Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

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I found the police interaction with Alex after shooting Charles extremely odd also, Its also strange that Lori mentioned in a police interview that she had a "police officer friend" Who "told her to file a police report of charles" she also did a podcast with him. Whats even more strange is the friend of Charles who claimed to have heard Lori state over the phone that she was going to destroy Charles just so happens to also be the illustrator of Lori's "police friends" books. Coincidence maybe.
There's no indication so far that Charles' friend GB (actually his Bishop) who had professional ties with JM did anything wrong, was part of Chad's cult or even PAP/AVOW. I wonder if this was the same Bishop that MG confided in upon her return to Arizona after Chad and Lori asked her to lie for them. I'd also like to know what the Bishop thought of Charles' death.
 
But why kill them? Why not just give them away? Abandon them? Anything? Why kill them, duct tape them and burn them? These are people who think that they are Christians?

I am amazed that they believed that they could just say that they were "hidden some undisclosed place" forever... and keep collecting SS for years? Until JJ was supposed to be 21?
 
I tried to figure out what was edited out of Nate's interview with MG. At some point the interview was interrupted by text on the screen: "Melanie says she spoke with police that day and the focus of their investigation turned back to Lori in Rexburg." This was a shortened version of MG's lie to police that she had JJ with her at first but Lori has since come and picked him up. The second text immediately after contained justification: "Lori told Melanie that JJ was in danger, Kay and others were trying to kidnap him and, for Melanie's safety, Lori could not say where he was."
 
I'm adding/replying to my own comment...

On the flip side, if we think that MG and possibly her boyfriend or whoever might have been with her were the ones doing the scribbling and writing during this phone call, that also makes sense.

In the beginning of the phone call MG sounds as if she's reading something and she's seems nervous. She is speaking fast and trying to get certain things out in the conversation (seemingly one-sided) she talks over LV and is not completely listening to what LV is saying at times. Then we notice she becomes a little bit more comfortable and begins to engage in an actual back-and-forth type conversation.

I am adding this because I can't decide which team was doing the writing for the direction or narrative of that phone call.

I believe it's important though because if it was MG and whoever was with her during that call then she had an agenda to protect herself, if it was CD while LV was talking it shows another side of CD and more guilt in my opinion.

Editing to add...Just read a post in regard to differing sounds of writing with certain types of pens...if it were rage type sounds... Then I am leaning towards CD writing the narrative for what LV was saying to MG. Imo

i am a few behind...so this has probably been answered...but Melanie was recording. Take notes later, so you can concentrate on the call!
 
Nate Eaton - Reporter
Many of you have messaged me with questions about the Daybell case - specifically the people involved. Here is a “who’s who” we put together a few weeks ago that might help.

During our coverage of the disappearance and deaths of Tylee Ryan and Joshua “JJ” Vallow, we have reported the names of many family members, friends and public officials. The following is a who’s who of people connected to the case and their relationships. The children had been missing since S...

Edit: It lists the names of her first two husbands.

thanks so much for posting......... super articles to cut and paste for all future reference... even years from now!!!!!
 
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IMO, if she was coached, since she stated that she did this on her own and not at the request of police, she was most likely coached by DW.

Why was she not coached to ask when was the last time Lori spoke with JJ? Or how was Tylee doing at BYU-I?

I still think she was coached...might have been "modified with LE" so it didn't sound like coaching...

BUT why in heavens name would she say "Al, your brother"... qualifying Al's identity to Lori herself??? No way.

I think that part of that coaching was to know when Lori started to realize she might be taping or was coached, Melanie would have been instructed to back off.... and ..... voila.... scriptures!!!

This was probably a default in all sorts of difficult discussions or communications with these folks.
 
This a great example of what will get Lori—her constantly shifting stories. She does think well on her feet and she quickly spews out seemingly reasonable answers, but she doesn’t remember what she said yesterday. I bet there is an analyst somewhere noting all of her contradictions and inconsistencies.

