Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #41

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I think it's interesting how Melania Gibb describes her experience with this whole mess as "Satan came knocking..." in her letter to AVOW.

READ: Melanie Gibb's 7-page letter posted on AVOW | East Idaho News
Otherwise know as, shirking personal responsibility for failing in your public and personal duty to protect people you care about. You know, reading this and listening to the nate interviews (especially the last one), I think MG put C and L on a pedestal. What sickens me, is that it is clear that in her view, both are clearly still on that pedestal.
 
In the summary of AC's autopsy report, it states "The decedents wife reported that the descedent had complaints of burning in his chest and shortness of breath since Friday 6 December".

Curious. If AxC’s wife’s statement can be trusted, and AxC was complaining of symptoms in advance of his death, it is highly unlikely that he committed suicide by undetectable poison.

Also, if AxC was involved in the death of Tammy, and she was killed by some sort of undetectable poison, wouldn’t he have been suspicious when he was suffering from such symptoms and sought help?

MOO.
 
I'm a scientist. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. But I have also personally witnessed numerous situations where dowsing seemed to work. I remain open minded but think it probably has something to do with human intuition in many cases and the fact that in many areas, wells are always productive if you dig deep enough.
The only way is to try it yourself. If you know where your incoming water pipe is approximately, then just try it. We had two metal rod from old tents that we had. They were L shaped. Place the small part of the L loosely in each hand and walk slowly with the long bit pointing forward. As you walk over the water pipe they pivot towards each other and actually cross over and point backwards as you walk past it. Weirdest thing ever. We were going to get a digger for our front garden and needed to know exactly where the pipe was before we could begin the work. We had a rough idea where it was as our water meter is about 200 metres away in a neighbouring field, but we did not know the exact route. Now we do.
 
Otherwise know as, shirking personal responsibility for failing in your public and personal duty to protect people you care about. You know, reading this and listening to the nate interviews (especially the last one), I think MG put C and L on a pedestal. What sickens me, is that it is clear that in her view, both are clearly still on that pedestal.


IMO, she's deeply immersed in "Hate the sin, love the sinner" reasoning, and she's not laying blame where she should -- directly on L and C.
 
I too was surprised when AC's autopsy results were finally released and indicated that he died of natural causes. Seems there shouldn't even be such a thing as a "natural" cause that would take someone's life at age 51. That's not natural.

But if AC's death WASN'T due to natural causes, I would've guessed suicide way before I guessed murder. Other than ZP (or JM?) there just weren't any other murderous "conspirator types" around in the week leading up to his death. Yeah, I suppose you could try to trick him with some supplement pills or "new" meds that you'd slipped him earlier, but that'd be a tough switch and sell. And I think it's much harder these days to mix up a drink containing antifreeze and have it not taste like, well, antifreeze. And coroners, I think, are catching on to that one.

No, my guess is that AC was enormously stressed. Stressed to the bone. Not a happy camper. No longer a clown. Feeling nothing but extreme guilt, shame, and fear - and beginning to think he just might wind up spending the rest of his life in his own private Idaho cell. I think there may also have been some deep seated self-hatred pathology stuff going on as well, but that's jmo.

Alex had just committed several unconscionable and heinous crimes. He might've convinved everyone in the cult that he was on board and faithful with all that LV, CD, MB, MG, ZP, and others were spewing about mortal probations, the 144k, zombies and stuff, but I don't think he really really believed. He just wanted Lori's approval. He just wanted attention. He was lost and just wanted love - and as a kind of sociopath (IMO) he'd do anything to get it.

So the crimes had to be weighing on his concience. He'd just gotten married to a woman he didn't love (and who certainly didn't love him). His sister appeared to be gone from his life (again) forever (and forever again?). The cops were surely closing in. And Alex Cox didn't even want to be Alex Cox anymore: he changed his last name to Pastenes. What a mess he had made of things.

And based on MB's reports of their last phone conversation, I strongly suspect that AC either knew he was dying, or knew he about to die, when the two of them were speaking on the phone. I think at that moment he was either already in the process of killing himself, or was just about to begin the process of killing himself, and MB could sense it.

The autopsy report has definitely been frustrating to a lot of us. I have almost felt that this particular autopsy report should have been beyond reproach or question, because if there was ANY death in this whole bizarre case that authorities (and a respective coroner) would've and should've KNOWN to look especially hard for any hard-to-find, difficult-to-detect, kryptonite, periodic-table-type poisons, THIS WAS IT! They couldn't have missed it! Could they?

Immediately after the (disappointing) results were posted, I suggested that Alex's PE could possibly have been caused by injecting air into a vein (an air embolism). Air injections/embolisms have been used in many suicides and murders in the past, but it's not the easiest method, mainly because it apparently takes a good bit of air. That aspect of it might complicate things in a murder, but it probably wouldn't deter someone attempting suicide.

And a suicide-by-air-injection-resulting-in-PE definitely doesn't fit into a nice package crime involving poor TD (using the same method, only for murder). You would have had to first somehow sedate her, and then inject her with the air. Even if the air embolism PE method couldn't be detected, the sedation drug probably could. But I don't really know what I'm talking about, so I think I'm going to bed.

