Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

[887sMtreme]

I agree, I dont think he has an impairment, if anything I think he is very aware of his behavior and how others are perceiving him. IMO all the odd behavior is an intentional act of Chads part to appear more innocent or to make it seem like hes incapable of masterminding a murder conspiracy

The more I read others’ comments on the topic of CD’s affect, for want of a better word, the more I realize my remarks about him being impaired in some way were off-base. “Dumb like a fox” doesn’t quite cut it, either. It’s more complicated than that. Videos to the rescue, if any there still be.

 

[Monger]

[QUOTE="Monger, post: 16311443, member: 211698]

I just know that's not how I would have sounded on the phone if they were uncovering the kids remains in MY yard. And I did find it odd. Please don't beat me up. I'm not giving CD any excuses, I'm just saying he didn't sound quite right to me on the phone call given he HAD to know he was screwed to the wall during that phone call.

I agree he did sound really odd in that call. You are right, he was just realizing that the poop was hitting the fan. The fantasy was over. LE was digging up actual dead children on his property. No more spin, no more putting off explanations, no more pretending they were alive in a mysterious hiding place. I think he sounded like a six year old. People react to high stress situations in different ways, especially when they are guilty. He was realizing his life as he had lived it up to that point was over. He certainly didn’t sound normal.[/QUOTE]
Yes exactly. He sounded like he was six. And LVD spoke to him like he was six as well. That's what I found odd.

 

[ivegotthemic]

The more I read others’ comments on the topic of CD’s affect, for want of a better word, the more I realize my remarks about him being impaired in some way were off-base. “Dumb like a fox” doesn’t quite cut it, either. It’s more complicated than that. Videos to the rescue, if any there still be.

lol I like the phrase dumb like a fox, I think there are many instances of Chad being dumb/so arrogant he made careless mistakes because he assumed he wouldnt be caught. For example he purchase a wedding ring for LV before TD had passed away, he buried his step children in his backyard... because no one ever follows up on children that have disappeared, hes caught on camera going to the storage locker multiple times, he openly tells LVs friends about their affair (ie LV and CD holding hands at a public track).

But he also somehow was a leader in his church that was well respected. He convinced members of his church that he had visions of portals opening up and starting some kind of apocalypse and he also convinced those people that ZOMBIES are real. Its rumored CD may have had previous affairs (I believe ive seen this here, please remove if solely a rumor). Imagine what kind of charisma someone would have to have to convince you that zombies were real and taking over the souls of your loved ones. I can only imagine that he knows what to say and when to say it, to convince people of what he wants. Not to be rude but CD isnt bringing much in terms of looks or personality (i assume) so I can only conclude hes good at reading people and using that skill to manipulate them

 

[Niner]

It's because I live overseas - some sites don't allow access to their websites due to 'European law' or whatever..... If you've a way of sending me the article though, I'd be really grateful, thankyou!!

I too am in Europe - and I use this link - it does work most of the time, but it does "shorten" up the original article.

Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

 

[Tortoise]

She barely responded at all, and then only much later, Dismissively, which I’ve thought interesting all along.

I wondered why he sent the text at all, when he could have just told her later. It's like he wanted to avoid the conversation, like he knew Tammy would be able to tell when he was lying. I think that's what his visions (lies) are about, when he wants something he falls back on 'someone on the other side of the veil said...'.

moo

 

[GRT]

Awen Rees and Paul did a review of MG's book "Feel The Fire". Awen said there were parts that were too disturbing to read on air. Overall it was noted her disturbing detachment from her own children, lack of ability to be a mother to them, and her own very dysfunctional early childhood. And again, poor writing ability.

I agree with the "poor writing ability" assessment. I clicked on the "Look Inside" tab on Amazon's site and MG really is a lackluster writer who makes a number of grammatical errors.

Her detachment from her children is concerning to me since both Lori and Melaniece seem to have the same detachment, and I have to wonder if that isn't a prerequisite for being in the cult.

 

[GRT]

BBM-
I initially thought perhaps JJ had died when AxC brought him back to the apt that night when MG was there.
However, once they found JJ's body, buried in CD backyard, with DUCT TAPE wrapped all over his little body and a plastic bag around his head, I quickly decided that he was still alive when AxC brought him back that night.
I mean, why all the duct tape and bag over his face/head if he was already deceased ??
There would have been NO need for that.
So now I think JJ was alive that night, at least when he was brought back to the apt by Alex.
JMO

The duct tape and bag thing is odd, indeed, and I just assumed they were trying to seal his body from the air a much as possible in order to keep cadavar dogs (or anyone) from getting a scent.

But, as you say, it could have been a mode of death, in which case, I really want to see those two get the death penalty.

