Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #40

[Michael0808]

@Michael0808 this was the perfect time for you to join WS. Your fresh perspective and collegial style is just what we needed when we're all feeling devastated and grumpy about the kids MOO

When the ME report for AxC came out, I was just disappointed that it didn't seem to be poison and failed to analyze it carefully.

On review, it really does look like it was natural MOO again. Article at link is pretty technical but here are some key points:
-ME report states Pulmonary system shows multiple small (micro) focally organizing pulmonary embolisms (PE) Translation: these were chronic PEs that had been there long enough to attach to the blood vessels in the lungs. This is not rare; it's associated with lower limb thrombi/clots that are also chronic. IMO this fits with the idea that AxC, a long haul truck driver at risk for chronic lower leg thrombi aka Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) developed Chronic thromboembolic pulmonary hypertension (CTEPH) which the article describes. The pattern of how the embolisms are located also fits with that diagnosis.

Chronic pulmonary embolism: diagnosis

ETA AxC would have been exposed to a lot of second hand smoke in Truck Stops and also if he often spent time in Las Vegas, and that would add to his risk for developing DVTs

The ME report mentions hemangiomas in the liver. Those are not life threatening and interestingly more common in women per this from the Mayo Clinic

Liver hemangioma - Symptoms and causes

The final abnormal finding in the autopsy is that "the proximal duodenum is notable for hyperemia of the mucosa with no sub mucosal or serosal abnormalities"
Translation: the top of the small intestine that connects to the stomach had increased blood flow
Duodenum:
The Small Intestine - Duodenum - Jejunum - Ileum - TeachMeAnatomy

Hyperemia:
Hyperemia: Definition, Causes, and Different Types

It's interesting to note that the ME report says that there is no abnormality in the duodenal tissue itself, also not to the actual blood (no sub mucosal or serosal abnormalities). You would expect to find those if AxC had the most common cause of duodenal hyperemia: duodenitis or inflammation.

Gastritis/Duodenitis: Types, Causes, and Symptoms

So if we are still looking for signs of poisoning, this is where we should look- inflammation in the gut. But unfortunately (because I was ride or die on team poison) duodenal hyperemia is also caused by DVT.

One more thing IIRC Melani P did mention that vascular problems did run in the Cox family in one of the interviews she and IP did.

It could just be Karma, Cox family Karma. Who knows?

Oh, one more thing MOO

First of all, you’re amazing! Second of all reading and sticking with the first of all.

 

[KonaHonu]

Do we know anything about AC's employment status starting around 9/1 when he moved to Idaho? I know we know he was previously a long haul trucker. But I'm wondering if he continued that after moving to Idaho. I'm trying to build a daily timeline for each of our characters and I'm finding 8-9 day gaps in AC's. These could be explained by trucking runs but others have said he was no longer driving.

 

[Nurse Gen]

First of all, you’re amazing! Second of all reading and sticking with the first of all.

You forgot to note that first of all is "MOO" :')

 

[Michael0808]

@Michael0808 this was the perfect time for you to join WS. Your fresh perspective and collegial style is just what we needed when we're all feeling devastated and grumpy about the kids MOO

When the ME report for AxC came out, I was just disappointed that it didn't seem to be poison and failed to analyze it carefully.

On review, it really does look like it was natural MOO again. Article at link is pretty technical but here are some key points:
-ME report states Pulmonary system shows multiple small (micro) focally organizing pulmonary embolisms (PE) Translation: these were chronic PEs that had been there long enough to attach to the blood vessels in the lungs. This is not rare; it's associated with lower limb thrombi/clots that are also chronic. IMO this fits with the idea that AxC, a long haul truck driver at risk for chronic lower leg thrombi aka Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) developed Chronic thromboembolic pulmonary hypertension (CTEPH) which the article describes. The pattern of how the embolisms are located also fits with that diagnosis.

