Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

[divineappt]

DBM

 

[mickey2942]

Lori Vallow's son speaks out following discovery of Tylee and J.J.'s remains

What this young man has had to deal with, and the fact that his Mother is a complete monster.

Positive energy to Colby. Hoping that he will be able to move forward with his life.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

It is important to understand that a total station is not truly obsolete. It just can't do what a laser scanner does. In fact, a total station is often used to verify the accuracy of a laser scanner as foundation in court. A total station will let you very accurately get a specific measurement of a distance at a crime scene. Thus, if I want to know the width of a roadway or the distance between two buildings I can get that with a total station quickly and accurately. I could also get that information from a laser scan but it would require processing the scan and opening up the 3D point cloud on my computer so I could then mark and measure the same distance. It is like having a 3D model of the crime scene that you can measure back at the office -- but you still have to make the measurement. Thus, the total station gives the forensic team specific measurements for deliberately chosen distances at the scene. I'm sure the forensic team also has tape measures and roller wheels too. And while those are not as accurate as a total station or laser scanner, they are easy to use and can give quick measurements in the field.

Our specialty is 3D visualization so our workflow has essentially eliminated the need for a total station. However, a more robust forensics team such as the FBI's would be expected to have both total stations and laser scanners as we see and they've clearly got a workflow that takes advantage of all the tools. I would have been shocked if there wasn't LIDAR scanning at the scene but I'm not surprised that they used a total station for their preliminary mapping.

Thank you for explaining. That makes me understand more and more comfortable!

 

[The First Article]

Exactly. He weaponized her. He controlled her at a base level. They both have the propensity to kill



Not just that, I'd be willing to bet she played an active role in killing them. They were likely killed at her residence and then Chad took their bodies to his yard for disposal.

I also would not be surprised if Chad held some sort of "ritual" after they died. He had convinced Lori they were gods of sorts, so anything they decided to do was permissible.

What a cray cray pair.

I wonder if Lori's claim they are zombies is pure cult ideology to dehumanize them, or if she legit has some weird variant Facetious Disorder like Munchhausen by Proxy, like Cotard's by Proxy.

 

[MoM3tzger]

Doesn’t the court now have custody of the kids? Am I imagining that? LOL MOO

Either the state of Idaho or the Woodcocks were granted temporary guardianship the day LV was arrested.

Without reading the actual pleadings and orders filed in the case, I believe the it is the state pending location JJ. I am thinking the state would not have granted guardianship for a missing child. And, Lori is not listed on the case as a party. Legal research on the guardianship code Leads me to believe that if a person petitions the court for guardianship of minor child—the parent(s) have the right to be notified within ten days to request a hearing. There are a few exceptions but based on what I understand the law to say—the state was likely granted guardianship. If the Woodcocks were granted temporary guardianship, the appointment would have expired in six months thereby leaving the case hanging out there had JJ not been found or found deceased.

For an online summary of the case, click here and then search by name Vallow, Lori, confirm you are not a robot and select search.

 

[Forever Young]

How dare he do that to children. The fact he would tells me that he was pure evil before the murders.

MB bought into that too. Did Chad make a hit list for her too? Seems she was intent on doing the same things her aunt did. Get rid of people standing in the way of your new life. And profiting off of it as well. Good thing Brandon and his PI put a stop to it.

LV is diabolical., but I don't think she would have killed anyone if it weren't for Chad and his revelations.

TR's dad Joe? Not sure of this, but his death is highly suspect as well, and wasn't this before LV became enamored with CD? JMO, and just wondering. Think Lori comes off as being "highly suggestible" and took something literally that should not have been taken literally.

 

[GiGi4277]

Very quickly by dental records. Because ID came so fast in this case, I absolutely believe that's how it was done here.

Idaho has the rapid DNA tests from what I have heard. They can have a positive ID on someone in 4-5 hours.

 

[GRT]

I still strongly believe that LE had some way of knowing for certain the remains were of Tylee and JJ—perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

That plus confirmation of same + the uncovering of the remains = responsibility to notify the families - OR - identification by family = notification to family thereby prompting family to release statements confirming the remains

The bodies were uncovered June 9 and one family member made a post on SM June 9 and then formal statements statements released June 10. LE statement was released June 13 confirming the autopsy results.

So how else could the family know the remains were of the children? Who notified them and based on what proof?

IMO, there has to be some evidentiary proof that the bodies were those of Tylee and JJ—again, either by sworn statement, an admission or identification otherwise, how would the family have known before the autopsy?

A social media post by a family member confirming JJ’s death popped up late in the evening of the the post was allegedly meant for a closed group that was either infiltrated by someone for whom the post wasn’t intended for or someone who breached the trust of said family member, by taking taking a screenshot and was posting it elsewhere. OP called that person out and nothing more was said until the Woodcocks released their statement June 10. I know SM posts aren’t allowed here but I saw this with my own eyes and saved screenshots of same—to confirm my sanity as I couldn’t believe my own eyes at the time.

