Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2

[Tricia]

Hi @Tricia
This is a crazy one, huh?
Thanks so much for jumping in to help the facts stand out (as always).
Hope you're enjoying the holidays! Muah

Thank you but I don't know how much I helped. LOL.
This is beyond crazy. I go back and forth in thinking the children are alive or dead.

 

[BigAl16]

Thank you but I don't know how much I helped. LOL.
This is beyond crazy. I go back and forth in thinking the children are alive or dead.

I suspect, if not most, at least a large number of those following this case are going back and forth on that. MOO

 

[afitzy]

It should be the easiest to figure out why Alex died, because his autopsy was done right away. Tammy's cause of death will be a lot more difficult to figure out, because she was buried and then exhumed. It would be impossible to figure out why Joseph Ryan died because he was cremated. And of course we know Charles was killed by Alex by being shot twice in the chest but police apparently accepted the self-defense story. It think it will be a real shame if there are suspicions but no evidence.

I think we have dealt with the impact of body embalming on forensic analysis in other cases on WS, but, I don't remember all the involved issues unfortunately.

MSM details that the body of Tammy was exhumed and that forensic analysis will be undertaken. My concern is that Tammy's body might have been embalmed and that this might make forensic analysis associated with determination of COD difficult to impossible.

Understanding the COD of Tammy I believe will be critical to understanding the state of mind of Chad as well as the Chad/Lori relationship IMO.

Was Tammy poisoned over time possibly or was her death possibly the result of a single poisoning event? Will the autopsy results from Tammy death be compared with those of Alex (the description of his death with foaming at the mouth and release of body fluids and death occurring over a 10 min period) whose death seemed consistent with poisoning IMO.

The LDS main website details information on burial practices and states that embalming is acceptable. Does anyone know whether Tammy had an LDS funeral and whether her family followed LDS burial practices that might have included embalming?

I also wasn't sure whether the fact that Chad might have been in the process of being ex-communicated around the time of Tammy's death might have impacted how and where Tammy was buried. It is unclear whether Chads status in the LDS Church might have impacted Tammy and the rest of his family. IDK? Were Chad and Tammy part of a local LDS group/chruch at the time of her death or were they are the rest of the family shunned locally?

 

[Suglo]

True! Now I am a non-member but know many and am somewhat of an expert on the Fundamental LDS groups. (A relative played one on TV ha ha) While that's true, I have a handle on what's really going on as I've been part of a group including social services, attorneys and web sleuths, we managed a website detailing the crimes and activities, though I have forgotten some as the FLDS fiasco is years past and Jeffs is in prison for life.


The Foundation of the LDS church is set on prophecy, beginning when Joe had a business using a "Seer Stone" and he translated the Book of Mormon while looking at the stone in a hat, and from golden plates he said he found but never showed anyone. The first copy of 116 pages was discovered and destroyed by his wife Emma or his Scribe Martin's wife Lucy. So he had to start all over. Doh'!

With that background, the LDS have had a culture of speaking with God, and prophecy, and it's spawned dozens if not hundreds of people who step up and say they have God on a hotline. The most notable are the FLDS which while still has tens of thousands of followers, has lost it's cities and prophet to prison. The other big one is the Kingston group and recently two of their big players were sent to prison for defrauding the Govt for $500M in a fraud oil recycling program. Google em.

Lots of little pedo prophets out there and some caught some not. I could go on and on. Recommended reading: "Under the Banner of Heaven", by John Krakauer

All that said, I don't suspect Chad, or his author associates of going the plygger route, but definitely trying to edge in on the "prophet scam". You start making money or have a group because you have a hotline to the other side NDE or not, you are a goofball lying SOB taking money from LDS sheeple.

Our website details the FLDS and their various crimes down to their socks. Warning: You might get mad.

FLDS TEXAS

BTW this isn't anything sleuthable on the current case, it's just an FYI and example as too how an offshoot of the LDS faith can morph, though this one has taken about 80 years to get where it is. There are lots of MSM articles linked there.

I always wondered who put together this website. It has fascinating information. I spent days and weeks reading there in the past.

 

[afitzy]

Direct from her post on facebook group

Thank you for finding this information as it clarifies the scary situation Tammy faced in her own driveway.

 

[BigAl16]

The LDS main website details information on burial practices and states that embalming is acceptable. Does anyone know whether Tammy had an LDS funeral and whether her family followed LDS burial practices that might have included embalming?

