Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #47

[Sorelle19]

Because some of us are uncomfortable about some of the information contained in those documents, hence the request for a sub forum.

If people want to explore and understand, kudos to them.

I tend to see things in an evidence based point of view and whether its relevant to the result that should be obtained. I can only see this information being relevant if the prosecution does not have direct evidence of LVDs involvement in the murders of JJ and Tylee.

IMO the documents should have been redacted prior to release by the court and if not, then they should have been redacted by the purchaser before sharing on public platforms OR the purchaser only needed to publish what was relevant.

MOO etc

I think we've about beat this horse to death. There's a call for sub-threads. Some aren't comfortable reading the court docs. Some are. The rationale for not reading them is subjective IMO and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[TLobo]

the hairstyle seems to have showed up at her wedding; Wedding photos show Lori Vallow's and Chad Daybell's ceremony just 6 weeks after kids go missing

and her part flips to the opposite side of her head from where it was in
her older pictures :
إخطار إعادة التوجيه

people do change hair styles, but it just stands out to me somehow.
outward manifestation of something? IMO.

She worked as a hair stylist (hairdresser? beautician? I'm not sure which description to use, but she cut, and presumably styled, hair). Many women that I know who have gone through such training seem to change up their hair more frequently than most other women, IMO.

My guess is that her hair is not naturally straight, but that she straightens or waves it regularly. When not incarcerated, that is. Without access to styling tools, she's stuck with semi-wavy hair and limited resources to make it look nice. It's like the Jolly Rancher lipstick, she feels like doing something is better than doing nothing, when it comes to jail-chic appearance.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think we've about beat this horse to death. There's a call for sub-threads. Some aren't comfortable reading the court docs. Some are. The rationale for not reading them is subjective IMO and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yet the intention of some is to focus and drill down on such in a separate sub.

MOO

There are two reasons here listed where support for sub forums...

#1 - folks don't want to discuss on main thread as they want to focus on what is most relevant in their opinion MOO for Tylee and JJ and court...

#2 - folks want to drill down and really focus on and discuss each and every subject. Especially with a HUGE doc dump which was done by a member at WS.

MOO this is usually the time for subforums on major cases.

 

[DippyHippy]

Exactly. People keep forgetting about the dog. Shouting set the dog off? How about multiple shots from a .45 automatic? (If you are to believe the Alex/Lori/Tylee story).

My personal opinion is that everything told to LE, including by Tylee, was a fabrication. I think Alex's truck was parked out of sight and Charles pulled into the driveway, walked inside and was confronted at gunpoint by Alex and Lori and ordered to surrender his wallet, rental car key fob, and phone. Lori and Tylee then hustled JJ and the dog through the garage into the Kia and drove off. Alex shot Charles (probably with a suppressor on the .45), and staged the crime scene by retrieving his truck, doing a bit of cleaning, and fetching the bat. Cops arrive, stories are told, happy-happy all around. Except for poor Charles.

Again, in my opinion, Chad and Lori started worrying that Tylee wasn't going to stick to the story. They arranged for her to be handed off to person or persons unknown at Yellowstone, and she refused to go, so they brought her back and killed her (or killed her on the way back). JJ became unmanageable and so they killed him. No more humanity than a pit viper between the two of them.

What I've never been able to get my head around is, just how calm this 16 year old girl (Tylee) was when 'returning' to the home with her Mother, after witnessing/being told of Charles being shot? What on earth had she been mentally subjected to over the years, that made her able to stand there without being hysterical/show emotion relevant to the situation - I would have been a jibbering wreck?

 

[DI_Isokawa]

What I've never been able to get my head around is, just how calm this 16 year old girl (Tylee) was when 'returning' to the home with her Mother, after witnessing/being told of Charles being shot? What on earth had she been mentally subjected to over the years, that made her able to stand there without being hysterical/show emotion relevant to the situation - I would have been a jibbering wreck?

She had the tragic bad luck to have been raised by a master manipulator. We may never know what Lori convinced her of or threatened her with that day, but I am positive that her entire statement to LE was coached by Lori.

 

[gumchew]

As a mother of four children who are now in their twenties and thirties I have only one question: knowing what we have all seen and read would any of you put your children in the hands of Chad’s, and they aren’t children, offspring, as educators, for six or more hours every day? And this question includes knowing about the very house they live in now. All apologies to those who find this question abrasive but no way. Hope I’m not in trouble for this.

That's kind of a loaded question that you're asking. I would not want my kids' care or education to be compromised by (what I assume is) the extreme media attention/scrutiny on all the children of Chad and Tammy Daybell right now. If you subtract that piece, I think you're sort of asking whether we'd trust the children of a suspected murderer. Or more specifically a suspected murderer who has voiced strange spiritual beliefs.

My answer to that slightly reframed question is probably yes. I have entrusted my kids to the public school system for over two decades now. Good or bad, I can't know what sort of families of origin those teachers may have come from, and doubt I'll ever know. Fortunately I have taught my children the value and importance of critical thinking, of not trusting a "single source of truth" and to question authority when what authority is telling you doesn't sound right.

