Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

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luvhockey said:
I can't find where he said that in any part of that looong article. I've heard another family member, I think on the GH interview say it was the jeep registered to Charles Vallow, JJ's father.
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Third bullet down at the top of the long article.
 
tresir2012 said:
Did you look at the link? 3rd bullet down.

Have you got a link that says they are out of LDS church? Apart from Daily Mail. By kids I meant Tylee and JJ, the innocent ones in this. Also, there is no evidence they have broken the law yet or there would be warrants out so comparing them to the Mafia is a bit OTT. Also, where has it been stated in MSM or by LE that Chad thinks he's a prophet?
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I was saying people that break the law lose their membership. If any laws have been broken, they will be out of the church. We know nothing about Tylee and JJ's relationship to the church. I certainly think Chad and Lori are headed down a criminal path. Chad has said he was a prophet in the AVOW second paywall, I don't remember where we saw it. I'm just saying, as others are, the traditional LDS church doesn't have a lot to do with this. Chad and Lori are in an extremist fringe group. I think focusing our efforts on things like Chad's beliefs, Lori's belief's, Alex's whereabouts, etc., will help us find Tylee and JJ.
 
tealrose said:
I think it means that the shooter may not be his ex-wife, but is at minimum believed to be someone connected to her...

But there's another OMG detail there!

The shooting occurred immediately after he dropped their older children off at school... and handed the younger children off to her!

(I'm very curious about the rest of the filing...wow.)
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Take a look at the DM article third heading down.
 
tealrose said:
I think it means that the shooter may not be his ex-wife, but is at minimum believed to be someone connected to her...

But there's another OMG detail there!

The shooting occurred immediately after he dropped their older children off at school... and handed the younger children off to her!

(I'm very curious about the rest of the filing...wow.)
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Take a look at the DM article third heading down.
 
Redvines86 said:
I was saying people that break the law lose their membership. If any laws have been broken, they will be out of the church. We know nothing about Tylee and JJ's relationship to the church. I certainly think Chad and Lori are headed down a criminal path. Chad has said he was a prophet in the AVOW second paywall, I don't remember where we saw it. I'm just saying, as others are, the traditional LDS church doesn't have a lot to do with this. Chad and Lori are in an extremist fringe group. I think focusing our efforts on things like Chad's beliefs, Lori's belief's, Alex's whereabouts, etc., will help us find Tylee and JJ.
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If any laws have been broken they will be. So they aren't yet. And any law will cause this to happen? No exceptions? Do they hold a bishops court and then decide or is it automatic or something else?
 
Redvines86 said:
I was saying people that break the law lose their membership. If any laws have been broken, they will be out of the church. We know nothing about Tylee and JJ's relationship to the church. I certainly think Chad and Lori are headed down a criminal path. Chad has said he was a prophet in the AVOW second paywall, I don't remember where we saw it. I'm just saying, as others are, the traditional LDS church doesn't have a lot to do with this. Chad and Lori are in an extremist fringe group. I think focusing our efforts on things like Chad's beliefs, Lori's belief's, Alex's whereabouts, etc., will help us find Tylee and JJ.
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Breaking the law is considered sinful in the LDS church (I was born and raised in it, but haven't practiced in about a dozen years), but it's not grounds for excommunicaton. Redemption is key in the religion, so even someone convicted of a crime (short of murder, iirc, can retain their church membership. They may not be in good standing (ie, "worthy" to visit a temple, marry, etc.), but they aren't ex'd.

Also, a couple of comments ago someone mentioned a "high up" bishop making a plea toward them.. I don't think this would be effective since everything we've learned so far leads me to believe these folks will be very distrustful of authority outside their own splinter group... but even if it were, there are no such thing as "high up" bishops in this church. A bishop in the LDS church is the leader of a local congregation (ward), like a priest or pastor.

A "higher up" would be a stake president (over a group of local congregations) or an area authority (more like a bishop in catholicism). Then you have 12 apostles and a first presidency (prophet and two counselors). They're not likely to get invovled in something like this, not big enough and not enough known for them to be sure of keeping their noses clean (aka, don't want to say the wrong thing, innocent until proven guilty, etc.)
 
loganlocal said:
Breaking the law is considered sinful in the LDS church (I was born and raised in it, but haven't practiced in about a dozen years), but it's not grounds for excommunicaton. Redemption is key in the religion, so even someone convicted of a crime (short of murder, iirc, can retain their church membership. They may not be in good standing (ie, "worthy" to visit a temple, marry, etc.), but they aren't ex'd.

Also, a couple of comments ago someone mentioned a "high up" bishop making a plea toward them.. I don't think this would be effective since everything we've learned so far leads me to believe these folks will be very distrustful of authority outside their own splinter group... but even if it were, there are no such thing as "high up" bishops in this church. A bishop in the LDS church is the leader of a local congregation (ward), like a priest or pastor.

A "higher up" would be a stake president (over a group of local congregations) or an area authority (more like a bishop in catholicism). Then you have 12 apostles and a first presidency (prophet and two counselors). They're not likely to get invovled in something like this, not big enough and not enough known for them to be sure of keeping their noses clean (aka, don't want to say the wrong thing, innocent until proven guilty, etc.)
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This nails it, IMO.
 
