Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #27

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Authorities screwed up by not doing autopsy right away. Like sheriff pointed out, they didn't need permission from family, coroner could have ordered it.
Coroner in Idaho is an elected position, and this particular coroner only has High School diploma, not even B.S., let alone M.D. Not sure how she is supposed to be figuring out if death is suspicious enough to order an autopsy, but Tammy was a fairly young woman with no history of health problems. If autopsy was done right away, and blood was collected right away, it would have been easier to figure out what killed Tammy. Now it might be impossible.

True, but with the FBI involved they have the best forensics techniques and technology at their disposal. I think this is a big reason they are there. Financial forensics, data forensics etc.
 
As a mom of a special needs kid, Everything I learn about this story makes me hate LV more. Oh how I pray the truth comes out soon and that justice is served.
This story honestly is one of the most bizarre I’ve heard. Such a cast of characters. I can’t seem to keep or catch up. MOO
 
I respect your opinion. I would ask then why wouldn't they crop out Alex, too?

Since AC is standing right behind Tylee, it probably would've looked odd to crop him out, leaving just a sliver of him there. People would've wondered who it was. Also, dead people have no privacy rights, so leaving him in wouldn't have been a concern in that respect. Might also be sending a message to whoever was cropped out, as someone else pointed out. MOO
 
I didn't see if this article was posted in the discussion threads yet:

Now that bail is reduced, will Lori Vallow-Daybell get out of the Idaho jail?

8 Mar 2020

[...]

A bail bond agent, who’s not involved with that arrangement, broke down what it would take:

  • $1 million in home equity
  • $80,000 in cash, nonrefundable
Supporters may be pulling together to put their homes on the line, said Angie Proulx of Bronco Bail Bonds in Boise.

[...]

Another way to secure her release, according to Proulx, is what’s called a property bond. Attorneys and judges work out the details -- $1 million in equity in Idaho property is still required, but Vallow-Daybell would avoid the $80,000 charge. The process takes two to four weeks, Proulx said.

Of course, she could also put up $1 million in cash.

Now that bail is reduced, will Lori Vallow-Daybell get out of the Idaho jail?

BBM. I was assuming that if she hadn't made bail by now she would likely be staying in jail but if Chad has enough property owners who are willing, he might be working on the above plan to get Lori out. Making a note for future reference: 2 weeks after her initial hearing would be Mar 20 and the day after her Preliminary Hearing scheduled for Mar 18-19. If they rush paperwork through somehow we could potentially see her make bail right before the hearing. 4 weeks after the initial hearing would be Apr 3rd. I wonder if info at a prelim hearing could affect bond or if it will stay the same and she could still bond out afterward? I hope that prelim trial info somehow leads to Lori being held for trial with no bond unless she tells where JJ and Tylee are located, but I don't know how feasible that is to hope for. I also don't know if Idaho laws allow that for the charges she is currently facing. Any thoughts?
IANAL but was thinking the same thing, holding her until the kids are produced... seems like the right and just thing to do, but perhaps doesn't fit into the law as we would like. In two other high profile cases recently, multiple cases came up and bond was already high, and kept where it was despite the additional cases, but in Weinstein's case it was raised to 5m from 1m for bail violation, (violated bracelet monitoring requirement dozens of times) and then Avenatti's bail was simply revoked and he was arrested for violating bail conditions (wire fraud etc)... Both those cases entailed just the violation of bail however, not previous crimes.

Interesting that they can avoid the $80k fee by going direct to the court with crowd funded RE pledges of $1m, (taking perhaps 2 weeks for title reports and paperwork), instead of $80k + $1m in RE pledges. Wow if you've got that $1m in RE pledges, $80k is a pretty expensive vacation for two weeks, and you are going to be holed up in a house anyway. (Guess you get to use lots of makeup and play with your hairstyles tho)
 
If this question is out-of-bounds, somebody tell me, and I'll do a quick-delete....

In "looking up all the players" on the periphery of this case, has anyone come across one with a criminal history, or maybe just someone with the same name who has a criminal history? Someone who is not a named suspect or victim and therefore not on the list of people we can really talk about (at this point)... ?

Last night I started a list if things we assume but can't confirm - then I deleted it. We have pinned a lot on AxC, but sometimes I wonder if there is another person involved that's not on our radar. We still have the 10/2-3 issues where AxC can't be in two places at once. Was there a 5th person at Yellowstone?
 
You know Chad's attorney has to be advising him to hold back in case he needs that money for defense. Unless Chad hid some of the life insurance money, they've gone through a good bit if you look at what they said his average daily balance was. $132k. She's hired 3 attorneys. Can't be cheap.

