Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I personally FEEL that LV, CD, AC, MP, MG -- all sincere in their beliefs. From what I've read, I'm alone here in that, which surprises me.

Also, if we're going to refer to the group as a cult, MOO, we should indicate what we mean by that term.

I for one do think that, with possibly the exception of Alex, all were sincere in their beliefs. The key is childhood indoctrination, which is pretty hard to shake even with high intelligence and education because it was ingrained before your own ego is formed and you can logically decide whether the teaching is true or not.

Cult generally means a group whose teachings deviate from the orthodox version of a religion. This particular group's teachings deviated from orthodox LDS teachings. MOO
 
Cult generally means a group whose teachings deviate from the orthodox version of a religion. MOO
Yes, that's one accepted definition. Note that it has nothing to do with the kind of control of members and near-worship of leaders that, IMO, we normally associate with the term.

Thank you for spelling that out, Forever Young. My only concern is that we be clear what we mean. And you are.
 
Last edited:
Is there the teeny tiniest chance Lori didn't know they were buried in Chad's back forty? Opinions please.

What is Chads ‘back forty’? I’m still catching up and most likely haven’t come across that yet. TIA
 
What is Chads ‘back forty’? I’m still catching up and most likely haven’t come across that yet. TIA

IMO she knew per her calling Chad while the property is being searched ...she knew( MM must of heads her up) ..she said on purpose statements like -are they seizing stuff again- and should I pray...CD laughs..talk to Mark Means. Should I pray might of meant do I tell .

MOO
She makes me sick. He makes me sick too
But she is a real waste of space . DP if ever there should be one ..on her!
 
That’s a good surmise. Do you think that it was done right there at the burn pit? Imagine the probability of discovery. Even at night, the area is quite open.
I dread to think what tool they used for dismembering. Evidently, dismemberment is a very aggressive undertaking.
 
Some things I have been reflecting on recently. Warning, may contain some disturbing details as it's covering the awful crimes. I don't mean to be insensitive in any way and it pains me to write it, but I'm just discussing the facts of the case which are very sensitive. Please skip if you don't want to read further.

First, a little about cell pings. I'm no expert, and am only going based on what I have read, so take it for what it is, my understanding only. Cell phones ping and provide time and location data only at certain times, namely:

1) Whenever the phone is first powered on.
2) every 8 hours or so (2-3 times a day) it makes contact with the carrier.
3) whenever the phone receives or sends a phone call, text message, email or other data.
4) whenever the phone moves into an area covered by a different cell tower and therefore receives a stronger signal or connection.

With this in mind, cell phone ping data only gives an approximation of times when the phone is in a given location.

Tylee was last seen alive on 9/8/2019 during a day trip to Yellowstone. According to Chad's probable cause affidavit:

https://localnews8.b-cdn.net/2020/06/Chad-Daybell-Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause.pdf

They returned to Rexburg (and presumably Lori's house) about 8:37 PM. Alex remains there at Lori's apartment for an hour until 9:35, whereupon he then goes to the nearby Maverick and is there for 10 minutes (9:43-9:53). I believe he was purchasing fuel. Furthermore, since this wasn't a fuel stop on their way home from Yellowstone, but rather something that happened after they had already been home for awhile, then I postulate it was fuel which would later be used as an accelerant to burn evidence and/or TR's body. I believe this might also indicate she had already been killed by this point. Which would also mean that it was either Lori or Alex (or both) who killed her. What happened that night which caused them to turn on Tylee and take her life? Was it premeditated, or a spur of the moment decision? I always found it odd that Lori's own daughter, Tylee, disappeared before JJ.

After leaving Maverick's, Alex then returns to Lori's and cell pings place him there at 10:44 and 11:15. At 11:44 Alex is at his own apartment and remains there for at least an hour until 12:44 the following morning. The next phone pings place him back at Lori's between 2:42 and 3:37 in the morning. The amount of time Alex spends back and forth between his and Lori's place might suggest trying to clean up a crime scene (I believe Lori's place), hide evidence, and possibly even dismember TR and get her body ready for transport (it would require two or more strong people to carry her 160 lb body otherwise).

Between 4:37 and 8:59 Alex is back at his apartment, probably to sleep. I'm going to venture a guess that sometime during the night he contacted Chad to inform him of the situation and ask for help in taking care of her body. This based on the number of phone pings (most of the pings would likely come from sending or receiving calls or messages).

Chad would have known when Tammy and other family members were leaving the house for work and would have relayed this information to Alex, letting him know when it was safe to come over. He would also then be able to start getting things ready on his property to dispose of Tylee - gathering the wood, etc.

