Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

[indicolite22]

And AC is there in the photo, larger than life.

Yes, I just can't imagine that this happy looking, smiling person would kill or help kill Tylee less than 24 hours later. No sign of a heavy heart when the picture was taken.

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes, I've seen a bunch of articles and references to dismemberment and one major newspaper reported JJ was beheaded. I believe the "dismemberment" is interpreted from the description of the burn site and finding two bones and later more bones and tissue in other areas. I think we should be careful before we use terms like dismemberment as it is possible the body was burned and afterwards the remains stirred -- which would not be what people classically think of when they hear dismemberment. Similarly, the affidavit refers to Chad driving off when they discovered "the head" and this suggests the head may have been separated, but not necessarily. In any event, it shouldn't be characterized as "beheading."

At this point we simply do not know what was done with the bodies and we should be careful before jumping to conclusions.

EDIT: Just saw the reference to Nate's report saying she was dismembered. I'll defer to him as he may have more information, but we can't jump to that conclusion based on the affidavit.

I know what you mean about the head reference. But upon rereading the affadavit, it was clear to me that where the FBI cut the plastic, the crown of the head was revealed. I just think (hope) that the paragraph that referenced the head was poorly written.

 

[vislaw]

Just for what it is worth, I grew up in rural Kansas and saw raccoons in daylight all the time. Moreover, I had a pet raccoon for a full year who rode on my shoulders and walked on a leash. Some oilfield roustabouts found her after killing her mother and asked me if I wanted to take her in. Raccoons make great pets until they grow a bit and become wild and dangerous. Mine got run over after running into the street while off her leash when we were playing in the front yard. One of the best pets I ever had while I did have her.

 

[Kimmer]

JMO
A couple things that I was wondering about. Others may have already suggested one or both of these could be a possibility.

The racoon story from CD may have been code speak to indicate one of the children was taken out. A signal to others that the deed was done maybe.

For the other thing, I saw where it was mentioned that Chad had previously mentioned that Tammy would die in a car accident. And since there has been some confusion over where certain cars were around certain times I have to wonder if either CD or LV or both had tried to snip the brake lines or do some other damage to the vehicle that would cause an accident.

The only problem with that theory is they would have to have known the victims would be driving somewhere dangerous like if they went on certain roads that had hair pin turns or steep inclines. Or maybe a vehicle fire type accident where someone would be sent to fill up some gas tanks and they maybe were trying to rig an explosion.

Unless there is any evidence of vehicles needing repaired or if we know of any vehicle mechanical issues then it would be hard to prove they attempted something like that.

I just found it real strange how he was talking about an accident and since he likes to have his false prophecies come true then he may have tried to do something to their vehicles and it was not working out. So Plan B or C was ultimately used.

Well he did send Tammy to visit her family in the weeks before her death.

 

[Nikynoo]

It wouldn't make sense to study the effectiveness of a drug in a manner that it isn't administered, so I doubt the effectiveness of it has been studied. (An easier example: no one studies what happens if you drink IV liquids, because they aren't administered that way.) ODT's shouldn't be crushed, they should be dissolved on your tongue. That doesn't stop people experimenting, so if someone wanted to try to make a mint julep out of a Risperdal ODT....I guess they could.

And this isn't credentials by any means, but I've administered these types of medications (ODT) as a nurse, I have a current license, and I've been retired for a long time.

EDIT: I can also tell you that, in real life, if you handle these tablets, they'll already begin to melt because of the moisture naturally on your fingers or even a bit of humidity in the air. They are TINY and they melt FAST.

You mention that they begin to melt when handled, can the medication be absorbed via the skin?

 

[A2FMNST]

It wouldn't make sense to study the effectiveness of a drug in a manner that it isn't administered, so I doubt the effectiveness of it has been studied. (An easier example: no one studies what happens if you drink IV liquids, because they aren't administered that way.) ODT's shouldn't be crushed, they should be dissolved on your tongue. That doesn't stop people experimenting, so if someone wanted to try to make a mint julep out of a Risperdal ODT....I guess they could.

And this isn't credentials by any means, but I've administered these types of medications (ODT) as a nurse, I have a current license, and I've been retired for a long time.

EDIT: I can also tell you that, in real life, if you handle these tablets, they'll already begin to melt because of the moisture naturally on your fingers or even a bit of humidity in the air. They are TINY and they melt FAST.

Another question for you. It says here that you can take it with water, just don’t chew or crush it.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/20034-risperidone-orally-disintegrating-tablets

While you may take these tablets with water, it is not necessary to do so. You can take it with or without food.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Oooooo thank you. Have you ever dealt with this medication in a clinical environment?

As a nurse, I've only administered other ODT drugs. But I have helped someone (outside my job) access and take Risperdal in this formulation.

You mention that they begin to melt when handled, can the medication be absorbed via the skin?

Doubtful -- because it's mean to be absorbed into mucous membranes. It just gets very soft very fast if you have any moisture on your hands. (I wouldn't normally administer it with fingers though. Peel off the foil and drop it onto the tongue, without touching it.)

 

[Spartygirl]

Just as we thought...AC in the photo...

Shane Bishop

@shanebishop

This just in: FBI releases new photo of Tylee, JJ and Alex Cox in Yellowstone National Pakr on last day Tylee was known to be alive. Tune in for an all new report tonight #Dateline #ChadDaybell

photo at link
https://twitter.com/shanebishop/status/1275115223326720001

He was always in the photo
The first photo they posted months ago showed AxC in the picture with Tylee and JJ.
This is just a newly released one but is very similar to the one that has already been out for awhile now.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Another question for you. It says here that you can take it with water, just don’t chew or crush it.

