GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #76

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While her statement does absolutely zip to show remorse or guilt or responsibility, it does seem to show how delusional beliefs were and still are.

If future counsel ever wanted to raise mental health issues not made as part of her main defense in an appeal, as part of some ineffective assistance type claim, seems like her current team left that door open for them. Judge also helped prop that door open today by reading into the record the seriousness and details of her mental health issues. I’ve read a few others speculate early on, based on some of their other cases’ appeals, that a long term strategy would be possibly leaving that door wide open, in that seriousness of her delusional beliefs and clearly poor mental health state played a big role in the crimes but a much smaller role in her defense. Here’s to hoping I’m totally wrong about this “door being opened” for an appeal though.

I’ve seen it happen elsewhere before but I really want to be wrong on this.
 
MTW2011 said:
While her statement does absolutely zip to show remorse or guilt or responsibility, it does seem to show how delusional beliefs were and still are.

If future counsel ever wanted to raise mental health issues not made as part of her main defense in an appeal, as part of some ineffective assistance type claim, seems like her current team left that door open for them. Judge also helped prop that door open today by reading into the record the seriousness and details of her mental health issues. I’ve read a few others speculate early on, based on some of their other cases’ appeals, that a long term strategy would be possibly leaving that door wide open, in that seriousness of her delusional beliefs and clearly poor mental health state played a big role in the crimes but a much smaller role in her defense. Here’s to hoping I’m totally wrong about this “door being opened” for an appeal though.

I’ve seen it happen elsewhere before but I really want to be wrong on this.
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Interesting. I don't think the door is open enough to let an appeal through. Yes, she has mental illnesses, but she still knew what she did was wrong - this is what I took away fom JB.
 
squareandrabbet said:
Agreed.

I'd love her NOT to.

But what people seem to miss about/when claiming this rill of nonsense instead shows cunning purposeful sanity on Lori's part, is... IMO, Lori isn't strumming upon any heartstrings or doctrine, that is logical or expected in any way, shape, or form to be believed.

If her goal is to be exonerated, she has to believe she's speaking the truth, because nobody would think "ah yes, this is the way to be exonerated!"

Also, she didn't rush into a psychiatric diagnosis, if I recall correctly... she had to be (pharmaceutically) drugged (and dragged) into the meetings of her "insanity defense".

She didn't embrace it as the answer... she shunned and avoided being judged mentally incompetent for as long as possible.
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squareandrabbet said:
Agreed.

I'd love her NOT to.

But what people seem to miss about/when claiming this rill of nonsense instead shows cunning purposeful sanity on Lori's part, is... IMO, Lori isn't strumming upon any heartstrings or doctrine, that is logical or expected in any way, shape, or form to be believed.

If her goal is to be exonerated, she has to believe she's speaking the truth, because nobody would think "ah yes, this is the way to be exonerated!"

Also, she didn't rush into a psychiatric diagnosis, if I recall correctly... she had to be (pharmaceutically) drugged (and dragged) into the meetings of her "insanity defense".

She didn't embrace it as the answer... she shunned and avoided being judged mentally incompetent for as long as possible.
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Yeah. If that were a plan, it was a terrible one.

Her best presentation would be eternal grief, not claiming the victims are happy or adults. If she were cynical, or better yet, if she were sincere, she should have spoken of having been manipulated into believing those things. She should have pointed out that her history of abuse and her mental illness make her especially vulnerable. And she should have gone back to defense attorneys closing points. Chad wasn't the better looking one. Chad was the poor one. Chad couldn't sell his stupid books. So he manipulated her to fill his needs for a goddess, money, and fame.

I actually believe the part of Chad manipulating her. But she doesn't see it yet.

If she had said the above, whether she meant it or not, I think she still should have received basically the same sentence. Because, again, she knew this world's laws. But there could be some possibility that such a statement could give her a more therapeutic incarceration or at least make it a little easier to develop a relationship with her visitors.

