Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

[alexwood]

I was watching Forensic Files tonight, a very old one and it talked about this case. Where a daughter Almost Got Away With Murder because she poisoned her father with barium. Foaming at the mouth, and the autopsy said it was due to cardiac failure. Sound familiar?

It took over a year until the girl told a friend what she had done. Luckily they had kept some tissue from autopsy and they were able to send out to a specialized Laboratory to find the chemical in the tissue at lethal levels.

I still have hope that they can find the poison in all the deaths that have followed Lori.

Poisoning Daddy – Texas Monthly

I had to read the article to find out how she obtained the barium acetate. While her teacher wasn't looking, she poured it out of a bottle in her high school chemistry lab, into a napkin, and put it into her "knapsack".

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Snip:
...
Last Tuesday, the Post Register published a recording in which Lori Vallow talks about a former desire to murder her third husband Joseph Ryan. Now, the Phoenix Police Department has said it will reexamine the original investigation into Ryan’s death.

“The Phoenix Police Department has been made aware of the information and is reviewing the 2018 death investigation of Joseph Ryan,” Mercedes Fortune, Public Information Sergeant at the Phoenix Police Department, told the Post Register.

The audio recording was from 2018. It was recorded at a religious gathering through a group called Preparing a People. The recording was given to Ryan’s sister Annie Cushing. Cushing shared the recording with the Post Register.

In the recording, Vallow tells the group that she wanted to murder Ryan after he gained visitation rights with their daughter Tylee Ryan.

“I was going to murder him. I was going to kill him," Vallow said. "Like the scriptures say. Like Nephi killed. Just to stop the pain and to stop him coming after me and to stop him coming after my children. I just thought I couldn’t take it anymore. And I would go through the scriptures and find all the things. Like: ‘If he comes against you once, if he comes against you twice, if he comes against you three times then you can kill him.’ It says it in the scriptures in the Book of Mormon. I was like there it is. There’s my answer. ... So I went and met with my bishop, and I was like, ‘I’m either going to turn my life to the temple or I’m going to commit murder."

Vallow goes on to say the bishop gave her the temple recommend, and she became more devout after that point. A temple recommend is an identification card that allows members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to enter a temple.

Cushing said there were things she found suspicious regarding the death of her brother. Ryan died on April 3, 2018, at age 58. His sister reported that he never got a full autopsy. The medical examiner only examined Ryan’s remains externally. Ryan’s body was not found and examined until one week after his estimated time of death. His death was ruled due to a heart attack.

Cushing is not sure what happened, but would like her brother’s death to be investigated.

“There are things that make me suspicious, that make me think she played a hand. That’s just her M.O.,” Cushing said.
Police looking into another Lori Vallow-related death following recording release

 

[887sMtreme]

I do not mean this as an examination of LDS doctrine, which is not allowed here. Would it be normal for a bishop to issue a Temple recommend to a someone who had just stated to him her intent to commit murder, using scripture from the Book of Mormon as justification? It sounds like she used her “confession” as a bargaining chip, which seems odd. She became more devout after receiving her recommend? Really? Doesn’t seem so to me.

This is the sort of thing that makes me feel a jury of LDS Church members would understand the defendants’ statements and actions very differently from those who were not members. With a mixed or non-LDS jury, the attorneys would have to do a lot of explaining about how some testimony may be relevant to the defendants’ frame of mind during the periods leading up to the burials. Making too much of that could be perceived as religious persecution. Do you think it would come to that at all?

I’m still flabbergasted that the Daybells are charged with such relatively low-level crimes. Surely murder should be on the table by now. What am I missing?

 

[Trebor5591]

...

I’m still flabbergasted that the Daybells are charged with such relatively low-level crimes. Surely murder should be on the table by now. What am I missing?

Perhaps the authorities are lacking a cause of death for the children?

 

[Gardenkeep]

Pure Speculation on my part: I thought a lot about the fact that they were charged with conspiracy and not murder. I wonder if it is because of Alex. He is the 3rd conspirator, and dead. His death is the game changer. Evidence can clearly hold up to conspiracy, but not the actual murders. Because of Alex. It really does change the legal landscape. I'm not a pro, I'd love to see a legal pro weigh in on this. IMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I do not mean this as an examination of LDS doctrine, which is not allowed here. Would it be normal for a bishop to issue a Temple recommend to a someone who had just stated to him her intent to commit murder, using scripture from the Book of Mormon as justification? It sounds like she used her “confession” as a bargaining chip, which seems odd. She became more devout after receiving her recommend? Really? Doesn’t seem so to me.