I think embalming is standard burial practice in the US, isn't it? I don't know what they did for Tammy, but if it was the norm for the area (LDS or not) then I believe it would involve embalming.

The only thing that is considered normal-ish by the majority in the area in question and (to the best of my knowledge) the US in general that is not okay among Mormons is cremation. We had a discussion about this somewhere in the thread in the last few days (not sure what brought it up) and it looks like cremation *might* be slightly less frowned on than in the past, but if they exhumed her I think we can assume she wasn't cremated and was embalmed.

 

[Redvines86]

I think we have dealt with the impact of body embalming on forensic analysis in other cases on WS, but, I don't remember all the involved issues unfortunately.

MSM details that the body of Tammy was exhumed and that forensic analysis will be undertaken. My concern is that Tammy's body might have been embalmed and that this might make forensic analysis associated with determination of COD difficult to impossible.

Understanding the COD of Tammy I believe will be critical to understanding the state of mind of Chad as well as the Chad/Lori relationship IMO.

Was Tammy poisoned over time possibly or was her death possibly the result of a single poisoning event? Will the autopsy results from Tammy death be compared with those of Alex (the description of his death with foaming at the mouth and release of body fluids and death occurring over a 10 min period) whose death seemed consistent with poisoning IMO.

The LDS main website details information on burial practices and states that embalming is acceptable. Does anyone know whether Tammy had an LDS funeral and whether her family followed LDS burial practices that might have included embalming?

I also wasn't sure whether the fact that Chad might have been in the process of being ex-communicated around the time of Tammy's death might have impacted how and where Tammy was buried. It is unclear whether Chads status in the LDS Church might have impacted Tammy and the rest of his family. IDK? Were Chad and Tammy part of a local LDS group/chruch at the time of her death or were they are the rest of the family shunned locally?

I was wondering a lot about this, I was wanting to find out more about poison and autopsies and embalming, but I have been a little nervous about having that in my searches on my computer lol!

 

[Smoore36]

DBM

 

[indicolite22]

Here's what I take away from that post. If she made freezer meals at "Enrichment" that means that she at least was still active in church as of Oct. 9th. "Enrichment" is a type of homemaking meeting of local ladies in the church. Apparently at this one they assembled freezer meals. Do we have a date of when Chad was excommunicated? Also, she was dead 10 days after this incident.

It has not been officially confirmed that he had been excommunicated. The claim was published in a Daily Mail article, quoting "an expert in the religion's fundamentalist groups", later named as dr. Cristina Rosetti.

The man who police want to question following the disappearance of his two stepchildren was kicked out of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints this fall, an expert in the religion's fundamentalist groups said.

Man on the run with new wife was kicked out of the Mormon church for declaring himself a prophet | Daily Mail Online

 

[jjenny]

People poisoned over a period of time usually start having health issues over that period of time. My understanding that was not the case with Tammy. We haven't heard a thing about her having health issues before death. She visited her parents couple weeks before death, was in great spirits and was taking a Zumba class.
So my bet would be on a single event.

 

[Tricia]

Thanks for the guidelines, Trica! The Julie discussion has gone a bit off the rails and I'm all for stopping that discussion and getting back to focusing on finding these missing children.

However, just to let you know, she was interviewed in MSM before we started discussing her:
Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says
Doomsday Writer’s Friend Says He Prophesied Wife’s Mysterious Death

It seems to me that she might continue to insert herself into this case. Is it okay for future discussion rules if we discuss only what she has said
in MSM? I believe that would fit in the spirit of the TOS. But if you want her not mentioned at all anymore here I understand and will do my best to comply. Thanks!

Thanks Gardner1850.

If this Julia person is quoted in MSM about this case then yes of course. Otherwise, she is off-limits, the comments on whatever site she has landed on are off-limits.

 

[Maxxer500]

Just caught up reading 30+ pages, you guys are nuts! I'm in the process of drafting a response post to cover what I can, please don't move the thread yet! I have a ton of quotes I'm using, and moving the thread breaks them iirc. Thanks!

 

[tresir2012]

People poisoned over a period of time usually start having health issues over that period of time. My understanding that was not the case with Tammy. We haven't heard a thing about her having health issues before death. She visited her parents couple weeks before death, was in great spirits and was taking a Zumba class.
So my bet would be on a single event.