Chronic pulmonary embolism: diagnosis

ETA AxC would have been exposed to a lot of second hand smoke in Truck Stops and also if he often spent time in Las Vegas, and that would add to his risk for developing DVTs

The ME report mentions hemangiomas in the liver. Those are not life threatening and interestingly more common in women per this from the Mayo Clinic

Liver hemangioma - Symptoms and causes

The final abnormal finding in the autopsy is that "the proximal duodenum is notable for hyperemia of the mucosa with no sub mucosal or serosal abnormalities"
Translation: the top of the small intestine that connects to the stomach had increased blood flow
Duodenum:
The Small Intestine - Duodenum - Jejunum - Ileum - TeachMeAnatomy

Hyperemia:
Hyperemia: Definition, Causes, and Different Types

It's interesting to note that the ME report says that there is no abnormality in the duodenal tissue itself, also not to the actual blood (no sub mucosal or serosal abnormalities). You would expect to find those if AxC had the most common cause of duodenal hyperemia: duodenitis or inflammation.

Gastritis/Duodenitis: Types, Causes, and Symptoms

So if we are still looking for signs of poisoning, this is where we should look- inflammation in the gut. But unfortunately (because I was ride or die on team poison) duodenal hyperemia is also caused by DVT.

One more thing IIRC Melani P did mention that vascular problems did run in the Cox family in one of the interviews she and IP did.

It could just be Karma, Cox family Karma. Who knows?

Oh, one more thing MOO

Lol! mooo!

Listen, in my most humble opinion ever because I’m dumb. And I own it. Everything I thought knew was wrong. And that’s right.
Read this. Facts matter in this.

 

[spandangly]

So, I decided to bite the bullet and read all 7 pages of MGs statement. I have so many words, I don't even know where to start. She still sounds completely in denial regarding responsibility for her own and others' actions, MOO. I feel like she's missed the forest for the trees, as they say, being concerned about opening portals for dark spirits instead of concerned that her friends murdered two beautiful children (among others!) while she stood by and thought "hmmm." I find her tone incongruent. Her response to all the murder is "Yikes!" ??!? Her writing is childish. And frankly, she still sounds mostly insane. I think she needs a lot of deprogramming therapy from a very skilled counselor. I'm grateful for what she has contributed to LE, dubious about her intentions, and terrified that there are others potentially reading this--treatise?--and nodding their heads in agreement.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. That was just the tip of the feelings it dredged up.

MOO

 

[Michael0808]

You forgot to note that first of all is "MOO" :')

Moooooo! Lol! Thanks. Now my pup is following me around like I’m a cow lol

 

[fuzzybutter]

I am just not "getting" it. Chad Daybell seems like the world's biggest loser to me. Surprised that Lori was so infatuated with him, that she moved to Rexburg, ID to be with him.

I totally agree with you. And I was thinking about this while I was reading MGs 7 page mea culpa. She describes Lori’s growing infatuation with Chad and it seems he played her like fiddle. She was fascinated by his descriptions of the other side of the veil and his parlor tricks like using a pendulum. He managed to convince a small group of not real bright, sheltered people that he had something to offer. Lori crashed through her life, jumping from one marriage to the next. I believe she has at least one personality disorder and this leads to complete destruction every 4 or 5 years. Chad was the next thing. Until she started reading his awful books, she hadn’t ever considered these crazy concepts. And he kept telling her what she wanted to hear about past lives, other planets, being a god and most important, their past history as a couple. Being a narcissist she totally embraced the beliefs and the prophet who was spewing them. Also important, he wanted to sleep with her and I don’t think she minded. If sex got her immortality she was all for it. I agree Chad is a big loser, but they are all total losers. It’s too bad they didn’t take another interest like cosplay or car racing or traveling

 

[longtimereader]

Back to MP if that’s ok. I’m searching for the interview where I know she could not recall the Vegas chapel she was married in. I am certain it’s the Dateline interview. I need to pull it up and watch it again. This is important to me

