Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[acutename]

I agree, with the way you broke it down, there could definitely be a stratagy there. I wonder if it's for the current charges, or ammo for the future.
Its weird how he almost begged her to state that she and LV were "as close as sisters". It is such a subjective term, I wonder why it was so important.

'cuz one of Lori's sisters wound up dead?

 

[acutename]

This thing about wanting a specific time in order to have an alibi is rather odd. The conspiracy to conceal was a long term issue, not just a specific moment in time like a murder would be. She isn’t being tried for murder but MM acts like the prosecution should give a time for the concealment charge. It actually was ongoing from the time of death until the children were found.

to me the concealment implies knowledge- how can you tamper and conceal if you do not know? Makes no sense, and knowledge, IMO, implies more because think of the possibilities- they mysteriously find the children dead and then tamper with the bodies and conceal them? How would they know about the bodies and try to conceal them if they did not know how they died? would be a very convoluted explanation IMHO.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree, with the way you broke it down, there could definitely be a stratagy there. I wonder if it's for the current charges, or ammo for the future.
Its weird how he almost begged her to state that she and LV were "as close as sisters". It is such a subjective term, I wonder why it was so important.

In my opinion it's how they play the courtroom game of getting something in that wouldn't normally be allowed in, and it flopped in any event.

You want to establish that if LV wouldn't confide in the brother who followed her from State to State like a lamb and even gave up his job to be live in the house next door to her, she is unlikely to have told anyone at all. So because brother is dead you establish a sister who can give an opinion on how LV would treat people as close as her brother. That's why, imo, he tried twice to get MG to say they were as close as sisters, the second time showing his frustration with her when she still wouldn't give him the answer he wanted. "Is there a reason why you're not saying yes?" - asked with a snarl.

I imagine he would have replied to the objection with something along the lines of 'I think I should be allowed to ask the surrogate 'sister' her opinion since the equally close brother isn't available to the defense'. It was a long build up to trying to get her to qualify on the stand to give that opinion.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

In my opinion it's how they play the courtroom game of getting something in that wouldn't normally be allowed in, and it flopped in any event.

You want to establish that if LV wouldn't confide in the brother who followed her from State to State like a lamb and even gave up his job to be live in the house next door to her, she is unlikely to have told anyone at all. So because brother is dead you establish a sister who can give an opinion on how LV would treat people as close as her brother. That's why, imo, he tried twice to get MG to say they were as close as sisters, the second time showing his frustration with her when she still wouldn't give him the answer he wanted. "Is there a reason why you're not saying yes?" - asked with a snarl.

I imagine he would have replied to the objection with something along the lines of 'I think I should be allowed to ask the surrogate 'sister' her opinion since the equally close brother isn't available to the defense'. It was a long build up to trying to get her to qualify on the stand to give that opinion.

MOO

Are we talking about the murders here or just concealment of the bodies? Is JP's theory that Lori killed her children without anyone's knowedge and buried them in Chad's backyard, while carrying Alex's phone? Or did she kill them on her own and then enlisted Alex and Chad to bury the bodies? It's very difficult to believe that Alex wasn't involved in the murders. If he was, then Chad was too. Why would Lori and Alex only involve Chad in the concealment part? It's not like they couldn't find another place for burial. IMO the police will find signs of premeditation that will bring everyone down.

It would be difficult for Lori to do everything on her own.

I wouldn't be difficult for Alex to do everything on his own, but he wouldn't use Chad's backyard.

If Lori and Alex did it together, they wouldn't use Chad's backyard.

 

[GRT]

All MOO

It has been reported that the prosecutor used to be an LDS bishop.

As to plea offerings, I would assume would not be public record and would be requested/approved to be sealed when submitted.

I don't see that this order was requested, only that the judge issued such.

Do you have any idea why a judge would issue an order of that sort without either of the attorneys requesting it?

Would that indicate that the judge is concerned about a deal made between the prosecution and defense?

But, doesn't a judge have the ability not to approve deals?

I really don't know, but I would like to know because this strikes me as odd.

JMOO

 

[Tortoise]

Are we talking about the murders here or just concealment of the bodies? Is JP's theory that Lori killed her children without anyone's knowedge and buried them in Chad's backyard, while carrying Alex's phone? Or did she kill them on her own and then enlisted Alex and Chad to bury the bodies? It's very difficult to believe that Alex wasn't involved in the murders. If he was, then Chad was too. Why would Lori and Alex only involve Chad in the concealment part? It's not like they couldn't find another place for burial. IMO the police will find signs of premeditation that will bring everyone down.

