Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

[BigAl16]

I'm not sure if this has been posted. Apologies if it's already floating around the thread.

More light shed on autopsies surrounding Daybells

Interesting that the Sheriff is saying it wasn't the family requesting or turning down an autopsy, but a coroner decision. I wonder if that is true and if the Sheriff believes it.

 

[justice be served]

Is it a possibility that both toxicology results are being held back by LE for both deaths? That behind the scenes, LE is preparing its case (assuming that poisoning or other nefarious reasons are the COD?). Just putting that out there.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Interesting that the Sheriff is saying it wasn't the family requesting or turning down an autopsy, but a coroner decision. I wonder if that is true and if the Sheriff believes it.

Spinning the story. Whatever is best for the sheriff and coroner.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

I'm not sure if this has been posted. Apologies if it's already floating around the thread.

More light shed on autopsies surrounding Daybells

When asked if the detective’s phone call was the reason for the exhumation, Humphries said it was one of the reasons, but there were others.

“That was one of the reasons. There were a number of issues, and we took those to a judge in Utah, and he agreed to let us exhume the body,” Humphries said.

On Dec. 11, Rexburg police announced the body of Tammy had been exhumed for an autopsy as “her death may be suspicious.”

 

[tresir2012]

The private investigator hired by BB back in October could easily have been monitoring everyone's whereabouts so I hope LE was.

I don't know if this counts as MSM, but for a few dollars you can pay to get a phone's location. MOO, a PI would know how to do this.
Bail Bond Company Let Bounty Hunters Track Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint, and AT&T Phones for $7.50

T-Mobile ‘Put My Life in Danger’ Says Woman Stalked With Black Market Location Data

Looks like it could be against the law though. Is it? LE have to do this lawfully with a search warrant or court would throw the case out IMO.

 

[Bray2020]

Interesting that the Sheriff is saying it wasn't the family requesting or turning down an autopsy, but a coroner decision. I wonder if that is true and if the Sheriff believes it.

I'm wondering the same thing. I find the Sheriff's representation of the dispatcher a bit odd. When another police agency calls for information about an autopsy, I would think the dispatcher would not use the word "refused" if the coroner made the decision to not perform an autopsy. Sure, she probably doesn't have all the information, but the word choice seems deliberate. IMO

 

[tresir2012]

While a political orphan, if someone were to ask me to pick something I guess I would be closer aligned with libertarianism than any other movement. To sum it up, it is the desire to be left alone and be able to maintain what is mine with no outside influences telling me I need to pay some kind of tax or fee for the "privilege" of ownership. It is also the belief that others can do whatever they wish as long as they are not harming others. For example, people can smoke pot all they want as long as they don't drive while stoned and kill someone. In terms of religion there are similar attitudes: if you want to worship Satan in the comfort of your own home knock yourself out but if you want to kill people for Satan that changes things. It is a "live and let live" attitude.

Libertarianism does have two extremes on each side: anarchism on the right (self explanatory, desire to self-govern instead of any government authority) and a form of decentralized socialism (the believe that individual actions forming a community is far more beneficial than government program) on the left.

I personally disagree with both those extremes. I only hold on to the belief that I am a free man and would be super-duper fantastic if I were left alone which is why I identify with libertarianism.

Would I be a law breaker however per your definition? Absolutely not. I am aware that my beliefs do not trump the laws and therefore I must begrudgingly conform. For example, I firmly believe taxation is theft but I pay my taxes. When I wish to change the system I vote for libertarian candidates but do not simply break the law.

And in terms of taking matters into my own hands would probably be true if anyone harmed my dogs.

So do I sound like Lori to you?

I was being sarcastic describing Lori as a Libertarian as someone else had called her that. Then I listed her characteristics as I have learned them from this site.

You don't sound like Lori to me.

I hate paying tax but don't believe it is theft. I just want to pay as little as possible but realise tax has to fund public services etc.

As someone once said, only two things certain in life, taxes and death. :-(

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Looks like it could be against the law though. Is it? LE have to do this lawfully with a search warrant or court would throw the case out IMO.