I remember that as well. It is very dismissive of her. Like it didn't really matter and it was so unimportant that we shouldn't pay attention to that. I remember she glanced at IP while that was being discussed. In my opinion, she would change what she was saying mid-sentence sometimes. It's like she is listening to herself as she talks and self screening. She seemed happy with herself when she managed to say nothing with a lot of words. Just my opinion.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I'm not sold on DI's theory about the Jeep but DI is a very careful and thorough thinker so I'm not ready to dismiss it either. If they left the Jeep in Arizona with some kind of plan to get it later after judging if anyone missed Tylee I think that would require endowing Lori and Chad with more planning skills than I think they have. My thought is that if they left it in AZ it had more to do with too many vehicles and not enough drivers.

I would think that if they left it somewhere with a person, we'd see that person's name on the witness list because it would be VERY important to learn that Tylee's jeep had been left in Arizona. Almost all the people on the witness list are people we have already talked about in one way or another but there are 2 mystery people so perhaps it is one of them. But I'd think that would have been mentioned in the probable cause affidavit. It's possible they left it in a long term lot at an airport. I don't know what LT parking rates are in the Phoenix area but in Tucson you can park for as little as $3.00 per day. I bet it is more around Sky Harbor or Gateway but still not a crazy expensive option. Gateway was formerly Williams Air Force Base so there is probably lots of open land for parking lots around there.

There is another vehicle mystery that puzzles me. Lori had an Infiniti SUV in Arizona then suddenly a Nissan Rogue in Rexburg. Infinity is the luxury brand of Nissan so those vehicles are very similar except for amenities. If teh Infiniti was leased and she turned it in in Arizona then I think it less likely the Jeep was left behind. They would have needed space to pack stuff. Even though they traveled light, they took some stuff and the vehicles would have been crowded.

It seems unlikely to me that Lori had great credit because, well, bankruptcy, and instability, plus lawsuits from CV's employees when he couldn't pay them because she stole the money in February. So I don't see her leasing or buying a car in Rexburg. Maybe the Rogue was a rental? Or bought used from a private party? Maybe she drove the Infiniti to Idaho then sold it and bought a Rouge. If so she probably would have needed Tylee's jeep for a few days.


AC few one-way to Mesa with MB on Thursday 10/31 on that same Allegiant flight (Flt no. 530) that CD took on Thursday 9/19. It's in the timeline.

1. Did the employees actually have to file lawsuits to get paid, I can’t remember?

2. The dog trainer said he saw the Infiniti packed and ready to go when he picked up the dog on the 1 or 2 I believe. So I don’t think the Infiniti was left in AZ.

If the Infiniti was owned (debt free) I could absolutely see the sale of it paying for a rogue and few hair salon trips on top. I have sold a few cars with trade ins and left on the same day with a car. (No need to have tylee’s Jeep) I’ve walked in to a car max and traded a car and left with a new one in under 2 hours.

But I said a couple days ago and still stand by it, that I’m curious what happened to the Infiniti and when and why that was.

 

[Knox]

Nate- "Why do you think Lori won't say where the kids are"?
MP- "I don't have that answer but, I know no one is listening to her side (Lori), it seems proven guilty before even given a chance to speak for herself. I know she hasn't come forward and said that and I absolutely would love that but she knows what she's doing I believe and she knows where the kids are and I think, I can't remember the quote she said very initially when um things took off and all the speculation and rumors began but I believe when all this over and we are looking at the real facts, I believe she has a story to tell and I know she doesn't have reason to trust a lot of people right now and I can't ask that question of her and she's in jail and doesn't have a chance to tell her story" ...

OMG, I give up on transcribing MP's run-on commentary. It's nothing but a circle jerk, Nate finally has to interject and ask direct questions to refocus her. But she goes back to the same word vomit without answering the question.

Why did I start transcribing, I got lost in the sauce ...

