Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #47

[indicolite22]

The plan to stay silent ship has sailed. The plan to blame AC for everything is gone. Finding the bodies on CD's property was a total game changer here. I wonder if the police had a tip, because they were very much spot on to the location of the bodies.

BBM. We were told that there was no tip but a combination of details that led police to the bodies. It was the location of Alex's phone combined with Chad's text to Tammy about a raccoon and confirmation of the pet cemetery on site by Tammy's sister that did it. Cadaver dogs quickly confirmed suspicions.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I get what you are saying but Meridian is a town of 75,000 with at least dozens of law offices. Big compared to Rexburg. Not one law office I find on sites specifically for finding attorneys lists that address yet Means and Prior both list the same address with the same suite number? The exact address that Drc40 points out is the address of record on the legal filings?

2 defendants in a conspiracy case independently find lawyers hundreds of miles away who are coincidentally sharing pens and pencils and eating lunch together...? I don't believe in coincidences.

I also believe, MOO, it is not incompetence but subterfuge that Means gets the zip code wrong and that the alternate address for Attorney Prior in Caldwell, ID is the same as 4 other law firms yet 3 of 4 law firms at that address on Google maps has a different address in their own websites. Doesn't pass the smell test to me.

Meridian Criminal Lawyers | Compare Top Rated Idaho Attorneys | Justia

Best 30 Attorneys in Meridian, ID with Reviews - YP.com

https://lawyers.findlaw.com

I completely agree here. Seems off and I hope the prosecutor is aware and can do something. Jmo

 

[mickey2942]

ITA. I don’t think it’s a winning defense, but I think it may be her ONLY defense if LE has enough evidence to show that she was heavily involved in the murders of her children.

IMO, she did not believe the gospel according to Chad, and she planned and is responsible for these crimes. Regardless of that, her team needs to defend her, and I think this is a plausible strategy that seems to be allowed in Idaho, despite the fact that the insanity defense is not. The Supreme Court‘s example in that document struck me; IMO, Lori will argue that she believed her children were “wolves”, so to speak.

In his opinion, Justice Breyer gave two examples of mentally insane criminal defendants. One of the defendants believed the victim was a wolf. The other defendant believed that a wolf ordered him to kill the human victim, so he shot and killed the human to comply with the wolf’s demand. The first defendant, because he lacked the requisite mens rea for the crime of murder in that he lacked intent to kill a human, is not guilty. But the second defendant, even though mentally insane, would have no defense to the crime of murder, because he knew he killed a human and he had the requisite criminal intent to kill the human. Under current Idaho law, even though both defendants are mentally insane, the second defendant would be guilty.

That said, I don’t think it will be difficult for the prosecution to disprove that she truly believed her children to be zombies at the times of the murders.

What negates this as a defense is that LVD, if she had believed that she killed her children because they were "zombies", she would have had no problem proclaiming this to the world. Because, in her belief system, she did nothing wrong.

The fact that she lied to LEO, evaded authorities, and made extradition back to Idaho to face charges as difficult as possible, added with the fact that she obtained legal counsel prior to going to Hawaii, shows that she knew killing her children was wrong.

David Berkowitz - Wikipedia

I have no doubt that LVD might try a defense that will display some sort of religious reasoning for her actions. But, like "Son of Sam", that won't work to evade punishment for her actions.

But it will make for an interesting trial.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

One thing I'd thought I'd throw out there about the lawyers in the same building, lawyers will often refer clients to other lawyers who specialize in certain areas. There can also be a buddy - buddy thing there being in a relatively small town. Perhaps CD asked MM if he knew anyone and MM may have refered the guy down the hall in his building. Just an thought.

I don’t think of Meridian or even the Boise area as small (meridian is a town just outside of Boise for those that don’t know). Imo CD was aware of attorneys in other places. He lived in Utah and even had a separate attorney here in Rexburg before switching to MM and then to Prior.

Not to mention, in the bail hearing where MM rambled for two hours, he mentioned he had been a lawyer for years. I’d think he would know atleast several lawyers who are more specialized in criminal proceedings or even as a defense attorney.

All jmo

 

[Nikynoo]

ITA. I don’t think it’s a winning defense, but I think it may be her ONLY defense if LE has enough evidence to show that she was heavily involved in the murders of her children.

IMO, she did not believe the gospel according to Chad, and she planned and is responsible for these crimes. Regardless of that, her team needs to defend her, and I think this is a plausible strategy that seems to be allowed in Idaho, despite the fact that the insanity defense is not. The Supreme Court‘s example in that document struck me; IMO, Lori will argue that she believed her children were “wolves”, so to speak.