This is going to be a significant piece of the State's case, in my opinion. She is really quick on her feet with those "seemingly reasonable answers".. She probably used this technique constantly--to get what she wanted, and to cut people (children) down, to cover her butt.

An entire book can be written about her lies, and constant contradictions.

I think even she will be surprised, with how much will be collected, and used against her!!!
 
He was addicted. Codependent relationship. My heart goes out to his family, who just watched the spiral and couldn't do anything to help him.

If you read about addictive relationships, they actually affect the brain, flooding the receptors with endorphins, when there is the "euphoric" high of making up. It can be as addictive as heroin. And just as deadly.

Having to painfully see a loved one in such a codependency with a partner with severe psychological issues, i feel I understand just how hard it can be. I keep thinking that Kay knows this so well, and she will have to feel that burden forever.

I constantly get sick and sad when thinking about how Charles suffered...over and over again.
 
Good question. One thing that happened was, after her near death experience, she thought God had singled her out for a special role in His plan for The End of The World. She was presenting herself (I think sincerely, but others disagree) as a totally changed woman, far more spiritual, far closer to God now.

Lori is a narcissists in my opinion, and what better way is there to be ok with your horrible deeds than to actually believe a God thinks you are good! She might think she is sincere, but she uses religion as shield! It blocks all the bad that she does! Moo
 
I used to think the text to Tammy about shooting a raccoon and so on was partly to establish an excuse for the sound of a gunshot used to kill Tylee. Now that we know her condition at burial, this seems unlikely, begging the question of why he felt the need to report shooting a raccoon. The larger question is where was Tylee dismembered? There is no word about evidence in the barn — and there would be plenty.

remains one of my biggest mysteries as well.... where and who did the horrifying things to Tylee's body?? I just don't see our creeps being this skilled....
 
One piece of supporting evidence: CV, who knew LV much better than do any of us, believed she was sincere.

I know folks here think MG and MP were in on a money-driven "scam." My opinion is that they weren't, but that they were -- at least at some point and to some extent -- persuaded on CD's beliefs. Unless they're lying, they absolutely believe Lori is sincere.

To me, it looks like, until her Rexburg visit, MG largely shared LV's beliefs. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please correct me. But if I'm right about MG's pre-Rexburg ideas, do folks think she, too, was in on the scam? What would have been her part? If she wasn't, it would seem she was sincere. And my strong impression is that she -- who knows LV and CD much better than we do -- feels, just as CV did, that both are sincere (though mislead by The Adversary). JMO.

I don't know what they believed as far as Chad & Co's teachings and with how much conviction. What I primarily concern myself with is whether they knew the following were illegal acts: murder, attempted murder, concealment/alteration/destruction of evidence, desecration of remains, lying to police, collecting monies on behalf of others for caretaking when those others are dead and they know it (i.e. theft and fraud).

Their actions make it abundantly clear that they do. They hid their acts, lied to authorities in multiple states, lied to their friends, family, and associates, and fled justice.

So, at least for me, the other beliefs are beside the point.

"Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!' "

- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland


We don't have to go through the looking glass or even learn all the stories about what happens on the other side. We simply have to remind these particular outlaws that, while they might enjoy and profit from frolicking around in their little Wonderland, they still actually live on the other side with all of us, as once did TR, JJ, TD, CV, and JAR.

And on this side, we don't permit murder.
 
HaHaHa! This reminds of something I read in his blog. He was talking about his visions that instructed him to move to Idaho and he saw a split in a path. The Idaho path was full activity and opportunity. I would say so!

Good one. I guess Chad was tired of his boring life, dull wife. He wanted more "activity" in his life. He has that.

Reminds me of a Chinese curse, "May your life be filled with interesting times".
 
I don't know what they believed as far as Chad & Co's teachings and with how much conviction. What I primarily concern myself with is whether they knew the following were illegal acts: murder, attempted murder, concealment/alteration/destruction of evidence, desecration of remains, lying to police, collecting monies on behalf of others for caretaking when those others are dead and they know it (i.e. theft and fraud).

Their actions make it abundantly clear that they do. They hid their acts, lied to authorities in multiple states, lied to their friends, family, and associates, and fled justice.

