Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #50

[BobLive]

I think its kind of a passive "throw mud on the wall" approach - as burden of proof is on the prosecution to show Chad's involvement. Can they show Chad was physically present?

IMO this is why the conspiracy charges were added. If the prosecution cannot show Chad was doing the burning and the digging, it surely is beyond argument that Chad was a knowing participant in the conspiracy around those actions, if not a physical participant in the digging.

It can be verified that CD was actually on the property by his text to TD that he was going to take a shower, IMO. As to the digging, even if CD didn't do that, he was certainly allowing the burying! MOO

 

[longtimereader]

Possibly "my attorney" not "Marty Harding". "My attorney" would be Means, at that time.

I replayed that mesaage a few times and wondered if he said "don't pray". I thought that might be why she then asks what she can do for him. As of she can do anything from jail except pray and/or call her lawyer. The whole call makes it apparent that he is telling her that they are digging up the children and that she knows what he is talking about. She doesn't say, what tombstones? What are you talking about? She never lived there and should not have known about the pet cemetary.

 

[Niner]

snipped...

YES !!! A direct threat !!
MG told LVD and CD that she asked Alex about the kids and his response is "you don't want to know"
So at that point- LVD and CD knew MG had discussed with Alex, LVD denied to MG that Alex knew anything and why would he even say that while we now know from the investigation that Alex was at the property.
LVD and CD knew MG was going to talk to LE
LVD and CD had to get rid of Alex as they now know he already discussed it with MG and well, who else might he discuss it with ??
He needed to be silenced.

what date did Alex die? This call was on 12/8/19. TIA!

 

[longtimereader]

Possibly "my attorney" not "Marty Harding". "My attorney" would be Means, at that time.

I replayed that mesaage a few times and wondered if he said "don't pray". I thought that might be why she then asks what she can do for him. As of she can do anything from jail except pray and/or call her lawyer. The whole call makes it apparent that he is telling her that they are digging up the children and that she knows what he is talking about. She doesn't say, what tombstones? What are you talking about? She never lived there and should not have known about the pet cemetary.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Very interesting that they had two different accounts. I missed MG’s testimony live. Is this realtor on the witness list for Lori?

DW said in his testimony that himself, Lori, Alex, MG, Chad and Chad's realtor were present at the viewing of a piece of property near Chad's home on Sunday, September 22. I wonder who took care of JJ in the meantime.

I missed part of that. Was any explanation given as to who was formally looking into that property?

MG stated that LV was NOT present during the real estate trip 57:28
DW stated that LV WAS present during the real estate trip 6:47

 

[Onsdag]

I think there has to be DNA and fingerprints from those items IMO. And the "tombstones".

In the transcript upthread by @Floppity
they appear to acknowledge the tombstones found covering JJs grave.

C: I tried to [not discernible] I’m glad you called.
L: yeah.
C: so.. they see the tombstones
L: great. Do you want me to pray?
C: [talked at the same time as L, can’t make out what he said, mostly mumbling] what?
L: what do you want me to do?

They could only know about the stones if they knew about JJ's death and burial.

Though floppity did a great job overall with the transcript, I do believe the "tombstones" part is a mistake and was misheard. I believe the correct dialogue is:

Chad: "So we'll see what transpires."

This makes more sense given their previous discussion of law enforcement searching the property as they can only wait and see what happens as a result of the search. Furthermore, I don't believe they had any kind of "tombstone" or other marker identifying the gravesites, excepting the puppy statue marking the pet cemetery in general. And to mention "tombstones" in a phone call they knew was being recorded surely would have been the last nail in their coffins so to speak (forgive the pun). But you can listen to the audio and decide for yourself what is said. You'll find it at the 1:38 timestamp:

 

[BobLive]

I think its kind of a passive "throw mud on the wall" approach - as burden of proof is on the prosecution to show Chad's involvement. Can they show Chad was physically present?

