Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[LDS social scientist]

Regarding the "temple sealing" that Chad and Lori are proported to have done:

I agree with the LDS commenters here that this would be impossible through regular channels. And if it did happen irregularly, I agree that it's probably something that took place in their own minds or through some kind of "rouge" temple worker.

But I do think it's important to add that there are stories that float around within mainstream Mormonism that actions/ordinances which are beyond the norm sometimes do take place in LDS temples -- actions/ordinances that an ordinary member would not be privy to and that would be kept more-or-less secret from most others. These usually involve high church leaders and things ordinances like the "Second Endowment" or having one's "Calling and Election Made Sure."

I have no clue as to whether these things actually take place in LDS temples, but I've heard enough stories to know that wouldn't be a great stretch for some LDS members to not write off this quite unusual claim about Chad and Lori out of hand. At least there are those within mainstream Mormonism that would be excited to think that something bigger than the norm, even in temples is happening semi-secretly (explained more in my next post).

 

[sunflowerchick]

A few threads ago I mentioned how multi-level marketing schemes and what LE calls "affinity fraud" prospers in Utah and (to a lesser extent) Idaho. That this doesn't seem strange is part of the reason. In fact, it appears that the prepper groups, while not MLMs, are taking advantage of the same kind of tendencies to take advantage of their target audience.

MOO

I get what you are saying, and I mostly agree with you, but I think we need to be careful. There are PLENTY of members of the LDS church who use this type of terminology but aren't part of prepper groups, MLMs, cults, or anything else. While your post is fine, there are a few here recently who could cross a line into being offensive. The issue isn't HOW the employer approached her, the issue is what happened after and the most important issue is WHERE ARE JJ AND TYLEE?

 

[LakeHuronGirl]

Thanks, I do remember reading that one now that you post it. I believe it's OK to post as long as we link to the MSM source. Here's the link: Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

To me, the son calling CR and CR not answering the phone isn't the same thing as CR not calling them back. There are many reason not to answer a phone call. However, now that I read that again the son says first that he hasn't heard from Colby or Tylee, as if it would be normal to hear from them on other days/with other situations. I wonder if Lori had told Colby and Tylee something to isolate all the kids from one another? It seems like that was her pattern-- keep people separated and they can't compare the stories they've been told. MOO.

I deleted the photo. I was concerned I was breaking rules. Anyone can reference his facebook page in his Feb. 2nd post.

 

[Anonymous91]

I'm guessing that if you were married in a civil ceremony years ago that you'd need proof of that having actually happened before a sealing, correct?

Another question just occurred to me. When I was reading the esssay on the official LDS website about Joseph Smith and his plural marriages it talked about him being sealed but not married to some. I took that (maybe incorrectly) to mean that the theory is he would be with these ladies in the hereafter, but not prior. Does this kind of thing still happen today (sealing for eternity, but nothing for time)?

No, doesn't happen today.

This is what I understand can happen today. If a man's wife dies he can then be sealed to a second woman, if she dies, he can be sealed to a 3rd woman, etc.

However, a woman can only be sealed to one man. She can remarry though. MOO

 

[Sulamith]

Hi, a newbie here.

Have lurked from almost the beginning in this thread. But came for reasons that may be slightly different.

By inclination, I'm not a sleuther. I'll probably never go to any other WS threads. I came here because I noticed there was talk about Chad Daybell.

I perked up my ears on this case because over a decade ago I had just finished writing a series of academic papers on Mormon last days beliefs/speculations/ideas, particularly on how these beliefs might relate to current-day politics and ideas about particular places within the world. I happened to notice that Daybell was apparently just beginning to be involved in this much older genre. One of my most enlightening tasks (and discouraging at the same time, as someone who has never been into this stuff), was to compare LDS novels about the end times to evangelical Christian novels about the same topic (particularly the Left Behind series).

I never ended up reading Daybell, as that particular episode of my academic career ended just before I noticed his involvement in these kinds of things. I had thought that the most significant thing that would emerge from this genre was the election of Chris Stewart as a US congressperson from Utah. Stewart, unlike Daybell, was generally accepted within mainstream Mormonism (he had the imprimatur of Deseret Book, for example) and his series of novels about the last days seems to have been one of the things (in addition to his Air Force career) that put him on the map for election from Utah. Unfortunately, this Daybell case now is a second case where these last-days writings for an LDS audience helped to propel someone to greater fame.

