Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Kimmer]

Everything below is MOO.

I suspect that the raccoon text was sent in order to explain the freshly disturbed earth in the pet cemetery rather than a gunshot. It seems more likely that Tylee and JJ were killed in a manner that minimized blood evidence, such as poisoning or strangulation, as opposed to being shot.

If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, there may not necessarily be as much evidence as you would think. Chad and/or Alex may have been aware that, if a body sits for a certain period of time before dismemberment, blood coagulates, which could lead to an almost bloodless dismemberment scene. (See the recent case of Fahim Saleh.) If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, I suspect that it was on Chad’s property.

Whether they did or did not dismember Tylee’s body prior to the bonfire, I believe that Chad and Alex are fully capable of pulling off what happened to Tylee. Sadly, you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to figure out an effective way to dispose of a body, especially if you are in a calm state-of-mind. Clearly, it wasn’t as effective of a method as they had originally hoped, since they treated JJ’s body differently.

yea thats why they are not the sharpest tools in the box, they thought they could cremate her, I would think as a cemetary worker, grave digger he would have known that would be infective

 

[mickey2942]

If I drive that way in the next day or so I’ll snap a picture for you.

Perfect. It is so beautiful. I want everyone here to be able to enjoy it. They look like angels up in the sky.

Since you are in the area, what do you think about the jurors for this trial? Do you think that this crime has had a huge impact on the community? It seems like even the whole state of Idaho has been affected.

It doesn't seem like requesting a change of venue for the next county over would make much difference.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just a few thoughts on new information that came out of CD's prelim.

(I've made a transcript of the officer's bodycam footage and posted it in the media thread here.)

On the day police went to do the welfare check (Nov 26th) LVD mentioned moving several times, despite confirming that Tylee goes to BYU-I and lives with her -

"and so I was going to move back to Arizona"
"But I’m gonna go back to Arizona so I can put him back into special needs school, he couldn’t do his school here..."
"My brother and his friend, probably, they’re moving"
"well the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me..."
"well that’s why I’m moving back. I’m moving and I’m not going to be in a place, I’m going to live with my friend Melanie, don’t tell..."

I think she hasn't quite got her story straight in her own mind before they visit about whether to mention that she is moving (she starts out saying "I was going to move"), and then when she obviously decides to tell them she's moving, the reason for the move - if it's for JJ's schooling, or because her brother is trying to kill her.

She's also not sure if AdC is still trying to kill her or if that was only while CV was alive, and avoids ever mentioning AdC by name -

"I’ve had to move around a lot, one of my brothers is trying to kill me, not the brother that lives here obviously, he’s kind of my protector [laugh] my other brother was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2million life insurance policy."
"the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live..."
"after my husband passed I found emails and texts between them that they were planning all this stuff, to get rid of me."

Also I noticed she refers to finding texts between AdC and CV, after CV's death. That suggests to me she managed to keep CV's phone.

The amount of laughter during the conversation does not sound like someone in fear for her life. Officers really should have training in matching body language with what is being reported to them, imo. And what the heck - the biggest red flag is her saying that CV changed his beneficiary, acrimoniously, and died!! Didn't they think, oh, so why didn't he want his wife on the policy? I get that they went back with search warrants so they didn't effectively drop the ball, but I don't think they left the house thinking anything was hinky. They were apologizing for bothering her, they knew she had been under surveillance for a jeep connected with a shooting and that JJ had not been seen in that month, they knew all of KW's concerns, and that Det Hermosillo had passed on his suspicions about CD and that LVD was also not admitting CD was anyone other than her brother's friend!

This doesn't sit right with me either - just for the fact that she is using it in a persuasive way -

..."she wanted us to adopt him. Which we did. We’ve loved him and taken care"..



---

In the phone call recorded by MG she only asks about JJ.

