Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #41

[diggndeeperstill]

The employees filed suit but I'm not sure we know the outcome, if any yet. No filings against Charles's estate but I would not expect that since it was an LLC.

I missed the part about the Infiniti being packed. By 1 or 2 I assume you mean September 1st or 2nd. Can you confirm where that is verified?

Yes, I can imagine going to a Nissan dealer with a late model Infiniti, even with a loan, and leaving shortly with a Rogue and no debt. But such a move may be revealing as a debt-shedding maneuver.

Here is one article-
Gilbert dog trainer may be the last person to see missing boy with ties to Arizona
Mestas remembers going to pick up the dog from Lori. "They were in the middle of moving," said Mestas. "She had the SUV in the middle of the driveway. They were throwing bags in there. JJ was in the backseat on his tablet."

This article says he picked up the dog August 30th
Trainer: Lori Vallow asked to rehome son's service dog after her estranged husband died | ktvb.com

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know anything about AC's employment status starting around 9/1 when he moved to Idaho? I know we know he was previously a long haul trucker. But I'm wondering if he continued that after moving to Idaho. I'm trying to build a daily timeline for each of our characters and I'm finding 8-9 day gaps in AC's. These could be explained by trucking runs but others have said he was no longer driving.

BBM. A family insider mentioned to Gray Hughes in text exchange (Dec 25 video) that Alex quit his job because he was expecting to get part of Charles' life insurance money.

 

[indicolite22]

I also bit the bullet and read the full 7 pages of MG's letter to AVOW website members. I recognise that she is speaking to a select group of people speaking a language they are familiar with HOWEVER...
Throughout the statement MG seems to say she had to let go of her pride and yet she is still there with a long long winded sermon, quoting the bible (and I'm guessing the BOM) to back up her points. Pushing how God is speaking directly to her constantly so all her thoughts are on good authority. There is so much delusion and grandiosity. Blaming the devil rather than Lori or Chad. The deaths of the children and TD and CV are barely mentioned. I agree that she is still deeply indoctrinated and needs deprogramming.
She needs to tell any of these people who may still follow or believe in Chad and Lori that they are not gods and won't be leading anyone anywhere except perhaps to jail.

BBM. Isn't personal revelation part of the Mormon doctrine?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

There seems to be some confusion and concerns being expressed about Timeline posts not being linked in the Opening Posts.

Mods, Admins, Coordinators ... we've all had discussion about this over the last year and we just don't know why or when members started requesting WS staff to make all these additions and changes to the Opening Posts of new threads. We are a very limited staff and this is something members have historically done on their own that doesn't create any extra work for WS staff.

It is a very simple system that was set up years ago and has worked well in the past. We don't need to duplicate effort or reinvent the wheel here.

In each forum, i.e. "Located Persons Discussion", members will see at the top of the page, a sub forum called for example "Located Timeline and Media Links"

As you can see, any member can start an appropriately titled new timeline thread within such a forum and make or copy their Timeline posts and all subsequent revisions or updates into that thread. It can be titled something like Vallow & Daybell Media, Maps & Timeline (or just Vallow & Daybell Timeline thread if they want to keep it separate and apart from Media and Maps). If the thread gets titled Media, Maps and Timelines, all members have to do is use the search feature within that thread for the word Timeline. That's what these features are for.

When a member has created the Timeline thread, WS staff link it ONCE in the Opening Post and it never has to be changed again, regardless of whether it's 1 or 100 new discussion threads for any given case.

If there is any question about the above, please contact any Mod or Admin and we'll be glad to clarify.

If nobody else is going to do it for this case, when one of us gets time (not sure when that will be), we will set up the timeline thread for you in this case and copy all of Gardener1850's timeline posts into it. We will update the link in the Opening Post and it will never have to change after that.

Truly hope this clarifies.

Will do. Thanks for the direction. I just bumped as soon there should be a new thread and it will be taken over to the new one if >1,000 posts is captured.

I think this is such a confusing case is the reason that I liked having that timeline within the thread, and many others also. It has been so wonderful vs. having 70 pages of media threads... all in 10 posts to scroll and/or read. Now, and ESPECIALLY later to nail down all of what has happened and to see what "stories" some folks come up with, if it fits.

Egads, so much has happened since the last update since March!!

 

[findher8]

Great rapport and getting approval from law enforcement are two completely different things. A free press does not have any government constraints on it. We all think Nate is a great guy and great reporter, but that does not mean he is working with LE and letting them dictate what he does and does not publish. If that was true he needs to get out journalism and do PR for LE. It is a dangerous situation when any government agency dictates what and how media reports on something.