IMO this is why the conspiracy charges were added. If the prosecution cannot show Chad was doing the burning and the digging, it surely is beyond argument that Chad was a knowing participant in the conspiracy around those actions, if not a physical participant in the digging.

It can be verified that CD was actually on the property by his text to TD that he was going to take a shower, IMO. As to the digging, even if CD didn't do that, he was certainly allowing the burying! MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

DW said in his testimony that himself, Lori, Alex, MG, Chad and Chad's realtor were present at the viewing of a piece of property near Chad's home on Sunday, September 22. I wonder who took care of JJ in the meantime.

Great point, I totally missed that fact.

 

[longtimereader]

Duct tape always picks up hair when I use it. I think that even if the person(s) wore gloves, there would be hair, carpet fibers (if inside), grass/dirt/leaves (if outside) as well as skin cells and spit if they tore it with their teeth. Given the several feet of duct tape used, there should be quite a bit of environmental or personal evidence stuck to it.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Commenting on Floppity, post: 16271063, member: 222890

Floppity is in black, my comments in red to correct/add to what Floppity says below. I shrunk Floppity in text size if I disagree with. I very much disagree with tombstone talk @ 1:44 in audio attached which is getting legs on threads. I believe 100% he is saying "we will see what transpires(or conspires?)" and there is no mention of tombstones. Thanks Floppity for sharing your thoughts to work from!

"Prison phone call, LV to CD, June 9th. I’ll indicate where it wasn’t discernible. Given the quality of the audio, I’ll note this is what I believe was said, not what was definitely said. Ellipses indicates delay, not missing words. Italics indicate I’m not sure if i heard it correctly.

LV: Hi babe
CD: Hello
L: are you OK?
C: SO they’re searching the... property
L: The house? Right now?
C: Yeah. Yeah. My house
So...Mark Means will be talking to you.
L: ok. Well, are they in the house?
C: No, they’re out in at the property.
L: are they seizing stuff? Again?
C: they’re searching...
L: Mmhmm
C: And it's a search warrant, and so..???? [not discernible... sounds like it ends with “I don’t think I can handle this, with the kids]
L: ok
C: Yeah I tried to ??fill up?? a call. [not discernible] I’m glad you called.
L: yeah.
@1:44 in this tape of the call C: so..We'll see what conspires (would make more sense to say transpires, but he says "conspires?" they see the tombstones
L: great. Do you want me to pray?
C: [talked at the same time as L, can’t make out what he said, mostly mumbling] what?
L: what do you want me to do? Pray?
C yeah, pray
So, Um, yep
L: ok. What can I do for you?
C: I don't, You don't try to call, I'll call Mark ...???? and talk with him [not discernible, and soun ds possibly coded to me] I’ll [again, not discernible, possible coded]. Just talk with me
L: Have you talked to [Marty?? Harding? No clue. Didn’t sound like Mark Means to me. Still seems coded] (e.d. is she saying the name of the son that was at the house when Tammy died that we heard the name in court yesterday?)
C: I did call him, yes.
L: ok, that is so he knows what theyyou are doing. [see what I mean by coded?]
C: yes. It’s like it’s hard from somebody else, sometimes, you know. I love you so much. (e.d. I think this needs more listening to, as the first part not sure also)
L: ok, I love you. Should I try to call you later?
C: hmm. I don’t know. I don’t know. You can try, yeah. I’ll answer if I can.
L: ok
C: I love you and we'll talk soon
L: ok baby [Pet name or something?]. We I love you.
C: ok. Love you Goodbye.
L: bye.
[End]

MOO: C sounded devastated and terrified, L sounded completely unaffected after the initial shock.

source for transcription and timestamp at

I replayed that mesaage a few times and wondered if he said "don't pray". I thought that might be why she then asks what she can do for him. As of she can do anything from jail except pray and/or call her lawyer. The whole call makes it apparent that he is telling her that they are digging up the children and that she knows what he is talking about. She doesn't say, what tombstones? What are you talking about? She never lived there and should not have known about the pet cemetary.

