Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

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Right?? Why is Lori, the God, whiling away her time in the county jail? Shouldn’t Chad be scrambling around trying to raise the cash to bail her out? Isn’t she vital to the end time plan? That’s why I doubt either of them are truly dedicated to any religious beliefs.
The fact that Chad wasn't able to raise enough collateral to bail Lori out tells me that there's no wider conspiracy in this case. Yes, they have supporters, but they aren't willing (or able) to put their money where their mouth is - not even family on either side.
 
I would almost lay money on LVD's defense angle. AC did it. But then that brings memories of her and Chad getting married and living in Hawaii at resorts and expensive rentals just 2 months or so after they disappeared. Sept. 8th, 2019 for Tylee and Sept. 23rd for JJ. How do you let your brother kill your kids LVD? To walk into a court with a smirk, smile or laughter was dumb. If you finally say someone is holding them ransom, hopefully, someone well, whatever.
BBM. She's only being accused of abandoning her kids ATM. She can't blame AC for that. Even if she claimed that he hid her kids for her and made all the arrangements, that wouldn't explain her lack of worry after he died.
 
Not that I think CD has one iota of guilt about Tammy's death and his subsequent speed marriage to LVD in Hawaii, but...perhaps CD is getting rid of stuff that reminds him of TD. Maybe there is a twinge or two of possible remorse, possibly missing TD a bit. She was quite awesome. And now, CD doesn't even have his sexy tidbit, LVD at home any longer.

CD may be getting rid of stuff, so he is not reminded that he used to have a wife who wasn't in jail.


I never thought of it like that. I guess it just seems suspicious because of who we are talking about. The OP would not give anymore details other than she is an employee of the landfill and she has seen this with her own eyes.
 
Just hope it doesn’t help her insanity defense.
Idaho Code 18-207 – Mental Condition Not a Defense — Provision for Treatment During Incarceration — Reception of Evidence — Notice and Appointment of Expert Examiners
Current as of: 2018 | Check for updates | Other versions
(1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
(2) If by the provisions of section 19-2523, Idaho Code, the court finds that one convicted of crime suffers from any mental condition requiring treatment, such person shall be committed to the board of correction or such city or county official as provided by law for placement in an appropriate facility for treatment, having regard for such conditions of security as the case may require. In the event a sentence of incarceration has been imposed, the defendant shall receive treatment in a facility which provides for incarceration or less restrictive confinement. In the event that a course of treatment thus commenced shall be concluded prior to the expiration of the sentence imposed, the offender shall remain liable for the remainder of such sentence, but shall have credit for time incarcerated for treatment.

» Idaho Code 18-207 – Mental Condition Not a Defense — Provision for Treatment During Incarceration — Reception of Evidence — Notice and Appointment of Expert ExaminersLawServer
 
My guess would be the time between her second husband walking out on her and their son and her marriage to Joseph Ryan. The second possibility would have been the time of the 2005 bankruptcy, when she went from a large, well-appointed house to nothing. But there doesn't seem to be anything after her marriage to Charles that would qualify.
Perhaps. But there are no indications of bottomness for at least 10 years before 2018. That seems a long time before any trauma to have happened
 
I'm confused. The preliminary hearing is basically a hearing to see if the prosecutor can present sufficient evidence that a) a crime has been committed and b) the defendant committed the crime. It only applies to the sole felony, not the misdemeanor charges.

So, where we are right now is that the courts have NOT determined there is sufficient evidence that a crime has been committed and further that Lori likely committed any crime. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt the court will make that determination. But these things have to follow a strict process. As of today Lori is presumed innocent and no evidence has been presented against her by a prosecutor. The only evidence that a court has seen against her is the statements of a police officer. That is enough to get an arrest warrant but not nearly enough to charge a felony absent objective corroboration.

So it seems out of place to me for the prosecutor to be initiating discovery for the exact same reason that the prosecutor challenged Mean's subpoenas because they were effectively demanding discovery before there was a preliminary hearing to establish probably cause. Their own document describes itself as a discovery request.