We do know from the first Dateline episode that Nate and the dateline people were in Hawaii and knew where Chad and Lori were, but we're asked to hang back a few days to not tip LE hand or spook Chad and Lori. Nate didn't swoop in for his now famous grilling until LE gave him the go ahead.

 

[Tortoise]

Quote from Alex's mother JC:

JC: "And it’s, it was hard to hear about Alex, from the police. We didn’t know he’d gotten married, we didn’t know he’d moved back to Arizona, that was very hard."

She doesn't say to hear about Alex's passing, but I can't think what else she would be referring to. Can anyone answer the question why JC would be notified he had died by the police?

Is it possible that the notification wasn't so much a standard notification to next of kin after a death, but was part of the investigation into his death, and his crimes?

I would love to know when that was.

Actually thinking about it, perhaps that's why she phrased it that way. They may have deemed it a suspicious death because of Tammy's exhumation and the missing children, and all the police investigations starting to join up. The FBI were already involved with IP and MBP, and MG. So perhaps police had questions for them about any people who might have wanted to harm him, about any communications from him, or possessions (weapons, electronic devices) or vehicles he had stored at their home. If they did ask them about known threats I would love to know what their answers were at that time.

Quote from MG:
“The bishop called and said, ‘Why are there cop cars around Zulema’s house?’ … He calls me back and said, ‘He died,'” Gibb says. “That completely threw me. … I had many different ideas. I thought, ‘Did he kill himself? … Or maybe somebody could have tried to kill him?’ I just really did not know. I was guessing all over the place.”
Part 3: Melanie Gibb discusses mysterious deaths, an earthquake, confronting Chad and Lori and her message for them now | East Idaho News

I'm not sure if police would have coordinated a response to include contacting his parents the same day as his death, before his autopsy even. I'm just wondering why ZP, MBP and Lori didn't notify JC.

Do JC and Summer not wonder why Lori and MBP didn't tell them Alex had died?

None of them thought Alex had been murdered by the nasty people threatening Lori for Charles' death? Knock me over with a feather.

MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

I've just watched part 3 of the MG interview. At the end, I'm just sat here shaking my head. Words fail me.

 

[Nikynoo]

Quote from Alex's mother JC:

JC: "And it’s, it was hard to hear about Alex, from the police. We didn’t know he’d gotten married, we didn’t know he’d moved back to Arizona, that was very hard."

She doesn't say to hear about Alex's passing, but I can't think what else she would be referring to. Can anyone answer the question why JC would be notified he had died by the police?

Is it possible that the notification wasn't so much a standard notification to next of kin after a death, but was part of the investigation into his death, and his crimes?

I would love to know when that was.

Actually thinking about it, perhaps that's why she phrased it that way. They may have deemed it a suspicious death because of Tammy's exhumation and the missing children, and all the police investigations starting to join up. The FBI were already involved with IP and MBP, and MG. So perhaps police had questions for them about any people who might have wanted to harm him, about any communications from him, or possessions (weapons, electronic devices) or vehicles he had stored at their home. If they did ask them about known threats I would love to know what their answers were at that time.

Quote from MG:
“The bishop called and said, ‘Why are there cop cars around Zulema’s house?’ … He calls me back and said, ‘He died,'” Gibb says. “That completely threw me. … I had many different ideas. I thought, ‘Did he kill himself? … Or maybe somebody could have tried to kill him?’ I just really did not know. I was guessing all over the place.”
Part 3: Melanie Gibb discusses mysterious deaths, an earthquake, confronting Chad and Lori and her message for them now | East Idaho News

I'm not sure if police would have coordinated a response to include contacting his parents the same day as his death, before his autopsy even. I'm just wondering why ZP, MBP and Lori didn't notify JC.

Do JC and Summer not wonder why Lori and MBP didn't tell them Alex had died?

None of them thought Alex had been murdered by the nasty people threatening Lori for Charles' death? Knock me over with a feather.

MOO

Exactly! I too am wondering about the police call. His mother was not next of kin (his new wife was), UNLESS the marriage was a sham. But i guess the minister would have said? I'm not sure of the process for marriages in the US - does the marriage need to be registered somewhere, or is it automatically legal?