In his opinion, Justice Breyer gave two examples of mentally insane criminal defendants. One of the defendants believed the victim was a wolf. The other defendant believed that a wolf ordered him to kill the human victim, so he shot and killed the human to comply with the wolf’s demand. The first defendant, because he lacked the requisite mens rea for the crime of murder in that he lacked intent to kill a human, is not guilty. But the second defendant, even though mentally insane, would have no defense to the crime of murder, because he knew he killed a human and he had the requisite criminal intent to kill the human. Under current Idaho law, even though both defendants are mentally insane, the second defendant would be guilty.

That said, I don’t think it will be difficult for the prosecution to disprove that she truly believed her children to be zombies at the times of the murders.

I suppose another avenue would be to ascertain exactly what Lori thinks a zombie is and how she could distinguish/characterise a 'zombie possession' viz a viz that persons normal behaviour.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree, CD probably did extensive "attorney shopping". And most attorneys probably either didn't want the case or didn't agree with the client strategy. Most attorneys probably see the best model here is to negotiate for a plea agreement.

I don't see the State of Idaho really negotiating with CD or LVD for anything less than 20 years.

My opinion of Means, is that he sees this case as a way for being high profile, it is. And maybe he thinks that the "Jose Baez" strategy will work here. I don't see LVD or CD getting off without significant prison time.

 

[Nikynoo]

I completely agree here. Seems off and I hope the prosecutor is aware and can do something. Jmo

There are defence attorneys in Rexburg, yes?

 

[Tortoise]

ITA. I don’t think it’s a winning defense, but I think it may be her ONLY defense if LE has enough evidence to show that she was heavily involved in the murders of her children.

IMO, she did not believe the gospel according to Chad, and she planned and is responsible for these crimes. Regardless of that, her team needs to defend her, and I think this is a plausible strategy that seems to be allowed in Idaho, despite the fact that the insanity defense is not. The Supreme Court‘s example in that document struck me; IMO, Lori will argue that she believed her children were “wolves”, so to speak.

In his opinion, Justice Breyer gave two examples of mentally insane criminal defendants. One of the defendants believed the victim was a wolf. The other defendant believed that a wolf ordered him to kill the human victim, so he shot and killed the human to comply with the wolf’s demand. The first defendant, because he lacked the requisite mens rea for the crime of murder in that he lacked intent to kill a human, is not guilty. But the second defendant, even though mentally insane, would have no defense to the crime of murder, because he knew he killed a human and he had the requisite criminal intent to kill the human. Under current Idaho law, even though both defendants are mentally insane, the second defendant would be guilty.

That said, I don’t think it will be difficult for the prosecution to disprove that she truly believed her children to be zombies at the times of the murders.

Wolves might be seen as dangerous, but 16 and 7 year old children? I think she would have to explain why zombies had to die.

I think it's a non-starter and it's going to be abundantly clear that this pair wanted to gather life insurance money, Chad wanted to avoid the shame of divorcing Tammy, the children would be witnesses to it, living in the middle of it, she was never a loving mother contrary to appearances, and they are both callous sociopaths.

moo

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

There are defence attorneys in Rexburg, yes?

Yes, as well as in Idaho Falls (which is just a short drive away, about 25-30 min).

Edit: although, it’s ironic CD dropped his first attorney, who has experience in this. Jmo

 

[pizzaman12]

In the Dr Sievers case burner phone were used by the perps a lot. They had a code when to switch phones. IIRC, LE was able do figure out who had what phone and found there were times that when they used the burner phones their regular phones would ping from the same tower while not being used. It was just a couple of phones instead of the large number of phones mentioned in this case so I don't know if it's relevant to this case but it appears some sort of identification can happen through hard work.

Hard work yes but if you keep using one, it certainly increases your chances of being caught. There are1 many that use a phone literally a single time or single day and then dispose of it. Not hang on to it and give LE more information

 

[pizzaman12]

The judge's stipulation - I would think so.

It seems there is this service available for victims who don't want to be contacted, which suggests to me there are no restrictions, but I don't actually know -

Victim Services | Idaho Department of Correction



All prisoner mail is read and copied, and all calls recorded anyway.

Recieving letters from someone who killed or co-conspired to kill is not uncommon at all and can be heartbreaking for those family members. I know it's happened within my family.

Every family member, etc...would need to be proactive and follow the steps outlined above, which will not happen. Maybe some, but not all.

 

[wenwe4]

I don’t think of Meridian or even the Boise area as small (meridian is a town just outside of Boise for those that don’t know). Imo CD was aware of attorneys in other places. He lived in Utah and even had a separate attorney here in Rexburg before switching to MM and then to Prior.

Not to mention, in the bail hearing where MM rambled for two hours, he mentioned he had been a lawyer for years. I’d think he would know atleast several lawyers who are more specialized in criminal proceedings or even as a defense attorney.

All jmo

OT re: Meridian
When I saw the discussion of the Atty's sharing office in Meridian, I had memories of driving from Boise to Nampa every Sunday (to visit my Great Grandmother) and Meridian was just a tiny town with 1 main street that went past the Speedway. There were distinct little "hamlets" between Boise and Caldwell as they divided the trip from the endless fields and sagebrush. It has grown to a point now I can't tell which city is which - no more "hamlets" left. The drive used to look much like the rural area surrounding CD's home.