I seem to remember that Chad said she had a fit of coughing before she went to bed. She died in her sleep I believe but if this was a sudden death of a healthy person, what was put on the death certificate and why wasn't an autopsy done then anyway?
This seems strange to me. We know an autopsy has been done/ was done on Alex. With Joseph Ryan they have stated his death was a heart attack so maybe an autopsy was done for that one already too. MOO

 

[Maxxer500]

Alright, here's some ~2 days worth of posts I had responses to, but I read every post! Hopefully this provides some further insight into things, but if it doesn't don't hestitate to ask me follow-up questions. Just don't be surprised when it takes me a day to respond...

Maxxer, thanks for your input and I’m sorry for your loss! I assume your family has some contact with LE regarding the investigation into Tammy’s death? I feel like they should probably be made aware of the latest video with Julie Rowe (“Mischaracterization of Chad Daybell”) . The fact that she talks about how Chad supposedly “knew” Tammy was going to pass away before she did, and was even grieving her death before her passing might be of interest to them. She said they had multiple conversations about it.
She was trying to defend him but I think she just dropped him in a big vat of boiling water..

None of my direct relatives have contact with LE, but I believe some of the extended family does. Some of us have hired private investigators, who I hope would direct key info to LE. I spoke with my dad about what Julie has been saying online, and based on her history we think she's putting out a smoke screen. The idea that she's doing this to keep relevance is also possible.

"Three weeks before Tammy’s death, Rowe and Daybell called each other."
“And I asked him, do you still see Tammy dying? And he said yes I do,” said Rowe.
"Tammy was in charge of the finances and covers for Daybell’s books. Rowe said Daybell wanted to get out of the business, but Tammy wanted to keep going."
“He said I’m ready to get out now and Tammy doesn’t want to get out. When she passes, I’m done, I can’t keep doing this,” said Rowe.
Chad Daybell had a “vision” his wife Tammy would die, friend says

I hate reading this. If my uncle Chad knew Tammy would pass, why didn't he do anything? As this info is from Julie though, I wouldn't recommend accepting this as true just yet.

Obit says:
"Tammy is survived by her husband and five children: Garth Daybell, Emma (Joseph) Murray, Seth (Makayla) Daybell, Leah (Adam) Murphy, and Mark Daybell, who is serving an LDS mission in Johannesburg, South Africa."
I'm sure it has been discussed that all the children are adults elsewhere in these threads. But ...
So we have 5 kids. 3 of them the obit names their spouse (that's the name in parentheses) so they are married. Mark, who it mentions is on an LDS mission would be at least 18 (LDS missions used to be 19 year olds going for 2 years, but I think they might have changed it to 18 year olds for 2 years). In any case he is absolutely old enough to be a legal adult and CPS wouldn't be looking into him.
This leaves Garth. From what we see here we can't say definitively that he's an adult. However, I'd suggest that the names weren't listed in some random order. They aren't in alphabetical order. They could be from youngest to oldest, but that would make the oldest 18-20 with 3 younger siblings already married. Possible, but not likely I'd suggest. The more logical and also I suspect the normal way, would be to list oldest to youngest. I know that If I'm listing my siblings I do it that way (as do my parents and my siblings). I suspect that's typical although certainly there are exceptions.

This gets brought up every other page now it feels like, but the Daybell kids are all adults with their own lives to live. Garth is the oldest child, and Mark is the youngest. Emma, Seth, and Leah are all married with kids of their own. They're all doing okay, no one has to worry about their safety.

Yep, can't wait to see a discussion in court about how a 'vision' such as described by Rowe regarding Chad late wife isn't really the same as conspiracy to murder! Sounds like Chad was a 'man with a plan' regarding his late wife and had a clear 'vision' himself as to how he would move on with his life together with Lori but absent of the 'presence' of the mother of his 5 children "Tamara".
I realise the children of Chad are dealing with the grief of the 'sudden' death of their mother but its unclear what they are seeing in this situation that would lead them to be at all supportive of their father. The podcast narrative from Chad and Rowe alone on the topic of Tamara Daybell I would think would be sufficient to generate doubt in any rational person. IDK.
But, forgetting the children of Tamara, it appears Tamara had family that no doubt has questions about her sudden death. Are they assisting LE or has LE sought them all out?
Entire situation is unbelievable IMO.