There is a statement lawyers sometime use: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." I personal think this is an unrecognized logical falacy in the modern scientific world. In science we rely heavily on testing for absence to draw conclusions. If you are tested for a disease and test negative, a lawyer could make that argument but would be fundamentally wrong. Yet this line of thinking is still taught in law schools.

If you read the police application for the arrest warrant it is based almost entirely on absense of evidence - there is no evidence the kids have been seen since September, no evidence Lori has provided support, no evidence anyone has them... A lazy police officer out to get Lori could have simply overlooked exculpatory evidence and went to court to make those sworn statements truthfully.

The bar is MUCH higher at a preliminary hearing. I'm sure she will be bound over for trial but it's far from a slam dunk if all the prosecutor has is absence of evidence. I think that his demand for discovery right now is because he wants to be able to cut off any possible defenses now. But that is beyond his right. If Means complies with that order I think it will constitute reversible error. Lori does not have to reveal her defense stratgy until the trial, except possibly under Idaho rules if she plans to claim mental illness.
So because there is no evidence the kids have come to harm, they are ok. Is that what you are saying? She has been given a court order to produce the kids and has not done so. That is the offence. There is nothing to show she is supporting them. She could produce evidence that they are alive and that she is supporting them.
 
I thought he was removed from his exec secretarial position ...a good while before new marriage to Lori??? I thought that we had had a lot of communication about his probably excommunication, though there would be no way to know about that for sure.

If I recall correctly, the misunderstanding comes from the Daily Mail (likely) misunderstanding LDS "cult" expert Christina Rosetti (who has been mentioned here before in connection to other news reports as well) incorrectly and surmising that he had been excommunicated. I think it was later revealed that she had not told the Mail that she had any knowledge of his excommunication, but that given his actions that were known by December, excommunication was a likely outcome. I trust Rexburg Sleuth much more than the Daily Mail on this, especially since Rosetti has apparently acknowledged that the Mail didn't correctly represent her on that point.
 
Perhaps. But there are no indications of bottomness for at least 10 years before 2018. That seems a long time before any trauma to have happened

I generally think hitting "rock bottom" is something much more likely to be individually perceived rather than easily detected by others based on what we know of their circumstances. It could have been a spiritual rock bottom that Lori felt that few other people would have any way of knowing about. Of course, referring to hitting "rock bottom" is also a trope designed to accentuate the point one is making. It's entirely possible that she just wanted to be able to make a claim about God's goodness in her own life in order to better fit in with the podcast theme (and among religious believers generally) without anything actually backing that up.
 
Notable IMO, this footage allows us to see CV’s demeanor AFTER he has already dealt with his return trip being canceled, his having to buy another ticket, his truck having been removed from where he’d left it so he had to find another way to get home from the airport, his account being emptied so he won’t be able to make payroll, and no one answering his calls. Despite all that, in his statements to the LE officer, he sounded worried about Lori and about the kids. Then, at the house, he discovers the locks have been changed, so he has to break in to gain access, and once inside, he learns much of his stuff has been removed.

CV remained calm throughout. Despite all those circumstances that would test the patience limits of most any person, I saw none of the mean, nasty, occasionally mildly violent man that Lori described in her various statements to police. What’s more, there was no vilification of Lori; there was only concern about her and confusion about how quickly things seem to have unraveled.
Completely agree. How spooky was that walking around that house in the dark and not knowing what you could find. Also, it was LE who eventually kicked in the door, nothing like what Lori and MG described in their interview.
 
Wow it's heartbreaking to hear his voice. A few things that stuck out to me:

-Charles said there a rifle in the house, but he doesn't know if she knows how to use it. (~10:30)
-There was a 19-year-old nephew staying there. (~12:26) (Around 12:50 he says Lori's got him "buffaloed" too.)
- On a lighter note, I laughed at the way the police were coaching him how to break into his own house. :D (~16:00)
And then ending up doing it for him. :)
 
BBM: So, (1): any ideas on who were the "Utah people"?

(2), what about "going on for four or five years" (!!)?