Personally I hear “Hardy” so much that I spent some time searching for who Hardy could be. There were a couple notable options I found but not sure if there was a relationship to Chad. One being someone who was ex-communicated and went to BYU, another being an attorney nearby. I will be curious who that is.

Weird that they say tombstones. Why would they say that? Was their some significance to tombstones with either zombies, the LDS faith or what? Wonder if they wrote on them?

I also commented on Chad’s tone earlier. He sounds so drugged to me. Like maybe he’s on antidepressants that are too strong. But after thinking about it I realize that Lori does not sound like she is bothered by his tone and therefore she must have heard this type of tone of voice from him before.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I missed part of that. Was any explanation given as to who was formally looking into that property?

I haven't seen "realtor" on Lori's witness list

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

MG stated that LV was NOT present during the real estate trip 57:28
DW stated that LV WAS present during the real estate trip 6:47

Yes, MG was very definitive in her answer of "No". But DW said "at first" Lori was there.
This was a very strange discussion to me. MG said it was for Chad to show a piece of land to DW and was encouraging him to build on it. Buy and build for himself? Then he would be neighbors with Chad..and Tammy. This was September. Would MG be moving in? Wouldn't that be a little awkward? Was Lori at the showing? I don't believe so. She took her own car, and left before Chad and the realtor got there. Slithered away. So MG would have been telling the truth that Lori was not at the meeting with the realtor to show the land, AND DW was now correct in his count of how many were there.. 5. MG, DW, AC, Chad, and realtor. Moo.

 

[tresir2012]

I replayed that mesaage a few times and wondered if he said "don't pray". I thought that might be why she then asks what she can do for him. As of she can do anything from jail except pray and/or call her lawyer. The whole call makes it apparent that he is telling her that they are digging up the children and that she knows what he is talking about. She doesn't say, what tombstones? What are you talking about? She never lived there and should not have known about the pet cemetary.

That is what the OP stated was in the transcript. I have not listened to it and have only read transcripts on here.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

And MG went into hiding. Don't really blame her. JMO

And BB's kids whisked to his parents home, where AC etc. showed up at

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Duct tape always picks up hair when I use it. I think that even if the person(s) wore gloves, there would be hair, carpet fibers (if inside), grass/dirt/leaves (if outside) as well as skin cells and spit if they tore it with their teeth. Given the several feet of duct tape used, there should be quite a bit of environmental or personal evidence stuck to it.

I can’t remember where I read this, here or in forensic files. But it was about duct tape and how a chip of finger nail polish was found on it that matched the perpetrator. I think I remember them saying the duct tape is sprayed with some type of chemical to reveal the fingerprint imprint.

I decided to do a quick search on the method. Chemistry and fingerprints - Forensic Science - Bev Fitchett's Guns

 

[Onsdag]

I missed part of that. Was any explanation given as to who was formally looking into that property?

If I recall correctly from testimony given at the hearing (from MG I believe) Chad was trying to convince DW to purchase that piece of property.

 

[Hatfield]

One thing I wanted to bring up before I forget which I found to be very telling.

The LE bodycam footage when LV showed up at Charles murder scene.

Other than all of LV's smiling and almost laughing at times at the murder scene of her husband, the other thing that really stood out to me was when she called Tylee over to try to get her to cover for her with a statement to police.

I cant find the video that shows Tylee's response so I included one that is close but they cut out that part. Tylee says something like this to Lori when she replied to Lori in front of the officers. Tylee sounded frustrated with Lori and said something like...

Tylee: "What do you want me to say?"

I interpreted that response to mean "I will say whatever you want me to say, so what was it again you wanted me to say?"

It was obvious to me that Lori had already been talking to Tylee and coaching her on what to say about things when officers were around.

Lori had controlled Tylee growing up and as Tylee was getting older now she was more independent and that clashed with Lori's controlling nature. I feel Tylee was at the point of realizing a lot of what she has been told growing up with Lori was all starting to feel like a lot of falsehoods and she was realizing it and she about had enough of it.

