Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[Forever Young]

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I stumbled upon something last Sunday while trying to find a movie to watch on Amazon. What I found truly gave me goosebumps. The parallels to the CD case were just too close to justify any random coincidences. Check out FRAILTY from the year 2001. It stars Bill Paxton, Matthew MacConaughey and Powers Boothe. It has to do with a man that is instructed by god to kill demons posing as humans. He gets the names of the demons from an angel in the form of a list.
Sound familiar?

Here is a question to ponder, though I already know the answer.

Can the author of this screenplay be held responsible if a sick mind decides that this is a message for them to go out and do the same thing?

 

[indicolite22]

Or, because it was not planned by 2 or 3 people, and it was the closest proximity to where the murders occurred. It was an emergency solution.

Not buying it. Lori and Alex were in no emergency. Nobody was chasing after them. Some people were even suggesting that they kept the bodies unburied for days (taking them to the storage, etc.). It was Chad who had to choose wisely (=premeditation) when he'd allow for the burial to not be seen by his family or neighbors. I still don't uderstand how they weren't afraid of being spotted from the nearby road by random traffic.

 

[Panda Steps]

LV was telling people that she was going to give him back to the Woodcocks. I'm sure that in Lori's mind he was not her child.

She was JJ's legal guardian at the time. He was her child in her custody until he was murdered by her. She even told police that Kay was trying to take him away without having the right to do so.

These two opposing statements are what baffles me about this case. Both are true. Lori made both of these statements to people. On the one hand, Lori doesn't want JJ anymore and is willing to give him back to the Woodcocks. She even tells MG that this is what she and the Woodcocks have arranged. Then, later, Lori changes her mind about sending JJ to his grandparents and starts telling people that the Woodcocks want to kidnap JJ. That's why she has to hide her children.

One possibility is that her change in stories coincides with finding out that CV signed his life insurance over to his sister instead of her. She didn't want the children, but she still thought she deserved the insurance money. CV signed over the money to his sister, believing she would be raising JJ. I can surmise that Lori wanted to hurt the Woodcocks because they received the insurance money instead of her. Consequently, she allegedly conspired with Alex and Chad to kill her children and bury them on Chad's property.

The sad thing about this case is that KW has stated before the children were found that she was willing to give Lori the insurance money in exchange for JJ and Tylee if Tylee wanted to stay with her.

I guess the other possibility is that Lori allegedly believed her children were zombies and had to be killed in order to be saved.

 

[indicolite22]

These two opposing statements are what baffles me about this case. Both are true. Lori made both of these statements to people. On the one hand, Lori doesn't want JJ anymore and is willing to give him back to the Woodcocks. She even tells MG that this is what she and the Woodcocks have arranged. Then, later, Lori changes her mind about sending JJ to his grandparents and starts telling people that the Woodcocks want to kidnap JJ. That's why she has to hide her children.

One possibility is that her change in stories coincides with finding out that CV signed his life insurance over to his sister instead of her. She didn't want the children, but she still thought she deserved the insurance money. CV signed over the money to his sister, believing she would be raising JJ. I can surmise that Lori wanted to hurt the Woodcocks because they received the insurance money instead of her. Consequently, she allegedly conspired with Alex and Chad to kill her children and bury them on Chad's property.

The sad thing about this case is that KW has stated before the children were found that she was willing to give Lori the insurance money in exchange for JJ and Tylee if Tylee wanted to stay with her.

I guess the other possibility is that Lori allegedly believed her children were zombies and had to be killed in order to be saved.

Lori knew well before moving to Rexburg that she wasn't the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance policy. She even called Kay to complain about it not long after Charles' murder.

IMO Lori can make opposing statements with ease and conviction as long as they further her agenda. When she lies to get herself out of trouble temporarily she doesn't think of being held accountable later.

 

[Forever Young]

Not buying it. Lori and Alex were in no emergency. Nobody was chasing after them. Some people were even suggesting that they kept the bodies unburied for days (taking them to the storage, etc.). It was Chad who had to choose wisely (=premeditation) when he'd allow for the burial to not be seen by his family or neighbors. I still don't uderstand how they weren't afraid of being spotted from the nearby road by random traffic.

What would someone see from the road going by in traffic? No one was reported missing yet. The road by Chad's looks to be a county road.

I live by a rural highway with pretty good traffic. People keep their eyes on the road and aren't trying to watch what somebody is doing in their own backyard. I actually set my garage roof on fire once, and not one single person saw it.

 

[Forever Young]

These two opposing statements are what baffles me about this case. Both are true. Lori made both of these statements to people. On the one hand, Lori doesn't want JJ anymore and is willing to give him back to the Woodcocks. She even tells MG that this is what she and the Woodcocks have arranged. Then, later, Lori changes her mind about sending JJ to his grandparents and starts telling people that the Woodcocks want to kidnap JJ. That's why she has to hide her children.