It would be difficult for Lori to do everything on her own.

I wouldn't be difficult for Alex to do everything on his own, but he wouldn't use Chad's backyard.

If Lori and Alex did it together, they wouldn't use Chad's backyard.

It has to be about the concealment because those were the only charges applicable at the preliminary hearing.

I think he's angling that LV buried her children in CD's yard without CD's knowledge, perhaps not even on the dates when Alex's phone was there. I think he has to point the finger at LV because she said she was hiding her children. He'll have to paint Chad as being gullible and smitten by the very persuasive Miss Vallow.

I don't think he'd have to say LV acted alone, that would be speculative, and they'd say police never investigated anyone else. same old same old, smoke and mirrors. Yes, perhaps he'll say LV used Alex's phone to visit Chad?

I think the stories are going to have to be crazy but that's nothing new in murder trials.

moo

 

[indicolite22]

It has to be about the concealment because those were the only charges applicable at the preliminary hearing.

I think he's angling that LV buried her children in CD's yard without CD's knowledge, perhaps not even on the dates when Alex's phone was there. I think he has to point the finger at LV because she said she was hiding her children. He'll have to paint Chad as being gullible and smitten by the very persuasive Miss Vallow.

I don't think he'd have to say LV acted alone, that would be speculative, and they'd say police never investigated anyone else. same old same old, smoke and mirrors. Yes, perhaps he'll say LV used Alex's phone to visit Chad?

I think the stories are going to have to be crazy but that's nothing new in murder trials.

moo

I don't think anyone would believe that the bodies were buried in Chad's backyard without his knowledge, considering that Alex's phone pinging there for 2.5 hours overlapped with Chad's bonfire and racoon burial. Chad must have seen the person that was carrying Alex's phone. Even if that wasn't a problem, why would Alex and Lori pick Chad's yard (a space overlooked by neighbors and passers by) for burial? And how come that Chad didn't notice disturbed ground?

 

[salberg7]

But she has her God on her side. Not God that loves the world, the one who loves only 144,000 people of her and her lover's choosing. And people believed this nonsense?

No, Lori did, imo. How can any mother justify the murder of her children in the name of *any* God? No one took it as far as LV. This is delusional behavior - LV needs a mental evaluation and I’d be surprised if her attorney doesn’t have one in the works. Unless of course, his client refuses to be evaluated because like most sociopaths/psychopaths Lori doesn’t care if anyone agrees with her. They are devoid of normal feelings. In this relationship (CD/LV) however, I can’t say who is the most delusional. It’s worse than an episode of “killer couples” as imo this involves murdered children.

 

[salberg7]

I wonder if the Atty's & presiding Judge have read through LVD's previous court orders from Tx & Az & discovered that she does not follow court orders at any given opportunity. She has a significant history of distorting facts (even to the courts) and despite being caught she just packs up & moves to yet another State. Maybe this is one way to put everything on the record so there will be no way to dance her way out of saying she never agreed or they never offered a plea deal (I just do not trust her at all). MOO

That’s why bail was set so high for Lori, imo.
Chad doesn’t have a leg to stand on - dead children were found on his property.

As someone just stated, if this trial wasn’t so sensationalized they would be charged with murder already. So disappointing to me they haven’t been charged yet but it is what it is after all. I’ll just have to be patient.

 

[salberg7]

I have said all along during questioning that JP is alluding to the fact that if LV didn’t tell her very close brother AC where the children were (per the secret recorded phone call) and she didn’t tell her “sister” MG either....that LVD didn’t tell CD either. Her husband. IMO that’s where JP was going with this. He made it sound incestuous (Regarding AC) though because he pushed a little TOO hard about closeness with AC.

ETA: It’s crazy, but to me it shows CD defense is going to throw LVD under the bus big time.

I so hope so!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't think anyone would believe that the bodies were buried in Chad's backyard without his knowledge, considering that Alex's phone pinging there for 2.5 hours overlapped with Chad's bonfire and racoon burial. Chad must have seen the person that was carrying Alex's phone. Even if that wasn't a problem, why would Alex and Lori pick Chad's yard (a space overlooked by neighbors and passers by) for burial? And how come that Chad didn't notice disturbed ground?

