Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

[carbuff]

Miss the CBS ‘48 Hours’ special on Lori Vallow Daybell? Here’s where you can read the entire transcript
Miss the CBS ‘48 Hours’ special on Lori Vallow Daybell? Here’s where you can read the entire transcript
CBS has published a transcript of the episode

By Herb Scribner@HerbScribner May 19, 2020, 9:00am MDT

Oooh thanks. My hard of hearing ears and old eyes are glad for that!

 

[Drc40]

The "Chaos Defense". Interesting.

JMO
I think the prosecution has to be careful too with this case because they inadvertently may cause this case to be more confusing to the jurors than it needs to be. Its going to be hard for the prosecution to summarize this case and not confuse the jurors.

IMO, I think the prosecution fell into that trap during the Casey Anthony trial. I have always felt that when they called some of their experts and went into very long days and days of the detailed analysis from their science experts on some of the testing, they totally lost the jury during some of that. I know for sure they lost me and at the time it was happening, I kept yelling at my TV for them to wrap up that part and get to the point. They had so much testimony about lab tests and other science experts that they lost the message they were trying to get across to the jury.

I dont think that was the sole reason they lost the case but it sure did not help them IMO.

Right on! It’s so easy to bore the jurors. In all my civil cases we’ve been very careful to avoid unnecessary “data”. Jurors are regular people and don’t always relate well to mounds of minutia. In the King Richard trial they never disputed the data, just the players. The prosecution spent crazy amounts of time feeding the jury a sleeping pill.

I didn’t follow the Casey Anthony trial but sounds like the same classic prosecution error. In these types of cases criminal lawyers can take a lesson from civil. Seems like prosecutors over present in criminal cases. Too much data confuses and bores jurors. Hopefully Woods doesn’t go that route and simply presents the evidence without mounds of boring data.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Not to worry: he’s getting behind the scenes help.

From who?

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Each side usually reveals their experts, resumes and reports without having to file a motion for discovery. Reading between the lines its possible Means might not be fully cooperating in this regard.

RSBM
If this were a "normal" case how much back and forth is their between a prosecutor and a criminal defense attorney before a preliminary hearing? Are their offices in touch with each other daily? Monthly? Are they chatting on the phone or is everything in writing?

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter


[URL='https://twitter.com/jlumfox10']Justin Lum Fox 10
@jlumfox10[/URL]

“She’s lost her mind, I don’t know how else to say it.” Hearing Charles Vallow for the first time. The former husband of Lori Vallow asked Gilbert PD for help, claiming Lori locked him out. Fox 10 obtained full body cam footage of the encounter happening 5 mos before CV’s death.



12:23 PM · May 19, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

 

[Drc40]

RSBM
If this were a "normal" case how much back and forth is their between a prosecutor and a criminal defense attorney before a preliminary hearing? Are their offices in touch with each other daily? Monthly? Are they chatting on the phone or is everything in writing?

I don’t know about criminal case interactions between the lawyers but in civil cases, even contentious ones (which aren’t?), there is reasonable decorum between lawyers/staff. They know what they have to produce and many times don’t want to run up charges for frivolous motions they know must be complied with. The lawyers themselves might not speak often but the paralegals and research staff does which eliminates lots of needless court time. In many cases the lawyers paralegals know as much about case specifics as the lawyers themselves. They often communicate especially as a trail date or motion hearing is close. The real engine behind a good lawyers operation is the staff.

 

[KonaHonu]

I'm confused, too. Why do you think Lori's lawyer refused the judge's request to move up the preliminary hearing? After all, if the charges can't stick, she could have moved through this phase much sooner than July 7.

Also, I'm wondering what your definition of "objective corroboration" is. Would you mind sharing?

I have no explanation for that. I have no doubt she will be bound over for trial and once she is discovery will start.

 

[nyvictoria]

I’m not sure if there has been one. I don’t know much about what happens here once you’re arrested and placed at the women’s center. I would hope that’s part of the initial booking process but I truly don’t know.

I’m not an attorney and have never been to jail but I think a very cursory “mental health evaluation” would be done only to ensure someone is not a suicide risk. Between the overcrowding situation that exists at most county facilities and Covid, at this point it’s probably just a question: “Do you feel that you might harm yourself?” AFAIK if the defense decides to pursue an insanity strategy then that would open her up to examination by an expert chosen by the State. Perhaps someone knowledgeable about this facility can weigh in on this.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I’m not an attorney and have never been to jail but I think a very cursory “mental health evaluation” would be done only to ensure someone is not a suicide risk. Between the overcrowding situation that exists at most county facilities and Covid, at this point it’s probably just a question: “Do you feel that you might harm yourself?” AFAIK if the defense decides to pursue an insanity strategy then that would open her up to examination by an expert chosen by the State. Perhaps someone knowledgeable about this facility can weigh in on this.