So, at least for me, the other beliefs are beside the point.

"Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!' "

- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland


We don't have to go through the looking glass or even learn all the stories about what happens on the other side. We simply have to remind these particular outlaws that, while they might enjoy and profit from frolicking around in their little Wonderland, they still actually live on the other side with all of us, as once did TR, JJ, TD, CV, and JAR.

And on this side, we don't permit murder.
I actually have this Lewis Carroll quote on my fridge. Excellent point.
 
I had a few moments while waiting in the doctor's office to collect my thoughts and write the following essay:

Lessons from the Casey Anthony Trial


At this point we are essentially in a waiting game to see what the next moves will be by the prosecution. It appears likely charges will eventually be filed relating to either or both deaths of spouses Tammy and Charles. We simply don’t have any notion what evidence has been gathered relating to those potential homicides. As far as considering the deaths of Tylee and J.J., though, we have enough facts already to convince me we will almost certainly see charges brought for conspiracy to commit murder against both Chad and Lori in the near future.

Some people here have expressed concerns as to whether the prosecution will have enough evidence to successfully bring murder charges, reasoning that Alex Cox will be a convenient scapegoat who obviously is unable to defend himself or counter any claims. This is fair commentary and one need only look back to the trial of Casey Anthony to see some disturbing parallels. You’ll recall that Jose Baez shocked everyone when he opened his case claiming that Caylee Anthony had accidentally drowned in the family pool a full month before she was reported missing:

BAEZ: "How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing? That's insane, that's bizarre... The answer is actually relatively simple. She never was missing. Caylee Anthony died on June 16, 2008 when she drowned in her family's swimming pool. … After Caylee died, Casey did what she's been doing all her life, hiding her pain, going into that dark corner and pretending that she does not live in the situation that she's living in... it all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately and it escalated,"

Baez also claimed that Casey Anthony's father, George Anthony, found the body in the backyard pool and helped dispose of the body. The defense lawyer even suggested George Anthony planted evidence to implicate his daughter and deflect suspicion from himself.

"What makes this case unique is the family that it happened to. You will hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional, you will hear about ugly things, secret things, things that people don't speak about."

In my opinion, this is practically a road map for the defense to use for Lori and Chad. One of the jurors in the Anthony trial, Jennifer Ford, explained their acquittal as being premised on the prosecution’s inability to prove how Casey died. To her, the cockamamie story Baez told seemed more logical than the prosecution theory, which was admittedly nonspecific and thin. Here's how Ms. Ford explained her view:

"I'm not saying I believe the defense. Obviously, it wasn't proven so I'm not taking that and speculating at all. But it's easier for me logically to get from point A to point B" via the defense argument.”

In the Anthony trial the prosecution was able to put George Anthony on the stand to deny the shocking claims Baez made in his opening statement. Nevertheless, the prosecution never recovered from the inability to prove definitively how Casey died and I believe avoiding this defense trap will be critical to convicting Chad and Lori here.

A good defense attorney will likely play the “cult” card and claim that both Chad and Lori fervently believed the kids were possessed and their souls in jeopardy. It follows that the defense may argue that neither Chad nor Lori had any idea that Alex might harm the children. A clever attorney may even make the outrageous claim that Alex tearfully came forward to say that Tylee’s death was an accident or that she even killed herself, thus setting up the “Casey Anthony” defense that all the lies and dysfunctional behavior by Chad and Lori were merely misplaced reactions to what Alex told them, influenced by their bizarro beliefs.

J.J.’s subsequent death two weeks later definitely represents an exponentially greater complication for the story, but I believe the defense will try to spin it as another “accident” whereby Alex inadvertently precipitated a fatal overdose. We don’t know if the State will have more evidence about the precise cause of death, but given the length of time the bodies were buried it is possible that there simply won’t be sufficient evidence to prove how Tylee and J.J. died.