What's interesting, from a prosecution standpoint, is that LVD says on the call "I'm sorry that you don't want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children." I'm not sure why MG doesn't pick up this cue and ask if Tylee is also 'missing'. She has said she never really believed the BYU story, and that she was accusing LVD and CD of murder, in her round-about way, in this call:-

From Dateline - MG: “It was a very unnerving phone call. Now I was confronting them that they were potential killers.”

It shows anyway, IMO, that LVD can't say she thought one thing about Tylee (being older and more independent) and another about JJ - she's put them together in this sentence.

MOO

Your comments equate what many others have stated. Melanie was really concerned about Melanie. From the very first phone call, when Chad and Lori each called her to say she had JJ, Melanie is concerned with what will happen to her, perhaps even more than JJ.

Why not Tylee too? And why was CD's Prior ask Melanie about her relationship with Tylee?
Something tells me that C and Lori will say that Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee. But I don't think it will ever be proven.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just a few thoughts on new information that came out of CD's prelim.

(I've made a transcript of the officer's bodycam footage and posted it in the media thread here.)

On the day police went to do the welfare check (Nov 26th) LVD mentioned moving several times, despite confirming that Tylee goes to BYU-I and lives with her -

"and so I was going to move back to Arizona"
"But I’m gonna go back to Arizona so I can put him back into special needs school, he couldn’t do his school here..."
"My brother and his friend, probably, they’re moving"
"well the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me..."
"well that’s why I’m moving back. I’m moving and I’m not going to be in a place, I’m going to live with my friend Melanie, don’t tell..."

I think she hasn't quite got her story straight in her own mind before they visit about whether to mention that she is moving (she starts out saying "I was going to move"), and then when she obviously decides to tell them she's moving, the reason for the move - if it's for JJ's schooling, or because her brother is trying to kill her.

She's also not sure if AdC is still trying to kill her or if that was only while CV was alive, and avoids ever mentioning AdC by name -

"I’ve had to move around a lot, one of my brothers is trying to kill me, not the brother that lives here obviously, he’s kind of my protector [laugh] my other brother was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2million life insurance policy."
"the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live..."
"after my husband passed I found emails and texts between them that they were planning all this stuff, to get rid of me."

Also I noticed she refers to finding texts between AdC and CV, after CV's death. That suggests to me she managed to keep CV's phone.

The amount of laughter during the conversation does not sound like someone in fear for her life. Officers really should have training in matching body language with what is being reported to them, imo. And what the heck - the biggest red flag is her saying that CV changed his beneficiary, acrimoniously, and died!! Didn't they think, oh, so why didn't he want his wife on the policy? I get that they went back with search warrants so they didn't effectively drop the ball, but I don't think they left the house thinking anything was hinky. They were apologizing for bothering her, they knew she had been under surveillance for a jeep connected with a shooting and that JJ had not been seen in that month, they knew all of KW's concerns, and that Det Hermosillo had passed on his suspicions about CD and that LVD was also not admitting CD was anyone other than her brother's friend!

This doesn't sit right with me either - just for the fact that she is using it in a persuasive way -

..."she wanted us to adopt him. Which we did. We’ve loved him and taken care"..



---

In the phone call recorded by MG she only asks about JJ.

What's interesting, from a prosecution standpoint, is that LVD says on the call "I'm sorry that you don't want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children." I'm not sure why MG doesn't pick up this cue and ask if Tylee is also 'missing'. She has said she never really believed the BYU story, and that she was accusing LVD and CD of murder, in her round-about way, in this call:-

From Dateline - MG: “It was a very unnerving phone call. Now I was confronting them that they were potential killers.”

It shows anyway, IMO, that LVD can't say she thought one thing about Tylee (being older and more independent) and another about JJ - she's put them together in this sentence.

MOO

Your comments equate what many others have stated. Melanie was really concerned about Melanie. From the very first phone call, when Chad and Lori each called her to say she had JJ, Melanie is concerned with what will happen to her, perhaps even more than JJ.

Why not Tylee too? And why was CD's Prior ask Melanie about her relationship with Tylee?
Something tells me that C and Lori will say that Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee. But I don't think it will ever be proven.