This is the sort of thing that makes me feel a jury of LDS Church members would understand the defendants’ statements and actions very differently from those who were not members. With a mixed or non-LDS jury, the attorneys would have to do a lot of explaining about how some testimony may be relevant to the defendants’ frame of mind during the periods leading up to the burials. Making too much of that could be perceived as religious persecution. Do you think it would come to that at all?

I’m still flabbergasted that the Daybells are charged with such relatively low-level crimes. Surely murder should be on the table by now. What am I missing?

BBM
She is a pathological liar; the conversation never happened except in her imagination. IMO. Makes a great fireside story though!

 

[Love Never Fails]

You all may know this already. I am on my iPad and was just looking at Fox News. One of their headlines says Lori Vallow was just named a person of interest in the death of Joseph Ryan.

I did not realize authorities had actually named her a person of interest, though we all know she is.

 

[renarde]

"The mother is jailed in Idaho on conspiracy charges related to the death of her children."

Lori Vallow named person of interest in death of third husband

 

[longtimereader]

I had to read the article to find out how she obtained the barium acetate. While her teacher wasn't looking, she poured it out of a bottle in her high school chemistry lab, into a napkin, and put it into her "knapsack".

Very interesting. Chapter 29. Barium | Poisoning & Drug Overdose, 6e | AccessMedicine | McGraw-Hill Medical Barium carbonate is inexpensive, water soluable and can be ordered online. Aceitate as well as flouride is more expensive. "The US Environmental Protection agency (EPA) has set an oral reference dose for barium of 0.07 mg/kg/d. A level of 50 mg/m3 may be immediately dangerous to life and health (IDLH)." jmo

 

[longtimereader]

I was watching Forensic Files tonight, a very old one and it talked about this case. Where a daughter Almost Got Away With Murder because she poisoned her father with barium. Foaming at the mouth, and the autopsy said it was due to cardiac failure. Sound familiar?

It took over a year until the girl told a friend what she had done. Luckily they had kept some tissue from autopsy and they were able to send out to a specialized Laboratory to find the chemical in the tissue at lethal levels.

I still have hope that they can find the poison in all the deaths that have followed Lori.

Poisoning Daddy – Texas Monthly

She was from Ft. Worth and Lori would have potentially heard about this surprising case. The trial was in 1996, Lori's sister died in 1998 in San Antonio. Marie Robards was beautiful, well liked, funny, clean cut and no one suspected her. I looked for barium in beauty products because that might be a source of purchase in 1998. Barium Sulfide is used in hair removal productions. I even found a youtube channel with a video on how to make your own with that listed as an ingredient. I hope police look into barium and that the technology for detecting it has advanced since then! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. JMO

 

[indicolite22]

Pure Speculation on my part: I thought a lot about the fact that they were charged with conspiracy and not murder. I wonder if it is because of Alex. He is the 3rd conspirator, and dead. His death is the game changer. Evidence can clearly hold up to conspiracy, but not the actual murders. Because of Alex. It really does change the legal landscape. I'm not a pro, I'd love to see a legal pro weigh in on this. IMO

I'm not a pro, but this has been discussed on this thread a few times before.

So far they have been only charged with conspiracy to conceal and destroy evidence, not conspiracy to murder. Conspiracy carries the same penalty as the act itself (link below), so in that sense Alex being the murderer won't be a problem (once they are charged with conspiracy to murder), as long as it is proven that they acted together.

Section 18-1701 – Idaho State Legislature

 

[indicolite22]

"The mother is jailed in Idaho on conspiracy charges related to the death of her children."

Lori Vallow named person of interest in death of third husband

I couldn't find the source for "person of interest" claim in the article above. There's another article with a similar claim, which the police are not commenting on:

Lori Vallow named 'person of interest' in death of third husband | Daily Mail Online

Two sources close to the investigation into Ryan's death told OK Magazine this week that both Lori and her deceased brother Alex Cox are considered persons of interest in the case.

'[Ryan] was cremated, so there is not going to be any new physical evidence,' one source told the outlet.

'It is really just looking at what they already have from the autopsy, and what Lori and Alex were doing around that time, where they were doing it.'

 

[Tortoise]

I couldn't find the source for "person of interest" claim in the article above. There's another article with a similar claim, which the police are not commenting on:

Lori Vallow named 'person of interest' in death of third husband | Daily Mail Online

Two sources close to the investigation into Ryan's death told OK Magazine this week that both Lori and her deceased brother Alex Cox are considered persons of interest in the case.

'[Ryan] was cremated, so there is not going to be any new physical evidence,' one source told the outlet.

