Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[Gardener1850]

That makes sense in terms of who we know Lori was close to, but unless timing was a coincidence she was either there to help w/the disappearance OR JJ was disappeared because of something that happened that weekend.

But if she was there to take JJ someplace safe, why would Lori point LE straight to her? And now that she’s helping LE why wouldn’t she tell them where she took them. I’m wondering if it wasn’t M at all but some other woman that Lori’s never mentioned.

BTW, do we know for a fact JJ physically attended school on Monday 9/23? Is it possible he wasn’t unenrolled until Tuesday but didn’t show up Monday either?

Yes, we know for a fact JJ attended school on 9/23. The principal of the school has confirmed it. And Lori came to the school on 9/24 without JJ to unenroll him. She told the school she was going to homeschool him. Who was watching JJ on 9/24 while Lori went to the school?
And why even bother unenrolling him then when the school went on break 2 days later (starting on 9/26)?

Here's one of the interviews with the school Principal: Principal offers explanation about why Joshua "JJ" Vallow wasn't reported missing in September | East Idaho News

 

[Alpha Bravo]

This isn't part of her charges so it wouldn't apply. Personally, i want the bail to stay high. I am simply hashing out realities of the court system. I simply believe new evidence needs to be submitted as it relates to the charges as a safety measure so that the bail *doesn't* get reduced.

I'd like to think the judge is aware of a lot of details about the case that we as the public are not privy too. The current charges are serious enough to hold her. Since it's common knowledge the bail will likely be reduced in ID, and it appears she will be extradited very soon, I don't see it being dropped a dime.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I’m also wondering about the “friend” Lori and Alex brought back with them (allegedly from the airport) the day the babysitter stayed w/JJ. It was on Sept 19, a Thursday. The following Monday was the last time JJ was seen. The babysitter said the woman was introduced to her and did podcasts (according to the Probable Cause doc). I’m sure LE knows who she was, but she could be one of several people who’s name we know or someone else completely.

Whoever she is, this woman apparently flew to Rexburg right before JJ disappeared. If JJ was taken into hiding, this woman may well be the one who took him there.

Quite possible but I keep going back too if the children are alive why not give LE proof and make all this go away? The public does not need to know their location, the grandparents were not seeking custody until JJ’s where about became a mystery. It is not illegal to not be with your children if they are still being properly cared for so why not cooperate ?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I could certainly see that he wasn’t as confident without Lori. Marcus seems a really good candidate to be reporting on CD as he’s the first one to actually get a vocal out of him, I’d like to see him follow him around for a bit. I wonder if he could get him to talk a bit more.

Justin Lum and Nate’s reporting has been brilliant, they’ve both been amazing and I don’t think this case would have half the publicity it does without them. For some reason though CD wasn’t as confident around Marcus. I wondered if it was because he was a big guy, quite imposing. Did it make CD more uneasy?

Whatever has happened to those kids though both CD and LV appear to feel superior/righteous in their actions. They don’t seem to think they have done any wrong. It’s just bizarre. MOO

Chad doesn't seem to be as much the hard nosed, lying sociopath that Lori is, but he is in this up to his neck.

 

[Christ is Truth]

Now that I look at it closely the reporter's facial expressions (of confusion and disbelief at what Chad is saying/not saying) are wonderful as well (my comments/observations below):

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Are the kids OK? Do I see a smirk from Chad? Duper's delight?

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Chad continues his poker-faced expression while Marcus stares him down...

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Then Chad inexplicably offers his hand to Marcus and Marcus looks confused as to why he is shaking his hand... (I'm confused too Marcus!)

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Marcus still in a state of confusion and concern, inquisitively asks --anything you want to say about your wife? Chad continues his grimace/poker face expression where he pulls his lips inward-- sign of a bluff or holding back, IMO.

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"Just grateful for any support... " What support are you talking about Chad? Do you think Marcus is a fan of yours? Is that why you shook his hand?

"We just have to wait for the legal process to work through." Uh, Chad? No you don't. You could tell where the kids are and this would go away more quickly. You could urge Lori to confess and confess yourself if you had a part in any crimes. Justice would be swift but there might be some mercy in it for you and Lori. But "waiting" for the legal process makes it sound like you have no choice and no options. Very clever there Chad. Nice try. We see through you. The Emperor Has No Clothes. MOO.

Good Morning America on Twitter

That’s a great breakdown of the interaction! I would argue the handshaking thing was because he was nervous and/or was letting Marcus know that the conversation was over. CD strikes me as an introvert and really not comfortable in his own skin (as opposed to Lori, who is too comfortable). MOO

 

[kye0001]

Sociopathy, is likely the product of childhood trauma and physical, emotional abuse. Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain limited circumstances but not in others, and with a few individuals but not others.

Most serial killers are survivors of childhood trauma.

Most killers of children are also survivors of childhood trauma.

Lori is obviously responsible for some heinous acts. I see no remorse in her. People are not born this way but become this way through their environment. Unless she has brain damage?