Thank you! It is a women’s facility and from what I know (which is little since I’ve never been to jail) it isn’t usually crowded and holds a smaller number than most. Jmo

 

[nyvictoria]

IMO, at times, it seems as though Means is there just to keep plates spinning in the air while the attorneys in Arizona bear the weight of swaying public opinion in advance of and building a defense to what is likely understood by Lori and her family as the greater threat here.

The missing and endangered children drives the substantial interest of many of us in this case, but not simply because two kids are missing (as bad as that is). Some believe this may be a case of a mother eliminating her kids so she can have an unencumbered life with a new man. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened and, if it is ultimately found that is what happened here, it likely won't be the last.

IMO, in this case there may have been stronger motivation: parties involved - including Lori - may have caused the kids to disappear (whether dead or hidden) to prevent them serving as potential witnesses against the various parties to at least some of the crimes still under investigation - Conspiracy to Commit Murder in the deaths of CV and TD (and possibly JAR) as well as Conspiracy to Commit Attempted Murder in the failed attempts to shoot BB and TD (before her later death "in her sleep").

At or around the time CV was killed, Lori fled the scene with both of these child-witnesses, did not contact police or emergency services to contain dangerous parties or treat injured parties, and later returned to the scene with only one of the child-witnesses (TR), and Lori's demeanor was strange relative to the events that had occurred. Those, by themselves, are suspicious acts and behaviors.

There are elements of the statements to LE given by Lori and TR which don't align with AxC's claims or which don't make sense in light of their other claims (e.g. Why invite CV into the house if he is so mean, nasty, and potentially violent? Why not meet somewhere neutral? Why take and withhold his cellphone from him - potentially escalating his anger - if he is so potentially violent that you invite your brother and his gun to the house in advance of CV's visit? Why do all this risky and potentially escalating provocation with JJ sitting outside in a car waiting to be taken to school?).

JJ has been captured on surveillance in Rexburg dramatically and repetitively uttering words which seem like the kind of words that could have been shouted at him at the time CV was shot. Witnesses at the school/summer camp he attended at the time have been interviewed and we do not know everything they had to say about JJ's behavior or the things he said to them the morning of the killing. What we do know is that JJ wasn't present to speak with LE at the scene or later at the police station and that Lori was the one who'd removed him at that time.

Killing or otherwise eliminating witnesses to prevent their testimony is a "special circumstance" which elevates the crimes to a higher level with more severe penalties.

I wish we had a little heart button so I could more than like your post! This is the big picture that Summer, Janis and Melani are so desperately trying to obscure with their cheap talk about “mother of the year” Lori.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Thank you! It is a women’s facility and from what I know (which is little since I’ve never been to jail) it isn’t usually crowded and holds a smaller number than most. Jmo

Here’s the EIN link about the jail: Lori Daybell won't be back in Idaho for 'a few days.' Here's how she'll spend her time at the Madison County Jail. | East Idaho News

From the article:
The Madison County Jail can hold approximately 100 people and often houses federal inmates. The facility has room for around 20 women but if more space is needed for females, the jail can be reconfigured.

 

[Spartygirl]

It crossed my mind that the prosecutor filed this request for discovery because he knows that Means is inexperienced and unlikely to know what he should be giving the prosecution, so it's to avoid delays when they get to July. That would be extremely unusual though, but then again so is the fact she hired an attorney with no advertized experience of handling a criminal case.

moo

BBM- Especially after her 2 other attorneys quit LOL

 

[Trouble1321075]

We know from the probable cause affidavit that Gilbert PD detective Hermosillo had Lori under intermittent surveillance since November 1st while investigating the attempted murder of BB (see item 7 on page 3 of affidavit): READ: The documents charging Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

A neighbor that lived on the other side of Lori also said in an interview that police knocked on his door about a week before the welfare check happened: Missing Idaho children’s mom fled the night before FBI raided home, neighbor says

Also, LE hasn't really told us, but I suspect that by mid Nov there was a heavy joint LE investigation into the attempt on BB, the murder of Charles and Tammy's suspicious death. Had Kay not requested the welfare check, who knows how this whole case would have played out, but they were being investigated by multiple LE agencies already at the time that Kay requested a welfare check on JJ. It's no easy thing to get search warrants for 3 residences and the help of the FBI in a typical missing kids case right after the first welfare check of a child who hasn't even been reported missing by a parent. Local LE had warrants and asked for FBI help with the search for JJ immediately once it was clear to them that Lori, Alex and Chad lied to them about JJ's whereabouts and had fled the state of Idaho. I believe that search warrant came together quickly because of all the other investigations that had been going on up to that point.