And the coup de grâce for the case at trial will be playing of the phone call from Lori to Chad while LE has excavators on his property. I hope that LE took a photo right after he left of the views he had been having in his car during such. Instead of being a normal person exclaiming "those idiots are digging up my damn property, those fools!" .. or anything along those lines. Instead, you hear a man that has all his air knocked out of him, he is dejected and well knowing of what is being found by those 50-100 FBI and LE folks in his yard. How can anyone on the jury think anything else. MOO

Do you have any idea why a judge would issue an order of that sort without either of the attorneys requesting it?

Would that indicate that the judge is concerned about a deal made between the prosecution and defense?

But, doesn't a judge have the ability not to approve deals?

I really don't know, but I would like to know because this strikes me as odd.

JMOO

No idea, only what CourtTV folks said in their link that was cited.

 

[acutename]

I don't think anyone would believe that the bodies were buried in Chad's backyard without his knowledge, considering that Alex's phone pinging there for 2.5 hours overlapped with Chad's bonfire and racoon burial. Chad must have seen the person that was carrying Alex's phone. Even if that wasn't a problem, why would Alex and Lori pick Chad's yard (a space overlooked by neighbors and passers by) for burial? And how come that Chad didn't notice disturbed ground?

OK, I do not believe this myself, but just an attempt at an explanation: did CD tell LVD about the raccoon too? And did she ask AC to go help him dig? And then did AC or AC and LVD think: well, there's a pet cemetery, so let's just put a few bodies in there too. Does not explain CD's call to LVD when investigators were digging up his yard, and you do need a real raccoon, but.... I guess for this hypothetical, LVD could have told CD much later.... like after she was extradited (idle speculation).

 

[salberg7]

It has to be about the concealment because those were the only charges applicable at the preliminary hearing.

I think he's angling that LV buried her children in CD's yard without CD's knowledge, perhaps not even on the dates when Alex's phone was there. I think he has to point the finger at LV because she said she was hiding her children. He'll have to paint Chad as being gullible and smitten by the very persuasive Miss Vallow.

I don't think he'd have to say LV acted alone, that would be speculative, and they'd say police never investigated anyone else. same old same old, smoke and mirrors. Yes, perhaps he'll say LV used Alex's phone to visit Chad?

I think the stories are going to have to be crazy but that's nothing new in murder trials.

moo

Very well stated. Makes perfect sense imo.
Throw Lori under the bus.

My concern however is exactly how much is Chad under Lori’s spell? Will he flip on this wife? Who has more to lose here - Chad, imo. Or vice versa, is Chad in control over Lori and certain she will do his bidding and stick to their *plan* or whatever convoluted bond they have together?


If Chad flips, Lori will try for a mental instability defense IF ONLY to have her verdict and/or sentence diminished because imo she is guilty of first degree premeditated murder & will eventually be convicted of it. She may use mental instability as a mitigating factor to hope a jury convicts her of some lesser charge.

I also agree MM is way out of his league here.

 

[roche.analisa]

I agree, with the way you broke it down, there could definitely be a stratagy there. I wonder if it's for the current charges, or ammo for the future.
Its weird how he almost begged her to state that she and LV were "as close as sisters". It is such a subjective term, I wonder why it was so important.

I wonder if it's headed towards some sort of parallel with brother Alex...some kind of, "this is how Lori is with her siblings".

 

[indicolite22]

OK, I do not believe this myself, but just an attempt at an explanation: did CD tell LVD about the raccoon too? And did she ask AC to go help him dig? And then did AC or AC and LVD think: well, there's a pet cemetery, so let's just put a few bodies in there too. Does not explain CD's call to LVD when investigators were digging up his yard, and you do need a real raccoon, but.... (idle speculation).

Only Tylee was buried in the pet cemetery area. Even if Chad sent the raccoon text to Lori (I don't see why), the grave was visible on the satellite photo just a couple of hours later. IMO a raccoon grave would have been much smaller. I just can't imagine deciding to bury a body in someone's yard without fear of being seen by the owner or other people.

Do we know when Tammy and their children (or even neighbors) that could have seen something normally left for work on a Monday morning?