It would be very unusual for her to be a killer and not have suffered some sort of abuse, neglect, or trauma during her childhood.

Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)


And your niece did not turn out to be a murderer; there are other factors at play; however, making this sort of statement does admit that environmental factors are at play. Childhood trauma is a very good indicator of issues later in life. Very few murderers had a good upbringing without any sort of serious stressor, childhood abuse or neglect.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying as I’ve read quite a lot about it and understand that it’s true. However there’s a lot of people that have gone through abuse, childhood trauma and some pretty horrific life changing events that don’t go on to become killers. Even those who haven’t accessed counselling and therapy. They may be scarred by the events that happened to them but they still function, work and become good parents without furthering the abuse cycle.

To me and IMO it’s too easy to say that she may have MH issues, may have suffered abuse as it justifies or excuses her actions. We all make choices and have to face the consequences of our actions. What makes some survivors of abuse killers when it doesn’t to others? MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

Can she say something if she gets verified?

Yes, that is another way! Good point. Anyone who has inside info can become a Verified Insider here and then post the info they know. But you must be connected to the case players (I don't think it counts if you just got to know the people in the case after this all unfolded). Verified Insiders don't have to give a source for their info and we are not allowed to argue with them (we can ask VI's questions for clarification but cannot attempt to discredit them or be rude to them if we disagree with their info). So that's another route to get info posted here if it's not in the MSM. MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

That makes sense in terms of who we know Lori was close to, but unless timing was a coincidence she was either there to help w/the disappearance OR JJ was disappeared because of something that happened that weekend.

JJ's disappearance could have been planned in advance. He was last seen the following Monday. We don't know when the woman left. If it was MG, then she is very likely not involved, otherwise she would not go to police herself. Her information about that visit could be valuable.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Con Air (JPATS) is only for federal suspects / convicts. For example, Michael Avenatti. He was flown to NYC from CA on Con Air about a month ago. He was then convicted on three federal felony counts, extortion, wire fraud, honest services.

EDIT: That said, there may be federal charges in the future, for cross-border crimes like Tylee in WY, conspiracy to murder BB in AZ, Charles in AZ, Tammy and JJ in ID, etc.

If the FBI is involved because of multiple jurisdictions and missing children, can local LEOs request Con Air delivery?

 

[NvrEndgStry]

Dang! Records all the way back to August 1 of last year for both of them. I’m very curious why they’re going back that far in time.

https://scontent.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn....=b9ae79821f7fd38ce150cb0fcae53950&oe=5EF572D7

Oh, boy, didn't realize until I just read the subpoena paperwork that any info the landlord has in regard to CD is required as well.

THAT'S SO AWESOME!

 

[kye0001]

Chad doesn't seem to be as much the hard nosed, lying sociopath that Lori is, but he is in this up to his neck.

I agree that he doesn’t seem as hard nosed, I agree that he’s in it upto his neck just as much as Lori. I’m not so sure that’s the reason why he talked though (admittedly he didn’t say much, certainly nothing useful). The VIs that knew him have all said he wouldn’t like to be thought badly of, he wouldn’t be comfortable with the negative press. I suspect that has a lot to do with it. ‘Thanks for the support’...I’m intrigued who he thinks is supporting him. Maybe he means he feels like he needs support? MOO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Sociopathy, is likely the product of childhood trauma and physical, emotional abuse. Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain limited circumstances but not in others, and with a few individuals but not others.

Most serial killers are survivors of childhood trauma.

Most killers of children are also survivors of childhood trauma.

Lori is obviously responsible for some heinous acts. I see no remorse in her. People are not born this way but become this way through their environment. Unless she has brain damage?

It would be very unusual for her to be a killer and not have suffered some sort of abuse, neglect, or trauma during her childhood.

Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)

It's obvious to me Lori has APD (antisocial Personality Disorder) and it may be she is a mix of being a psychopath, sociopath narcissist. Some or much of it may be learned or via life experience. "Among persons who display APD, those called psychopaths are distinguished by a nearly complete inability to form genuine emotional attachments to others; " Such seems to be the case with Charles, JJ and the dog Bailey. Plus, her being on her 5th marriage, well I see 5 red flags.

REGARDLESS - if your point is to feel sorry for her for her "supposed" childhood trauma, NAH... There is actually zero anecdote of that... if so perhaps she can bring it up at her trial.

 

[indicolite22]

Chad doesn't seem to be as much the hard nosed, lying sociopath that Lori is, but he is in this up to his neck.

Not only he lied, he asked others to lie to police for him. Lying to his own parents that Lori didn't have minor kids seemed strange. What was the purpose of that?

 

[utahobserver]

The whole town home thing has its own mysteries. When the 5 (Lori, AC, Tylee, JJ, and MB) came up (I think 9/1 - 9/2) they only got two town homes. So I'm guessing that Lori and the kids were in one, and AC and MB were in the other. MB later actually moved her stuff up in early Nov (with help from AC - per the private eye), so I assume that's when she got her own town home (the third one).