I think this seems likely to mean "Lori involved in PAP/AVOW" and that those were the "Utah people", than it does mean "Lori directly involved with Chad", but; who knows at this point??
Chad and Tammy were originally from Utah. They had only been in Rexburg for about 4 or 5 years IIRC.
 
Oh wow, I can't believe we missed this. What despicable people...

Lori's sister and mother say that's nonsense. They claim Lori stockpiled JJ's medication, so he didn't need that pill bottle found by police. And as for Bailey?

Janis Cox: I don't think Bailey's an issue, as far as JJ is concerned.

Jonathan Vigliotti: There's a lot going on that just doesn't add up —

Janis Cox: OK. I — I do know about the dog. I was over there a lot. Charles loved Bailey. JJ was not really attached to it—

Summer Shiflet: He was fine without him.

So basically... "somebody" "thinks" Bailey is/was a pet.

Isn't that conveeeeeeenient???

Clearly Bailey was needed; because clearly JJ is autistic; and we've seen his unguarded, untended reactions on the infamous Ring camera footage, when he had no Bailey.

Plus, what about Kay's (? I think) statement that Bailey was supposed to keep JJ from getting out of bed and leaving the house at night?

IMO CBS missed a golden opportunity to return to Bailey's trainer and ask what the dog was trained to do; though perhaps too deep a dive is against HIPAA, because it sounds like nonsense to me.

Charles and Kay have told us that Lori said she "cannot handle" JJ.

In case we wonder what Lori meant by this and can't trust the evidence; people have already helpfully pointed out that Lori's showing up in Hawaii with Tylee and not JJ, proves independently that Lori in fact couldn't handle JJ; which means that someone (or some pet) has to.

Lori also separated JJ from his iPad with the calming apps on it, which JC never bothered to mention (probably "Grandma-of-the-Year" doesn't know of its existence); so there's another strike against Lori, because to hammer the nail home once again, Lori has removed every support pillar from JJ that (it now seems likely) Charles was the one to push for.

Not to say that few to none of these things actually helped JJ; for all we know, all this stuff helped him, and the only reason JC is saying it didn't is because circle-the-wagons around Lori. But now I'm starting to wonder if the Cox family is anti-doctor/medical treatment in the bargain; because it certainly doesn't seem like Alex believed in regular physicals, assuming he in fact did die of natural causes, because it's also starting to seem weird to me that Alex's trucking employer didn't require their truckers to have regular physicals.
So SS says JJ was fine without Bailey. So when did she see JJ without Bailey to determine how OK he was? It had to be after mid August when Bailey was returned to the trainer, and before 23 Sept when she last heard from Tylee in a birthday text. And we know that he was at school until that date.
 
Right?? Why is Lori, the God, whiling away her time in the county jail? Shouldn’t Chad be scrambling around trying to raise the cash to bail her out? Isn’t she vital to the end time plan? That’s why I doubt either of them are truly dedicated to any religious beliefs.

I just think neither Chad nor Lori had any sense of money and the earning of it, at all. Lori was "taken care of" by both Joe and Charles for sure. Chad was basically "taken care of" by Tammy's running the business. But going bankrupt, and never really making real money anyway was the steady state for years. I just believe that they met, and each fed the worst in each. And voila a way to make money and fabricate their future. I know people rank either Charles or Lori as the greater enemy........ I just feel it was a mutual explosion, and was fed and fueled by the love of mammon...
 
A very small transcript, about a minute long, from the first video (about 2:30mins to 3:20mins):

31st Jan 2019

Officer: So she’s speaking as a spiritual being?

Charles Vallow: She’s not here, she’s lost her reality.

O: Is this just all recent or has it been going on?

CV: It’s been going on for about 4 or 5 years, it’s gotten really, really bad lately. She goes to the temple every day and speaks with Moroni and Jesus Christ and they tell her what to do. And now she came here today and last couple days she says I’m not Charles, uh ‘you’re not Charles, you’re Nick Schneider’. I don’t know where she gets these names from. She’s got all this stuff, these people in Utah who tell her how many past lives she’s had, and probations she’s had, and she was married to Moroni back way back when, she was also married to James the Just in a…

O: Okay this is all foreign to me.

