Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #11

[diggndeeperstill]

It would have been. That’s the date it was filed, not the date it was served. That’s only one piece of what she would have been given. It’s not the actual service form.

Oh I understand. I was just trying to help figure out who would have served it. I was thinking maybe Nate said in his reports.

 

[Pax10]

Kay’s son is JJ’s biological father, so JJ has an open/kinship adoption.
JJ’s biological parents have not expressed any desire to get custody of JJ in the last 7 years. Although, I could imagine they feel pretty awful right now - probably didn’t imagine that uncle Charles would be shot dead and that Lori would go off the deep end - but they signed away their parental rights 7 years ago, and birthparents can’t easily “re-gain custody” of children they relinquish. In fact, almost all states have sealed adoption records and adult adoptees are never allowed to see their actual birth certificate (they get issued a fake one with adoptive parents names on it). Kay and Larry were happy with getting to visit and talk to JJ, they weren’t trying to take him away from Lori, they want to see their (biological) grandson because they love him.

Edited:
Some of this is up to date and some of it isn't - about current adoptions, anyway. It sounds like you have much more knowledge about this specific adoption than I do, though.

My older son is adopted. We have his original birth certificate, his social worker offered to get it for us. We also have a copy of his adoption records.

I think the originals of his adoption records are sealed now, but with adoptions from the fostercare system, I think there's an element of safety involved in that.

Our son came to us through CPS, so I don't know what happens when birth parents actively don't want their names known. My guess, and only a guess, is that they would still be with held. I could be wrong about that, though. I don't think that was a priority in our situation.

I'm not posting this to be critical of you, I think it used to be just the way you described it.

I'm just posting this so people reading know that the situation has changed, at least in some places. I have a soft spot for kids in fostercare and when positive changes are made, I like that.

I can only imagine how JJs birth parents are feeling now though - particularly if they consented to the adoption. That would add an element of betrayal to the already heartbreaking situation.

I hope his extended family gets to see him safe and happy soon. I'm finding this situation baffling.

The only way I see credence in the custody battle idea is if Lori basically had that as a delusion, which, I mean, maybe?

If a child isn't being abused, grandparents wouldn't have any reason to be given custody and I'm not aware of any evidence that anyone was trying to get custody.

MOO, of course.

 

[tealrose]

I suppose it’s possible they handled service in some special way, but the normal takes some time, even in next-door states, because it has to be passed from one law enforcement office to another. And there’s some weekend days in there, too. And a holiday. So it’d only be 5 business days.

 

[Avocado49]

In other words, it pretty clearly indicates that Idaho is seeking/sought custody first, Kay and Larry’s filing is for placement after that. So the state of Idaho has already started along the path for charges of Child Custody Interference, it’s just a matter of time. The state of Idaho had already done what I thought was coming next!

Yes! The state is seeking custody - and Lori brought that on herself. Once the state has the children, they will decide about placement. The kids, if found alive, will likely be in a foster home temporarily. I’m glad the Woodcocks applied for guardianship.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

You need to read this post of Justin’s and look for KV’s sweet comments. Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[tealrose]

Oh I understand. I was just trying to help figure out who would have served it. I was thinking maybe Nate said in his reports.

Which agency, you mean? Because it wouldn’t have been a private server, not with the state as the petitioner.

Remembering it was the holiday, too, made me think it may have been that they (non-Hawaii law enforcement that were in Hawaii) didn’t set off to Hawaii with the search warrants until after she was served. I’d imagine that was when Nate and etc were given there heads-up, too.

 

[tealrose]

You need to read this post of Justin’s and look for KV’s sweet comments. Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Oh, good. That would probably be considered best, states like to keep sibs together. Provided sib agreed, given age, since Idaho gives weight to preference. (From that manual I posted the other day...)

I’m not optimistic the kids will be found safe, but I’m glad the best options are prepared for if they are.

Wow, I so much want them to be safe. For their sake, and for Kay & Larry & Colby. I don’t usually get attached, but Kay’s press conference and Colby’s video got to me.

 

[MsBetsy]

It’s “amended” which means falsified to make it appear as though the adoptive mother has given live birth. The original birth certificate is then sealed forever. Only 8 states allow adult adoptees access to their original birth certificates- even in the age of DNA testing and reunions via social media. The amended birth certificate is a legitimate document re: a child enrolling in school, getting a social security # and ID, (or receiving death benefits), but it’s not a legitimate record of the birth like all non-adoptees have access to. Of course the issue of adoptees having their identity erased goes much deeper than the false birth certificate.

Yes, I live in NY and I have such a birth certificate myself.

I have never tried to obtain my original birth certificate but in all these years I've never heard anyone say my birth certificate is "fake."

I understand that it is not a legitimate "record of birth."But that certainly does not mean the birth certificate is fake.

That's all I meant.