'It is really just looking at what they already have from the autopsy, and what Lori and Alex were doing around that time, where they were doing it.'

I find it interesting that Lori and Charles had moved back to Arizona from Hawaii the year before Joe's death, and that Joe also moved to Arizona from Texas to be near Tylee. I find it all too coincidental.

Another point of interest is that Charles took Lori's threats to murder him (Charles) very seriously. If he knew anything about Joe he obviously wouldn't be able to say it, imo. But he went straight to get an order for detainment, wouldn't go in the house until police came out, and applied for an order of protection. How many consider that to be normal in the context of what she is reported to have said to him? I think he knew her capabilities.

 

[indicolite22]

I find it interesting that Lori and Charles had moved back to Arizona from Hawaii the year before Joe's death, and that Joe also moved to Arizona from Texas to be near Tylee. I find it all too coincidental.

Another point of interest is that Charles took Lori's threats to murder him (Charles) very seriously. If he knew anything about Joe he obviously wouldn't be able to say it, imo. But he went straight to get an order for detainment, wouldn't go in the house until police came out, and applied for an order of protection. How many consider that to be normal in the context of what she is reported to have said to him? I think he knew her capabilities.

Didn't Charles think that Lori lost her mind after she told him she was an exalted being who could murder him with impunity? IMO he saw danger in her altered state. Just a few months later she was seemingly back to normal and they reconciled for a short while. Charles wouldn't have taken her back if he was aware how dangerous she really was. Based on that I'm not sure if he had suspicion of her involvement in Joe's death.

 

[Tortoise]

Didn't Charles think that Lori lost her mind, after she told him she was an exalted being who could murder him with impunity? IMO he saw danger in her altered state. Just a few months later she was seemingly back to normal and they reconciled for a short while. Charles wouldn't have taken her back if he was aware how dangerous she really was. Based on that I'm not sure if he had suspicion of her involvement in Joe's death.

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. She had told him he could have the children and she was clearly saying crazy things as regards Charles not really being Charles, doctors seeing she was a translated being and having an angel to dispose of his body, but I'm not sure if she said those things to me I would see her as capable of killing. Needing a mental health evaluation most definitely, protecting the children from emotional damage most definitely, but capable of actual cold-blooded murder? He didn't discover the life insurance policy tampering until days later.

He kept KW as his life insurance beneficiary after the 'reconciliation', even though we know it was Lori's intention to work on his finances.

I still think it's very possible he knew a lot more about her and remained cautious despite telling people she was back.

MOO

 

[longtimereader]

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. She had told him he could have the children and she was clearly saying crazy things as regards Charles not really being Charles, doctors seeing she was a translated being and having an angel to dispose of his body, but I'm not sure if she said those things to me I would see her as capable of killing. Needing a mental health evaluation most definitely, protecting the children from emotional damage most definitely, but capable of actual cold-blooded murder? He didn't discover the life insurance policy tampering until days later.

He kept KW as his life insurance beneficiary after the 'reconciliation', even though we know it was Lori's intention to work on his finances.

I still think it's very possible he knew a lot more about her and remained cautious despite telling people she was back.

MOO

I am thinking for along the lines of protecting himself from lies that he hurt her or did anything to her or the children. He may have figured out that Joe was not a bad guy afterall and did not want the police or courts to side with her. That was after she moved money, cancelled his flights and took his truck. I am sure he had no ides what was going on and was scared for the children too.

 

[887sMtreme]

BBM
She is a pathological liar; the conversation never happened except in her imagination. IMO. Makes a great fireside story though!

Well, she got her recommend from somebody, right? If not, all her amazing visits to the temple are also lies. Given a church that fundamentally embraces visions — which to non-members sound odd, to say the least — how does LE persuade a jury that this kind of talk is evidence of a deluded person who might do anything to further their narcissistic fantasies? I keep snagging my hem on that. I hope there is solid, non-“spectral” evidence that will result in guilty verdicts for both these two.

 

[cb73]

Well, she got her recommend from somebody, right? If not, all her amazing visits to the temple are also lies. Given a church that fundamentally embraces visions — which to non-members sound odd, to say the least — how does LE persuade a jury that this kind of talk is evidence of a deluded person who might do anything to further their narcissistic fantasies? I keep snagging my hem on that. I hope there is solid, non-“spectral” evidence that will result in guilty verdicts for both these two.

You don't actually know what she said during her temple recommend interview. We only know what she told someone else that she said.

She seems to me to be a person that says what she thinks others want to hear to gain her own ends and her interview was probably very boring and just what the bishop wanted to hear.

 

[Forever Young]

Daybell-Vallow trial postponed until July