 

[The First Article]

remains one of my biggest mysteries as well.... where and who did the horrifying things to Tylee's body?? I just don't see our creeps being this skilled....

Chad had lots of time with lots of bodies....

I'd be interested if he ever buried someone he had beef with. Looking into their graves might provide evidence of an ongoing depravity, or if this level of it is new.

 

[MsJosie]

There's an item that keeps bugging me about this whole "bonfire in the backyard" scenario to conceal Tylee's remains. It takes a lot of wood to do this. CD doesn't have much vegetation in the backyard. Where is all this wood coming from?

-If he's using brush that he cut, it would have smoked like crazy.
-They would have needed logs, IMO. Seasoned logs.
-If they're bringing wood in or hauling it from the barn, they'd need the pickup or some other obvious method. With a wheelbarrow, they'd be going all morning.
-It's possible they did a run for "camp wood", which could account for the one ping-trip where AlC left the county and came right back.

In the evidence category, it's possible LE can retrieve electronic records of transactions at the gas station(s) or convenience stores. This happened in the Arias case, years after the fact.
They'd likely have access to both AlC's credit card records and the gas station *** records.

what was stored in the shed or barn building? Some people store wood in there to keep it dry....trying to remember what Frazee used to burn his ex fiancé in the horse trough.....gasoline....oil and wood....I don’t think it was ever said how much was used but I remember he could not totally destroy the body. His mom, gf and he watched it burn. He then used a tractor and disposed of her remains which did not totally burn. No one knew where the remains went, possibly the creek or river on his mom’s property or else where. I do remember he used wood, gas and oil. So long ago but not that long. Moo

below is one of many links that tell the use of wood, oil and gas. I know it’s the DM but it saids the same as other articles some behind pay walls.


Patrick Frazee's ex told how his mother watched as he burned Kelsey Berreth's body | Daily Mail Online

 

[MsJosie]

Everything below is MOO.

I suspect that the raccoon text was sent in order to explain the freshly disturbed earth in the pet cemetery rather than a gunshot. It seems more likely that Tylee and JJ were killed in a manner that minimized blood evidence, such as poisoning or strangulation, as opposed to being shot.

If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, there may not necessarily be as much evidence as you would think. Chad and/or Alex may have been aware that, if a body sits for a certain period of time before dismemberment, blood coagulates, which could lead to an almost bloodless dismemberment scene. (See the recent case of Fahim Saleh.) If Tylee were dismembered prior to the bonfire, I suspect that it was on Chad’s property.

Whether they did or did not dismember Tylee’s body prior to the bonfire, I believe that Chad and Alex are fully capable of pulling off what happened to Tylee. Sadly, you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to figure out an effective way to dispose of a body, especially if you are in a calm state-of-mind. Clearly, it wasn’t as effective of a method as they had originally hoped, since they treated JJ’s body differently.

Do you or anyone remember if cadaver dogs or luminal was used int the apartments Or cars for body fluids? I often wonder about that. I don’t remember it being mentioned. If the children were killed in the apartment and were left there for any time There may be some evidence. Even now if they go back, rugs might show signs. A long shot.

 

[Diddian]

There's an item that keeps bugging me about this whole "bonfire in the backyard" scenario to conceal Tylee's remains. It takes a lot of wood to do this. CD doesn't have much vegetation in the backyard. Where is all this wood coming from?

-If he's using brush that he cut, it would have smoked like crazy.
-They would have needed logs, IMO. Seasoned logs.
-If they're bringing wood in or hauling it from the barn, they'd need the pickup or some other obvious method. With a wheelbarrow, they'd be going all morning.
-It's possible they did a run for "camp wood", which could account for the one ping-trip where AlC left the county and came right back.

In the evidence category, it's possible LE can retrieve electronic records of transactions at the gas station(s) or convenience stores. This happened in the Arias case, years after the fact.
They'd likely have access to both AlC's credit card records and the gas station *** records.