I will stress that I am not an insider in this particular missing-children/etc case. My interest comes from three things:

a) being someone with social science/humanistic training who has long been interested in applying this training to understanding the LDS community

b) being an active LDS member

c) having some proximity to many of the places involved through life experience (Arizona, Utah, Hawaii, Idaho), though nothing that would give me any personal insight into the people involved in this case

I've been impressed by the discussion here on Websleuths, particularly in sorting out some of the distinctive LDS elements that may provide context to the case. I've seen many discussions elsewhere in which people on the differing sides of the LDS/non-LDS divide are unable to productively listen and talk to each other. Thankfully, that hasn't been the case here.

I do occasionally have a slightly different perspective than some of the other LDS commenters here, and so while I don't expect to be a frequent commenter, there are some things that have been floating around the discussion (esp. today) that I'd like to give my perspective on. So if you're not interested in this type of perspective, please just ignore me from now on.

Welcome! I hope to hear more of your perspectives!

 

[fred&edna]

I think the children have been seen more as possessions or bargaining chips. I don’t think their rights have even been considered. That’s if in the best case and they’re found alive, in the worst case then absolutely no thought has been given to their rights. They also have the right to stability, security, love, shelter and being kept free from harm, It appears they’ve failed on every level. MOO

ITA

Maybe both Lori and Chad had visions to explain away all rights and value of children (and anyone else that detracts them from their higher calling/s) or some similar crap. If religious freedom rears it's head in this ugly case... I will be sick. (I'm taking a prepper approach - nausea meds stocked).

 

[jjenny]

There are such things though. FYI
The 25 Best GPS Dog Collars & Trackers of 2020 - Pet Life Today

Yes, I realize that. But you can take off a collar or a tag with a GPS device.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I get what you are saying, and I mostly agree with you, but I think we need to be careful. There are PLENTY of members of the LDS church who use this type of terminology but aren't part of prepper groups, MLMs, cults, or anything else. While your post is fine, there are a few here recently who could cross a line into being offensive. The issue isn't HOW the employer approached her, the issue is what happened after and the most important issue is WHERE ARE JJ AND TYLEE?

BBM. Yes, we've had an issue with how the employer approached her. Jmo

 

[Anonymous91]

Yeah, I'd like to see the upkeep of those extensions now. I just watched those being done in the salon last week, I'd never seen anything like that (I know, I'm naive) and was gobsmacked at the original investment, the upkeep price, the care you have to take with grooming.....interesting to manage in jail until early March. And, just an aside, Hawaiians do not take kindly to people losing their children. I would bet LV's not having a good day in jail any of the days.

I agree. I spent time in Guam, family is everything to them. I have heard that they have LVD isolated from the other inmates, and I know why.

I'll say this, If I had a choice between being in prison in Hawaii and had to choose to be around male or female prisoners, I'll choose the males. The females don't fight fair, and that is why I am positive they are keeping LVD seperated. MOO

 

[FindingJoLee]

I get what you are saying, and I mostly agree with you, but I think we need to be careful. There are PLENTY of members of the LDS church who use this type of terminology but aren't part of prepper groups, MLMs, cults, or anything else. While your post is fine, there are a few here recently who could cross a line into being offensive. The issue isn't HOW the employer approached her, the issue is what happened after and the most important issue is WHERE ARE JJ AND TYLEE?

I really do think his approach was problematic. It transmits to the woman seeking the job that no other answer than "Thanks, I'll take this job" would be the right thing for her to do. Otherwise...why didn't he simply say "I'd like to offer this position to you?"

 

[jjenny]

Judging by Lori's niece, who apparently had a happy marriage, Lori can convince people of most bizarre things. It would appear Melani was somehow brainwashed to divorce her husband, marry some other guy, and now apparently is trying to get her kids back-good luck with that. Chad was also a master of convincing people to do what he wanted by claiming visions and talks with spirits. They are two of a kind as far as I am concerned.

 

[BigAl16]

I get what you are saying, and I mostly agree with you, but I think we need to be careful. There are PLENTY of members of the LDS church who use this type of terminology but aren't part of prepper groups, MLMs, cults, or anything else. While your post is fine, there are a few here recently who could cross a line into being offensive. The issue isn't HOW the employer approached her, the issue is what happened after and the most important issue is WHERE ARE JJ AND TYLEE?

You're right, of course. Con men and the female equivalents are looking to blend in and appear credible. They'd be unable to appear credible if there weren't others who were viewed as credible saying the same kind of things. And absolutely, finding the kids is the most important part of all of this. MOO

 

[LHS]

Judging by Lori's niece, who apparently had a happy marriage, Lori can convince people of most bizarre things. It would appear Melani was somehow brainwashed to divorce her husband, marry some other guy, and now apparently is trying to get her kids back-good luck with that. Chad was also a master of convincing people to do what he wanted by claiming visions and talks with spirits. They are two of a kind as far as I am concerned.