Redvines86 said:
I was saying people that break the law lose their membership. If any laws have been broken, they will be out of the church. We know nothing about Tylee and JJ's relationship to the church. I certainly think Chad and Lori are headed down a criminal path. Chad has said he was a prophet in the AVOW second paywall, I don't remember where we saw it. I'm just saying, as others are, the traditional LDS church doesn't have a lot to do with this. Chad and Lori are in an extremist fringe group. I think focusing our efforts on things like Chad's beliefs, Lori's belief's, Alex's whereabouts, etc., will help us find Tylee and JJ.
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As of right now they haven't broken any laws because no warrants have been issued. So they must still be LDS members. They need to bring the kids to LE to show they are OK. If anything changes in next few days regarding the autopsies or this shooting attempt on BB, things could change. Perhaps they could leave the kids with a trusted church member or something. MOO.
 
BigAl16 said:
If any laws have been broken they will be. So they aren't yet. And any law will cause this to happen? No exceptions? Do they hold a bishops court and then decide or is it automatic or something else?
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No. I have broken lots of laws (speeding, for example) and even though I haven't been to church in 10 years, I am still on the membership records. To be excommunicated from the church, you have to either commit a sin of "gross iniquity" (sex crimes, murder, etc.), becoming involved in or advocate for polygamy, or commit apostasy (declaring yourself a prophet, advocating for women to have priesthood, saying joseph smith was faking it, etc.). You can even have personal beliefs that contradict church doctrine, but if you are trying to lead others astray, so to speak, that's when it becomes a problem. Think John Dehlin or Kate Kelly.
 
Redvines86 said:
I was saying people that break the law lose their membership. If any laws have been broken, they will be out of the church. We know nothing about Tylee and JJ's relationship to the church. I certainly think Chad and Lori are headed down a criminal path. Chad has said he was a prophet in the AVOW second paywall, I don't remember where we saw it. I'm just saying, as others are, the traditional LDS church doesn't have a lot to do with this. Chad and Lori are in an extremist fringe group. I think focusing our efforts on things like Chad's beliefs, Lori's belief's, Alex's whereabouts, etc., will help us find Tylee and JJ.
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Alex died on the 12th December and is presently undergoing an autopsy.
 
loganlocal said:
No. I have broken lots of laws (speeding, for example) and even though I haven't been to church in 10 years, I am still on the membership records. To be excommunicated from the church, you have to either commit a sin of "gross iniquity" (sex crimes, murder, etc.), becoming involved in or advocate for polygamy, or commit apostasy (declaring yourself a prophet, advocating for women to have priesthood, saying joseph smith was faking it, etc.). You can even have personal beliefs that contradict church doctrine, but if you are trying to lead others astray, so to speak, that's when it becomes a problem. Think John Dehlin or Kate Kelly.
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We're in agreement, Loganlocal. (I'll bet I know where you live. :) ) and I suspect our practical experience is comparable other than I, after many decades of letting them use my name to inflate their membership rolls, got upset enough a couple years ago to put an end to that.

I can see an excommunication in Chad's future because, like the examples you gave, these people were speaking out or drawing unwanted attention and the church didn't like what they were saying and, probably more important, were getting others to follow their lead. But unless Chad kept it quiet and he killed Tammy in the wake of his excommunication, it almost certainly hasn't happened yet.
 
renarde said:
Justin Lum says (in the comments) more documents have been obtained. "Stay tuned."

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
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This is what I want to read- more information!

We need to get back on track here and drop the back and forth over whether or not the church has made a statement or not about Chad and Lori or whether or not they are excommunicated.
 
Either way there are two innocent kids in this who definitely have not broken any laws. I just hope someone is in communication with Lori and Chad who can talk some sense into them, or if someone else has the kids, those people have the sense to contact LE.
 
BigAl16 said:
We're in agreement, Loganlocal. (I'll bet I know where you live. :) ) and I suspect our practical experience is comparable other than I, after many decades of letting them use my name to inflate their membership rolls, got upset enough a couple years ago to put an end to that.

I can see an excommunication in Chad's future because, like the examples you gave, these people were speaking out or drawing unwanted attention and the church didn't like what they were saying and, probably more important, were getting others to follow their lead. But unless Chad kept it quiet and he killed Tammy in the wake of his excommunication, it almost certainly hasn't happened yet.
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Ha. I made this account during the Lizzy Shelley case... but I actually don't live in Logan anymore!
I agree that there is likely an excommunication in the futures of Chad, Lori, Melani... possibly others, depending on how this all plays out. jmo, obvs, but that's where signs seem to be pointing. It is usually the excommunicated, not the church, who make their status public (if the former member doesn't announce it, the church will never mention it, if it isn't high profile, it'll probably just be local congregation gossip and nothing further)... so depending on where Chad and Lori end up in all this, we may never know. I can see Chad announcing it as a play-the-victim card (for sympathy).. but otherwise it's really unlikely it'll be relevant in this case, and in moo that's how it should be. .
 
Steelslady said:
This is what I want to read- more information!
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One thing I find interesting is that MB is reported to have told BB she was moving to Boise which is being spun as joining Lori and Chad's group in Idaho. Sure, Rexburg and Boise are in the some state, but they're around a 4 1/2 hour drive apart. For a reasonable comparison, would you say someone who moved to Washington, DC was doing so to be with someone who lived in New York? The driving times are comparable.
 
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