CV: It’s just as foreign to me…

O: Well I’m not LDS

CV: It’s crazy stuff.

O: And are you using LDS terms here?

CV: Yes, but it’s just she’s, she’s non-sensical.

"She goes to the temple every day and speaks with Moroni and Jesus Christ and they tell her what to do. "

So for Moroni, we read Chad. She married Moroni didn't she? So this is the Gilbert Az Temple that she visits every day?
 
Perhaps. But there are no indications of bottomness for at least 10 years before 2018. That seems a long time before any trauma to have happened
The Hawaii businesses were dissolved/delinquent. From the timeline -

28 September 2016 – Lori dissolves one of the 3 Hawaii business entities (Juice Island - Lihue LLC). The other Juice Island LLC’s are listed as “delinquent” for 2016, 2017 and 2018 due to no filings and the state administratively dissolved the entities in 2018.
 
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I jusst listened to the JM/MG/LV podcast all the way through and skimmed the ZP podcast.

In the first one, which I actually thought was not too bad in many ways, they talk about each one of them having a breakdown and hitting rock bottom. Most of the podcast is JM talking about his injury and recovery and is actually kind of inspiring. I am assuming it is ok to talk about that here since he was intentially putting it out there himself.

But what I can't figure out is when did Lori hit rock bottom? We've heard nothing about that at all. Sure, she went crazy a couple of months later. But what happened before November 26, 2018 that she had recovered from?
We have Annie Cushing's account of Lori's behavior in May 2018, when she went to stay to support Tylee after Joe's death.

from timeline:-
May 2018 – Lori asks JR’s sister Annie (Tylee’s aunt) to visit AZ to support Tylee. “I decided to put my personal feelings aside about not being told about Joe’s death and I flew out there, hoping to connect with Tylee,” Annie said. When Annie arrived in AZ, Lori discouraged Tylee from mourning her father’s death. “When I got there, it was as if, nothing had happened,” Annie said. “People were hardly talking about Joe and when Lori did, the tenor was — she would actually say, ‘the world is a better place without Joe Ryan.’” Annie also noticed, “There was also a lot of tension between Tylee and Lori” (KSLTV).

24 May 2018 –After visiting Lori and Tylee, JR’s sister Annie texts her daughter: “It was absolutely exhausting. I dealt with so many lies, even with little things. I think [Lori’s] unhinged and untethered from truth” and “Lolo was crazy. I saw a dark side of her when I was there that makes me question some of her claims” and “I regret going down there. She may be a sociopath.” And “Way More. That’s what makes me feel Lori was a sociopath. To her, this was all a game. She had no empathy for the suffering anyone else was experiencing, including Tylee” (KSLTV).

After May 2018Tylee’s aunt Annie was so shaken that she decided to cut ties with Lori. “I just left exhausted from the constant campaigning [against Joseph Ryan] and Lolo’s out-of-control ego. But I feel trapped. I connected with Tylee but don’t want anything to do with Lolo ever again.” Annie said in a text message to her daughter. That visit was the last time Annie ever saw Tylee (KSLTV).


Then there was another source, perhaps the latest Dateline?, where we heard that Colby moved back to AZ from Hawaii, I think when he was about 19, which would have been around 2015. I mention this because it could be an indication (and I think I detected something left unsaid when I watched it) that there was a tension which may have contributed to his move. Certainly he indicated something about Lori not wanting anything to do with him when he met his girlfriend and I think Keith said something along the lines of Lori behaving more like a girlfriend than a mother and Colby agreed. Whatever it was that happened at that time, I think it shows that Lori was unsettled.

They moved to Hawaii around the end of 2014 and then back to AZ in early 2017. Again I think that shows Lori was not content with her life.

In Jan 2019 Charles said this -

CV: She’s not here, she’s lost her reality.
O: Is this just all recent or has it been going on?
CV: It’s been going on for about 4 or 5 years, it’s gotten really, really bad lately.


Which goes back to 2014/5.