LDS-speak would call this "unrighteous dominion".
Using spiritual experiences to trying manipulate or coerce others into doing what you think they should do is a bit no-no.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

In my opinion - yes he has exploited authors, and he hasn't done business in a very legal way. He's in breach of contract with my friend not having given her back her legal rights, and not paying her royalties since he said he would and didn't. He's horrible at the business end of this.

Do you know if she ever dealt with Tammy on those business issues, or just Chad.

 

[BigAl16]

Judging by Lori's niece, who apparently had a happy marriage, Lori can convince people of most bizarre things. It would appear Melani was somehow brainwashed to divorce her husband, marry some other guy, and now apparently is trying to get her kids back-good luck with that. Chad was also a master of convincing people to do what he wanted by claiming visions and talks with spirits. They are two of a kind as far as I am concerned.

Umm. Nope. There have been others who have done the same thing since the beginning of time. MOO

 

[Moonbeam456]

Nope.

Interesting....

 

[Gardener1850]

I saw one photo, since it's in a yearbook can we post it?

We have to be able link to the original source and be certain it's her. If someone can find it on yearbooks.com or ancestry.com and link to that for anyone who has a membership at those sites to check, that might be allowed here. Posting a photo lifted from a fb discussion is not allowed AFAIK. Probably best to ask the mods before posting.

At one point early in this case I checked with a friend's Ancestry account and I saw some yearbook photos of A girl named Lori Cox but they came from a different high school (not Rialto) and I wasn't 100% sure they were her. Her name is too common to verify, unless it's from the same HS and yearbook year that was in the newspaper or we have another source indicating she went to a different HS for some years and transferred into Rialto her senior year (possible, but I can't confirm that).

MOO.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

BBM. So any member of a ward can look up the membership record? That makes more sense how it leaked. Jmo

Kind of. This listing in the directory (LDSTools app) will not show the full details of that person's record (ordinance dates, family members not in the ward, or temple recommend status), just their presence in the ward, contact info, class and calling assignments, etc. Any member who is moved out is removed from the directory portion of the app.

It is conceivable that a person could move their record into a ward without minor children. We'd need someone in the Oakbrook Ward of the Rexburg Idaho Stake to verify if JJ and Tylee's records are there (last known residence if LVD moved her own records and left her children there). (ETA: And also if they're moved to another ward, THAT new ward will be in the record there).

So, I think that Chad has been setting up the story he planned to tell his followers, AVOW or whoever they might be. I think it may go something like this: He went to the islands to grieve for his wife, Tammy, where she came to visit him to tell him he must marry Lori immediately in order to continue on with his great mission. He only married Lori because Tammy directed him too. Then he will spin all of the revelations he received/receives that although he and Lori have been persecuted (like all of the important men in the Bible and Book of Mormon) he will rise above to lead his great followers into the End Times.
I am no writer but I see this line of BS in his future. (Wow, am I psychic or something?) I guess what is most important is who would ever believe his line of BS?

Unless of course, there's some evidence of interactions between the two before Tammy's death, his move to Hawaii, etc., to imply conspiracy. Gee, I wonder if LE has anything to suggest that.

 

[sgjsnow]

Judging by Lori's niece, who apparently had a happy marriage, Lori can convince people of most bizarre things. It would appear Melani was somehow brainwashed to divorce her husband, marry some other guy, and now apparently is trying to get her kids back-good luck with that. Chad was also a master of convincing people to do what he wanted by claiming visions and talks with spirits. They are two of a kind as far as I am concerned.

Yes, and I’m inclined to wonder if some of these “revelations” in behalf of Melani and others in the group didn’t originate with Chad. I’m wondering if Chad is the head honcho revelation giver in this group. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

When the temple seal deceased people, how is that done? Do the same rules apply? Eg. Do the sealers have to find a marriage certificate?
Regarding the death of CV and TD, will they now be unsealed from Lori and Chad or left sealed to them? Sorry for all the questions.

This part is always confusing, i getcha. However, I do believe someone upthread said that Tammy has choices in her after life. Since this is such a strong LDS belief, how does that happen spiritually??? Are LDS feeling "right now" that Tammy is ok...or does she have to wait until he gets to the afterlife? But isn't this an area that still gives more to men than women? So i am adding questions to the above mentioned question.