This has ended up to be one very expensive wedding. Wonder if the photographer has given Lori the full book of photos yet.[/QUOTE]

I don't think we can assume that it is the ONLY account he has. My husbands parents passed away in recent months and we are dealing with multiple accounts - annuities, IRA's, 401ks, pensions, stocks, properties, etc. It is feasible he didn't put all the money in a checking account (that would be foolish given the mega low interest rates), and/or that Tammy had an IRA or an annuity or something.
 
Since AC is standing right behind Tylee, it probably would've looked odd to crop him out, leaving just a sliver of him there. People would've wondered who it was. Also, dead people have no privacy rights, so leaving him in wouldn't have been a concern in that respect. Might also be sending a message to whoever was cropped out, as someone else pointed out. MOO

BBM. I'm hoping for lots of "message sending" this week. :) jmo
 
Circumstantial evidence holds more weight in court than most people think. Hypothetically, if Tammy died by poison and the police were to arrest Chad for her murder, here is some of the evidence we already know about:

1. Chad was sleeping in the room where Tammy died and claims he didn't notice her fall out of bed and die on the floor until hours after her death. The Medical Examiner or an expert in the type of poison she died from can be put on the stand to detail what her death would have been like and the improbability of Chad sleeping through it or witnessing part of it and not calling 911.

2. Chad declined an autopsy. While the sheriff maintains the coroner had the final say, the specific conversation between Chad and the coroner has been kept under wraps. He may have said something that seemed convincing at the time that turns out to be very damning when her cause of death is discovered.

3. Chad told others that he had a vision of Tammy dying before it happened. While our main source of this (Julie R) is iffy for credibility, if she is going to be a witness or if he told other people the same thing, it could be used as evidence of premeditation.

4. Chad may have been having an affair with Lori before Tammy died. At the very least we know there was some shenanigans going on. Lori goes from reading his books to going to conferences where he is speaking, then she is doing podcasts with him. Then she is sending video of herself dancing. And then there's the whole fake email address in Charles' name set up to send Chad a forged letter from Charles, the purpose of which seems to be to give Chad an excuse to get away and come see Lori in Arizona... Something tells me that those emails are the tip of the iceberg in the digital trail between Lori and Chad prior to Tammy's death (and prior to Charles' death too).

5. Chad increased Tammy's life insurance before her death.

6. Tammy and Chad's entire financial picture, including their past bankruptcy can be presented as evidence. If it's true what Julie R said about Chad telling her he and Tammy were struggling financially, then that can be pointed out as a financial motive.

7. Chad moved out of the home he shared with Tammy the day after her memorial service. He supposedly claimed he was going to Hawaii to grieve and for business (editing a book). We don't know when he really left for HI. Hypothetically, if he lied about when he was going to Hawaii and why, and instead went to live with Lori then it's circumstantial evidence of a cover-up.

8. Chad immediately began removing all reminders of Tammy from his life after her death. He told his in-laws he would probably never visit. He told his kids he wanted to sell the house and close down the book publishing business he and Tammy had built since 2004. But even more telling is that he started to talk about this "new direction" before Tammy died, allegedly telling a stranger on an airplane on Sept 19th that he wasn't going to be writing those end-times books anymore.

9. Chad seemingly hid his marriage to Lori at first. When the police came to ask about JJ, he made it seem like he barely knew Lori and didn't know her phone number, while he was actually already married to her. He apparently told his kids that he met Lori in Hawaii while working on book or editing a book for someone and they spontaneously decided to marry while there. He told them about marrying Lori sometime after the wedding happened.

10. The letter Chad wrote to GRI/AVOW after Tammy's death. We can't see this entire letter but the rest could be revealing. What also may be revealing-- when did Chad first write it? His computer may have the answer.

Here's some ideas for evidence LE may have that we know nothing about:

1. How the poison was administered to Tammy. If it was slipped into something she ate or drank, there are a limited number of people who had access to her to do that.

2. Evidence showing knowledge of the poison used. There could be internet searches. It could have been something in one of Chad's books somewhere. Or there may be someone who taught a wilderness survival class and showed Chad which plants were poisonous and that person can testify that he had knowledge of the poison.

3. Evidence showing access to the poison or when it was obtained. Was it a household chemical that was found in the Daybell house? A plant known to grow in their yard? A prescription drug that he had access to?