And the stress had to be magnified on the day he died, since Tammy's body was exhumed the day before.
 
I'm a scientist. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. But I have also personally witnessed numerous situations where dowsing seemed to work. I remain open minded but think it probably has something to do with human intuition in many cases and the fact that in many areas, wells are always productive if you dig deep enough.

I have no idea why it works, maybe intuition or some sort of vibrational attraction, but I do know that we drilled three very expensive dry wells for water when we first moved to the country and finally, we took the neighbor's advice and called an old guy who came out and dowsed, or "water witched" as he called it. We drilled in the spot he picked and, voila! Water!
 
I honestly don't understand why Lori even bothered registering JJ at the local elementary school in Idaho. That, to me, tells me that killing him wasn't the plan, things scalated quickly once they stepped foot in Idaho.
It could have been more important to Lori to have him out of her way during the day. Especially if she was busy murdering her daughter. She would have needed a full time nanny for JJ.

moo
 
I honestly don't understand why Lori even bothered registering JJ at the local elementary school in Idaho. That, to me, tells me that killing him wasn't the plan, things scalated quickly once they stepped foot in Idaho.
I am thinking JJ was enrolled in Idaho school for/as a "free babysitter" since his regular babysitter (Tylee) would no longer be around. I believe Tylees demise was planned in advance and new "babysitter" in place jmo
Is there a date of his 1st day at school?
Eta He was enrolled Sept 3rd per timeline, so within a couple days upon arriving in Rexburg.
 
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And the stress had to be magnified on the day he died, since Tammy's body was exhumed the day before.
He also knew MG was going to the police. In fact his chest pains (if they are true) came about on the same date MG went to the police.

6 Dec 2019 - RPD is contacted by Melanie Gibb. MG says that both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow called MG on Nov 26, 2019, at separate times and asked her to tell police that she had JJ even though JJ was not with her. “Melanie informed RPD that she declined Chad’s and Lori’s requests.”
 
what is 'porting' or shouldn't I ask :) and would it negate the need for air travel via plane :)

It is short for teleporting as in Teleportation I think.

Teleportation - Wikipedia

They believed they could teleport from a closet into each other's closet. There is no evidence this ever happened. So it is a theory. Why fly commercially when you can just port and not be found by police?

MG actually has a podcast called "Finding your Closet" but it has been pulled for sometime now so I don't know anyone who has heard it. I will find some links.

02 - Time to Warrior Up - Find Your Closet - Listen - Preparing A People Podcast

Description
Our Warrior Trio, Melanie, Lori & Jason, help prepare us with more pure ways to worship and honor the meaning of Christmas and every day, through the process of sanctification. They explain what "finding your closet" means and why forgiveness plays such an important role in our most basic needs to love and be loved, from heaven, from others, and from within. To see Jason's videos about his Book Series "Time to Warrior Up" and "Teancum: Ghost Soldier Part 1 & 2" go to www.TheWarChapters.com. More

Please note we have not found a working copy of this but this is the description. The podcast is dated Dec 2018.
 
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I'm a scientist. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. But I have also personally witnessed numerous situations where dowsing seemed to work. I remain open minded but think it probably has something to do with human intuition in many cases and the fact that in many areas, wells are always productive if you dig deep enough.

The only way is to try it yourself. If you know where your incoming water pipe is approximately, then just try it. We had two metal rod from old tents that we had. They were L shaped. Place the small part of the L loosely in each hand and walk slowly with the long bit pointing forward. As you walk over the water pipe they pivot towards each other and actually cross over and point backwards as you walk past it. Weirdest thing ever. We were going to get a digger for our front garden and needed to know exactly where the pipe was before we could begin the work. We had a rough idea where it was as our water meter is about 200 metres away in a neighbouring field, but we did not the exact route. Now we do.

There are many believers in its effectiveness, however numerous studies showed that none of them showed better than chance results and the success was because of unconscious human motions (see Studies section of the article). So probably the result with the pipe could be explained by a matter of chance or explained by observations from ground surface clues. MOO
 
I honestly don't understand why Lori even bothered registering JJ at the local elementary school in Idaho. That, to me, tells me that killing him wasn't the plan, things scalated quickly once they stepped foot in Idaho.
I thought such as well. It just brought more strangers into the mix.
 
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I honestly don't understand why Lori even bothered registering JJ at the local elementary school in Idaho. That, to me, tells me that killing him wasn't the plan, things scalated quickly once they stepped foot in Idaho.

Maybe Lori had lots of things she wanted to do without JJ around? Him being at school certainly would expand her window of opportunity.
 
There are many believers in its effectiveness, however numerous studies showed that none of them showed better than chance results and the success was because of unconscious human motions (see Studies section of the article). So probably the result with the pipe could be explained by a matter of chance or explained by observations from ground surface clues. MOO
It is true that I knew it was there somewhere but not the exact route. We tried it for a lark, prior to getting a professional but the digger driver told us he had seen it work on building sites so we did it and it saved us paying a professional.