Either way, the question still remains—how did the family received confirmation on the remains before the autopsy was performed?

Im going to continue to speculate that there has GOT to be some kind of evidentiary proof some how, some where, some way that confirms the bodies were those of the children without the need for an autopsy. Is it a confession and locating remains were enough to notify the families?

I think so. And if so, takes me back to my first sentence here: perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

Someone either flipped or snitched.

And, is this therefore why the order to seal was amended to include “sealing the probable cause affidavit submitted with the complaint is necessary to prevent harm to person or persons?

***** MOO ****** JMO ****** MOO ******JMO ****** MOO *****

Also, @Tortoise thank you so for the additional information—it is very helpful.

@Lea.B @Countem @BeckyF

I think you have to be right. They knew before they dug, which is why Nate the reporter said an official told him early that morning it would be a "wonderful and very sad day (paraphrased)."

To me, that means one of the people who was involved with the burying of the bodies rolled over. Not just someone who "heard" about it -- that statement to Nate from the official was pretty clear -- it didn't leave much room for conjecture.

I'm still leaning toward Lori, since CD would have been out with them showing them the burial site if he was the one. But, he was sitting in the car, and, if reports are to be believed, at one point he took off quickly, only to be chased by officers and arrested.

JMOO

 

[The First Article]

About Chad lying about supernatural stuff to get his way...I don’t remember the exact details, but he lied about a dead relative of Tammy’s, I think her mom or grandma, appearing to him. I think he lied and said the apparition was upset about her playing a video game, and used the made up apparition to get her to play less.

So if I’m right about that, he would lie about supernatural encounters to get his way in extremely minor conflicts of his own making. He also lied in the “non-fiction” books to make money. I’m also pretty sure he knew that JR and perhaps other authors he published lied to make money.

Chad is a spiritual abuser (among other things) who uses the dead and a god to triangulate people.

Using a god to triangulate is pretty common with religious abusers. So using your dead granny for triangulation so that his wife had no one on her side from Heaven to Hell sounds about right.

 

[Forever Young]

Right, and Chad came up with the idiotic light/dark point scale, too.

But I’m not sure who came up with the “therefore they had to go” portion. I assume that was all Lori, who roped in Alex.

I think Chad got an idea of who Lori liked/disliked, then made up the dumb scale stuff to flatter her into thinking god approved of her opinions...and then Lori took it from there.

If that’s true, Lori brought murder into the equation. And Chad unwittingly supplied the justification for the murder.

who knows though...

I think that's a likely scenario. Chad agreeing with "poor, poor Lori" having problems with her kids and exes, through no fault of her own. Just kissing up to her, didn't mean go out and kill them. MOO

 

[The First Article]

Right, and Chad came up with the idiotic light/dark point scale, too.

The scale turns out to be a very useful tool of abuse for him. If you aren't doing what Chad wants then his god will reject you. To obtain him saving you now that you are on his god's bad side you have to stay off of Chad's 'dark' scale. To not do so means he might need to murder you.

Imagine this is your marriage or parent.

 

[SuziQ]

Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

Thank you so much for doing this.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I think you have to be right. They knew before they dug, which is why Nate the reporter said an official told him early that morning it would be a "wonderful and very sad day (paraphrased)."

To me, that means one of the people who was involved with the burying of the bodies rolled over. Not just someone who "heard" about it -- that statement to Nate from the official was pretty clear -- it didn't leave much room for conjecture.

I'm still leaning toward Lori, since CD would have been out with them showing them the burial site if he was the one. But, he was sitting in the car, and, if reports are to be believed, at one point he took off quickly, only to be chased by officers and arrested.

JMOO

I am in the camp of no way would Lori or Chad tell. I think it was pure technology. A phone bug, info from texts, computer or somewhere, but not our suspects directly.

 

[Spartygirl]

Lori didn't tell her that was the plan. According to Tylee's friend, right before moving to Idaho, Tylee was considering staying with her friend in AZ, and only decided to move because of JJ. Which doesn't really go with Lori telling her that she would go to study in the University.

IIRC-- LVD told LE when CV was killed that Tylee was going to go to BYU- Hawaii so CV died 7/11/19 and she was putting that idea into Tylee's head and telling LE about BYU.

 

[The First Article]

Lori Vallow's son speaks out following discovery of Tylee and J.J.'s remains
Lori Vallow's son speaks out following discovery of Tylee and J.J.'s remains

That Colby and Tylee somehow grew up to be decent people despite a lifetime of being jerked around is a testament to their strength.