Alex is then quickly able to get to Chad's place by 9:21 a.m., another indication he had Tylee's body all ready to go from the night prior, likely dismembered and in totes or other containers for ease of hiding and carrying to and from his vehicle. With (presumably) fuel purchased the night before acting as an accelerant, and wood from Chad's place, they attempt to burn the body and other evidence for the next hour or so.

At 10:39 Alex' phone pings still put him at the property. Within 8 minutes though a ping places him in St. Anthony at 10:47 and again back at Chad's place by 10:57. What was the purpose of making the quick trip to St. Anthony and back, or is it an error in the data? I suspect it's correct and he may have run to the nearest store for more fuel for the fire, or perhaps other items (a green bucket?) needed to carry out their evil work. From 10:57 to 11:39 he's back on Chad's property. All told Alex has only about 2 1/2 hours to try and destroy Tylee's body and evidence with fire and then dig a hole and bury whatever can't be destroyed. There's no possible way he acted alone, and Chad was most certainly there helping him every step of the way. And even still they both had to have been working feverishly to accomplish all of that as fast as humanly possible given the time constraints. This is another reason I believe Tylee had already been dismembered prior to getting to Chad's place. It also explains why her body wasn't completely burned and destroyed in the fire - it would have taken too long and drawn too much attention, so they got her remains out of the still burning fire/embers (probably using the green bucket, which was partially melted due to the heat) and buried everything as is.

By 11:52 Alex had left and was back in Rexburg to grab a bite to eat, probably shower and clean up (he would have been hot, sweaty, dirty, had trace evidence on his body and clothing, etc.), and finish getting rid of evidence. By 11:53 Chad had also finished up and sent a text with a cover story to his wife, attempting to explain away the usage of the fire pit and freshly overturned earth in the pet cemetery. A few minutes later, at 11:56, Chad again sends a text to Tammy, this time excusing himself to take a shower from the labors of the day and create an alibi to get away from the scene of the crime.

Fast forward 8 days to 9/17/2019 when JJ was last seen on video:


In the video of JJ playing with a neighbor kid, JJ appears to say something like "Get the h***/*advertiser censored** out of here!" to which the neighbor kid replies "Don't say that word - it's a bad word!" I know it's been speculated before that maybe he's heard that phrase from when Charles was shot and killed, but I'm wondering now if he actually picked it up more recently, say from the night Tylee was killed. What if he walked into something he wasn't supposed to see and Lori or Chad yelled that at him. Being autistic he may not have understood what he had just witnessed, but being yelled at in such a way stuck in his head and he was acting out on it.

Neighbors may have been noticing and questioning disturbing things about JJ's behaviors to Lori, and she'd have to blame it on his autism or tell them it was because he was a 'drug baby', all the while he was becoming more and more unmanageable for her. Especially since Tylee was no longer there to rely on as a babysitter. The next day she interviews a nanny about taking care of JJ, informing her of some of the problems she will likely encounter. She hires the nanny who cares for JJ on 9/19/2019. During the nanny's care JJ seems fine for awhile but then appears to have a nervous breakdown. Says she, "He started crying and screaming. I tried to calm him down, distract him with a show, tell him how sometimes people need a break, and how he needs to share. He threw the chair from their wooden table down, flipped the ottoman over by their couch, and then ran upstairs, I let him cry for a bit, hoping he would calm down, but he didn’t." Lori came home with Alex and a "friend they picked up from the airport" (MG?) and the nanny explained the situation to them.

Missing Idaho kid's nanny recounts experience with Lori Vallow days before disappearance

We know MG stayed with them that weekend, and Lori apparently kept pointing out JJ's behaviors to her trying to convince her that JJ was now in fact a zombie. I feel like Lori was searching for some reason to be able to justify in her own mind taking the life of an innocent child (LDS doctrine teaches that children under the age of 8 are completely innocent of any sin and are covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ, therefore JJ would not be held accountable for any wrongdoing).

On the night of 9/22/2019 JJ was again "acting up" and so Alex took him to his apartment. Later that night, sometime before midnight, Alex returns with JJ apparently asleep (using his medication to induce sleep?) and puts him to bed in Lori's room. I believe that sometime during the night or early morning hours is when they killed him, probably through suffocation (he was bound and gagged with duct tape and covered in plastic bags, and again bound with even more duct tape). I believe they (and I do believe it was both Lori and Alex) did this to keep it as quiet as possible. They again would have had to contact Chad sometime that night or early in the morning and inform him of the situation and enlist his aid.