The satellite image that was taken sometime shortly after TR's body was burned and the remains buried there has what looks like wispy cloud cover. Is it possible that, rather than clouds, the wispy cover is actually residual smoke from that fire? If you look at that photo, there are NO CLOUDS anywhere else, but there is that wispy cover with CD's property dead center of it.

Satellite Photo Shows Chad Daybell Property On Likely Day Of Child's Burial

ETA: Here, for example, is a satellite photo of a much larger smoke plume from the November 2019 Camp Fire in northern California. I wonder if a study of the atmospheric conditions on Sept 9 would indicate that the "clouds" in the satellite image over the Daybell property on Sept 9 are in fact smoke.

SOURCE:
Satellite image shows Camp Fire smoke covering Bay Area

 

[lurker042]

Just a few thoughts on the body cam transcipt when LV was first approached.

She slipped up a few times. If they would have just let her keep talking, she would have divulged even more information.

From transcript....
LVD: [laugh] So a lot of stuff is going on and this last year has been a horrible year for us, I’ve had to move around, and so I was going to move back to Arizona, put my son back into school there cos I tried putting him into school here, public school at Kennedy,
RB: Okay
LVD: He went for 2 months, we tried it but he had such a hard time.

But later she says they have been here since September.

RB: We don’t want to cause a lot of trouble. How long have you been here?
LVD: We’ve only been here since September. We moved up here in September, [for?] my daughter to go to BYU-I

JJ was taken out of class on September 22 ish...

Now I'm really wondering how the DP would go over here in Rexburg. I'm not religious, but can any local Mormons chime in? Is the ultimate judgement up to G*d? Would a local jury be more comfortable handing down a LWOP sentence? Really interesting to think about. MOO.

The laws of the land supersede any doctrine of the church. It is stated as such right in the core teachings of the church.
There should be no leniency whether there are or are not any members of the LDS faith on any future jury

 

[mommacass]

I think I did hear a noise and wondered what it was. iirc, it did sound like such now that you mention it. But why would that happen as this was a phone call, not a skype or FB messenger from my understanding as they said a call from her cell phone and I had assumed straight call vs. others as he said "let me put you on speaker".

Again, would love if there was a document to all the timings of these noises in a transcript. Or... are just a few of us hearing things that aren't there?

I have relistened to the tape. There are several types of sounds, scribbling, crackling, and possible recorder movement. In my own amateur way, I counted approximately 27-30 such sounds. Out of those, my ear (unprofessional!!) counted 11-12 scribbles on a pad. This probably helps nobody; I was just curious to do this for myself. ALL IMO

 

[Forever Young]

I guess this is a question and will admit, maybe it's a rant. WHY do these people talk as though they are living in Bible/ Book of Mormon times? Is it to set themselves apart from us common folks or a superiority thing? Is there something about the verbiage along with the monotone way of speaking? In my opinion, it is really strange and irritating. Is there something I am missing?

IMO, the best comparison I can think of is like hearing a song over and over in your head, only this time, it's religious scriptures and thought, comparable to a obsessive compulsive disorder.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If I drive that way in the next day or so I’ll snap a picture for you.

Thank you so much. Right now, I'm using my imagination of a view at sunrise with the flag in the foreground.

I'm sure it will be touching to so many. I wonder if it will be flying forever at half staff (half staff flags are a symbol of respect, mourning, distress, or, in some cases, a salute MOO)

 

[Tortoise]

From your post

""the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live...""

The brother (AdC) came showing up in Rexburg? I don't recall that... I guess I need to revisit the timeline. Have we discussed that here?

Or is this typical Lori confounding and conflating the visit that AC and sidekick had a trip to visit BB's parent's house etc.

Agree with others that this is going to need a great experienced prosecutor to overcome this Baez type of trial that may be in the future, having all the "squirrels" put forth by the defense.

BBM

You won't find it in the timeline - it's the first time we've heard of it and no one else has said anything about him going there.