 

[Forever Young]

the hairstyle seems to have showed up at her wedding; Wedding photos show Lori Vallow's and Chad Daybell's ceremony just 6 weeks after kids go missing

and her part flips to the opposite side of her head from where it was in
her older pictures :
إخطار إعادة التوجيه

people do change hair styles, but it just stands out to me somehow.
outward manifestation of something? IMO.

Its an outward manifestation of what Lori thinks a goddess should look like. Makes sense because everybody knows from the movies that an alternate personality looks a little different. IMO

 

[Forever Young]

Agreed. The FBI has reopened the death investigation of JR. All of these elements are crucial to understand. Given the custody battles, multiple assaults that occurred through out the custody battles, etc, one must ask how and why LVD still had Tylee in her care and how and why LVD and CW were allowed to adopt JJV. These children could have and should have been given safety long before the present day circumstances. MOO.

Just asking about this reopening of the investigation into JR's death, because I thought I'd just read that they are NOT reopening an investigation there, but maybe I missed it? I think they should reopen it, MO.

 

[gumchew]

There did seem to be some unresolvable differences between Mr. Webb and Mr. Means. The looks they were giving each other at Lori's first court appearance were rather telling; the tension between them is palpably thick. They're not talking to each other, just silently staring each other down, jaws firmly set with a slight frown.

And later, in the hearing where Judge Eddins would recuse himself from the case, on the phone Mr. Webb sounded like he did not want to talk with Mr. Means at all and there again seemed to be some notable tension and differences between them to the point that Mr. Webb decided to announce then and there his firm's intention to withdraw from the case. Judge Eddins seemed so shocked he didn't quite know how to proceed and asked Mr. Wood what he thought. Mr Wood also seemed dumbfounded and noted the tension in his remarks saying that these "two attorneys of record who seem to be having differing opinions."

Judge removes himself from case as two of Lori Vallow Daybell's attorneys plan to do the same | East Idaho News

It sure would be interesting to find out the story behind all of that. All MOO.

Yeah it seemed to boil down to them disagreeing on whether they wanted the court to sign the order of continuance for the preliminary hearing on the desertion charges. Sounds like Means was in favor of the continuance, but Webb/Elcox were against. It would definitely be interesting to know the reasoning behind this and why they couldn't come to an agreement.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yeah it seemed to boil down to them disagreeing on whether they wanted the court to sign the order of continuance for the preliminary hearing on the desertion charges. Sounds like Means was in favor of the continuance, but Webb/Elcox were against. It would definitely be interesting to know the reasoning behind this and why they couldn't come to an agreement.

It seems to me Webb/Elcox were the more qualified attorneys as well. Jmo

 

[gumchew]

Posted in March -


Kim Powell
@KimPowellTV
#wherearethekids: Sources tell CBS News there is digital evidence that links Alex Cox to Tammy Daybell's death. Her autopsy results are still pending. Alex died in December before he could ever be questioned. #azfamily https://azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/sources-alex-cox-may-be-linked-to-tammy-daybell-s/article_c0215994-6287-11ea-b797-978de65867de.html
2:07
2:19 AM · Mar 10, 2020

Kim Powell on Twitter

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Hmm. The tweet and the article don't quite gibe. All the linked article says is "Sources close to the missing Idaho children investigation told CBS News that Alex Cox, Lori Vallow's brother, may be linked to Tammy Daybell's death. However, he died before he could be questioned." Not sure where the "digital evidence" part comes from.

 

[gumchew]

Exactly. People keep forgetting about the dog. Shouting set the dog off? How about multiple shots from a .45 automatic? (If you are to believe the Alex/Lori/Tylee story).

My personal opinion is that everything told to LE, including by Tylee, was a fabrication. I think Alex's truck was parked out of sight and Charles pulled into the driveway, walked inside and was confronted at gunpoint by Alex and Lori and ordered to surrender his wallet, rental car key fob, and phone. Lori and Tylee then hustled JJ and the dog through the garage into the Kia and drove off. Alex shot Charles (probably with a suppressor on the .45), and staged the crime scene by retrieving his truck, doing a bit of cleaning, and fetching the bat. Cops arrive, stories are told, happy-happy all around. Except for poor Charles.

Again, in my opinion, Chad and Lori started worrying that Tylee wasn't going to stick to the story. They arranged for her to be handed off to person or persons unknown at Yellowstone, and she refused to go, so they brought her back and killed her (or killed her on the way back). JJ became unmanageable and so they killed him. No more humanity than a pit viper between the two of them.

I am with you on the first part (CV's death staging). But for Tylee, I am curious to know why you believe there was an aborted third party handoff? That seems to me like it would have just complicated matters by widening the "circle of trust".