4. The 911 call when Tammy died. This is being withheld as evidence in the case. I've wondered before-- did Chad possibly decline to do CPR? Did he show knowledge that Tammy had been dead for a couple hours at that point? He is not a doctor, so how would he know her time of death for certain unless he witnessed it happen?

5. Texts, emails and phone calls may reveal a lot more than we expect. Even deleted messages can be recovered sometimes.

6. The masked man with a gun encounter 10 days before her death. We know nothing indicating Chad had any part in that, but that doesn't mean LE has no evidence connecting him to it. Someone had to tell the shooter approximately when Tammy would be arriving home, where to stand, which direction to run off, the best place to park a getaway car or to get picked up by another accomplice, etc.

7. Where was Chad and what was he doing while he sent Tammy to visit her parents? The answer to this could be revealing.

8. Why did Chad fly to Mesa, AZ on Sept 19th, the same day Lori got a babysitter for JJ, told the babysitter she was going to the airport and then returned with a podcaster woman?

9. The storage CCTV. If that's Chad on video on certain days it could reveal some things.

10. LE Surveillance of Lori may be revealing of Chad's movements. Gilbert PD started surveiling Lori Nov 1st in the investigation into BB's attempted murder.

MOO.
Wow. Great job laying all of this out. The prosecutor should have this list! It seemed worrisome to me that Tammy could be discovered to have been murdered but LE wouldn’t have sufficient evidence to convict her killer. The way you lay it out here, you’re right, circumstantial evidence does seem enough, in this case, to convict. MOO
 
I wonder if Tylee wanted to be emancipated. Hadn’t Colby been emancipated?
I'll tell you who I think does know something about how Tylee saw her life unfolding, is Colby. He said in his talk with Justin Lum that he and Tylee would chat quite often, and that he was functioning in a bit of a mentor role for her.

He also, IIRC, said that when left to his own devices JJ would reach out to him by video (?) chat 20 times/day (I'm guessing on JJ's special iPad, recently found by the police with Lori), in much the same manner that Larry and/or Kay reported that JJ used to ring them multiple times a day for a 2-3 sentence check-in.

She (Tylee) also had at least one friend who has been interviewed by print media at least once. The friend's mother used to post here in the very early days, and before she left, said that her daughter was worried near into hysteria about Tylee as time wears on (and, I presume, as the daughter starts to figure out the unlikelihood of Tylee coming back - she's a teenager, not an elementary school student), and just what that might mean. :(
 
Oh, I thought of more. Add to list #2 above:

11. Info from BB's PI hired after the attempted shooting on Oct 2. The PI was hired to find Melani and the Jeep which belonged to Charles Vallow on Oct 13th. Tammy died on the 19th. While Chad may not have been involved in this plot on BB, if the PI was surveilling Lori (who had possession of the Jeep) those 5 days he may have info about Chad's movements and communications as well.

12. The 43 items that were collected from the Daybell home during the warrant, including “computers, cell phones, journals, documents and medications." We have no idea what is in all this evidence.

13. The content of the podcasts Chad did with Lori prior to Tammy's death. These have been removed from the public but LE could obtain them with a warrant and the fellow podcasters, whom we haven't heard from in the media, may have incriminating knowledge of Lori and Chad's interactions while not recording. At the very least, we know Melani Gibb is cooperating.

14. Chad's message board postings and communications with his friends online both before and after Tammy's death. Even if those in the "cult" are loyal to Chad and not talking, the things he wrote to others on private forums or private messages can be obtained with warrants and may come back to bite him.

15. Chad's church membership status and/or things he told members of his church before and after Tammy's death. He either stepped down from his calling or was asked to leave it after his marriage to Lori. While clergy may be allowed to keep a confidence under the law, that doesn't apply to volunteer church workers or fellow members. Chad would have interacted with several people in Springville and Rexburg just to plan Tammy's funeral and memorial. Those interactions could be witness testimony if there was anything unusual about his behavior or requests. And if he didn't interact with people he would be expected to, but had one of his kids or someone else make all the arrangements that could also be telling.

16. Testimony from Tammy's family members. We know Chad lied to Tammy's family about Lori's children. Did he tell any lies to Tammy's family about her death? At the very beginning of this case it was reported that Tammy had a "4 hour autopsy" when she died. That turned out to be bad info and it turned out Tammy didn't have a first autopsy at all. It could have simply been a media error in reporting. But what if it was a lie from someone who would not want Tammy's family to know that he declined an autopsy? Any attempts to cut Tammy's family off from her kids and blame her family for the police investigation, may also be revealing.

MOO.
Gardener, do you ever sleep?