It really is such a crazy story, so much so that there's been jokes that someone in the family should make a movie/TV series/documentary and capitalize. It will be interesting to see what arguements are used if/when this gets to court, if any. I don't know how much the Daybell kids know surrounding this story, and part of me wonders if that's intentional or not. LE has contacted some of my relatives to my understanding, but honestly with how much it seems Chad hid from everyone I don't know if anyone has info that APPEARS useful. It's possible someone knows something that relates to an unknown detail, but unless we're approached with said detail it can be hard to process everything.

Hi everyone, I'm new here, but have been following this case for a few days now since learning about it. It truly is heartbreaking.
I'm not entirely sure how much I should be sharing here so as not to be breaking any rules, but since the name of Julie Rowe has already been brought up in this thread then I feel somewhat more comfortable in sharing at least a little bit about some things I know in the hopes that perhaps it may be of use in finding the children and other persons of interest.
Julie Rowe, with the help of others, founded an organization a few years ago called the "Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund." If you do a quick Google search you'll find their website. Julie founded this organization with the intent of it being a means of providing "disaster relief." Her idea of disaster relief though is something of an end of days, apocalyptic, teotwawki scenario and her plan was/is to put in place the infrastructure, supplies, organization, and manpower needed to help "rescue" and bring people from a broken down dystopian world to "cities of light" where they'll find peace and safety. In other words something of an underground railroad system. If you look at the Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund website you'll see at the bottom of the page that one of the stated goals of her organization is to provide "places of safety." I don't know how many people are involved with her organization, or what resources they have available and put in place already, but I fear and suspect that this organization may be helping to aid and abet some of the individuals involved in this case. My own opinion obviously. I'm not an insider or anything, just a very concerned individual who has studied some of Julie Rowe's claimed experiences in the past, found a pattern of deception with her accounts, and tried to warn people off from following her. Again, these are just my own observations and opinions.
I really do hope and pray answers will be found, and that the children are safe.

THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED INTO, IF IT HASN'T ALREADY.

The Independence, MO mention sounds like an example of integrating mainstream LDS teachings into their visions. I don't remember the specifics, but think the mainstream Mormon story is that the Garden of Eden was near where Independence, MO is located and something in "the last days" was happening there (all the saints gather there, maybe). MOO.

You're more-or-less right. I personally was able to visit this area in late October with a friend who was interested in the LDS history surrounding the area. You have Independence, Adam-ondi-Ahman, and Liberty Jail there. All of which are considered LDS history sites by members.

@Maxxer500, I am really worried most about the missing children of course, but I have been getting worried as well for Tammy's kids. I doubt very much they have correct information concerning the penalties for knowing information or helping their dad. I have no faith the lawyer for Chad gave them good advice. They are good kids, socially awkward sure, pretty sheltered, and with no idea the federal laws they could be breaking. Do you think your grandparents could talk to Chad's parents about this? I think Garth would listen to them and then be able to talk to his siblings.

I hadn't thought about legal repurcussions for the Daybell kids. I know they were set up with a lawyer by Chad, but if it's the same lawyer Chad's recent statement is from there is some reason to worry. I don't really know what lines of communication might reach the Daybell kids, but I'll pass the word to the relatives and hopefully someone can get it to them.

There was talk a few pages back about the vision of tammy’s death being due to a car accident but that she didn’t go that way. Can someone clarify if there was a car accident that almost took, or should have taken Tammy’s life?

First Tammy was held at gunpoint without anyone knowing, now she was in a car accident too?!? I doubt she was, though as always it's not impossible. But I never heard anything about a car accident, let alone a life threatening one.

We know they weren't truthful about where Joshua was... But where did Lori and Chad indicate Tylee was staying?
"When investigators spoke with Vallow and Chad Daybell, they indicated Joshua was staying with a family friend in Arizona, but authorities later learned that Joshua was not staying with that friend, police said."
Missing children considered 'endangered' after police link disappearance to death of librarian

Tylee was and is (even in this thread) repeatedly forgotten. The welfare check that initially sparked things off was specifically for Joshua (JJ), and the relatives who called for the welfare check are not directly related to Tylee. She disappeared sometime September, but no one has a concrete last sighting. She has a confusing history regarding education (can someone clarify this for me? I keep seeing it go back and forth). All her known social media profiles have been inactive for a long time, much longer than she has been considered missing.