 

[BeckyF]

So, I decided to bite the bullet and read all 7 pages of MGs statement. I have so many words, I don't even know where to start. She still sounds completely in denial regarding responsibility for her own and others' actions, MOO. I feel like she's missed the forest for the trees, as they say, being concerned about opening portals for dark spirits instead of concerned that her friends murdered two beautiful children (among others!) while she stood by and thought "hmmm." I find her tone incongruent. Her response to all the murder is "Yikes!" ??!? Her writing is childish. And frankly, she still sounds mostly insane. I think she needs a lot of deprogramming therapy from a very skilled counselor. I'm grateful for what she has contributed to LE, dubious about her intentions, and terrified that there are others potentially reading this--treatise?--and nodding their heads in agreement.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. That was just the tip of the feelings it dredged up.

MOO

BBM. I'm terrified of the same thing. How many more?

 

[Bazinga]

So, I decided to bite the bullet and read all 7 pages of MGs statement. I have so many words, I don't even know where to start. She still sounds completely in denial regarding responsibility for her own and others' actions, MOO. I feel like she's missed the forest for the trees, as they say, being concerned about opening portals for dark spirits instead of concerned that her friends murdered two beautiful children (among others!) while she stood by and thought "hmmm." I find her tone incongruent. Her response to all the murder is "Yikes!" ??!? Her writing is childish. And frankly, she still sounds mostly insane. I think she needs a lot of deprogramming therapy from a very skilled counselor. I'm grateful for what she has contributed to LE, dubious about her intentions, and terrified that there are others potentially reading this--treatise?--and nodding their heads in agreement.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. That was just the tip of the feelings it dredged up.

MOO

I also bit the bullet and read the full 7 pages of MG's letter to AVOW website members. I recognise that she is speaking to a select group of people speaking a language they are familiar with HOWEVER...
Throughout the statement MG seems to say she had to let go of her pride and yet she is still there with a long long winded sermon, quoting the bible (and I'm guessing the BOM) to back up her points. Pushing how God is speaking directly to her constantly so all her thoughts are on good authority. There is so much delusion and grandiosity. Blaming the devil rather than Lori or Chad. The deaths of the children and TD and CV are barely mentioned. I agree that she is still deeply indoctrinated and needs deprogramming.
She needs to tell any of these people who may still follow or believe in Chad and Lori that they are not gods and won't be leading anyone anywhere except perhaps to jail.

 

[longtimereader]

Back to MP if that’s ok. I’m searching for the interview where I know she could not recall the Vegas chapel she was married in. I am certain it’s the Dateline interview. I need to pull it up and watch it again. This is important to me

14:01 Lucky Little Wedding Chapel. If you back it up, she speaks of all their kids being together as a family at a future wedding that they are going to have. Also watch her smile and speak as if it is all sunshine and roses while IP just watches her.

Wedding Packages in Las Vegas | Lucky Little Wedding Chapel The Lucky Looker package provides gown and tux rental. All JMO except for the link, the minute mark and the chapel name and info.

 

[TexieLouWho21]

Ok I wanted it all to be Risperdal. Sp? Spell check doesn’t like my spelling.

Anyway I’ve been reading about it. But police per the timeline found JJs prescription bottle with I *think* either 17 or 19 pills left in the bottle. Indicating she stopped giving him the medicine.
So that was left behind, and I may be missing it but I can’t see that she refilled it.

Yes I saw this too. MOO We don't know when she stopped giving it or if she was actually giving it correctly. We do know at times she gave it to JJ to put him to sleep.

I'm not good at spelling either. As a matter of fact I am a horrible speller. I just put it up there and hope nobody calls attention to it. Lol

 

[Michael0808]

Yes I saw this too. MOO We don't know when she stopped giving it or if she was actually giving it correctly. We do know at times she gave it to him to put him to sleep.