Then there's this in the timeline -

Lori’s friend says in a Dec 2019 interview that Lori first became “obsessed” with Chad’s books about 4 years ago. [my note - 2015]
JJ’s grandmother, KW says in a 30 Jan 2020 presser that she believes Lori & Chad may have met in 2016 or 2017.


I say the indications are that Lori started looking outside her marriage around 2014/15. Not necessarily for an affair but for something new - she lacked drama and conflict after 8/9 years of marriage. Those hadn't been quiet years of marriage either, there were court hearings and custody battles and the odd psych. evaluation, as well as JJ's formal adoption in 2014 as a two year old. Big moves, mainland to island, then back to mainland, especially knowing how much Lori loves Hawaii, likely signal a problem she was trying to fix.

I'd go with Charles' observations. He doesn't describe her as hitting rock-bottom, but in approx 2015 he noticed a concerning change that he was able to pinpoint 4 years later, and that sounds to me like a crisis point. April confirms that is when Lori developed an obsession, and Colby leaving could be to get away from family problems, even though he had a new baby brother. He said wtte that he thought it strange that they would adopt JJ at this time in their lives. The circumstances were different in that the opportunity for adoption presented itself, but with Lori indulging a new obsession so soon after adopting JJ, and moving to AZ when JJ was 4 1/2, it does make me think that her heart wasn't in the place that people around her thought it was. I think Colby said early on (his interview with Justin Lum) that Tylee was more or less competing with Charles to parent JJ (my words not his). He didn't say competing with Lori. I think she just has always been able to fool people, even those closest to her, and people including family are dispensible to her. Colby being a case in point. Ian wrote that she abandoned Melani. People who knew her don't recognize her now, Colby, April, Kay and Larry, Annie...and I think it's because she dropped the pretense. It stopped serving her because she wanted to leave them all behind and start afresh, and she did what she is good at, instead of taking responsibility she had to create fault in others. Charles was a cheat or possessed, Kay was threatening her, JJ was her niece's drug-baby, JR was an abuser.

I thought it was very interesting that Summer said -

"She’s made a lot of mistakes and she’s paid high prices for those mistakes. She is a very humble person. She doesn’t blame other people, she takes responsibility for herself."

It doesn't tally with the Lori we've seen on bodycam footage and in police reports, and running away. It's a whitewash. Which is very silly with the evidence now out there.

moo
 
We have Annie Cushing's account of Lori's behavior in May 2018, when she went to stay to support Tylee after Joe's death.

from timeline:-
May 2018 – Lori asks JR’s sister Annie (Tylee’s aunt) to visit AZ to support Tylee. “I decided to put my personal feelings aside about not being told about Joe’s death and I flew out there, hoping to connect with Tylee,” Annie said. When Annie arrived in AZ, Lori discouraged Tylee from mourning her father’s death. “When I got there, it was as if, nothing had happened,” Annie said. “People were hardly talking about Joe and when Lori did, the tenor was — she would actually say, ‘the world is a better place without Joe Ryan.’” Annie also noticed, “There was also a lot of tension between Tylee and Lori” (KSLTV).

24 May 2018 –After visiting Lori and Tylee, JR’s sister Annie texts her daughter: “It was absolutely exhausting. I dealt with so many lies, even with little things. I think [Lori’s] unhinged and untethered from truth” and “Lolo was crazy. I saw a dark side of her when I was there that makes me question some of her claims” and “I regret going down there. She may be a sociopath.” And “Way More. That’s what makes me feel Lori was a sociopath. To her, this was all a game. She had no empathy for the suffering anyone else was experiencing, including Tylee” (KSLTV).

After May 2018Tylee’s aunt Annie was so shaken that she decided to cut ties with Lori. “I just left exhausted from the constant campaigning [against Joseph Ryan] and Lolo’s out-of-control ego. But I feel trapped. I connected with Tylee but don’t want anything to do with Lolo ever again.” Annie said in a text message to her daughter. That visit was the last time Annie ever saw Tylee (KSLTV).


