Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #46

[GRT]

I usually lurk, because between my job and kids, I can NEVER stay current on a websleuths thread. but I finally caught up to this one, so I thought I’d post something.

I don’t think Chad and Lori buy into the beliefs they’ve been spewing.

Chad. I think Chad sounds like he’s always been an ineffectual opportunist who wants to consolidate power. Basically, he’s the kind of guy who likes telling people what to do, and he was sick of standing on the sidelines.

I keep thinking of what he wrote in, I believe it was, redvine’s yearbook? And also how he would tell Tammy that he had visions that dead relatives said she should stop playing video games or go visit her parents. With Tammy, it seems like he was testing his ability to manipulate others into doing what he wanted.

And eventually, he discovered that twisting LDS beliefs so far that he turned himself into a god and his enemies into zombies earned him a handful of followers whom he could control.

But, while he might the kind of guy who wants to be a take-charge god, that doesn’t make him smart. He seems to have enough social and emotional intelligence to woo vulnerable people coming from a similar background—but he clearly and SEVERELY overestimated his ability to pull off a bunch of crimes. Some will say that he overestimated his abilities because he’d bought into his self-made religious beliefs, but I say that he overestimated himself because Chad thinks he’s awesome, and because Chad is not smart.

Lori. It’s possible that Lori was buying some of what Chad was selling, but I don’t think so. She seems like she’s the type of person who also likes to be in control She takes what she wants—money, her kids, another woman’s husband—they’re all objects to her. When she wanted Tylee, she took her from Charles. Later, she wanted Chad and money, so she had Alex get rid of Charles. Then, when she still wanted Chad and money, the kids had to go; how was she supposed to live her best life with Chad with those two kids always dragging her down? And until his death, it certainly seems like she controlled Alex.

This is where it becomes awfully convenient that kids weren’t invited to join the 144,000. Lori’s and Chad didn’t want to deal with her kids, so there you go. And Tammy was also an obstacle to their relationship, so they got rid of her.

I really think it’s that simple. I don’t think Chad was duping Lori, nor do I think Lori was duping Chad. I think that they were like-minded individuals who fell hard for each other, and Chad’s tool to make himself powerful became a tool for both of them.

(I apologize for the callous tone above, but it’s to illustrate their mindset, not my own.)

I’ll resume lurking now.

I agree with a lot of what you say, the only place I find any difference is the degree to which Lori bought into Chad's spiel.

Like you, I think she's a control nut, but I think she's also gullible when it comes to spiritual beliefs. Chad (JMOO) had to have drawn her in somewhat because he offers her nothing else in the way of money, looks (especially looks) or a chance at the type of life she was used to with CV. In my opinion, he had to have brainwashed her to some extent. However, I don't think she really had much of a bond with her kids and so it wasn't too difficult to allow Chad's "list" of light and dark beings convince her that her kids were zombies and needed to die.

They are both evil to the core, but Chad JMO is the not-so-bright brains behind the failed plan. He learned early on that a handful of people would buy his books because they were looking for some sort of apocalyptic reinforcement, and Lori fell right into that trap.

Had it not been Lori, I think it would eventually have been another woman and he would have tried the same control tactics with her -- the killings -- I think they were all his idea, and I think he got off on feeling as though he had the power to decide life and death.

I hope they lock Lori up for life, but I hope Chad gets the death penalty.

 

[CSIDreamer]

You have stated it this way a few times now, and it doesn't quite land in my ear the right way, so let me bounce this off of you. I think what you're trying to say is:

Her being prevented from wearing street clothes would impede her right to a fair trial.

That's what you're saying, right?

Because if she was informed of her right to wear street clothes, and then chose to show up in prison garb anyway, she can't really impede her own rights... right?

Let me know if I've got this wrong.

That's right. She gets the choice. And she has to be given that choice. This is, obviously, a very high profile case. Most run of the mill cases aren't broadcast worldwide. This one is. So, IMO, it's a bit different.

We also have the odd thing going on where one defendant has people hyperventilating because she's in street clothes, blue no less. The other in a dress shirt and tie and *crickets*. Have you noticed that?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Right. Instead they said let’s not bother with splatter pictures/analysis, blood samples or gunpowder residue tests. Why don’t you drive this pretty lady and her family to the station for quick routine questioning while I finish mopping up all this blood.....

BBM

I have never recovered from that and probably never will. Jmo

 

[Hatfield]

I sure wish we knew the backdrop of why AC and ZP were in a rush to marry, and why take on his wife's last name? Her past was certainly not good but can't sleuth her and post about it here I don't think.

JMO
With so many spouses of this group mysteriously dying, I am left wondering if the rushed marriages involved the same sort of plan of one killing the other for insurance money. I dont know if that fits with some of the others but the rushed marriages do sound strange and all I can think about is something devious was up about them.