JMOO

 

[Snowflake_Sue]

I wondered why he sent the text at all, when he could have just told her later. It's like he wanted to avoid the conversation, like he knew Tammy would be able to tell when he was lying. I think that's what his visions (lies) are about, when he wants something he falls back on 'someone on the other side of the veil said...'.

moo

All Chad was focused on with that text was fooling Tammy. He didn't consider he was going to get caught out. I'd bet Tammy had to listen to him tell his heroic tale later too! After she got home from earning the income that is...

 

[Tortoise]

I agree he did sound really odd in that call. You are right, he was just realizing that the poop was hitting the fan. The fantasy was over. LE was digging up actual dead children on his property. No more spin, no more putting off explanations, no more pretending they were alive in a mysterious hiding place. I think he sounded like a six year old. People react to high stress situations in different ways, especially when they are guilty. He was realizing his life as he had lived it up to that point was over. He certainly didn’t sound normal.

It's an interesting call from the perspective of trying to discern who is leading who in the relationship.

He assumes the lead, and it comes over as his natural/default position, he doesn't let the side down in what we know is his weakest moment.

In the recorded call with MG I think he interjected to manipulate MG with indignation, and a laugh that is also manipulative, when he said wtte 'as if we could have planned all this'.

I think he's going to find it hard to argue in court that LV was the mastermind. She's a strong force, but she wasn't in control of CD.

moo

 

[Spartygirl]

I too am in Europe - and I use this link - it does work most of the time, but it does "shorten" up the original article.

Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

Thanks Niner !!
@DippyHippy --I Copied and paste the article and I did PM it to you

 

[indicolite22]

Another interesting interview (Inside Edition, Aug 21) with a LDS historian Christopher Blythe. His new book is titled Terrible Revolution: Latter-day Saints and the American Apocalypse. Apparently Chad wasn't interesting enough to be mentioned the book. I'm sure he is now.

From the article:

When people were talking about Chad Daybell, they wanted to talk about him as if he was a literal leader of something like LDS AVOW or Preparing a People, when really, these are just sort of networks of interested folks — it's almost like a fan community or something — that are excited about these visionaries.

Now from within that, Chad begins building a very small, I think, community. We might find out it's a dozen people, maybe, but right now, I think we could come up with maybe six or seven people that were believers in these sort of teachings.

ETA: A spokesperson for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declined to comment for this story, saying the church has no connection to this topic.

Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell Took Latter-day Saints Faith to 'Dark Places,' Scholar Says

 

[ivegotthemic]

It's an interesting call from the perspective of trying to discern who is leading who in the relationship.

He assumes the lead, and it comes over as his natural/default position, he doesn't let the side down in what we know is his weakest moment.

In the recorded call with MG I think he interjected to manipulate MG with indignation, and a laugh that is also manipulative, when he said wtte 'as if we could have planned all this'.

I think he's going to find it hard to argue in court that LV was the mastermind. She's a strong force, but she wasn't in control of CD.

moo

Agreed, Im honestly not sure who is more dominate in the situation and every time I learn something new I flip flop. They both have a long history of lying and manipulating the people around them to suit their needs. Hopefully a jury will see through his obvious tactics and attempts to appear innocent and docile

 

[Spartygirl]

I am on the fence today (subject to change daily) with who was in charge or more dominate.
Some days I think it was LVD and CD following her around like a little puppy.
Other days I think CD was the mastermind and LVD was following him around like he was a God or something.
But today, I feel it was BOTH of them Equally.
They fed off each other, 2 like minded souls, wanting to be together, living the high end of life with their dead spouses' insurance money, no kids, no responsibilities.
They were hoping the world's catastrophe's would have everyone preoccupied and they would slip away, kids buried in the back yard, totally Un-noticed.
Yeah, how did that work for you both ??
Thanks to Larry and Kaye for their persistent questioning and calling LE to investigate and follow up with a "Welfare Check".
Larry and Kaye are the heroes.
If it wasn't for them, LVD and CD just might have disappeared into the night or cave or portal and nobody would have known the kids were missing.

 

[indicolite22]

I too am in Europe - and I use this link - it does work most of the time, but it does "shorten" up the original article.

Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

Another option is to use a US-based web proxy.

 

[Forever Young]

lol I like the phrase dumb like a fox, I think there are many instances of Chad being dumb/so arrogant he made careless mistakes because he assumed he wouldnt be caught. For example he purchase a wedding ring for LV before TD had passed away, he buried his step children in his backyard... because no one ever follows up on children that have disappeared, hes caught on camera going to the storage locker multiple times, he openly tells LVs friends about their affair (ie LV and CD holding hands at a public track).