It is interesting that a poster mentioned upthread that he spent all that time in his car the day of the search "googling Atty's" and ended up with the one that shares space w/his wife's Atty? I wonder who he really was on the phone with (not just googling) because it would be out of earshot from his own kids and the detectives searching the property. (LVD, MM, a "friend", Moroni?)
moo

 

[pizzaman12]

Yes, thats my take on it. But why would he?

Because as sick and demented as it may seem, it happens. Whether it's him saying I didn't do it, it's all a misunderstanding. I would never hurt a child, blah blah blah. There are many possibilities. Could be some level of remorse or guilt. Some letters could be vague and be taunting but meets the requirements in what is allowed to be mailed by a prisoner.

Please note that I'm not saying that I think he will or would want to.

I just posted above this that I have family who has dealt with the above.

ETA

 

[wenwe4]

Pizzaman, I am sorry you have had to endure the fallout of a family member's terrible decisions and behaviors - the devastation is wide and deep and often perpetrators have no clue how many they actually hurt. I am sure many people here have had someone they know, love, or are related to that disappointed the family.

Usually the offender is the one blaming everyone else for their own behaviors (in my experience).
MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

OT re: Meridian
When I saw the discussion of the Atty's sharing office in Meridian, I had memories of driving from Boise to Nampa every Sunday (to visit my Great Grandmother) and Meridian was just a tiny town with 1 main street that went past the Speedway. There were distinct little "hamlets" between Boise and Caldwell as they divided the trip from the endless fields and sagebrush. It has grown to a point now I can't tell which city is which - no more "hamlets" left. The drive used to look much like the rural area surrounding CD's home.

It is interesting that a poster mentioned upthread that he spent all that time in his car the day of the search "googling Atty's" and ended up with the one that shares space w/his wife's Atty? I wonder who he really was on the phone with (not just googling) because it would be out of earshot from his own kids and the detectives searching the property. (LVD, MM, a "friend", Moroni?)
moo

I believe the googling is an unfortunate rumor started on WS. Someone said it and it grew from there. I could be 100% wrong but I think we've addressed this before. Jmo

 

[pizzaman12]

Pizzaman, I am sorry you have had to endure the fallout of a family member's terrible decisions and behaviors - the devastation is wide and deep and often perpetrators have no clue how many they actually hurt. I am sure many people here have had someone they know, love, or are related to that disappointed the family.

Usually the offender is the one blaming everyone else for their own behaviors (in my experience).
MOO

Thanks and i completely agree with the BBM

Also, I need to rephrase. Our family has dealt with the offender wanting to contact the victim's family for various reasons. You don't have much say if it meets the jails requirements

 

[Niner]

snipped by me....
Maybe CD and LVD are still waiting for July 20th. Once that Koolaid trip is finished, we may see some significant changes.

Why July 20th? Did I miss a hearing date announcement?

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

Wolves might be seen as dangerous, but 16 and 7 year old children? I think she would have to explain why zombies had to die.

I think it's a non-starter and it's going to be abundantly clear that this pair wanted to gather life insurance money, Chad wanted to avoid the shame of divorcing Tammy, the children would be witnesses to it, living in the middle of it, she was never a loving mother contrary to appearances, and they are both callous sociopaths.

moo

MOO
Add: If the strange Email was correct there were also plans to consummate their marriage 3x a day. Hard to do with kids around.

 

[GoofyJen]

OT re: Meridian
When I saw the discussion of the Atty's sharing office in Meridian, I had memories of driving from Boise to Nampa every Sunday (to visit my Great Grandmother) and Meridian was just a tiny town with 1 main street that went past the Speedway. There were distinct little "hamlets" between Boise and Caldwell as they divided the trip from the endless fields and sagebrush. It has grown to a point now I can't tell which city is which - no more "hamlets" left. The drive used to look much like the rural area surrounding CD's home.

It is interesting that a poster mentioned upthread that he spent all that time in his car the day of the search "googling Atty's" and ended up with the one that shares space w/his wife's Atty? I wonder who he really was on the phone with (not just googling) because it would be out of earshot from his own kids and the detectives searching the property. (LVD, MM, a "friend", Moroni?)
moo

He IS Moroni! No need to call himself!

 

[gumchew]

I thought that the prohibition on communication was ONLY in the event either of them posted bail. It's listed as a condition of bail.

Ah, nuts. You're right of course. I had this really mixed up in my head. It's a bail condition and it prevents only communications with victim's family members and state's witnesses. Still murky waters with Means and Prior regardless IMO.

I wonder, then, can CD and LVD pass notes through their lawyers? Notes which would not be read by corrections staff?