LE would absolutely need a warrant to "tap" or listen in on the phone but honestly I have no idea if they can ping phones at will to locate a POI.

I just looked up the requirements: "there are no licensing or training requirements for becoming a bounty hunter." But.. a bounty hunter can ping the phone without a warrant so wouldn't that indicate LE can ping without a warrant?

 

[squareandrabbet]

Agreed. Raised Lutheran, and the end of days is not something that comes up. In fact, my experience is the opposite - a focus not being afraid rather than being afraid. The talk of end of days is spooky to me and not at all familiar in my own religious background or as someone with friends of differing faiths - it just isn't a thing. It's a specific concern to groups, but definitely not a general thing.

jmo

What about the weekly Apostles' Creed? "He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead." Do they just ignore Revelation? From a quick Google search, I see what looks like a fair amount of Lutheran sermons on Revelation posted. And as previously said elsewhere on the thread(s), there's a difference between evangelical fundamentalists who think "Christ could be returning to Earth bodily any day", and those who think they are entitled to try to figure out when this might be and hang a date on it. Even the former consider the latter to be a bit nuts.

Sadly, he is probably used to this kind of behavior. You don't need to look any further back than Jan/Feb of last year to find a time when she left and at least some of her people didn't know where she'd gone. Just a guess that he might not have even really wanted to know where she was going and what she was up to...sort of "Yeah, whatevs, mom, take off, don't see your only grand baby, whatevs...." Maybe a sense of futility in even asking about her plans???

As the child of authoritarian parents, I assume that CR doesn't ask any questions because of Lori's history of negative responses.

He knows he won't get a good answer, other than "Because I said so!" He may even be in on the receiving end of a frequently-heard lecturing refrain for questioning/doubting/being called some type of variation on dumb, if he can't see through to her wacky Lori-centric point of view.

Too many dead people in both their lives to believe the kids are still among the living. It's one of the most bizarre stories in awhile, and incredibly tragic.

I think a lot of the problems we are seeing people having with the concept, is that they are reacting from their own sensible points of view. They themselves would balk at killing kids under any scenario; therefore there's no scenario that likewise "normal" people such as Chad and Lori (ahem) would find palatable.

LOL. I missed the Grey vs Gray debate, but I think it depends. Grey is a colour whereas gray is a color.

MOO

Close!

"Grey" is British/Canadian and "Gray" is American.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I'm wondering the same thing. I find the Sheriff's representation of the dispatcher a bit odd. When another police agency calls for information about an autopsy, I would think the dispatcher would not use the word "refused" if the coroner made the decision to not perform an autopsy. Sure, she probably doesn't have all the information, but the word choice seems deliberate. IMO

When I first heard the recording of the dispatcher talking to Gilbert LE I was shocked she would be so candid over the phone and was wondering if she would, at the very least, get chewed out pretty good for that. I hope they don't throw her under the bus. MOO

 

[utahobserver]

I'm wondering the same thing. I find the Sheriff's representation of the dispatcher a bit odd. When another police agency calls for information about an autopsy, I would think the dispatcher would not use the word "refused" if the coroner made the decision to not perform an autopsy. Sure, she probably doesn't have all the information, but the word choice seems deliberate. IMO

I would think the dispatcher got it right as she states: “the dispatcher tells him she was the one who took the original call.”

Daybell family reportedly 'refused' autopsy, according to police recordings | East Idaho News

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I'm not just referring to members of the LDS church, but there are some in my neighborhood that think this is a false drama created by the media. Technically, they haven't committed any major crimes that we are aware of and there are some that think they should be left alone.

Thank you for this statement... I wondered if there were people that would believe that-- like "fake news" stuff...... Chad's kids, people in Rexford... The Reporter on the Dr. Oz show this morning said that he "knew that people in Rexburg know more"....

 

[cocomod]

Interesting that the Sheriff is saying it wasn't the family requesting or turning down an autopsy, but a coroner decision. I wonder if that is true and if the Sheriff believes it.