Or are you saying the birth certificate was falsified illegally? Maybe I just don't understand.

Imo

 

[Trask]

I think it means they took a few days to serve her with it in Hawaii. I wonder why it took that long?

Wanted 'Cult Mom' Lori Vallow booked a Hawaii hotel room under her real name | Daily Mail Online

Daily Mail has an exclusive interview with the Kauai Beach Resort manager. He says Lori checked in on Jan. 11 using her real name. When LE came asking, he discovered that they had taken a photo of her drivers license with an address on it that LE didn't know about. It doesn't say what date LE learned about the new address but the manager did give them a heads up when Lori made the second reservation so they knew where to wait for them when they came out from behind the gate.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Not sure if anyone listened to this but Justin says in his report that a warrant was served to Gilbert Pediatrics to get JJ and Tylee’s medical records. Sounds like it was some time in the past. But I’m glad to hear that! “There’s nothing that I see in the... - Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix | Facebook

 

[KonaHonu]

It is not rare for insulin dependent diabetics to become hypoglycemic. I know two insulin-dependent diabetics who have had dangerously low blood sugar. One way this can happen is if your normal dose of insulin is too much because you haven’t eaten enough beforehand. Of course, simply taking too much, more than your prescribed dose of insulin, can also cause hypoglycemia and potentially death. Any idiot can inject insulin, by the way. You don’t inject in a vein.

I’ve had these emergencies with loved ones quite often this year. I carry glucose tablets, but they were very nearly not enough one time.

So, did his sister have insulin? If so, I wonder who gave her last shot.

All true. I guess my point assumed she did not use insulin and was on top of her nutrition/glucose levels

 

[Gardener1850]

The 16th was a Thursday... depending on if they had to mail it to Hawaii, and then service is generally done “as they have time”, because it would have been local law enforcement serving, probably... and we’ve been told they’re short-handed by locals. (Isn’t everywhere these days?) I bet a local or two might be able to tell us typical service times... but it’s probably reasonable or fast for out-of-state service.

We were told that Madison County Prosecutor, Rob Wood, traveled to Kauai in person. I wonder if he was the one to serve the order (or at least oversaw it)? They also sent a Deputy and two Rexburg police officers. Getting all of those officials to Kauai at the same time might have taken a few days of coordination. MOO.

 

[Cartie]

If LV is no longer legal guardian of the children. Can she be arrested for kidnap or something similar. Hoping it opens up new possibilities.

 

[tresir2012]

But once the fbi and police are questioning if those kids are even alive those trust funds (if they have them) would surely be frozen? Surely not giving proof of life would put a stop to that?

That is what has been discussed here already regarding any social security benefits she could still be receiving and is possibly likely to happen with the recent court action. But if there are private payments then Lori could be the trustee or executor. We wouldn't know. She appears to have money from somewhere if it is true she could be paying $6k per month rent in Hawaii and had the baggie of cash. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Spoiler alert, I think I watch too many crime dramas. Trying to piece these together in my mind, here’s where my thoughts have been racing and definitely MOO. According to the timeline these are the deaths or harm that we know Alex Cox was involved in some way as well as a few just plain suspicious incidents. Just food for thought.


BBM


25 May 1998 - Stacey Cox Cope, the sister of Lori and Alex Cox, dies supposedly of diabetic shock. Family interviews say only Alex was at home with her and he used her credit card while she was dead in the home; Stacey is survived by a young daughter named Melani (family interviews on GH; Daily Mail). Stacey Lynn Cope (1966-1998) - Find A Grave...


5 Aug 2007 – Lori’s brother, AC, attacks & threatens her 3rd ex-husband, JR in Travis Co, TX. JR was leaving after a custody visit with Tylee when AC approached him in the parking lot, pulled a stun gun & shocked JR with it twice. JR got up to flee and AC chased him. JR fled past a witness who saw AC with the stun gun and AC walked away after that (Court Docs, FOX 10 Phoenix).

Suspicious deaths that are not directly tied to AC

So “what if” Lori knew what really happened to her sister SC and threatened to tell authorities what happened if AC did not help her with the “problem” with Joseph.


Apr 2018 - Joseph Anthony Ryan, Jr. -- 3rd ex-husband of Lori, and father of Tylee, dies at his AZ home. His body wasn't found for 3 weeks. The death was ruled a heart attack and he was cremated, meaning no 2nd autopsy can be done (Fox13 Phoenix).


And then,


Approx Jan 2019 – Lori is staying with her brother Alex. Lori and AC are seen arguing loudly in the street outside of AC’s San Tan Valley, AZ home. A neighbor says he thought Lori and AC were married the way they were arguing. “She was screaming at him accusing him of bringing disgrace on their family”. After the fight Lori left AC’s house and was not seen there again by the neighbor (Exact date unknown, Jan 10, 2020 Daily Mail says “about a year ago”).