Risperidone orally-disintegrating tablets

While you may take these tablets with water, it is not necessary to do so. You can take it with or without food.

I only know two things 1) they are formulated to be absorbed into mucous membranes, 2) if there was a bottle of Risperdal, it wasn't ODT -- they are foil packed.

 

[Spartygirl]

He’s always been in the photo.. I’m confused, we didn’t think it, we knew it?

Correct-- AxC has always been in the photo.
We knew he was there with them at Yellowstone Park and have already seen a photo, so not sure either.
JMO

 

[Considering]

Nate is referring to the Affadavit, but the document does not state dismemberment. At the moment, I am still of the view that the remains distintergrated after burning. IMO

I agree although it is possible that someone told Nate something that isn't in the document. I think Chad is too lazy to go to the trouble of dismembering a body.

 

[Forever Young]

Just for what it is worth, I grew up in rural Kansas and saw raccoons in daylight all the time. Moreover, I had a pet raccoon for a full year who rode on my shoulders and walked on a leash. Some oilfield roustabouts found her after killing her mother and asked me if I wanted to take her in. Raccoons make great pets until they grow a bit and become wild and dangerous. Mine got run over after running into the street while off her leash when we were playing in the front yard. One of the best pets I ever had while I did have her.

My dad brought a kit home one day, I think I was 15. We bottle fed her. She was sweet smelling and hilarious to play with. Luckily we lived on the edge of a park, and she just kept going a little farther off, a little farther off, and went back to the wild. She loved playing in the water hose and I can still remember the little curlicues of fur on her tummy when she got wet. Very cute and clever animal.

 

[A2FMNST]

I only know two things 1) they are formulated to be absorbed into mucus membranes, 2) if there was a bottle of Risperdal, it wasn't ODT -- they are foil packed.

Ah, that’s an excellent point. I thought for sure the affidavit said pill BOTTLE, not foil pack....but

I have had zofran ODT - And they rolled up the foil pack and put it in an amber medicine bottle presumably because the amber bottle is kid proof?

Thoughts?

 

[janx]

I know what you mean about the head reference. But upon rereading the affadavit, it was clear to me that where the FBI cut the plastic, the crown of the head was revealed. I just think (hope) that the paragraph that referenced the head was poorly written.

Maybe it wasn't quite clear since the head and the rest of the body were mentioned separately. I think people just made assumptions. Point #21 in the affidavit was even more ambiguous.

 

[Nikynoo]

They would go through with the preliminary hearing because they have to. Due process requires a court must determine there is sufficient evidence to permit a case to go forward and, in this case, there is plenty of evidence to support the original charges against Lori for desertion/contempt. Thus, they have to go forward with that preliminary hearing. They COULD upgrade the charges to murder if they wished, but doing so would require them to charge crimes that likely are not fully developed -- a dangerous approach you want to avoid. If possible, the prosecution wants to delay charging while they get all their ducks in a row and develop as much evidence as possible to nail both of them. Starting the process prematurely could really bite the state in the rear. When you have both defendants incarcerated there is absolutely no reason to rush unless you are certain of the means, motive and method used to support murder charges. My guess is they have a lot to do before they can wrap up an airtight case.

I think this is what I was trying to get to in an earlier post. From what I can see, the desertion charges against Lori cannot be proven now that the children have been found deceased, so will these be dismissed or not? I recognise though, that the contempt charge will remain.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Ah, that’s an excellent point. I thought for sure the affidavit said pill BOTTLE, not foil pack....but

I have had zofran ODT - And they rolled up the foil pack and put it in an amber medicine bottle presumably because the amber bottle is kid proof?

Thoughts?

Do I think they used Risperdal to cause a PE? No. But anything's possible, and I'm not about to say never with this crowd.

 

[ReadySet]

Maybe it's kind of like LE directing a message to the perp in the Delphi girls' murders: "The way you left them isn't the way they are now."

IMO, since it is a hi-res photo, it's being offered to the media for publication. I agree that it's a shocking photo, given that the FBI have indicated they believe AC was directly involved in the murders and burials. He himself is dead and can't be charged, will never go to trial, never confess or give any explanation. So I think the photo is just terribly poignant given these two happy kids and their murderers taking and posing in the photo. I think FBI just want to honour the victims and the cruelty of what happened to them. Perhaps some media outlets will edit out the image of AC, but that's up to the media to decide. JMO

 

[A2FMNST]

Do I think they used Risperdal to cause a PE? No. But anything's possible, and I'm not about to say never with this crowd.

I did some research on the correlation of second generation antipsychotics (SGAs) and PE. Some very interesting reading. I’m not a doctor so I would be curious what a doctor of psychiatry would say...

Is there anyone you know with this training? I’d love to pick their brain.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Maybe it wasn't quite clear since the head and the rest of the body were mentioned separately. I think people just made assumptions. Point #21 in the affidavit was even more ambiguous.

I'm still waiting to hear for sure. The last point (was that #21?) only mentioned a head. Jmo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Could the new picture be taken from a different phone?

The first picture was so blurry (on purpose? crappy camera?). Could the first picture be taken by ACs phone and the second Ls phone.

We now have LE confirmation that they have recovered all of the data from ACs phone.

If the new pic was taken from Ls phone, it may be a message from LE to L. Hey L, we have all the data from your phone too!

I like the way you think!