Then there was another source, perhaps the latest Dateline?, where we heard that Colby moved back to AZ from Hawaii, I think when he was about 19, which would have been around 2015. I mention this because it could be an indication (and I think I detected something left unsaid when I watched it) that there was a tension which may have contributed to his move. Certainly he indicated something about Lori not wanting anything to do with him when he met his girlfriend and I think Keith said something along the lines of Lori behaving more like a girlfriend than a mother and Colby agreed. Whatever it was that happened at that time, I think it shows that Lori was unsettled.

They moved to Hawaii around the end of 2014 and then back to AZ in early 2017. Again I think that shows Lori was not content with her life.

In Jan 2019 Charles said this -

CV: She’s not here, she’s lost her reality.
O: Is this just all recent or has it been going on?
CV: It’s been going on for about 4 or 5 years, it’s gotten really, really bad lately.


Which goes back to 2014/5.

Then there's this in the timeline -

Lori’s friend says in a Dec 2019 interview that Lori first became “obsessed” with Chad’s books about 4 years ago. [my note - 2015]
JJ’s grandmother, KW says in a 30 Jan 2020 presser that she believes Lori & Chad may have met in 2016 or 2017.


I say the indications are that Lori started looking outside her marriage around 2014/15. Not necessarily for an affair but for something new - she lacked drama and conflict after 8/9 years of marriage. Those hadn't been quiet years of marriage either, there were court hearings and custody battles and the odd psych. evaluation, as well as JJ's formal adoption in 2014 as a two year old. Big moves, mainland to island, then back to mainland, especially knowing how much Lori loves Hawaii, likely signal a problem she was trying to fix.

I'd go with Charles' observations. He doesn't describe her as hitting rock-bottom, but in approx 2015 he noticed a concerning change that he was able to pinpoint 4 years later, and that sounds to me like a crisis point. April confirms that is when Lori developed an obsession, and Colby leaving could be to get away from family problems, even though he had a new baby brother. He said wtte that he thought it strange that they would adopt JJ at this time in their lives. The circumstances were different in that the opportunity for adoption presented itself, but with Lori indulging a new obsession so soon after adopting JJ, and moving to AZ when JJ was 4 1/2, it does make me think that her heart wasn't in the place that people around her thought it was. I think Colby said early on (his interview with Justin Lum) that Tylee was more or less competing with Charles to parent JJ (my words not his). He didn't say competing with Lori. I think she just has always been able to fool people, even those closest to her, and people including family are dispensible to her. Colby being a case in point. Ian wrote that she abandoned Melani. People who knew her don't recognize her now, Colby, April, Kay and Larry, Annie...and I think it's because she dropped the pretense. It stopped serving her because she wanted to leave them all behind and start afresh, and she did what she is good at, instead of taking responsibility she had to create fault in others. Charles was a cheat or possessed, Kay was threatening her, JJ was her niece's drug-baby, JR was an abuser.

I thought it was very interesting that Summer said -

"She’s made a lot of mistakes and she’s paid high prices for those mistakes. She is a very humble person. She doesn’t blame other people, she takes responsibility for herself."

It doesn't tally with the Lori we've seen on bodycam footage and in police reports, and running away. It's a whitewash. Which is very silly with the evidence now out there.

moo

Love your synopsis here. I have always felt she was a total fake, and even manipulated those who admired or loved her.

Remember, Summer and Mom also said they had never attended her many weddings, and acted as if they hardly knew her at times (remember that expression "JJ knew who we were"..that was very telling to me).

For Mormon parents seeing their daughter marry 4 non-Mormon men must have been hard to accept. And one of Charles sons' indicated that when they would arrive, she would just disappear for the day.

And with April's and Charles' words about how far back the obsession with Chad Daybell books, or the "Utah people", I just wish someone would come out of the woodwork to tell us when their relationship started.

This is no John Grisham here....she probably started sending emails to little-writer Chad about "how wonderful" his books were back in those early days. A little home town cemetary worker would be flattered beyond belief. Tis why I feel so so much for Tammy...she was duped for years probably, while Chad was having his fantasy affair of words.

It is all just so typical a behavior of cheating minds.

I know people strongly disagree, but I just keep coming back to this feeling that Lori was always a "bad seed". I still think so.
 
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