But he also somehow was a leader in his church that was well respected. He convinced members of his church that he had visions of portals opening up and starting some kind of apocalypse and he also convinced those people that ZOMBIES are real. Its rumored CD may have had previous affairs (I believe ive seen this here, please remove if solely a rumor). Imagine what kind of charisma someone would have to have to convince you that zombies were real and taking over the souls of your loved ones. I can only imagine that he knows what to say and when to say it, to convince people of what he wants. Not to be rude but CD isnt bringing much in terms of looks or personality (i assume) so I can only conclude hes good at reading people and using that skill to manipulate them

I agree, I dont think he has an impairment, if anything I think he is very aware of his behavior and how others are perceiving him. IMO all the odd behavior is an intentional act of Chads part to appear more innocent or to make it seem like hes incapable of masterminding a murder conspiracy

But just look at all the mistakes made for someone supposedly just puttin' on an act and playing dumb! You don't think that Chad really thought that nobody ever follows up on missing children, do you? If you think Chad thought that, that is an indication of not being very smart, not being a calculating genius.

As an aside, it was Lori who purchased the rings with Charles Vallow's amazon account prior to Tammy dying, not Chad. That indicates planning on Lori's part, not Chad's.

I don't quite understand the apparent reluctance to acknowledge that when people do these kinds of things, they are not normal, and it is fairly easy to recognize that they are not normal. That is not an "excuse" for behavior, but rather an explanation for behavior, when we are all asking "Why? Why? Why?".

And while we have not heard from Chad's family that he was considered slow, what we have heard (through his brother and sister-in-law) is that a majority of his family at one time or another thought he had visions and was "gifted". They have more or less acknowledged right there that Chad was not considered to be "normal".

Research has shown that severe head trauma can cause epilepsy and that the visions produced during a seizure are often visions of what the person was thinking about prior to the seizure.

So when Chad is out digging graves in the cemetery, what is he thinking about? Dead people who never truly die.

Or the killing of the bees story, where he seems to dissociate and repeats the same action over and over, when suddenly he "comes to" and wonders to himself why he is doing this.

IMO it would take a lot more energy and organization to "fake" this for years, rather than just admit that something is truly "wrong" with him, and I would bet that brain imaging would show this. JMO

 

[Niner]

Another option is to use a US-based web proxy.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm older than 70 and don't know any of this "tech" stuff! LOL!
If I really want to see an article - I have friends here that help!

 

[ivegotthemic]

But just look at all the mistakes made for someone supposedly just puttin' on an act and playing dumb! You don't think that Chad really thought that nobody ever follows up on missing children, do you? If you think Chad thought that, that is an indication of not being very smart, not being a calculating genius.

As an aside, it was Lori who purchased the rings with Charles Vallow's amazon account prior to Tammy dying, not Chad. That indicates planning on Lori's part, not Chad's.

I don't quite understand the apparent reluctance to acknowledge that when people do these kinds of things, they are not normal, and it is fairly easy to recognize that they are not normal. That is not an "excuse" for behavior, but rather an explanation for behavior, when we are all asking "Why? Why? Why?".

And while we have not heard from Chad's family that he was considered slow, what we have heard (through his brother and sister-in-law) is that a majority of his family at one time or another thought he had visions and was "gifted". They have more or less acknowledged right there that Chad was not considered to be "normal".

Research has shown that severe head trauma can cause epilepsy and that the visions produced during a seizure are often visions of what the person was thinking about prior to the seizure.

So when Chad is out digging graves in the cemetery, what is he thinking about? Dead people who never truly die.

Or the killing of the bees story, where he seems to dissociate and repeats the same action over and over, when suddenly he "comes to" and wonders to himself why he is doing this.

IMO it would take a lot more energy and organization to "fake" this for years, rather than just admit that something is truly "wrong" with him, and I would bet that brain imaging would show this. JMO

Sorry I wasnt very clear in my previous post. A few posts back when I initially posted I wasnt referring to CD during his entire life, just the way he was acting during the probable cause hearing and the way hes presented himself in court. and No I dont think CD thought no one would follow up, but I do think CD thought he was smart enough to evade suspicion. I know LV bought the rings, I was just alluding to the fact that the two of them clearly had a plan in place to be together. CD was mentioning TD death to people weeks before it happened and CD and LV didnt appear to be trying to hide their affair from their friends or family

I agree that neither CD or LV are normal people. I believe there is def some mental illness at play here, but I am not a psychologist and I dont want to break any rules. This is JMO that Im basing off my personal experience, as someone with two parents that have different but equally fun Cluster B personality disorders. Certain things ring familiar to me, but they could ring familiar for a lot of reasons. and I agree generally, if anyone I knew told me they were having spiritual visions I would be very concerned about their mental health and I mean no disrespect to religion (im religious) but theres a difference between having a vision and starting a doomsday cult. IMO CD thought very highly of himself and they way he behaved during any of this was definitely not normal. CD was a smooth talker and was good at convincing people to see his side of things. Even if people questioned him, Im sure he was quick to come up with plausible explanations for his behavior.

and LMAO i just got a mental image of CD digging a whole in a graveyard, for like two days straight totally dissociated and dreaming about zombies.