Very grateful for all you do! Well reasoned and insightful.
 
Since AC is standing right behind Tylee, it probably would've looked odd to crop him out, leaving just a sliver of him there. People would've wondered who it was. Also, dead people have no privacy rights, so leaving him in wouldn't have been a concern in that respect. Might also be sending a message to whoever was cropped out, as someone else pointed out. MOO
My thought was that they are looking for people who may have seen them on Sept 8th, and if they cropped out Alex, then someone who may have talked to him or saw him acting strange or something would not come forward if they didn't specifically remember seeing JJ and Tylee. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.
 
As a mom of a special needs kid, Everything I learn about this story makes me hate LV more. Oh how I pray the truth comes out soon and that justice is served.
This story honestly is one of the most bizarre I’ve heard. Such a cast of characters. I can’t seem to keep or catch up. MOO
Does anyone know status of her bail for today
 
ha! ha! yeah, there is the gun origin... but I think it became more colloquial to tell a woman not to cry about something. Reminds me of another powder phrase. When I moved to the South, people would say rather rudely "just take a powder". This comes from these little packets of of pain killing powder that you can buy in stores down here!!
Ha! I’m born and raised in the Deep South and I haven’t heard of either phrase. Learned something new.
 
Earlier this morning, (on another sm site) someone posted an observation ....
They were wondering if any of this could have been prevented if Charles' death had just been investigated properly.

I have read a lot of information, as I am sure most of you have, so I wonder do we actually know for a fact that the investigation in to Charles Vallow's death was completed/dropped/closed? I cannot find anything stating one way or the other.

If it is still an open investigation, then it is possible that it is part of the bigger picture and much more is going on in regard to how it correlates. I realize a lot of folks are upset about how they perceived this investigation was handled, and I am hoping that it is still ongoing and not just carelessly placed in a box and stamped closed.

I think everything surrounding Charles's murder, before and after, would be critical to LE as they search for answers
. *LVD's actions seemed to be continuously spiteful towards him.

If this has already been discussed/disputed, I must have missed it and apologize.
 
Does anyone know status of her bail for today
No word as of yet, it's early still, I bet Chad is trying to crowd fund $1M in RE equity, but even if he gets it now he has to sell the idea to Lolo to stay in jail an extra 2 weeks while he pledges it to the court instead of a BB. (Which will cost him a cool $80k for her near immediate release) That's IF he can even round up the RE and IF he can get a BB able to play ball. His pockets are dry when looking up at that tall green $1m bail.
 
Authorities screwed up by not doing autopsy right away. Like sheriff pointed out, they didn't need permission from family, coroner could have ordered it.
Coroner in Idaho is an elected position, and this particular coroner only has High School diploma, not even B.S., let alone M.D. Not sure how she is supposed to be figuring out if death is suspicious enough to order an autopsy, but Tammy was a fairly young woman with no history of health problems. If autopsy was done right away, and blood was collected right away, it would have been easier to figure out what killed Tammy. Now it might be impossible.
Idaho - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think per the law the sheriff is ultimately responsible: "If a death occurs that is not attended by a physician and the cause of death cannot be certified by a physician, the coroner must refer the investigation of the death to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police of the city...The investigation shall be the responsibility of the sheriff or chief of police . . ."

Requirements for coroner in Idaho are more stringent than some other states.
 
Earlier this morning, (on another sm site) someone posted an observation ....
They were wondering if any of this could have been prevented if Charles' death had just been investigated properly.

I have read a lot of information, as I am sure most of you have, so I wonder do we actually know for a fact that the investigation in to Charles Vallow's death was completed/dropped/closed? I cannot find anything stating one way or the other.

If it is still an open investigation, then it is possible that it is part of the bigger picture and much more is going on in regard to how it correlates. I realize a lot of folks are upset about how they perceived this investigation was handled, and I am hoping that it is still ongoing and not just carelessly placed in a box and stamped closed.

I think everything surrounding Charles's murder, before and after, would be critical to LE as they search for answers
. *LVD's actions seemed to be continuously spiteful towards him.

If this has already been discussed/disputed, I must have missed it and apologize.

"The Chandler Police Department told EastIdahoNews.com the investigation in Charles Vallow case remains open. It has been hampered though, because on Dec. 12, Cox died in Gilbert, Arizona."

Court docs, body camera detail aftermath of shooting that killed Charles Vallow | East Idaho News

They initially considered it a case of self-defense but have since said it's open. JMO... they either didn't do a great deal of investigating OR they were very very slow in their investigation.
 
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