened the door for murder.

 

[887sMtreme]

I think Lori's apartment had the garage attached to the unit.

Chad invented a raccoon so he could explain the freshly dug patch of dirt in the pet cemetery. The raccoon didn't just drop dead.

Pretty big patch of dirt for a raccoon, though.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

So who do you think murdered Tylee? I heard the karaoke story before, but the neighbor couldn't remember which day it happened. It was told to an ex-police youtuber who visited the apartments.

I believe Lori killed Tylee, then called Alex and told him she died when the zombie left her body (or however that worked in their fake belief system. I don't think Lori or Chad believed any of the stuff they spouted, but Alex did.)

I lean toward asphyxiation. But choking or smothering was probably physically harder than Lori expected it to be, so she changed tactics with JJ. She likely had some practical advice for Chad on what to do when Tammy's time came.

It's all just so horrific.

 

[Ruminations]

Anything is possible but why would CD made a big deal about shooting a raccoon unless he was covering up gunshot noise that could possibly be heard by a neighbor? CD could have just as easily told TD that he was burning brush, minus the raccoon detail. Tylee could have been drugged but she could have also been lured there by AC with some b.s. story like he needs a hand with something.

Living in an apartment complex, dragging out a full sized adult body into a vehicle could have easily been noticed although they could have done it through the garage depending on the layout of the unit.

We'll never know unless more detailed evidence regarding this is brought up at CD's trial.

The gunshot is possible; the disturbed earth is certain.

Chad needed the grave detail. It's possible someone fired a gun that day, but it is also possible he made up firing the gun to explain the grave.

MOO

 

[k-mac]

I don't think I could every use the word "lovely" in the same sentence as Darlie Routier, but that's JMO.
As for LVD, I agree she's not aging well but that's the least of her problems!

I was feeling generous!

 

[k-mac]

dbm
A video answered the question.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I don't think that is correct - Janis has not visited but TALKS TO LVD once a week. At least, according to the interview I heard several times.

I believe if her mother were dressing her she would have looked more fashionable! That was supposedly a big deal in their family (appearances).

I believe it is more likely that those clothes Lori wore came from the attorneys - it has been said that attorneys keep clothes closets for their incarcerated clients. Several reporters stated the clothing looked to big for her.

I was wrong and you are right, she speaks to her via phone calls once a week.

 

[aafromaa]

Changing the topic, I've been interested in what, specifically, led the Woodcocks to ask for a welfare check on JJ.

IIRC, 8/10/19 was the last time Larry & Kay spoke with JJ. It was a very brief FaceTime call. LVD moved with the kids to Rexburg in early Sept & Larry & Kay had no idea where they were. But on or about 11/26/19 Kay saw the transaction for a purchase on CV’s credit card - I think this was the purchase of the wedding rings. There was a Rexburg address for the shipping so for the first time in months she had a location for LVD and she either contacted the Rexburg PD or she reached out again to AZ LE and they contacted the Rexburg PD to do a welfare check because she had not been able to reach her grandson in over 3 months. I do not think that Kay actually suspected anything had happened to him - that he was missing or had been murdered - she just wanted someone to tell her they saw him and he was okay - because she thought LVD was just being a witch and keeping JJ from her & Larry.

 

[aafromaa]

Alex did leave his own condo to go to Lori's at 3:43 a.m., the morning Tylee most likely died. He was there for almost an hour before returning to his own place. The witnesses testified that this was the ONLY time Alex ever visited Lori in the wee hours of the morning. Hidden True Crime interviewed a neighbor who lived in a condo next to Lori. The neighbor said that Lori asked the next day if her Karaoke music had been TOO LOUD????!

I think Alex and Chad did what they did the next morning.

My own opinion.

My timeline could be incorrect but I have that AC went to LVD’s apt from 2:42am to 8:49am and then leaving his own apt at 9am and then at CD’s property from 9:15am to 11:45ish when he’s headed back to Rexburg & stops at Del Taco. It is one of the reasons I suspect that LVD may have killed Tylee herself and then called AC to come help deal with the body. I did originally think AC came & got her in the middle of the night and took her back to his apt but I’m pretty sure she died in LVD’s apt and perhaps was even dismembered there during the 7 hours AC was in the apt that morning - or at least partially done there - I think perhaps more destruction and additional burning of the body was done in the months after that when neighbors saw additional bonfires. It is almost a certainty that AC & CD did not do all the dismembering and burning in the 2 1/2 hours AC was at CD’s that morning.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This link is from a few years back... an oldie but a goodie IMO. Just clearing out some files and seen it.