Sheriff spinning the story. Listen to the dispatch call regarding the autopsy. Interesting to say the least.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Spinning the story. Whatever is best for the sheriff and coroner.

In our time line here up until revision 5 it was listed there was a 4 hour autopsy of TD by the Medical Examiner. I wonder if someone didn't spin the story weeks ago to get that into MSM so fewer questions would be asked?

P.S. thanks Gardener for compiling and updating the time line!

 

[grannygates]

if the coroner asks the family if they want an autopsy and the family deems it is unnecessary, the family would then be “refusing” the autopsy. i’m personally not alarmed by this terminology because the use of “refuse” does not mean that the medical staff are telling the family they have doubts, pressuring the family to seek answers and having the family push back against the coroners advice. it just means the coroner asked if they want one and they said no. moo

also, my canadian is showing, do autopsies cost money in the US?

 

[NickoD]

Made it to Dateline and with Keith no less! Airing this Friday.

'Dateline' to focus on missing Rexburg children case

 

[tresir2012]

So it seems this time that Lori and Chad have been in Hawai since 27th November till now. Is that correct? Initially it seems they left some time after Tammy's memorial and funeral (22nd/23rd October) to get married on 5th November. (Or to grieve as Chad described it). Do we know when they returned from the honeymoon? I think we saw Chad and Lori in the storage footage on the 24th Oct IIRC. If on their second visit to Hawaii, they have now been there since 27th Nov then that clears them of involvement in the death of AC.

 

[BigAl16]

Spinning the story. Whatever is best for the sheriff and coroner.

I don't see how that can be best for the corner and really not best for the sheriff either.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Hmm. Social Security money. Father killed. Good reason to apply for SS? Same for JJ. That may be why she cannot produce the kids. Or will not produce them. If they are dead, she loses the SS benefits. Money is money.
Follow the money.

However, wouldn't SS stop the money if there is knowledge of no kids. I thought SS could call in social services to check on fraud cases whenever they wanted. Clearly there would have been enough signal for SS to send LV a letter to prove something. In advance, I appreciate true knowledge on SS working with childrens' benefits....

 

[KonaHonu]

They tried to rent a room, then got the condo. So maybe they were trying to watch the funds.

What do you mean about no mainland banks in Hawaii? Like theres no Chase bank there? I'm confused.

Jmo

That's right - there are no mainland banks here. We have First Hawaiian Bank, Central Pacific Bank, Bank of Hawaii, American Savings Bank plus a few very small local banks and credit unions. Oahu has a few more. There is one Chase ATM in the state - in the Disney resort on Oahu. I've been to third world countries with more infrastructure/services than the neighbor islands in Hawaii.

Fedex overnight takes 2-3 days here.

People have land titles to addresses that the post offices says don't exist. There are parcels of land that literally no one owns. There is also a type of land right called "kuleana rights" that are essentially squatter's rights you have if your family has taken care of the land for a long period. (Mark Zuckerburg tried to buy a large chunk of land a couple of years ago on Kauai that contained a large number of kuleana parcels and when his lawyers tried to file to quiet the titles there was a huge uproar and he eventually dropped his claims.) The legal description on land titles usually ends with "more or less" and often starts with listing listing the Chief that the land originally belonged to, not some measurable survey monument.

It's really the wild west. I love it here and the natural beauty is unbeatable. But once you go beyond tourist things, it really is quite different from the rest of the US. Even the legal system is only superficially based on the same principals of the rest of the US. For example, a key principle of Hawaiian law is something called the mamalahoa rule, also known as the broken paddle rule. It basically says that ignorance of the law IS an excuse. So prosecution in Hawaii often requires proving more than just the defendant committed the crime, in many cases there has to be proof that they were aware of the value of what they stole for example. And punishments are usually very light compared to other states.

I'm not saying the differences are relevant here. I'm just saying that many of the assumptions that people make that Hawaii is part of the US so things must be the same are simply not true once you look beneath the surface, especially on the neighbor islands.