So... when did Lori, JJ, and Tylee move into an apartment in Rexburg? Is it possible Chad never even met JJ and Tylee? Did Chad move into the apartment with Lori when Tammy died?

It is totally possible Chad never met Joshua or Tylee, and that he didn't know of their existence until after marrying Lori. This is what the Douglas side of things hopes for, but with each detail it gets harder and harder to believe. It's unknown exactly when, but Chad did move in with Lori after Tammy's death. He was present for the welfare check, and lied to LE then with Lori about Joshua's location. Him moving in could have been right after the funeral, or after their marriage, and unless either of them or a specific Daybell kid says anything we won't know for sure.

Yeah, that's right. In the Thread One there was a home posted on Realtor.com we thought they bought. What's rather odd... would be that Chad / Lori married they moved into the apartments. Those apartments usually require a lease. Why move to apt when you own an empty house. Dead wife's ghost gonna spook ya? And what about their lease and Dec. Payment. Evicted yet? Lots of loose ends. And what cars are they driving? Police never put that out at all.

Chad and Tammy had one of their kids living with them when Tammy passed, and I imagine bringing step-mom in right after your mom died would be a pretty easy way to lose that kid's support. I don't know what's going on with the property, but might be able to find something out through family soon if I ask.

@Maxxer500 do you know if Lori ever personally met Tammy?

I'm not sure but I'm of the impression that Lori and Tammy had never met. Feel free to prove me wrong on this.

Bingo! I agree that money is a big factor in this case. Charles also has two grown sons, so I’m sure it’s a complicated situation.
Not sure if we can discuss Hector Sosa’s comments on the Eyes Open video with Julie Rowe, but somewhere in his custody battle comments, he dropped mention of “JJ’s money.”

Hector and Julie are two birds of the same feather, and I wouldn't be surprised if both of them are making things up to maintain relevance in media coverage. People like that really like the whole "No press is bad press" saying.

I found Tammy Daybell’s obituary and she seemed like a wonderful mother. Has anyone in her family made a statement? She seems totally forgotten in this story. The obit also lays out the relatives on her side of the family and the family’s movements between AZ and ID. I won’t link it because I’m not sure it’s allowed.

Tammy's dad (my grandpa) was contacted by multiple people (interviewers, LE) I believe, but he did not want his quotes being used anywhere. Unfortunately the one interviewer he gave brief statements to didn't respect that. Tammy's side of this story mostly has to wait until the results of the autopsy come back, which I'm estimating to be around January 7th. Until then, the most info we have is all about Lori and her history.

There are the 5 kids she and Chad had, all adults. At least one or two of them have commented on FB posts (Rexburg police's page and I think also Eastern Idaho News) making claims that the kids were fine or there was nothing nefarious going on, but then went back and deleted their comments. Why that was (they realized they didn't really know, or that what they said was going to backfire legally, or who knows).
We've also got a nephew who has been verified and commented in this thread who indicated the kids have kind of cut off Tammy's side of the family since she died (he is from that side).

Hi I'm the VI you referenced. Based on the timing of things, the Daybell kids started deleting FB posts/comments and started blocking people after they were hooked up with a lawyer by Chad.

People poisoned over a period of time usually start having health issues over that period of time. My understanding that was not the case with Tammy. We haven't heard a thing about her having health issues before death. She visited her parents couple weeks before death, was in great spirits and was taking a Zumba class.
So my bet would be on a single event.

Tammy exhibited health issues the night of her death, and I'm not aware of anything before then. Tammy woke up in the middle of the night she died, apparently coughing badly enough to cause her to vomit. Then when Chad woke in the morning he found her fallen out of bed and cold.

This is a bit unrelated, but I wanted to put it out there for further context.: Tammy visiting her parents a couple weeks before her death? It was apparently suggested to her by Chad. I forget what exactly he told her, but it was along the lines of "Your dead ancestors are telling me to tell you to visit your parents". If what Julie has said about Chad and her having 'visions' of Tammy dying soon is true, I wonder if Tammy's visit has something more to it on Chad's end.


HOLY COW! I had so many posts to read just to catch up, not including writing this response post. Thanks for continuing the investigation everyone, I hope there's some helpful info from Tammy's autopsy soon, even if LE doesn't let us in on it.

 

[Darling136]

Our new thread #3 is prepared and we will move in the next 10 minutes there (and close here)

Please remember the TOS and latest guidelines when moving

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3

 

[Darling136]

And ... closed!