I'm not good at spelling either. As a matter of fact I am a horrible speller. I just put it up there and hope nobody calls attention to it. Lol

I’m very interested in the medication.
Spelling sucks lo! Post anyway

 

[Michael0808]

I’m very interested in the medication.
Spelling sucks lo! Post anyway

Love your input. No one here cares about spelling

 

[Michael0808]

14:01 Lucky Little Wedding Chapel. If you back it up, she speaks of all their kids being together as a family at a future wedding that they are going to have. Also watch her smile and speak as if it is all sunshine and roses while IP just watches her.

Wedding Packages in Las Vegas | Lucky Little Wedding Chapel The Lucky Looker package provides gown and tux rental. All JMO except for the link, the minute mark and the chapel name and info.

Hang on! I think this is it

 

[RBofHV]

From article:
“He created a portal and would ask questions with a pendulum. I saw him twice with a gold-colored pointy pendulum with a string attached. The last time I saw Chad and Lori, he asked questions with the pendulum to see if people were light or dark. That was troubling to me. I thought, ‘This is how he gets his answers?’ He told Lori that Peter, James and John came to him in 2017 in the mountains,” Gibb wrote.

Edit for my full reaction... Please do not try and tie this to Mainstream LDS Church..Chad and his made up crap/doctrine

Wow, it sounds like Chad has been on another planet for a while. This seems like way more than trying to gain power/notoriety, he is truly delusional. This man is a piece of work. Pretending to be “regular” LDS while preaching this garbage.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

So, I decided to bite the bullet and read all 7 pages of MGs statement. I have so many words, I don't even know where to start. She still sounds completely in denial regarding responsibility for her own and others' actions, MOO. I feel like she's missed the forest for the trees, as they say, being concerned about opening portals for dark spirits instead of concerned that her friends murdered two beautiful children (among others!) while she stood by and thought "hmmm." I find her tone incongruent. Her response to all the murder is "Yikes!" ??!? Her writing is childish. And frankly, she still sounds mostly insane. I think she needs a lot of deprogramming therapy from a very skilled counselor. I'm grateful for what she has contributed to LE, dubious about her intentions, and terrified that there are others potentially reading this--treatise?--and nodding their heads in agreement.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. That was just the tip of the feelings it dredged up.

MOO

I read it too... was just continually saying to myself.. this is what you want to say?

This part was interesting to me:

“ Chad and Lori were so anxious to be together that Chad developed a plan and called Lori to let her know that Charles was taken over by an unclean spirit and was no longer Charles anymore. These unclean spirits would later become zombies. I was there when this happened and Lori seemed a little overwhelmed by this idea but wanted to believe Chad.”

So, my question. What was the plan? Did you know about this plan then, before Charles was murdered?

2. She acts like in her letter that she now has all this new knowledge about why you shouldn’t fall for the things that she fell for. I have to believe that these things, scriptures, she was taught prior to the last six months. It’s not like she’s got new knowledge all the sudden. She made some mistakes, got caught, and is trying to show renewed faith based on premises and teachings that she already knew but put aside for Chad’s teachings. I almost get the feeling of the quiet girl that wants to be a part of the popular crowd so she alters her views to fit in, then she realizes the popular crowd didn’t look so good after all. IMHO

3. I don’t understand the “secret combinations” terminology. I thought that was code for CIA, FBI, but it’s obviously not.

4. I was sick after the first paragraph of of poor CP.... should’ve started with TR and JJ!

Linking the letter again. READ: Melanie Gibb's 7-page letter posted on AVOW | East Idaho News

 

[TexieLouWho21]

I would really love for this to be it, but MOO it's not likely. He would have to be taking 2 psychiatric medications, and we don't have any indication that they had access to paliperidone

I did not notice the paliperdone reference. I was trying to get a dosage.....UGH. There are so many studies of Resiperdole and blood clots. I was trying to find one that I could link. Thats the one I hit. I need to quit posting.