One possibility is that her change in stories coincides with finding out that CV signed his life insurance over to his sister instead of her. She didn't want the children, but she still thought she deserved the insurance money. CV signed over the money to his sister, believing she would be raising JJ. I can surmise that Lori wanted to hurt the Woodcocks because they received the insurance money instead of her. Consequently, she allegedly conspired with Alex and Chad to kill her children and bury them on Chad's property.

The sad thing about this case is that KW has stated before the children were found that she was willing to give Lori the insurance money in exchange for JJ and Tylee if Tylee wanted to stay with her.

I guess the other possibility is that Lori allegedly believed her children were zombies and had to be killed in order to be saved.

This is exactly how a Cluster B thinks. They do know right from wrong and feel guilt. So to overcome the guilt of killing their husband, wife, and children, their minds compensate with a little story that takes the guilt away. There is always this little hook that allows them to live with themselves. And that $430,000 was just a blessing.

 

[Forever Young]

<snipped for focus>

The sad thing about this case is that KW has stated before the children were found that she was willing to give Lori the insurance money in exchange for JJ and Tylee if Tylee wanted to stay with her.

Is this true?

 

[Lyrarya]

These two opposing statements are what baffles me about this case. Both are true. Lori made both of these statements to people. On the one hand, Lori doesn't want JJ anymore and is willing to give him back to the Woodcocks. She even tells MG that this is what she and the Woodcocks have arranged. Then, later, Lori changes her mind about sending JJ to his grandparents and starts telling people that the Woodcocks want to kidnap JJ. That's why she has to hide her children.

One possibility is that her change in stories coincides with finding out that CV signed his life insurance over to his sister instead of her. She didn't want the children, but she still thought she deserved the insurance money. CV signed over the money to his sister, believing she would be raising JJ. I can surmise that Lori wanted to hurt the Woodcocks because they received the insurance money instead of her. Consequently, she allegedly conspired with Alex and Chad to kill her children and bury them on Chad's property.

The sad thing about this case is that KW has stated before the children were found that she was willing to give Lori the insurance money in exchange for JJ and Tylee if Tylee wanted to stay with her.

I guess the other possibility is that Lori allegedly believed her children were zombies and had to be killed in order to be saved.

I think she only told MG the story about giving JJ back to KW. I could be wrong, but the lie was just for her and possibly indirectly for DW. Remember after MG left she had a whole story about a sending him back, having to say she had cancer and sending off on a plane.

The lie was a cover to keep MG from asking questions in the future when she didnt have JJ with her. It shows premeditation. The JJ is evil and a zombie is another lie to keep MG from judging her harshly for abandoning her kid. She even lied about KW only excepting JJ becouse she had cancer because her ego could not allow KW to look like the better person.

She only changed her story about KW to MG when the cops got involved and she desperately needed someone to claim that they had him long enough to escape. MOO

 

[Forever Young]

I think she only told MG the story about giving JJ back to KW. I could be wrong, but the lie was just for her and possibly indirectly for DW. Remember after MG left she had a whole story about a sending him back, having to say she had cancer and sending off on a plane.

The lie was a cover to keep MG from asking questions in the future when she didnt have JJ with her. It shows premeditation. The JJ is evil and a zombie is another lie to keep MG from judging her harshly for abandoning her kid. She even lied about KW only excepting JJ becouse she had cancer because her ego could not allow KW to look like the better person.

She only changed her story about KW to MG when the cops got involved and she desperately needed someone to claim that they had him long enough to escape. MOO

I wonder how long it took MG to figure out that since she stated to LE that she had JJ, (and something about even her son saying they'd had a visit), that if JJ never showed up, or showed up dead, she was the last one to have him? When did she realize that it could well be her in jail right now, instead of Lori? Has she even realized it yet?

 

[Forever Young]

Here's another question I just thought of. Why didn't Alex warn Chad and Lori that MG was going to the police? MG mentions that she had spoken with Alex on the recorded phone conversation, the "you don't want to know" part. She later told Nate Eaton that Alex knew she was going to the police. But Alex didn't try to kill MG immediately? Or even try to warn Chad and Lori about her?

 

[Lyrarya]

Not in my opinion, DW was able to her straight on the most importment issues, but she still thinks that they had a great friendship. She was mostly a pawn and I bet if she sits and thinks about it, she will find that LV manipulated her throughout thier entire relationship. Just my opinion.

 

[indicolite22]

What would someone see from the road going by in traffic? No one was reported missing yet. The road by Chad's looks to be a county road.

The backyard lies next to the road. There are no trees to obscure the view. The property is located near an intersection, so vehicles might slow down on approach. IMO you would spot a bonfire and perhaps see two guys digging, maybe even smell a distinct odor. A local might remember finding something odd about it later.

 

[Panda Steps]

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Is this true?