 

[watergirl62]

I should have specified-I wasn’t talking about child support or the amicable divorce. I was speaking about other issues brought to court. At any rate; we will have a complete timeline for both CV/CW and LV/JR

Just listened to the Charles' divorce episode - wow - there are so many revelations here. Thanks for reading through those documents and explaining the situation involving the camera installation. I feel sorry for all the kids who had to live in or visit that house.

Hmm. The tweet and the article don't quite gibe. All the linked article says is "Sources close to the missing Idaho children investigation told CBS News that Alex Cox, Lori Vallow's brother, may be linked to Tammy Daybell's death. However, he died before he could be questioned." Not sure where the "digital evidence" part comes from.

IIRC, that was the only clue re: digital data prior to reading about AxC's September phone pings in CD's probable cause affidavit. So I think we can assume they had his analyzed at least his phone ping data by early March? Can't help but wonder what the October phone pings will tell us.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Can someone remind me when the end of the world is next week? I have some weekend plans to change if it's Monday.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I am with you on the first part (CV's death staging). But for Tylee, I am curious to know why you believe there was an aborted third party handoff? That seems to me like it would have just complicated matters by widening the "circle of trust".

It is my opinion that the circle of trust is and has always been larger than the seven individuals we focus on. Tylee was a young woman of childbearing age, a valuable commodity in certain circles. Given what we now know Chad and Lori are capable of, an attempt to (essentially) traffic Tylee cannot be ruled out.

I cannot think of another reason for the trip to Yellowstone. Lori hated places like that, especially on a chilly September day. The theory that they took poor Tylee there to kill her and dispose of her body in wilderness has been overtaken by events. Somebody else may come up with a plausible alternative but right now I can't. Suggestions welcome.

 

[wenwe4]

Can someone remind me when the end of the world is next week? I have some weekend plans to change if it's Monday.

You are good until Wednesday the 22nd according to unnamed sources. I thought maybe you were "asking for a friend".

 

[wenwe4]

It is my opinion that the circle of trust is and has always been larger than the seven individuals we focus on. Tylee was a young woman of childbearing age, a valuable commodity in certain circles. Given what we now know Chad and Lori are capable of, an attempt to (essentially) traffic Tylee cannot be ruled out.

I cannot think of another reason for the trip to Yellowstone. Lori hated places like that, especially on a chilly September day. The theory that they took poor Tylee there to kill her and dispose of her body in wilderness has been overtaken by events. Somebody else may come up with a plausible alternative but right now I can't. Suggestions welcome.

While I don't disagree with you about some sects of offshoots from the LDS religion still practice forms of arranged marriages with "young women of childbearing age" and there is ongoing human trafficking from AZ to Canada and down to Mexico, I don't think (at least have not heard mention) of it being a factor w/this particular group of people (ie: PaP, AVOW, etc.).

I agree that Yellowstone was not something LVD would put on her "bucket list" but I wouldn't rule out that AC or even the kids would want to see Old Faithful. It is a "freak of nature" if you will and not something everyone encounters in every part of the world. The family was within a couple hours drive from their home(s) and it would appear to be an appropriate day trip for someone who had just recently moved to the area on a Sunday IIRC. Since we do not have evidence of LVD nor AC establishing themselves in the local Ward of the LDS church - it is highly doubtful they were attending services that Sunday. I see YNP trip as a way to escape going to church, and since LVD & AC knew what was coming down very soon for these kids - it may have been their last hurrah or mini-vacay to say goodbye.

Just another hypothesis to throw out there.

 

[pizzaman12]

Dbm

 

[pizzaman12]

You mean the kids' autopsies, right? Not Tammy's? I ask only because what you quoted (above) was discussing Tammy's autopsy. If Nate said something about digital evidence to convict somebody in Tammy's murder I'd love to hear that.

I'm pretty I remember the same thing and it being NE, it wasn't SM but I could be wrong. I'm trying to find the link as well

@gumchew Took FOREVER to find it

Nate Eaton of EIN stated on Nancy Grace's podcast recently (link below, after 34:20) that due to the significant amount of evidence, the AG might be able to proceed with Tammy Daybell's case (conspiracy, murder attempt and murder) even without the autopsy results.

Where are the children? As ‘Cult mom’ Lori Vallow stays silent in jail, Nancy Grace weighs in on the fate of missing children Tylee and JJ

 

[gumchew]

Respectfully disagree. It's a matter of how we spend our time (opportunity cost). If we're going to go haring off in a "woulda coulda shoulda" direction, IMHO a far more relevant one is why Lori was treated with such unnatural respect by the Gilbert PD and Lori and Alex ditto by the Chandler PD, because that speaks to the existence or otherwise of more associates.

Frankly, the only question all the fooferaw about earlier divorces answers for me was the possibility that Lori had some kind of psychological turning point in January 2019. The answer is no, she was always the Manic Pixie Dream Girl From Hell. Issue resolved.

As an aside, "fooferaw" is such a wonderful word that is woefully underutilized these days

I agree with your viewpoint. The nitty gritty details of decade(s)-old custody battles seem more lurid than expository to me, and IMO won't do anything to help convict LVD on the current murders. JMO