IMO she had to invent a threat that would not be on her own phone, in case they said 'show us'. She knew KW's text messages were not threatening so she had to drag up someone who at some point stood up to her for her behavior. As if AdC would have been trying to kill her for life insurance - he wouldn't even be her named beneficiary! (if she ever had a policy)

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Perfect. It is so beautiful. I want everyone here to be able to enjoy it. They look like angels up in the sky.

Since you are in the area, what do you think about the jurors for this trial? Do you think that this crime has had a huge impact on the community? It seems like even the whole state of Idaho has been affected.

It doesn't seem like requesting a change of venue for the next county over would make much difference.

I think it’s hit hard for a lot of us in the community for one reason or another. The impact has forever changed a lot of us.

I don’t think a change of venue will matter or make a difference. There’s people who have followed the case or listen to the news and there’s people who don’t care to listen to the news and follow crime cases. Finding an unbiased jury shouldn’t be a problem.

All jmo

 

[Tortoise]

Did anyone else screen shot snapping? I thought I heard that distinct sound of taking a screen shot more than once.

I'm wondering if it could have been the photographer in the court room.

 

[Countem]

Do you or anyone remember if cadaver dogs or luminal was used int the apartments Or cars for body fluids? I often wonder about that. I don’t remember it being mentioned. If the children were killed in the apartment and were left there for any time There may be some evidence. Even now if they go back, rugs might show signs. A long shot.

I do not recall seeing anything like that reported. I hope that they have done this behind the scenes, though!

 

[Teche]

Dateline interview: MG stated that in Jan 2019 she asked both Chad and Lori why they both didn't divorce and remarry, and MG stated that neither wanted to do that because it would diminish them in the eyes of the church. Something like that. So I guess murder was the only option.[/QUOTE
Yep!

 

[Tortoise]

Your comments equate what many others have stated. Melanie was really concerned about Melanie. From the very first phone call, when Chad and Lori each called her to say she had JJ, Melanie is concerned with what will happen to her, perhaps even more than JJ.

Why not Tylee too? And why was CD's Prior ask Melanie about her relationship with Tylee?
Something tells me that C and Lori will say that Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee. But I don't think it will ever be proven.

I think JP would like to pin the murders on MG and DW.

Difficult now that there is a recording of MG saying to LVD and CD wtte 'you know we discussed him going to KW's house' and there's the both of them saying wtte 'we can't tell you for your safety', but there is that initial call with police in which MG tells police she had JJ, and JP also tried to get in a police interview with MG's son in which he said he had a visit from JJ, but it was ruled to be hearsay for CD's prelim.

There could be something really far-fetched in this when it comes to trial, such as LVD and CD were covering up for MG on the call, and that's why they said something like 'you will be accountable if you turn against us'.

I think that could be JP's strategy. MOO

ETA - remember the only witness to the conversation where LVD said JJ was with AlC on the Monday morning they left the house is DW.

 

[Forever Young]

<snipped for focus>

It must have been during that week she phoned AxC and was told, "you don't want to know where JJ is.....

This part here has always bothered me some. So Melanie says she asked Alex if she wanted to know where JJ is, and he replies that she DOESN'T want to know, and that JJ can't be found.

This makes me think that there must have been some prior conversation before Melanie asked if she wanted to know where JJ is. Then Alex, rather honestly, says no, she doesn't.

It is strange to me that Alex would be so forthcoming with Melanie when what she gets from Lori is "no, no, JJ's safe and happy".

I don't want to read too much in to such a snippet of a peek into the character of Alex Cox, but I find it striking that he automatically doesn't lie in this instance of unguarded conversation with Melanie Gibb.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM Something tells me that C and Lori will say that Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee. But I don't think it will ever be proven.

And therefore, having to admit their guilt just to include MG?

I'm not following that MOO... So what will they say happened in the scenario you are proposing with who/what/where that MG knew that Tylee was killed, dismembered, burned, buried at Chads?

Is that what you are meaning she knew all of that when you say "Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee"?