I think more than one of the still living spouses are lucky to be alive and they dont even realize they are lucky.

 

[Hatfield]

That's right. She gets the choice. And she has to be given that choice. This is, obviously, a very high profile case. Most run of the mill cases aren't broadcast worldwide. This one is. So, IMO, it's a bit different.

JMO
I was thinking she and her lawyer know about her right to wear something different if she chooses and she decided herself that since there is no jury present that she chose not to get all dolled up and changed.

She may have even chose to do it to try to garner public sympathy.

I dont know for sure of course but I think she and her lawyer chose this and maybe even signed something knowing she could wear whatever she wants to court.

When trial comes in front of jury I am thinking she will dress up for that.

 

[CSIDreamer]

JMO
I was thinking she and her lawyer know about her right to wear something different if she chooses and she decided herself that since there is no jury present that she chose not to get all dolled up and changed.

She may have even chose to do it to try to garner public sympathy.

I dont know for sure of course but I think she and her lawyer chose this and maybe even signed something knowing she could wear whatever she wants to court.

When trial comes in front of jury I am thinking she will dress up for that.

I'm curious about public sympathy. I've watched Bull too much. Do you think there was a reason she was in blue? Jmo

 

[vislaw]

I'm curious about public sympathy. I've watched Bull too much. Do you think there was a reason she was in blue? Jmo

Tara Trask, a San Francisco-based trial consultant who has assisted Oprah Winfrey and television network ABC in lawsuits, says even the texture of clothes worn by defendants and witnesses can send messages. Trask says the key is making witnesses and defendants look good, but "benign." ​

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I believe we will find that CV was paying for all the phones of the extended Cox family.

Agreed. But it makes little or no sense for them to be burner phones; they are very inconvenient for ordinary folks or those trying to run a business.

 

[April_Dawn99]

I have a question about the comments on Risperdone. Some say that it may have been given to JJ to make him sleepy. Others say it would not have that effect. My daughter and her sons have ADHD and Risperdone is one of the meds that are Rxed to them to help them focus and calm their minds. It is a stimulant but has the opposite effect on them. They drink coffee as a sedative or to be able to focus. Maybe it did have this same effect on JJ. Has anyone else heard of stimulants having the opposite effect on individuals who take them?

My son has ADHD, and it is true that sedatives make things worse, whereas stimulants (including coffee) calm him down and enable to focus. But here I am talking about age-appropriate dosages and about overall approach. I don't think this will be true for higher than appropriate dosages though , so if one needs to put them to sleep, not stimulants would be used, but sedatives. Also in our case we are able to avoid more potent meds such as Risperidone, so on this one I cannot comment.

 

[JoJoJoey2407]

LVD and CD were not even in the mainland US at that time. We've talked this through ad nauseam, ad infinitum it seems. The Narcan was there because first responders found him unresponsive and administered it as a precaution, since they couldn't be sure he was NOT an overdose. But the ME report showed no opioids in his system. And his natural cause of death is supported by medical findings in his organs/body.

Janky as the timing looks, the only non-legit thing about his death IMO is the timing. This is why the word "coincidence" exists. AFAIK, the authorities consider his death a closed matter. I will be thrilled if they reopen it later on, but it seems really doubtful.

Thanks, gumchew. I know my question was crazy, but I still keep seeing news articles (too many to list) saying "suspicious', when referring to his death. Ok, I'm done with his death, the raccoon, and that orange duffle bag on the blue tarp! Lol

 

[Hatfield]

I'm curious about public sympathy. I've watched Bull too much. Do you think there was a reason she was in blue? Jmo

Im not sure but she is so sneaky I dont put anything past her and she may have had a hidden reason for the colors she chose.

ETA - I will never forget Jodi Arias using that very low short chair to try to make herself look small and nimble. LOL

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

I have a question about the comments on Risperdone. Some say that it may have been given to JJ to make him sleepy. Others say it would not have that effect. My daughter and her sons have ADHD and Risperdone is one of the meds that are Rxed to them to help them focus and calm their minds. It is a stimulant but has the opposite effect on them. They drink coffee as a sedative or to be able to focus. Maybe it did have this same effect on JJ. Has anyone else heard of stimulants having the opposite effect on individuals who take them?

Yes, at our school district it has become somewhat popular for parents to try coffee/Mt Dew for breakfast before starting prescriptions because of the various side effects of the prescriptions. Not something a school district encourages by any means, but one parent tried it saw a difference right away and eventually started child on a script.

 

[Leader6518]

It's interesting that you assume that he lied. Sure, we can assume ill intent all day long on the part of our primary actors here in this case (CD, LVD), but it wouldn't occur to me to assume that Means was lying. He should have been prepared to answer this question more fully, and he should have qualified his response with more complete information, and not doing those things makes him sloppy. I just can't imagine that he would have had the temerity to lie to the court over something that could so easily be verified, as evidenced by Wood's subsequent objection.