 

[Tortoise]

Exactly! I too am wondering about the police call. His mother was not next of kin (his new wife was), UNLESS the marriage was a sham. But i guess the minister would have said? I'm not sure of the process for marriages in the US - does the marriage need to be registered somewhere, or is it automatically legal?

I assume it's been registered because people here found the records, or maybe that was Justin Lum who found them, not sure.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I hear you -- this is where I wish we had a medical examiner on WS!

OK, brace yourself, I'm about to admit my humanity and that my thinking is evolving here. I agree that there are a number of things you're not going to find unless you're looking for them. And I admit that my own "suspension of disbelief" is based largely on stats and the fact that I don't think our primary actors in this case are smart enough or lucky enough to have killed a trucker in a way that would seem totally compatible with his undiagnosed medical condition that they didn't know about.

BUT, that said, I have read stuff nonstop all afternoon, bouncing back and forth between work (ha), this forum, and a bunch of NIH research. Most recently some stuff on autopsies and DVT. I am starting to think it will really boil down to a detailed tox screen, no matter what the DVT evidence is. Because guess what? The number of undiagnosed DVT cases who die below age 60 is startlingly high. What I'm saying is that if they did a second autopsy on AxC, I think it likely they would find evidence of DVT, and it STILL wouldn't mean he wasn't poisoned.

It will be morbidly ironic if he WAS poisoned, and the perpetrator just managed to get lucky enough to kill him with the same thing he might have died of a little later on anyway.

(edited for spelling and grammar)

IIRC, @joypath is a ME, but she hasn't followed this case that I've seen. Don't know of any others that could help with our questions at READ: The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox | East Idaho News

 

[Nikynoo]

Well, in a few reports it said that the ME report shows that detectives wrote that COX complained of shortness of breath about a week before dying. it does not say WHO told the detectives that info.
I have just read up on about 10 different news articles plus the ME report and nowhere does it say WHO told detectives that he had trouble breathing in the week prior to dying.
**I did find this little tidbit NOTEWORTHY however in one of the reports**
"At the bottom of Cox’s medical exam report, Wallis included how the opinions “are amendable to change should new, reliable and pertinent information come to light.”"***

***Side note- That transcript of the 911 call from ZP son is one of the strangest 911 calls I have ever heard.
He doesn't know Alex last name, he calls Alex his mother's Boyfriend even though he is married to his mother and is actually his Step-dad, he talks about the feces all around Alex body, and said that Alex is making a "whoo. whoo noice."
Medical examiner says Alex Cox had blood clots in his lungs and died of natural causes | East Idaho News

In the summary of AC's autopsy report, it states "The decedents wife reported that the descedent had complaints of burning in his chest and shortness of breath since Friday 6 December".

 

[indicolite22]

We do know from the first Dateline episode that Nate and the dateline people were in Hawaii and knew where Chad and Lori were, but we're asked to hang back a few days to not tip LE hand or spook Chad and Lori. Nate didn't swoop in for his now famous grilling until LE gave him the go ahead.

Nate also got a second tip from LE when Lori flew into Rexburg upon her extradition from Hawaii.

 

[Tortoise]

I've just watched part 3 of the MG interview. At the end, I'm just sat here shaking my head. Words fail me.

We also have IP's document to refer to:

"Later Melani explained "porting" and that they could travel there [Hawaii] by that method.

The first time hearing all of these new beliefs was a jolt. I was looking for someone spiritual, but this was a leap beyond that into concerning territory. I had fears and doubts, but I trusted Melani and wanted to give it a fair chance, so I continued to listen and ask questions in hopes it would click for me. It never did. There were fun and exciting ideas, but it felt like many of them were ripped straight out a Dungeons and Dragons manual. Between the stats, accounts of dark and light weapons, and words spoken in blessings, it sounded like someone had created a tabletop RPG based on the bible. While living something like that appealed to me, I couldn't find anything to confirm it as I prayed and asked. I figured anyone called to something like this would struggle, but how else would they be made aware of things like this? I continued to try to keep an open mind and proceed with caution."

I was originally going to say that perhaps she went through a period of some sort of de-programming, but I don't think so. I think she along with Alex and MBP had willingly suspended and abandoned all common sense, and MG's vanity is what stopped her from dobbing them in right away. She calls it pride. I won't call it denial, I think it is continuing to look for justification, as if there is some mystery clue to this in the bible and she can now preach the lessons. If she can understand all those passages from the bible she is not of low intelligence, I still see a woman with pride in her way, still, in the face of all these murders. That isn't sleuthing MG, a non POI, it's trying to understand what she is coming forward with, and how Chad works.

MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I hear you -- this is where I wish we had a medical examiner on WS!

OK, brace yourself, I'm about to admit my humanity and that my thinking is evolving here. I agree that there are a number of things you're not going to find unless you're looking for them. And I admit that my own "suspension of disbelief" is based largely on stats and the fact that I don't think our primary actors in this case are smart enough or lucky enough to have killed a trucker in a way that would seem totally compatible with his undiagnosed medical condition that they didn't know about.

BUT, that said, I have read stuff nonstop all afternoon, bouncing back and forth between work (ha), this forum, and a bunch of NIH research. Most recently some stuff on autopsies and DVT. I am starting to think it will really boil down to a detailed tox screen, no matter what the DVT evidence is. Because guess what? The number of undiagnosed DVT cases who die below age 60 is startlingly high. What I'm saying is that if they did a second autopsy on AxC, I think it likely they would find evidence of DVT, and it STILL wouldn't mean he wasn't poisoned.

It will be morbidly ironic if he WAS poisoned, and the perpetrator just managed to get lucky enough to kill him with the same thing he might have died of a little later on anyway.

(edited for spelling and grammar)

i have been asking for a second autopsy for quite a while.. the one "hope" is that we have heard that AZ LE has not closed the case. I also hope that if they find something in Tammy that will reopen the AZ autopsy.

 

[Tortoise]

Guess who I saw today while at the bank?

Mark Means and a second lawyer (not Prior ) leaving the women’s detention center together around lunch time. Idk if the second lawyer was a consult or someone to help means navigate things or if it was a mere coincidence to see Means with a second lawyer who happened to be there for another client.

All moo and my own observations

**I wish I could have gotten a picture but was in the middle of signing important documents. Just thought everyone would like an update on going ons.

I should have given better clarification. The bank I was at is right across the street from the entrance to the women’s center.

This may have already been asked, I'm still catching up. I'm curious to know how you knew was a lawyer?

 

[Nikynoo]

bringing this over from a previous thread
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #40

so, it would appear that BB was shot at as he drove past the Jeep and was turning into his home? Then he drove off and the Jeep followed him. So, BB did not turn into his drive but drove off somehwere else and the Jeep trailed him for a while? Does this indicate that there was a separate driver and the shooter was not alone?

 

[Nikynoo]

We also have IP's document to refer to:

"Later Melani explained "porting" and that they could travel there [Hawaii] by that method.

The first time hearing all of these new beliefs was a jolt. I was looking for someone spiritual, but this was a leap beyond that into concerning territory. I had fears and doubts, but I trusted Melani and wanted to give it a fair chance, so I continued to listen and ask questions in hopes it would click for me. It never did. There were fun and exciting ideas, but it felt like many of them were ripped straight out a Dungeons and Dragons manual. Between the stats, accounts of dark and light weapons, and words spoken in blessings, it sounded like someone had created a tabletop RPG based on the bible. While living something like that appealed to me, I couldn't find anything to confirm it as I prayed and asked. I figured anyone called to something like this would struggle, but how else would they be made aware of things like this? I continued to try to keep an open mind and proceed with caution."

I was originally going to say that perhaps she went through a period of some sort of de-programming, but I don't think so. I think she along with Alex and MBP had willingly suspended and abandoned all common sense, and MG's vanity is what stopped her from dobbing them in right away. She calls it pride. I won't call it denial, I think it is continuing to look for justification, as if there is some mystery clue to this in the bible and she can now preach the lessons. If she can understand all those passages from the bible she is not of low intelligence, I still see a woman with pride in her way, still, in the face of all these murders. That isn't sleuthing MG, a non POI, it's trying to understand what she is coming forward with, and how Chad works.

MOO

what is 'porting' or shouldn't I ask and would it negate the need for air travel via plane

 

[Lusitana]

I honestly don't understand why Lori even bothered registering JJ at the local elementary school in Idaho. That, to me, tells me that killing him wasn't the plan, things scalated quickly once they stepped foot in Idaho.

 

[Tortoise]

what is 'porting' or shouldn't I ask and would it negate the need for air travel via plane

oh my goodness, you don't know about Chad's portals?

He put one in Lori's closet so that they could communicate.

 

[GRT]

I think it's interesting how Melania Gibb describes her experience with this whole mess as "Satan came knocking..." in her letter to AVOW.

READ: Melanie Gibb's 7-page letter posted on AVOW | East Idaho News