 

[tresir2012]

Eaton: Did you guys have a joint wedding with Alex and Zulema, or was that separate?

Melani: Alex and Zulema had been dating for several months, and Alex was very ready to marry Zulema. She was waiting until she got an answer. She knew she was supposed to be with Alex but was going to wait until it felt like the right time.

They had talked about wanting to get married in Jackson or Las Vegas, and it just so happened when they picked their date, they had more of a plan than Ian and I did. The coincidence of us picking the day right after them wasn’t planned or anything – it was just what happened. We made the decision in Arizona during Thanksgiving and said, “Let’s do it.” And while we’re there, we need a witness, and Alex and Zulema are there. This wasn’t our big wedding day – just the beginning of our lives together, and then we’ll have that special moment when we’re all together as a family.

Eaton: So they got married the day before you guys did?

Melani: We got married on the 30th, and I think they got married on the 29th.

So just before this, they have all found out that the FBI are looking for Tylee and JJ. So on Thanksgiving they are thinking about marriage and eloping to Vegas straightaway. Both Alex and Melani therefore change their surnames, Chad and Lori head of for California and Hawaii. Noone cares about the kids. We know they disappeared between 9th/23rd Sept and the welfare check. We have a possible conversation with JJ and his Grandma Cox on the 1st Oct. That is also when Lori gets the storage locker. 2nd Oct, attempt on BB. Oct also for Tammy's trip to see her parents at Chad's insistence, the paintball assassin and Tammy's death. So from the 9th/23rd Sept till early Oct is when I believe they were killed and hidden in the cars or the storage locker, prior to being disposed of/buried during the time Tammy was at her parents house. MOO.

 

[MoM3tzger]

Not necessarily. They know it's against the law to kill people and they are aware of the legal consequences, but they still feel it's justified/necessary according to their belief system.

This made me think back to the Andrea Pia Yates case. She confessed to drowning her five children (reasons tied to her religious beliefs/delusions) and she was diagnosing severe mental health disorders.

The jury found her guilty of capital murder but the verdict was overturned on appeal and she received a new trial.

Second jury found her not guilty by reason of insanity and she was committed by the court to a mental health facility.

I worked in the law firms that repented her. It is a very sad case. IMO, her actually punishment started after she treated and had to deal with the reality of truth. IMO, her religious beliefs were her worst enemy. My heart still aches for her.

 

[Michael0808]

I have calibrated 3D models of 5-gallon buckets in my library with these measurements: 11.91" top outside diameter / 10.33" bottom outside diameter / 14.5" height. Assuming those dimensions are accurate for the buckets shown in the scene, I have camera matched the models to several of the buckets in the drone photo and I've added simple ten foot rulers (one foot intervals) for your convenience. Please feel free to use this image to make your own measurements: WARNING: possibly shows human remains -- http://visuallaw.net/SCALE_ADDED.jpg

Thank you so much for doing this, your skills are amazing!

 

[Alpha_Q]

There's nothing like taking a break from this thread for work and, you know, LIFE, and coming back to see 20 pages. You pound through that only to see a link for the next thread and 30+ more pages.

Thanks to that poster - Vislaw - who did the examination of the orange material and the hole, etc. Pointing out the lasers - very nice. However, I don't believe there's any remains on that bag. None. What we're seeing on that bag is, if anything, pareidolia - our own Rorshach nightmares (and rightfully so). I juried on a case here in Canada involving a murdered child and his grandparents. Every piece of remains is photographed in situ, labeled and bagged immediately. Any remains in that hole is going straight from ground to bag or box. Left in the open air and ignored like that? No way. That image of the photographer taking that picture with everyone circled around - there's your remains. Mind you, in the case I reference, there was nothing bigger than a fingernail, and like I said, Canada, but I'm convinced that bones would go direct from ground to the very box that takes them to the autopsy location.

One thing I think we all can agree on, that sure looks a dumb place to dig a hole to bury anything. I'd be curious if a neighbor saw any tenting in that area around the time of the disappearances. You tell your wife and kids your next End Times Fantasy story involves camping, and you want to get a feel for it, you're gonna throw a tent up in the yard and camp a night or two. You tell her to go visit her mom. Pitch a big tent, cut out the bottom, carry in your 'problem' and you can dig to your heart's content.

JMO, yo.

 

[GiGi4277]

Lori apparently believed them to be dead when they were perfectly alive. According to Melanie G., when she went visit Lori in Rexburg, Lori told her that JJ become a "zombie." Lori also accused Charles of being a "zombie" and of course we all know what happened to Charles. I don't think there is a snowball chance in hell Lori didn't know that kids were killed.

Agree. IF she says she didn't know they were killed, she sure didn't bother to look for them for months. Kind of blew that whole defense to me.