I think you are probably right, gumchew. I believe MM is in way over his head. He is used to civil matters and is completely out of his element with a criminal case.

Listening to Scott R - he is saying something around pleading guilty to the current charges will prevent the prosecution bringing further charges because the two are instrinsically linked. Your thoughts? Listen in about 6.50

IANAL but I believe conspiracy to conceal evidence is not close to murder. They are not close to the same thing. I believe Scott R. tends to speak to the criminally minded in his podcast. I enjoy listening to him but his views are slanted for the defense.

 

[Nikynoo]

I think you are probably right, gumchew. I believe MM is in way over his head. He is used to civil matters and is completely out of his element with a criminal case.


IANAL but I believe conspiracy to conceal evidence is not close to murder. They are not close to the same thing. I believe Scott R. tends to speak to the criminally minded in his podcast. I enjoy listening to him but his views are slanted for the defense.

Perhaps Scottie is giving out tips to MM?

 

[Leader6518]

In my opinion its not remotely possible a guilty plea to the current charges could foreclose pursuing murder and conspiracy to commit murder as well as any number of additional charges stemming from the crimes committed. The only possibility would be if "all the elements" of the lesser charge were relied upon the make the murder or conspiracy charge. The prosecution in this case has been very careful to avoid this. ALL of the current charges stem from destroying evidence or concealing it. None of it relates to the intent required for murder or conspiracy.

Thanks for responding. I had responded before I saw your post. It's nice to know my 25 years of following cases has taught me something!

 

[Tortoise]

All the upcoming hearings:-

Lori Vallow Daybell - Preliminary hearing on 5 charges (2 x desertion, obstruction, solicitation and contempt) - Madison County - 9th/10th July, 9:00am
Chad Daybell - Preliminary hearing on 4 charges (2 x destruction/concealment of evidence, 2 x conspiracy re same) - Fremont County - 3rd/4th Aug, 10:30am/9:30am
Lori Vallow Daybell - Preliminary hearing on 2 charges (conspiracy to commit destruction/concealment of evidence) - Fremont County - 10th/11th Aug, time TBA

 

[passionflower]

Was LVD very close to her oldest child Colby? I saw him on Dr Phil and he pleaded with her to tell him where JJ and TYLEE was. I think he has a baby that would be her 1st grandchild. One would think she would wrap her world around them instead of doing away with Zombies and marrying and running all over the place even Hawaii MOO

Im not sure but she is so sneaky I dont put anything past her and she may have had a hidden reason for the colors she chose.

ETA - I will never forget Jodi Arias using that very low short chair to try to make herself look small and nimble. LOL

MOO she wants to look very humble LdS religious Wife of a preacher. No fear for them because they think the end of the world will happen before their trials and since they are Gods they will be saved.WOW

 

[Leader6518]

Whether she did or did not, I still can't shake the notion that if that crime hadn't happened, the kids would be alive today.

That is a hard one to say. Chad had already set the stage for getting rid of LVDs kids by saying TR was dark. If I remember correctly, she was 4.1D and in the information we got from IP, 4.1's rarely changed. He had set the stage for TR already being dark and unchangeable. It was just a matter of time for JJ to turn because one reason to become a zombie is a traumatic experience. I think the murder of CV and just his autism would qualify in their eyes. Bottom line, CD did not want the kids hanging around with all the drama.

 

[Knox]

I agree with a lot of what you say, the only place I find any difference is the degree to which Lori bought into Chad's spiel.

Like you, I think she's a control nut, but I think she's also gullible when it comes to spiritual beliefs. Chad (JMOO) had to have drawn her in somewhat because he offers her nothing else in the way of money, looks (especially looks) or a chance at the type of life she was used to with CV. In my opinion, he had to have brainwashed her to some extent. However, I don't think she really had much of a bond with her kids and so it wasn't too difficult to allow Chad's "list" of light and dark beings convince her that her kids were zombies and needed to die.

They are both evil to the core, but Chad JMO is the not-so-bright brains behind the failed plan. He learned early on that a handful of people would buy his books because they were looking for some sort of apocalyptic reinforcement, and Lori fell right into that trap.

Had it not been Lori, I think it would eventually have been another woman and he would have tried the same control tactics with her -- the killings -- I think they were all his idea, and I think he got off on feeling as though he had the power to decide life and death.

I hope they lock Lori up for life, but I hope Chad gets the death penalty.

I agree with much of what you said except when it comes to the responsibility portion. A mother who puts themselves first and does not protect their children is the worst type of human being.

Lori had doubts along the way. Remember, she told MG, "if Chad is satan, he's a pretty good one". She could have taken her kids and walked away at any time.

 

[Leader6518]

I wonder how he talked Z into marrying him. IMO, his death was definitely pre-planned, but was it by himself, or who?

I think Z is just another con person.