Body camera shows aftermath of 2019 shooting that killed Charles Vallow

 

[BobLive]

It's easy to find the racoon. Ask Chad where he buried it and get him to locate the spot. He will then probably send them to the July racoon he supposedly shot and buried. But how did he not see Alex burying and burning Tylee while he was dealing with the September racoon?

It's just absurd, in my opinion, that JP continued to grill FBI Agent Daniels about not expanding a search beyond "his pet cemetery" after the bodies of the children were discovered. JP may want to imply that Alc was the one burning and burying their bodies but not CD, then we're supposed to think that Grave Digger Chad was in his backyard chasing a raccoon? That still doesn't absolve him of guilt! MOO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Yes, MG was very definitive in her answer of "No". But DW said "at first" Lori was there.
This was a very strange discussion to me. MG said it was for Chad to show a piece of land to DW and was encouraging him to build on it. Buy and build for himself? Then he would be neighbors with Chad..and Tammy. This was September. Would MG be moving in? Wouldn't that be a little awkward? Was Lori at the showing? I don't believe so. She took her own car, and left before Chad and the realtor got there. Slithered away. So MG would have been telling the truth that Lori was not at the meeting with the realtor to show the land, AND DW was now correct in his count of how many were there.. 5. MG, DW, AC, Chad, and realtor. Moo.

It is also interesting as to the “why”. Maybe part of the end times belief or simply maybe Chad and Lori’s need for money.

 

[Forever Young]

The trouble with this case is that it seems clear that CD and LV are involved in a murder spree, but it is not clear exactly what role LV and CD had in each, and I think it is a strong possibility that it was AC who did the actual killing.

This is why I wonder if the eventual case has to be that this was all a joint enterprise and it is not required that the prosecution prove who did exactly what

They all planned and carried out the scheme.

But this was brought up somewhere yesterday, maybe in media, I don't remember exactly where, that if they cannot pin murder on one specific party, they do at least have to prove "conspiracy". And that was the concern for where and why this case could have gone wrong. Where and when was the agreement to plan and conspire?

One thing that has been stuck in my mind, since WTAF brought out the previous court documents, is that Lori was apparently able to talk Charles into some pretty outrageous behavior during the custody hearings with Joseph Ryan for Tylee. Charles attacked the opposing lawyer's wife in the parking lot? Like Alex tazing Joe Ryan, in a parking lot?

Lori has a manipulative skill for telling such outrageous lies that get the men (and sometimes women) in her life to try and protect her, and instead put themselves at great risk.

What did she tell Alex about Charles, Kay and Larry? Same old story, that her life was being threatened? That her own brother Adam was in on a conspiracy to kill her for a $2 million life insurance policy? That's what she told Melanie Gibb, and the other Melanie.

Why do we think that she told Chad anything different?

Where is the conspiracy here? It is only one person responsible for telling lies that HER life was in danger, and getting everyone running around in circles, telling them that if they really loved her, they would do whatever they could to protect HER, the poor, innocent, weak child-woman. This is basically what she did to Melanie Gibb.

This is how I'm leaning, because it fits Lori's MO. Joseph Ryan - disposable dupe, Charles Vallow - disposable dupe, Alex - disposable, JJ and Tylee - disposable. And yes, Chad's day was coming, too. Dupes and patsies, all of them.

Lori has no capacity to love, and we are deceiving ourselves if we think that. This is her pattern, IMO, in the common ways that JR, CV, AC, MG, MB, JJV, TR, and yes, CD were all used.

And just like Melanie Gibb, there was no conspiracy among any two or three people to kill JJ and Tylee. Only one manipulative person, pulling the strings behind the scenes, using sexuality and charm, and getting away with it, by telling everyone how much she "loved" them, speaking for God, and feeding their own need to hear that.

IMO, unless and until more evidence is presented.