I don't believe in porting though.
 
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It is short for teleporting as in Teleportation I think.

They believed they could teleport from a closet into each other's closet.

MG actually has a podcast called "Finding your Closet" but it has been pulled for sometime now so I don't know anyone who has heard it. I will find some links.
That's interesting because she didn't seem to understand how it all worked recently.

Other teachings alarmed Gibb, such as Chad creating a spiritual “portal” in Lori’s closet or other places.

“A portal is a spot where he said a prayer or something to create the portal. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know. … (But) it was a way for them to interact spiritually,” Gibb says. “I thought it was different. I thought, ‘How do you do that?’ … It was pretty extreme, but to me, everything was new.”

Part 1: Melanie Gibb describes Chad and Lori Daybells' religious beliefs and her relationship with the couple | East Idaho News
 
I'm a scientist. I am HIGHLY skeptical of this. But I have also personally witnessed numerous situations where dowsing seemed to work. I remain open minded but think it probably has something to do with human intuition in many cases and the fact that in many areas, wells are always productive if you dig deep enough.

My late father was a petroleum geologist working for a small drilling firm in the Midwest when the company's owner became convinced that a dowser could help them locate drilling sites. Needless to say, my father was less than happy, but had to go along with the boss and cooperate. After five years the company's new lease production dropped drastically and my dad finally left and set up his own operation and did very well using geological science. These developments led me to become fascinated with the pseudoscience of dowsing and I developed a particular interest in water dowsers. Human intuition, superstition and psychological factors lead many people to believe in non-scientific practices or non-medical claims. In fact, there have been no careful double-blind studies that have corroborated the validity of dowsing (something that would be quite easy and repeatedly verified if dowsing truly worked). The Randi Educational Foundation will give you a million dollars if you can successfully perform dowsing under controlled conditions. If there was a phenomenon that worked here it would be provable under controlled conditions. Sadly, many people are willing to accept anecdotal claims rather than insisting on proof for extraordinary claims. If you are on the fence I suggest you read the Wikipedia summary of attempts to validate dowsing and/or check out the many scientific explanations available online HERE or HERE or HERE.
 

LE would still have needed to see proof of life, though. Jmo
No. They had absolutely no legal rights or standing to demand any type of "Welfare Check". The only way it would have happened is if they had convinced the State of Idaho child welfare to get involved.

Why? Because biological grandparents have zero rights to any contact with a child that was legally adopted. Not even a "Welfare Check".


They would not have to show proof of life and then it is processed through the appropriate channels, which is what happened in this case.

In regards to the other part, that is 1000% inaccurate. Any person can initiate a welfare check. Relative or complete stranger. Being biological grandparents or Suzie, the cashier at the grocery store is irrelevant
 
It has just occurred to me that the jeep being in Arizona without its rear seat and wheel on 2nd Oct clearly indicated Tylee no longer needed it. So who was using a dead girl's jeep and driving it in October and November? Alex? MB?
It was recovered in Rexburg so who drove it back? Didn't they wonder why Tylee didn't need her jeep anymore?

The evidence is compelling that Alex drove it down and back immediately before and after he shot at Brandon on 2 October. It's sighting in AZ and tracing back to Rexburg prompted the "loose surveillance" request by the Gilbert police to the Rexburg police on 1 November.

And you're right, and raise an interesting point: at the time of the shooting attempt either Alex knew Tylee was dead and it didn't bother him, or he swallowed Lori's story that she was at BYU-I or some other place. I think he knew she was dead (ref. MG's statement in her EIN interview that he said he totally believed in the zombie stuff), possibly because he had a role in her murder and burial. If he, Chad, and Lori suspected that it was identified in AZ, it would have been in their best interest not to be driving it around Rexburg.
 
My late father was a petroleum geologist working for a small drilling firm in the Midwest when the company's owner became convinced that a dowser could help them locate drilling sites. Needless to say, my father was less than happy, but had to go along with the boss and cooperate. After five years the company's new lease production dropped drastically and my dad finally left and set up his own operation and did very well using geological science. These developments led me to become fascinated with the pseudoscience of dowsing and I developed a particular interest in water dowsers. Human intuition, superstition and psychological factors lead many people to believe in non-scientific practices or non-medical claims. In fact, there have been no careful double-blind studies that have corroborated the validity of dowsing (something that would be quite easy and repeatedly verified if dowsing truly worked). The Randi Educational Foundation will give you a million dollars if you can successfully perform dowsing under controlled conditions. If there was a phenomenon that worked here it would be provable under controlled conditions. Sadly, many people are willing to accept anecdotal claims rather than insisting on proof for extraordinary claims. If you are on the fence I suggest you read the Wikipedia summary of attempts to validate dowsing and/or check out the many scientific explanations available online HERE or HERE or HERE.

Thank you for saying this (says the geologist working in groundwater resources for 20 years). I have learned over the years that this is an agree to disagree topic.
 
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