There was nothing that helped her in her statement.

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
Yeah. If that were a plan, it was a terrible one.

Her best presentation would be eternal grief, not claiming the victims are happy or adults. If she were cynical, or better yet, if she were sincere, she should have spoken of having been manipulated into believing those things. She should have pointed out that her history of abuse and her mental illness make her especially vulnerable. And she should have gone back to defense attorneys closing points. Chad wasn't the better looking one. Chad was the poor one. Chad couldn't sell his stupid books. So he manipulated her to fill his needs for a goddess, money, and fame.

I actually believe the part of Chad manipulating her. But she doesn't see it yet.

If she had said the above, whether she meant it or not, I think she still should have received basically the same sentence. Because, again, she knew this world's laws. But there could be some possibility that such a statement could give her a more therapeutic incarceration or at least make it a little easier to develop a relationship with her visitors.

There was nothing that helped her in her statement.

MOO
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She refuses to be held accountable for her actions. According to her, nobody was murdered, so no need to apologize. It's an easy way out to live in an imaginary world. IMO she knows well that she's manipulating other people. She would never confess to her true motives.
 
According to Lori:
Suicide explains Tylee's death.
Accidental death due to medication overdose was what caused JJ's "passing away."
-- and just plain accident was what befell Tammy? What -- she fell out of bed and died? Got tangled up in the sheets and strangled to death?
 
Nikynoo said:
Interesting. I don't think the door is open enough to let an appeal through. Yes, she has mental illnesses, but she still knew what she did was wrong - this is what I took away fom JB.
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You’re right, but imoo there’s much more to pull from including some that transpired today.

State (allegedly) allowing victim impact statements submitted to ore-sentence report containing statements outside the scope of what the statute allows/not filing any Objections except for the 2 smaller items they brought up today, the Court admitting to using some “aggravating factors” that quite literally are not written into the aggravating factors within the applicable Statutes, and that’s all before you include things like mentioning pending charges, where one is presumed innocent, in another jurisdiction and state, as part of the State’s sentencing recommendation. Yes it’s true she’s facing serious charges elsewhere, but it’s also true that those should likely not come up whatsoever in their recommendation because they aren’t “this” case.

All of those things - individually or collectively - I’ve seen included on other appeals. Mrs. Smith for the prosecution has had a homicide conviction overturned because she made statements that were similar to what Mr. Wood said today (where he said that the community would be shown that the lives lost have “no value” if the sentence was “anything less” than their recommendation. Smith made statements like that in her previous case and higher Court found that to be very inappropriate and not based in the law )

Sorry to sound like a Debbie Downer here, I just would hate to see anything handed to them for inclusion on an appeal so freely by the State, and this is long before they even could get to including things that happened at trial. Thankfully she’s going away for life, but even unsuccessful appeals do not = in my opinion, any less pain and suffering for the victims’ families.
 
indicolite22 said:
She refuses to be held accountable for her actions. According to her, nobody was murdered, so no need to apologize. It's an easy way out to live in an imaginary world. IMO she knows well that she's manipulating other people. She would never confess to her true motives.
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Well, according to Lori, Jesus "understands" her. [Jesus is just saying: "Oh, that's just Lori," by way of explaining away the murders she committed (or conspired to commit).]
 
MdlAgedCatLady said:
WTF!!! WTF is this woman babbling on about? I'm furious just hearing her voice. I'll probably get this post pulled, but what kind of crazy is this woman spewing???? Is this what she told all these people that she conned? How did anyone believe her? SHE'S TALKING ABOUT HOW SHE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS AFTER DEATH AND TAMMY IS HAPPY? I'm just so angry.
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In a way her take was very predictable. There's a ton of manipulation in her story, not just her claim about having a direct line to Jesus. She parroted Chad - she too can speak to dead people on the other side of the veil, she too had an NDE which gave her special powers.
 
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