What's always bugged me is, why did Melani get a third unit unless AC and Lori we're each planning to be staying in Rexburg for at least several more months (and or returning to live there)? Maybe a better way to phrase that is: if Lori knew she'd be leaving in early Nov (December at the latest), and AC was planning to marry ZP in late November and immediately book it back down to AZ, why didn't one of them just share their town home with MB for a month (or less)?

Some thoughts below because I have to bring it back to basics for my mind to clear.

IP is listed as having a unit in this complex. I always assumed that was why they chose this complex. Initially, they all shared the same lawyer as well. So units were:
175 - Lori
174 - MB/IP
107 - Alex

We know Alex abandoned his rental in AZ when they moved to Rexburg. (Trask’s excellent find, Thread #17, page 13). Thus he no longer had a place of his own in AZ.

The Woodcocks blew their plan. After November 26 things take on an accelerated frantic pace. They all left Rexburg abruptly on or about 11/26 after initial police contact. Phone calls to MG asking for cover, Lori and Chad head to California then on to Hawaii. The marriages needed to happen fast - Alex, Melani and IP head to Vegas. Alex changes his name to Pastenes and moves back to AZ to live with ZP; MB/IP back to Rexburg as newlyweds.

MB appeared to start cracking around November 2 with manic FB posts. Then she and Alex go to Orem, UT twice: 11/12 and 11/14 to try to get her kids. (when she is arrested). Where they planning to abduct the children? Were they somehow failing in the mission to get the kids? Two weeks later they all flee Idaho (11/26). In another two weeks (12/12) Alex will be dead.

Questions:
What was Alex doing during the 2 weeks before he died? Who was he talking to? Did he think he could hide under the cover of his new name?
Did IP/MBP think they could hide in Rexburg under the guise of newlyweds?
Was MB close to Tylee? They are about 15 years apart in age. Same basic difference as Lori and MBP. Wouldn’t that weigh on her conscience?
Who else in Rexburg is in this group?

Failures:
Shooter failed to kill BB - October 2
Shooter failed to kill TD - October 9
MBP fails to obtain her children

MOO - MBP is the nut to crack. She knows the plan. Lori trusted her. She can cut a deal if she talks.

 

[SeattleStew]

I'm laughing so hard I'm literally crying!!!

 

[indicolite22]

I agree that he doesn’t seem as hard nosed, I agree that he’s in it upto his neck just as much as Lori. I’m not so sure that’s the reason why he talked though (admittedly he didn’t say much, certainly nothing useful). The VIs that knew him have all said he wouldn’t like to be thought badly of, he wouldn’t be comfortable with the negative press. I suspect that has a lot to do with it. ‘Thanks for the support’...I’m intrigued who he thinks is supporting him. Maybe he means he feels like he needs support? MOO

He is hoping to return to the AVOW forum where his customer base (aka his supporters) is. Maybe he's referring to them and not to the general public.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Okay, so this might be petty, but CD seems to be chunking up again since his juice squeezer has been in the pokey.

His shirt just might be fitting him soon- in time for the next court date

 

[OGDiva]

What do we know about the defense? Was this particular charge anticipated? Would that explain the “baggie” of cash (possibly) $10,000, the “expected” amount of bail, based on the “expected” charges or probable cause affidavit for extradition? I don’t know...MOO.

What a picture this paints! Lori knowing that she could be arrested at any time, keeping her anticipated bail money in a baggie. Just in case because you never know, right?

 

[BigAl16]

Dang! Records all the way back to August 1 of last year for both of them. I’m very curious why they’re going back that far in time.

It may just be an arbitrary date that is back far enough to be sure to get whatever is pertinent, but imagine if there is something from back in August? Not Lori so much, but Chad or (even more so) both of them. If they'd stayed there together or even in separate rooms, but at the same time, that would seem to indicate something. MOO.

 

[natsound]

It's obvious to me Lori has APD (antisocial Personality Disorder) and it may be she is a mix of being a psychopath, sociopath narcissist. Some or much of it may be learned or via life experience. "Among persons who display APD, those called psychopaths are distinguished by a nearly complete inability to form genuine emotional attachments to others; " Such seems to be the case with Charles, JJ and the dog Bailey. Plus, her being on her 5th marriage, well I see 5 red flags.

REGARDLESS - if your point is to feel sorry for her for her "supposed" childhood trauma, NAH... There is actually zero anecdote of that... if so perhaps she can bring it up at her trial.

That disorder sounds spot on. This interview with Cheryl, Charles Vallow's former wife, paints a picture of a noticeably troubled Lori:

Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News

“She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl recalls.

Nothing suspicious or criminal was ever found on the video footage, Cheryl said, but she said something wasn’t right with Lori. During child custody hearings, Cheryl says Lori seemed to enjoy being in court and “all the drama” surrounding it.

“Lori was also in a custody battle with Joseph Ryan, and it was so intertwined that the judge combined our cases altogether in the courtroom,” Cheryl recalls. “It was quite odd, but she loved it. That’s when I learned she doesn’t do what she’s told to do if she doesn’t want to. I saw that a lot in court.”