A string of family deaths surround tragedy of Lori Vallow’s children

The investigation revealed a much darker tale beyond the missing kids.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Kemug]

Since Alex visited Lori's apartment in the middle of the night on the night Tylee was killed, IMO it's likely that Tylee was asleep when she was attacked and was asphyxiated by Alex with Lori's help. It had to be relatively quick not to wake up JJ (unless he slept in Alex's apartment that night, which Tylee would find weird) or alert Lori's neighbors. It's possible that both children were drugged prior to being murdered. The perps likely avoided having to clean up a bloody scene. IMO all three victims died in a similar way.

But do we know for certain that Tylee even got back to Lori's apartment that night?

 

[Kemug]

I think Alex, possibly with Lori's help, murdered Tylee.

Yes, at least until he married Zulema, Alex being on his own was free to come and go as he pleased, whether to murder, abduct, bury or whatever. Unlike Chad who was living with family who would probably notice absences at odd hours (oh, the poor man!)

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This shows a tour of one of the townhouses where LV lived (not #175 though) To my understanding the 3 bedroom ones are all laid out with the same floor plan including attached garages. Towards the end you can see inside the garage. Creepy to see, and imagine the horror that likely occured behind those walls.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=261341752137710

 

[Cedars]

IIRC, 8/10/19 was the last time Larry & Kay spoke with JJ. It was a very brief FaceTime call. LVD moved with the kids to Rexburg in early Sept & Larry & Kay had no idea where they were. But on or about 11/26/19 Kay saw the transaction for a purchase on CV’s credit card - I think this was the purchase of the wedding rings. There was a Rexburg address for the shipping so for the first time in months she had a location for LVD and she either contacted the Rexburg PD or she reached out again to AZ LE and they contacted the Rexburg PD to do a welfare check because she had not been able to reach her grandson in over 3 months. I do not think that Kay actually suspected anything had happened to him - that he was missing or had been murdered - she just wanted someone to tell her they saw him and he was okay - because she thought LVD was just being a witch and keeping JJ from her & Larry.

Yes, Kay testified in court about finding the Rexburgh address/wedding plans that way, but she didn't say she immediately called police. My theory is the prosecution wanted to gloss over the real details, as perhaps just unnecessarily confusing for the jury.

Since asking the question, I was given a link and looked at some other sites and the timelines thread.

After Oct. 2 shooting, BB contacted Kay, they exchanged what they each knew/believed, and kept in touch. (Kay Woodcock interview linked upthread).

Oct. 31, Private detective Rich Robertson, hired by BB to watch Melani P/find Alex, followed them when she moved to the townhouse complex in Rexburgh.

He later said "It was during that period that we realized we were seeing all the adults—Lori Vallow, Alex Cox, Melani Boudreaux—but we weren't seeing the kids. We weren't seeing JJ or Tylee," Robertson said.

A Timeline on the Disappearance and Deaths of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan and Arrests of Chad and Lori Daybell

Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell are set to go on trial in 2021 on charges related to the children's disappearance and deaths.

www.insideedition.com

(I'm not convinced Tylee was originally considered missing, though).

BB knew all about JJ, of course, aside from what he knew from Kay, so I think he asked the PI to report on how JJ was doing.

Then, I think BB raised the alarm with Gilbert police, because a few weeks later, Nov 18, Gilbert PD came out to Rexburgh, 1stly to check the Jeep's data system, but also to check on JJ. (Detective Hermosa testimony Day 7)

From the WS Timeline
Abt 19 Nov 2019 – About a week before conducting a welfare check on JJ and Tylee, a police officer came to SB’s door asking questions about Lori and her children. SB is the neighbor who had helped Lori move into her townhome with the children in Sept (Fox 13 Salt Lake City).

Then, when Gilbert police couldn't find JJ through an informal search, they got Kay to request a formal welfare check through Rexburgh police (who appear to have also been briefed that Chad and Lori were married). (Day 7 testimony)

So to me, it appears BB - determined not to end up like Charles, as well as avenge his death - worked closely with Arizona police and his private detective, to suss out the complete situation. Among all the swirling suspicions about bumping off husbands and.wives, one concrete thing emerged: JJ's absence...

I think trying to kill BB was the conspiracy's fatal mistake. They stepped in a hornet's nest with that one, and it brought them down but I think it would have happened anyway, in the end.

JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

When posters say they believe the children were asphyxiated, that might be the case but it wasn’t to be fast or kind. Lori is hateful and enjoys murder. What they did to JJ is heinous. The prosecutor said there’s no way of knowing how long he suffered as he fought to live.
And they enjoyed beating and cutting up Tylee. I am convinced Lori had a big part it that. I believe she fought also. But the pain from being stabbed and having her pelvis cut into May have made her give up. I think Lori looked into their eyes while they were dying because she believed she was killing devils and not her children.

Rob Wood said in his closing statements that Tylee was dismembered after death. They think that Chad and Alex tried to burn the body whole and tried to break it down whilst it was burning.