Maybe she continues to threaten and manipulate AC


11 July 2019, abt 8:30 a.m. - Charles Vallow is fatally shot twice in the chest at his home in 5500 block of S. Four Peaks Place, Chandler, AZ, allegedly by Lori's brother Alex Cox during a family argument. Lori was separated from CV at the time. CV came to the house to pick up JJ. AC was allegedly hit in the head with a baseball bat during the incident. AC called 911 and performed CPR on CV until emergency crews arrived. Police initially ruled the death self-defense and no charges were filed; However, Chandler PD have since said the investigation remains open (Fox10 Phoenix, Daily Mail).



11 July 2019 – Afternoon - Neighbors report seeing a loud pool party with music and many people swimming in the backyard of the Chandler AZ house where CV was shot to death that morning. Alex stayed at the house for several days even though he lived elsewhere in the area (Post Register).


And equally suspicious given all of the above?


2 Oct 2019 – BB, husband of Lori’s niece Melani, is shot at in the driveway of his Gilbert, AZ home; A bullet narrowly misses him and shatters the driver’s side window of BB’s car. The shooter is driving a vehicle matching the description of Tylee’s Jeep. A police report is filed. The Jeep was caught on CCTV and was later confirmed to be registered to the late Charles Vallow. (Family interview on GH; Fox News & Arizona Republic).


9 Oct 2019 - Tammy has an encounter with a masked man with a gun outside her ID home which she contacted the police about. She also posted about it on Facebook:

“Something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so you can watch out,”...“I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway. As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun. He shot at me several times, although I don’t think it was loaded. I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house...” (East Idaho News, Daily Mail)


18 Oct 2019 – Tammy goes to bed having a coughing fit (according to Chad when he called her family to tell them she was dead).


19 Oct 2019 - Tammy is found dead by family members in her ID home at 202 N 1900 E, Rexburg; The ME in Rexburg only spent about 4 hrs on her autopsy and ruled her death “natural causes"


Coincidence? Or did LV continue to use her knowledge of her sisters death to manipulate AC? And then could he have finally gotten to the point where he refused to continue and she had to silence him.


12 Dec 2019 - Alex Cox, brother of Lori, was found dead in Gilbert, AZ of unknown causes; we are awaiting an autopsy report. Investigation into his death is being handled by the Gilbert PD.


Does not tell us where the children are or what happened to them, but it would appear to give Lori and Chad reason to not be worried in they’re warped narcissistic mind. After all if the above is true no one could ever prove that they had anything to do with any of the deaths or other harm. And now that he is dead they could also blame AC for the children’s disappearance and possible death.


MOO and BBM

When Lori's sister died I wonder who became the guardian of her young daughter M? Could it have been Lori? MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Wanted 'Cult Mom' Lori Vallow booked a Hawaii hotel room under her real name | Daily Mail Online

This is interesting if true from the DM. LE were tipped off as to where Lori was because she checked in to a resort hotel using a driving licence ID with an address they weren't aware of.

"Minicola, general manager of the Kauai Beach Resort and Spa, told DailyMail.com that Vallow and Daybell checked into Room 2509 on January 11 paying $294 for one night. The fifth-floor king-bed room with mountain views was booked under the name Lori Ryan, her name when she was married to Tylee's father.

They then booked another night last weekend, but this time cops were waiting for them.

'Detectives came on to the property asking to see me confidentially,' Minicola said.

'They told me who they were looking for and said it was a big national case and other police departments would be arriving on Kauai in the next week or two.'

Minicola said he found the record of Lori Ryan's stay - and then discovered his staff had taken a photograph of her Hawaii driver's license that police knew nothing about."

The licence was in the name of Lori Ryan.

ETA I see Trask has posted this link already but I will leave this up too.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

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[tresir2012]

How though? Whoever has custody right now isn’t exactly going to call social security. The FBI is searching for these kids. No one will get the funds while these kids are missing.

Lori is the one who officially has custody of them which is why LE served her with the court order to produce them and visited her to do the welfare check in November. Based on the DM article they clearly knew she was in Hawai but did not know her actual address.

 

[indicolite22]

Interesting comments re Tylee's father at: Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

I'm surprised that after all this time Lori still has defenders.

 

[tresir2012]

But the Vallows are JJ’s family, as well as being an important part of his identity - without them he has no genetic mirroring and his trauma is compounded. Adoptees, even ones who are treated well by adoptive parents, are 4x more likely to die by suicide due to this primal wound.

I can’t see how on earth this could be looked at as good parenting by Lori - she has basically re-homed and abandoned a young adopted child with autism whose father has just died violently, how is that justifiable? You really think JJ needs protection from Kay and Larry?

I don't believe I said Jj needs protection from KV and LV at all. And I certainly did not mention good parenting by LV.