How, then, does the State avoid the missteps that led to Casey Anthony’s acquittal? I have some thoughts for what they are worth:

1) The prosecution must unload both barrels on Alex Cox as a murderer. They should convene several mock juries or shadow juries to test the most effective means to persuade the jury as to the fact murder occurred. The prosecution gets to go first, which is an incredible advantage if used properly. Many of my clients have utilized mock and shadow juries and have changed their presentation accordingly.

2) The State should file Motions in Limine at the start of trial to try and get judicial assistance to limit speculation or unfounded claims like those advanced by Baez in the Anthony trial.

3) All proof should be designed to reinforce the theory of conspiracy. This is the law of Idaho and it should be woven into the presentation of evidence explicitly:

CHAPTER 17 - CONSPIRACIES

18-1701. CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY DEFINED. If two (2) or more persons combine or conspire to commit any crime or offense prescribed by the laws of the state of Idaho, and one (1) or more of such persons does any act to effect the object of the combination or conspiracy, each shall be punishable upon conviction in the same manner and to the same extent as is provided under the laws of the state of Idaho for the punishment of the crime or offenses that each combined to commit.
In this case there is overwhelming evidence that Alex was a follower – not the leader. All his activities, movements and behaviors were coordinated with Lori and Chad. From September through December he was part and parcel with Lori and Chad and the prosecution should present them as co-conspirators.

I would hope during their opening statement the prosecution will highlight with video, audio and static boards the extent of lies told by both Chad and Lori and characterize these lies as furtherance of the Cox/Daybell/Vallow conspiracy. The more they tie the proof to this being the actions of a trio, the more likely any attempts to use the “Casey Anthony” approach will fail.

NOTE: Regarding Shadow Juries: I participated in a major civil case with multiple defendants only to have one of the defendants suddenly negotiate a settlement at the end of the first week of trial. It was always a mystery why this occurred when it did but almost six years later I was reading Trial Diplomacy Journal and happened across an article written by the attorney who represented that defendant. The article revealed that the defense in that case had assembled a shadow jury and took over the top floor of the local Holiday Inn where they housed their jury secretly. Unbeknownst to us, the court reporter was delivering daily copy to the defense at the hotel at 6 pm every day and the shadow jury listened to all the testimony read by actors playing the parts of the attorneys, judge and witnesses in a makeshift courtroom. Each day's trial was reenacted late into the night and the shadow jury's reactions and impressions were dissected by two psychologists to learn how the evidence was being received. By the end of the week they reached the conclusion that they were likely to be hit by an eight-figure punitive award based on the shadow jury's reaction and, thus, they elected to settle the case for whatever we would accept (a much lower figure, of course).

Thank you for taking the time to think through and write this. A repeat of the Casey Anthony trial is one of my big fears about this case* - it only takes one juror who falls for the chaos/confusion introduced by a defense attorney who takes the case down a few irrelevant or vastly speculative side alleys to prevent a conviction and if the rest are not solid in their own abilities to resist, a whole jury can get taken in and actually produce an acquittal. (*ETA - by "case" I am thinking not only of those charges currently in process, but also those under investigation and likely to be placed.)

And nothing draws a defense attorney willing to do that like a high profile case with a spectacular sideshow as this case might offer with the odd beliefs and somewhat secret fringe groups.

Some here have opined that this, more than most, should be a death penalty case; however, I have concerns about that. I think that sometimes, even those jurors who say in advance that they could impose a death penalty if warranted actually raise the standard of proof required of the prosecution when the death penalty is involved - and particularly if the defendant can be made to appear vulnerable or appealing in some way (such as attractive female, young, confused). In such a case, jurors may project certain characteristics upon the defendant and/or apply a standard of judgment which essentially becomes not "beyond a reasonable doubt," but "beyond any doubt, whether reasonable, unreasonable, or completely farfetched but in-some-imagined-world remotely possible."

It seems that seeking a death penalty places a greater burden upon jurors as each of those jurors recognizes the personal role he or she will play in the killing of a human being, which for the vast majority of us is abhorrent, except in the most certain and heinous of cases. Even where the conviction is separate from the sentencing, when the death penalty looms, I think this is so.