JJ was small enough that Alex could carry him by himself (he already had earlier that night) without dismembering him. He just needed to get him over to Chad's place early in the morning, before MG and DW woke up, but after Tammy and family had gone to work. Pings from his phone place him at Chad's place between 9:55 and 10:12. Since this accounts for only 17 minutes then Chad must have prepared the grave in advance of their arrival. Either that or Alex dropped him off and left Chad to take care of the details later. I wish we had more details of their movements that day. And where is Chad's cell data - surely that would be a treasure trove of information? Whatever the case, it is apparent they decided to simply bury JJ. They likely realized it took too much time with Tylee and drew too much attention. Still, digging up a grave is not an easy or quick endeavor without the aid of some machinery. And I found myself drawn to the detail given in court by the FBI agent about the roots of the tree and how they had been severed. He didn't go into detail, but it must have caught his attention enough to warrant mentioning it. I wonder if Chad used a small excavator, tractor, or something to dig the grave. Digging it by hand, and chopping through tree roots with a shovel, is not easy. How long was he out there for?

Anyways, those are some of my wandering thoughts at this time. I'm glad they were found and that the wheels of justice can begin their work. It is hard for me to dwell upon the details of this case, and I can only imagine what the victims families must be going through. I pray they may find peace and comfort at this time and in the days ahead.

Excellent analysis! Very plausible. I would only add that Tylee could have spent the night in the back of Alex's truck and never in either apartment after dying.
 
Yes, that's one accepted definition. Note that it has nothing to do with the kind of control of members and near-worship of leaders that, IMO, we normally associate with the term.

Thank you for spelling that out, Forever Young. My only concern is that we be clear what we mean. And you are.

I personally think that in this day and age the term cult is outdated. Every religion is the offshoot of its predecessor, by whom they are labeled a cult. I take it for granted that a component of all religious groups is thinking alike and control of the tribe.
 
I personally FEEL that LV, CD, AC, MP, MG -- all sincere in their beliefs. From what I've read, I'm alone here in that, which surprises me.

Also, if we're going to refer to the group as a cult, MOO, we should indicate what we mean by that term.

Sincerity does not preclude someone acting selfishly.

Even Angels were tossed Out of heaven.
 
An excellent example of why women are important in law enforcement. LVD, swinging her cleavage around, and twirling her hair would have been so obvious to a woman, it is unlikely to have been quite as effective of a distraction.

from a % stand point, with estranged spouses, it is frequently the man who is the aggressor. remember LV(D) is 5'6" and weighs 125 lbs, so to the responding officers, she would not look like a threat. there were 4 living people at the scene: LV(D), AC, TR and JJ and I imagine (?) that none of them said anything, but that uncle AC saved them. Now, in retrospect, we all know a lot more .... IMHO.
 
I had a few moments while waiting in the doctor's office to collect my thoughts and write the following essay:
Lessons from the Casey Anthony Trial
Thanks for this. That trial was a travesty of justice. One thought: I don't think the tactic of saying the kids were killed accidentally by Alex will fly nor even be advanced because there's too much in the record from Lori and Chad's mouths that nullify it. Case-in-point: The recorded call with MG , where Lori says JJ is "safe and happy" and that "even Alex" doesn't know where the kids are. Lori and Chad tell MG that it's for his own protection, so that he doesn't accidently blab and bring harm to them and him. Chad literally interupts Lori to add that last part. Of course, they were two months dead by this point.
 
Chad has four felony charges. Who thinks that the DA will cut him a deal, to flip on LVD for pinning murder on her?

I would be perfectly fine with CD serving 2 or 3 years for LVD to get the death penalty.
Not me. First, I don't think either will flip. And second, I don't think the state would ever offer him that kind of deal even if he did. I'm hoping for Murder 1 all the way, for both.
 
Worse than that, serial killers with a RELIGIOUS EXCUSE. Saying they are doing the Lord's work....UGH.
I don’t even think religion should be brought into their plan anymore. It was more of a scam using fear and telling people they are part of a special group preparing for the end of the world, so they should leave their children behind (or kill them) and get rid of their spouses for an insurance pay off and live the high Life while waiting for the end of the world. And then think of this. What kind of sick minded people bought into this? Let’s see, there was Alex Cox, Melanie Gibb, David Warrick,
Melani and Ian Powloski and Zulema Pastenes. What were their plans for the future as part of this small group? I’m sure the murders weren’t yet over. They all need to be watched closely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
138
Guests online
2,225
Total visitors
2,363

Forum statistics

Threads
602,231
Messages
18,137,222
Members
231,279
Latest member
skoorboh54
Back
Top