I watched two Dateline episodes about this case and other interviews that the Woodcocks made. I also did a lot of reading on the case. So, I couldn't remember where I had heard KW make this statement or I would have provided the link. But it is what I remember hearing or reading. Should I tell a moderator to remove that statement/and or post since I cannot provide a link?

 

[JolietJake]

Couldn't sod have just been the original top layer of grass and dirt that was where the grave was dug, and not necessarily a purchase of new sod?

That's what I think. I've dug holes in the yard, removing the top layer of sod and then put it back. Depending on how deep the roots are cut, some of the plants die or go into a certain amount of shock but they will fill in with time. I highly doubt the perps would take great care of a small section of grass on the back end of a large piece of rural property, behind a pond, and under a tree. I'd bet the perp(s) just threw on what was available after digging and I doubt anyone would drag a hose way out there for watering. New sod would take even more care and way back there, who would even care?
The growing season is limited late summer up north, and although spring time will help, the FBI agent's trained eye saw the difference in that small section, especially if the perps were in a hurry that day and I'm sure they would have been.

 

[indicolite22]

I watched two Dateline episodes about this case and other interviews that the Woodcocks made. I also did a lot of reading on the case. So, I couldn't remember where I had heard KW make this statement or I would have provided the link. But it is what I remember hearing or reading. Should I tell a moderator to remove that statement/and or post since I cannot provide a link?

I remember Kay's statement too. It was mentioned earlier on this thread. Will try to find the reference. There's no way of knowing if Kay would have given Lori the money if the kids didn't go missing. Not likely, IMO.

ETA Kay's statement from April 21:

"No doubt she has changed my and my family's lives forever, everyone who loved Charles, she's changed our lives forever," she added. "I'd get her out of jail, give her the money and I don't care what she does after that. We just want our JJ, and Tylee, too."

Lori Vallow Daybell's Sister-in-Law Says If 4th Husband Hadn't Had Life Insurance 'He Would Be Alive'

 

[Forever Young]

I watched two Dateline episodes about this case and other interviews that the Woodcocks made. I also did a lot of reading on the case. So, I couldn't remember where I had heard KW make this statement or I would have provided the link. But it is what I remember hearing or reading. Should I tell a moderator to remove that statement/and or post since I cannot provide a link?

You don't have to on my account. I think I have seen or heard it in other comments, in other places, too.

 

[Forever Young]

I remember Kay's statement too. It was mentioned earlier on this thread. Will try to find the reference. There's no way of knowing if Kay would have given Lori the money if the kids didn't go missing. Not likely, IMO.

ETA Kay's statement from April 21:

"No doubt she has changed my and my family's lives forever, everyone who loved Charles, she's changed our lives forever," she added. "I'd get her out of jail, give her the money and I don't care what she does after that. We just want our JJ, and Tylee, too."

Lori Vallow Daybell's Sister-in-Law Says If 4th Husband Hadn't Had Life Insurance 'He Would Be Alive'

Bolded: I agree. I don't see Kay easily rolling over for one of Lori's temper tantrums. Her brother was dead after all.

 

[Angleterre]

I don't think anyone would believe that the bodies were buried in Chad's backyard without his knowledge, considering that Alex's phone pinging there for 2.5 hours overlapped with Chad's bonfire and racoon burial. Chad must have seen the person that was carrying Alex's phone. Even if that wasn't a problem, why would Alex and Lori pick Chad's yard (a space overlooked by neighbors and passers by) for burial? And how come that Chad didn't notice disturbed ground?

If CD knew nothing about the children being buried on his land, why was it that as LE got to the point where they were virtually on top of the burial site and discovery of the children’s bodies, that he became visibly more anxious and when it dawned on him that the‘game was up’, he tried to flee by jumping into his vehicle and was swiftly pursued and stopped by LE? CD knew absolutely that the children were buried there on his land! Such a chameleon- changing himself to suit the environment.

 

[Angleterre]

It seems like he mentioned that in his application for a room for rent in Kauai? Jmo

Found it:

Email shows Lori Vallow's husband home hunting for 'clean couple with no pets or children'

It was also mentioned by CD when introducing LV as his wife to his family IIRC and he specifically stated that she had no minor children. I will try and find it for you....

 

[mickey2942]

That is puzzling to me, too. It has been said a few times that control was the main reason. Without the phone ping data, there would have been no search warrant until this point. Maybe the next owner would allow a cursory search of the property. It's not clear whether the perps were careless or just ignorant to let Alex's location be traced.

I think that LVD downplayed the interest of the Woodcocks in JJ's welfare. She told CD that no one would be looking for Tylee or JJ. He believed her. I am actually quite impressed with the police department in Rexburg, ID. They took the Woodcocks seriously. And I bet LVD tried to twirl her hair, bat her eyelashes, it worked out well in Arizona. But, not so much in Idaho. Kudos Rexburg PD!