 

[Forever Young]

Sorry I wasnt very clear in my previous post. A few posts back when I initially posted I wasnt referring to CD during his entire life, just the way he was acting during the probable cause hearing and the way hes presented himself in court. and No I dont think CD thought no one would follow up, but I do think CD thought he was smart enough to evade suspicion. I know LV bought the rings, I was just alluding to the fact that the two of them clearly had a plan in place to be together. CD was mentioning TD death to people weeks before it happened and CD and LV didnt appear to be trying to hide their affair from their friends or family

I agree that neither CD or LV are normal people. I believe there is def some mental illness at play here, but I am not a psychologist and I dont want to break any rules. This is JMO that Im basing off my personal experience, as someone with two parents that have different but equally fun Cluster B personality disorders. Certain things ring familiar to me, but they could ring familiar for a lot of reasons. and I agree generally, if anyone I knew told me they were having spiritual visions I would be very concerned about their mental health and I mean no disrespect to religion (im religious) but theres a difference between having a vision and starting a doomsday cult. IMO CD thought very highly of himself and they way he behaved during any of this was definitely not normal. CD was a smooth talker and was good at convincing people to see his side of things. Even if people questioned him, Im sure he was quick to come up with plausible explanations for his behavior.

and LMAO i just got a mental image of CD digging a whole in a graveyard, for like two days straight totally dissociated and dreaming about zombies.

And I just had a mental image of Chad stomping on a Cluster of "B"s.

I am not a psychologist either, though I do have some college psychology - which is not better teaching than growing up with a Cluster B, and knowing it well before the term was ever used. My dad was a textbook example of true NPD, so welcome to the club of those who have taken the crash course.

 

[lake daze]

All Chad was focused on with that text was fooling Tammy. He didn't consider he was going to get caught out. I'd bet Tammy had to listen to him tell his heroic tale later too! After she got home from earning the income that is...

I was thinking about that text to Tammy. After he bragged about killing the raccoon and burying it in the cemetery that held the bodies of her beloved pets, he wrote "I love you." She waited a few hours and wrote back "good for you." If I have this wrong, I apologize, but it went something like that. Did anyone else think her writing "good for you" may have been sarcastic? Maybe she wrote that because he wrote "I love you." And maybe she wasn't feeling it at the moment.

I just bring this up because I've wrote or said that same phrase to my hubby when I was mad at him for something, after he said "I love you." Lol, we've been married for 44 years and I do love him but sometimes...you know what I mean? I think after being in a long marriage there are moments...lol. I know I wouldn't be happy to know that my husband buried a murdered animal in my beloved pet cemetery. But that's another matter.

I just wonder if Tammy felt a change in Chad in those last few weeks. Poor lady!

 

[ivegotthemic]

And I just had a mental image of Chad stomping on a Cluster of "B"s.

I am not a psychologist either, though I do have some college psychology - which is not better teaching than growing up with a Cluster B, and knowing it well before the term was ever used. My dad was a textbook example of true NPD, so welcome to the club of those who have taken the crash course.

Thank you, thank you, I usually find the others through my inappropriate use of dark humor so its nice to get an invite to join the club. I feel your pain I had Peggy With BPD and NPD and my dad with NPD and IRD so Ive seen the gambit of crazy in my day. One of benefits of growing up with crazy people, is that my tolerance for weird behavior is huge, so for me, when Im consciously aware that someones acting not right I take it seriously. (*cough someone talking about zombies like its a real thing). Ive also been granted what I lovingly call an early warning system. There are just certain behaviors, although seemingly harmless, the give me a weird feeling. With Lori I first noticed how she always seemed to be surrounded by chaos, but it never appears to be her fault. Always the victim of circumstance. Its little things like that I notice, I dont know how to describe it but its like a familiar feeling but I know its not a good familiar and sometimes it takes a minute to figure out what exactly im vibing on but Im usually pretty spot on. Cluster B's just have this way about them. I dont know if im even explaining it well, but hopefully that sounds somewhat logical? Anyways long story short theres a bunch of little things that both CD and LV have done that make me think all is not well upstairs and if you ever want to trade war stories, Im down lol

Also this is probably Tmi for a true crime public forum, but (insert shrug emoji here) IDC because meeting people who get it is so rare