 

[acutename]

Only Tylee was buried in the pet cemetery area. Even if Chad sent the raccoon text to Lori (I don't see why), the grave was visible on the satellite photo just a couple of hours later. IMO a raccoon grave would have been much smaller. I just can't imagine deciding to bury a body in someone's yard without fear of being seen by the owner or other people.

Do we know when Tammy and their children (or even neighbors) that could have seen something normally left for work on a Monday morning?

in my convoluted hypothetical, CD does not need to text LVD about the raccoon- he could just tell her in a phone call or in an in person conversation. She and/or AC could have moved bodies there sometime later. Maybe when everyone was out looking at property or maybe when TD went to visit her parents. The thing that sounds really horrid to me is CD during the "Sweet Melanie" conversation listening to LVD say that the children are in a safe place, etc. The only way CD gets a pass at that point is if he really knows nothing AND he believes that LVD is hiding the children somehow. The other defense problem is if there is any evidence of a connection found between LVD and CD and AC or TD's deaths, CD has a mountain of evidence to surmount to try to maintain ignorance.

 

[lurker042]

I don't think anyone would believe that the bodies were buried in Chad's backyard without his knowledge, considering that Alex's phone pinging there for 2.5 hours overlapped with Chad's bonfire and racoon burial. Chad must have seen the person that was carrying Alex's phone. Even if that wasn't a problem, why would Alex and Lori pick Chad's yard (a space overlooked by neighbors and passers by) for burial? And how come that Chad didn't notice disturbed ground?

You will notice that during the preliminary that no evidence of where CD's phone was during the time that AC's phone was pinged on the property. If CD was shown to be on the property while AC was there then surely that is a damning detail that will come seal the fate of CD.

Also...Edgar Allan Poe and the Tell-tale Heart.
The reason I say that.....
CD parked his car on the long driveway in the back of house. Everyday he needed to walk out the back door to his car. In his direct line of sight...would have been the burial spot for Tylee. Any normal person that had any semblence of a concience would have looked at the very spot everyday knowing full well who was buried there. For months, CD walked out that back door and for months he knew precisely what was buried in his backyard. MOO

I stumbled upon something last Sunday while trying to find a movie to watch on Amazon. What I found truly gave me goosebumps. The parallels to the CD case were just too close to justify any random coincidences. Check out FRAILTY from the year 2001. It stars Bill Paxton, Matthew MacConaughey and Powers Boothe. It has to do with a man that is instructed by god to kill demons posing as humans. He gets the names of the demons from an angel in the form of a list.
Sound familiar?

 

[indicolite22]

in my convoluted hypothetical, CD does not need to text LVD about the raccoon- he could just tell her in a phone call or in an in person conversation. She and/or AC could have moved bodies there sometime later. Maybe when everyone was out looking at property or maybe when TD went to visit her parents.

BBM. IMO Lori would never be able to move bodies alone (especially Tylee), let alone bury them. The property viewing was on Sunday when Tammy and others would be home. The grave was already visible from the air on September 9, so a later burial in the pet cemetery isn't likely.

The thing that sounds really horrid to me is CD during the "Sweet Melanie" conversation listening to LVD say that the children are in a safe place, etc. The only way CD gets a pass at that point is if he really knows nothing AND he believes that LVD is hiding the children somehow. The other defense problem is if there is any evidence of a connection found between LVD and CD and AC or TD's deaths, CD has a mountain of evidence to surmount to try to maintain ignorance.

She would at least provide some details to Chad (even if they were lies) and show some signs that she had contact with the children and was supporting them. To me one of the most damning things was to tell Chad's parents that Lori had no minor children. They weren't just in hiding, she gave them up. She could not reintroduce them later.

 

[mickey2942]

I am still trying to wrap my head around why CD allowed the bodies to be buried in his yard. Why LVD wanted the bodies there.

If LEO had not found the bodies, and actual evidence that the children were dead, they would still be spinning on the original charges against LVD.

 

[indicolite22]

I am still trying to wrap my head around why CD allowed the bodies to be buried in his yard. Why LVD wanted the bodies there.

If LEO had not found the bodies, and actual evidence that the children were dead, they would still be spinning on the original charges against LVD.

That is puzzling to me, too. It has been said a few times that control was the main reason. Without the phone ping data, there would have been no search warrant until this point. Maybe the next owner would allow a cursory search of the property. It's not clear whether the perps were careless or just ignorant to let Alex's location be traced.