I personally think it is a good thing that each considers his or her own conscience when implementing this unique power of the state as a collective jury - those are EXACTLY the instruments needed to keep the power of the state reined in to reasonable and fair limits; however, in the quiet and order of a courtroom, it is easy for individuals to forget that the collective jury is not only judge of the defendant, it is also the last in line as protector of the rest of the community - most of them innocent people (and some of them vulnerable innocent people) living their lives outside that quiet order of the courtroom and dependent upon the laws as protection where chaos and disorder have wider range. So, these two roles have to be given their proper weight, and the standard of reasonable doubt is the tool for doing so.

When and if you have time, I would be very interested in reading your - and others - thoughts on this.
 
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Just a few thoughts on new information that came out of CD's prelim.

(I've made a transcript of the officer's bodycam footage and posted it in the media thread here.)

On the day police went to do the welfare check (Nov 26th) LVD mentioned moving several times, despite confirming that Tylee goes to BYU-I and lives with her -

"and so I was going to move back to Arizona"
"But I’m gonna go back to Arizona so I can put him back into special needs school, he couldn’t do his school here..."
"My brother and his friend, probably, they’re moving"
"well the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me..."
"well that’s why I’m moving back. I’m moving and I’m not going to be in a place, I’m going to live with my friend Melanie, don’t tell..."

I think she hasn't quite got her story straight in her own mind before they visit about whether to mention that she is moving (she starts out saying "I was going to move"), and then when she obviously decides to tell them she's moving, the reason for the move - if it's for JJ's schooling, or because her brother is trying to kill her.

She's also not sure if AdC is still trying to kill her or if that was only while CV was alive, and avoids ever mentioning AdC by name -

"I’ve had to move around a lot, one of my brothers is trying to kill me, not the brother that lives here obviously, he’s kind of my protector [laugh] my other brother was in with my husband who was trying to kill me for my $2million life insurance policy."
"the reason I’m moving is cos the brother that was going to kill me that we found emails and texts with my ex-husb, my husband at the time, came showing up here, so he found out where I live..."
"after my husband passed I found emails and texts between them that they were planning all this stuff, to get rid of me."

Also I noticed she refers to finding texts between AdC and CV, after CV's death. That suggests to me she managed to keep CV's phone.

The amount of laughter during the conversation does not sound like someone in fear for her life. Officers really should have training in matching body language with what is being reported to them, imo. And what the heck - the biggest red flag is her saying that CV changed his beneficiary, acrimoniously, and died!! Didn't they think, oh, so why didn't he want his wife on the policy? I get that they went back with search warrants so they didn't effectively drop the ball, but I don't think they left the house thinking anything was hinky. They were apologizing for bothering her, they knew she had been under surveillance for a jeep connected with a shooting and that JJ had not been seen in that month, they knew all of KW's concerns, and that Det Hermosillo had passed on his suspicions about CD and that LVD was also not admitting CD was anyone other than her brother's friend!

This doesn't sit right with me either - just for the fact that she is using it in a persuasive way -

..."she wanted us to adopt him. Which we did. We’ve loved him and taken care"..



---

In the phone call recorded by MG she only asks about JJ.

What's interesting, from a prosecution standpoint, is that LVD says on the call "I'm sorry that you don't want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children." I'm not sure why MG doesn't pick up this cue and ask if Tylee is also 'missing'. She has said she never really believed the BYU story, and that she was accusing LVD and CD of murder, in her round-about way, in this call:-

From Dateline - MG: “It was a very unnerving phone call. Now I was confronting them that they were potential killers.”

It shows anyway, IMO, that LVD can't say she thought one thing about Tylee (being older and more independent) and another about JJ - she's put them together in this sentence.

MOO
 
Good one. I guess Chad was tired of his boring life, dull wife. He wanted more "activity" in his life. He has that.

Reminds me of a Chinese curse, "May your life be filled with interesting times".
Well, he did state his life had two parts.

The first was being married to a good woman and having five children.

The second is being in prison for the rest of his life. Bet he never saw that vision!
 
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