MOO.

I suspect there is an avalanche of information thats not being shared by LE with the public.
As an example of what I mean. We know Tylee had her own phone. It does not matter if tracking is turned on or not. They can get the location of that phone going back months if not years. They can do that on all of their phones. From that they can determine when she disappeared and where her last known location was. They can also determine everyone elses location at that time.

 

[KonaHonu]

RS&BBM.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Why would a preliminary hearing only be about felony charges and not include misdemeanors? Misdemeanors are a crime too, no? So if "The preliminary hearing is basically a hearing to see if the prosecutor can present sufficient evidence that a) a crime has been committed and b) the defendant committed the crime" then why wouldn't evidence of misdemeanor crimes be allowed?

In Idaho they apparently don't do preliminary hearings for misdemeanors. Everything they have positive evidence for - obstruction, etc. are misdemeanors.

Secondly, in regards to discovery of the prosecution and defense, no, they are not exactly the same. The prosecution didn't challenge Mr. Means' subpoenas "because they were effectively demanding discovery before there was a preliminary hearing," rather, they were primarily challenging the subpoenas because 1) he was asking for stuff that was irrelevant to this specific case (i.e. he was trying to collect what evidence they have about possible murder charges, when Lori hasn't been charged with murder in this case, and also what evidence they are gathering against Chad when Chad is not currently being charged in this case), 2) he was demanding information that isn't in the possession/jurisdiction of prosecution (i.e. he was asking them to provide evidence that Arizona LE might be gathering for potential charges), 3) he was asking for information that he should be discovering himself - essentially he was trying to get the prosecution to do his job for him, 4) many of his requests were overly broad, vague, and unduly burdensome on prosecution - he was essentially fishing for anything and everything that might come out against his client, now or in the future. I'm sure there's probably other things they challenged Mr. Means on, but I don't see their discovery being exactly the same as his was. JMO.

Yes, they claimed it was overly broad, which of course it was.

 

[carbuff]

For people wondering about the status of Yellowstone Park, this article appeared in the Bozeman newspaper last week. It doesn't mention searches specifically but I would assume law enforcement activities are exceptions to the rules. All the roads to the Norris/Old Faithful area seem to be open now. So I'm going to guess they are searching--and aren't likely to announce anything to the public.

Yellowstone to open Wyoming entrances Monday; Montana entrances remain closed until at least June

 

[Spartygirl]

If you are talking about defense...not too many days ago, people commented on defense is reading here and some posters had some relations to the defense. These defense relations were posting. I have missed several days because of WiFi issues so I do not know who these defense posters are...maybe someone with more knowledge cN chime in.... jwirh. (Just what I read here). Thanks

Oh WOW-- I am on here every day and did not read about that . I must have missed a few posts or pages, although I do try to read everything posted.
Now I want to go back through to see if I can pick them out--or.... someone can direct me LOL

 

[Onsdag]

Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter


Justin Lum Fox 10
@jlumfox10

“She’s lost her mind, I don’t know how else to say it.” Hearing Charles Vallow for the first time. The former husband of Lori Vallow asked Gilbert PD for help, claiming Lori locked him out. Fox 10 obtained full body cam footage of the encounter happening 5 mos before CV’s death.



12:23 PM · May 19, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

For some reason I'm not finding or seeing the video in any of those links.

It looks like they've uploaded the bodycam footage to their YouTube channel though:

ETA second video:

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Oh WOW-- I am on here every day and did not read about that . I must have missed a few posts or pages, although I do try to read everything posted.
Now I want to go back through to see if I can pick them out--or.... someone can direct me LOL

Same! I haven’t seen this but would love to see it.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Kim Powell on Twitter


[URL='https://twitter.com/KimPowellTV']Kim Powell
@KimPowellTV[/URL]

We got our hands on new body camera footage from #Gilbert PD showing Charles Vallow expressing concern that his then-wife, #LoriVallow, had "lost her reality." He also claimed she threatened to kill him. I'm going through the footage now. Full story tonight on #azfamily!



2:38 PM · May 19, 2020·Twitter Web App

 

[Daylily]

I don’t recall hearing Lori and Charles had a nephew living with them when she took his truck and clothing and locked the doors. Is the Zach mentioned AdC son or another nephew? (Charles talks about him in the new bodycam footage released today).