Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

[AmandaSkis]

I don't think they are in Europe. I'm just saying that the fact that no one knows where the kids are is not evidence of a crime. "Prestigous music school in Europe" is legally equivalent to "secure bunker in Montana." I'm not aware of any law that says kids must be made available to grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, or even other siblings.

As for the Ws custody petition, does Idaho have the jurisdiction to award custody? The only Idaho nexus we have is school enrollment for a couple of weeks. That may be enough but it is arguable.

Here’s the issue: IF Lori is collecting Social Security funds on behalf of either child, then yes, she should legally have to show the state that the said child is under her care.

If no Social Security is involved, then I feel like there’s a stronger case for ignoring court orders to produce the children.

And, as others here have said, in other cases where CPS seems to have dropped the ball on missing children who are later found to be deceased, people have screamed “why was no one looking for the kids??”

 

[Deerrun]

Why Dec 9th ?

I know it's a stretch but AC died dec 12th and I really think in my gut Lori had something to do with it. She could easily have been with AC when he married, (while Chad was vacationing with his family), and could have gone back to Arizona with him while waiting for Chad to finish up with family. Maybe Alex threatened her for money etc either way I believe Lori decided "to tie up loose ends" Maybe she tampered with something she knew he would eat or drink. Hopefully LE checked that out. Jmo

 

[Alpha Bravo]

When they served the search warrant on them and took her purse, could they have also taken their passports?

I think it would be malpractice to not have seized their passports.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I totally understand your POV. But like all criminal cases, motivation is key. For Lori, it seems to be money and some sort of deviant fan girl cred at being Chad’s wife. As phony as Chad appears to be, I believe he lived a somewhat nerdy small town sheltered life. It is my understanding that Springville is an idyllic version of small town America. They have a beautiful little museum, a strong local community. I think Chad never met anyone like Lori before. Pretty, fawning, determined- she validated him in a way that he probably never had been before. When given the opportunity to be tempted to stray from his wife and their quiet life - he took it, which is not unlike a lot of men or women looking for more excitement in life. But Chad was raised with a strict moral code and by his continuing to enter a house of worship confuses me. I cannot understand his rationalization. If harm has come to the children, he has abandoned every single principle he was ever taught and offended the God he is waiting for.

His rationalization is not our rationalization. He is walking to a different drum. One that only he hears. And she is the drummer.
Something snapped in his mind when they met, is the only observation that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, we don’t know what happened to change him. But I suspect it’s multiple things. Many here have opined with their ideas, and I bet it is most if not all of the above.
For whatever reasons, it is a sad state of affairs. With no end in sight. Locating the children is paramount. Dead or alive. Then continuing forward with prosecution of criminals. LDS probably backs the rest of us in saying criminals need to be brought to justice. I doubt LDS supports hiding in their temples and using its teachings as an excuse to commit crime. LDS members I know are truthful people. Willing to help at a moment’s notice.
Groups of doomsday preppers come in all varieties. I don’t feel that most preppers are fringe group members. Like anything else, the spectrum is from extreme to barely involved. And many preppers are not LDS. I’ve watched prepping documentaries. Read articles. Preppers are from all over, different walks of life. Young. Old. Single. City dwellers. Country people. Religion was not discussed. It’s more along the lines of being attacked by enemy nations as opposed to the second coming of Christ. With Chad, it just made it easier for him in the beginning to amass a following bc of LDS ties. We don’t know if his followers today are solely LDS or even a majority of LDS. For all we know, it’s mostly non-members.
None of that changes the fact that he and Lori are together. Her children are missing. There are too many dead bodies to count. And they are not helping LE.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Nancy Grace
‘5 KIDS & NO Money and HIS SISTER GETS EVERYTHING!’ ‘Cult’ mom Lori Vallow’s FURIOUS TEXT after discovering she loses MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE ON DEAD HUBBY [Exclusive]

If you scroll to the bottom of this page..You can listen to the Nancy Grace interview with Larry and Kay Woodcock. It came on while I was driving.
We know Lori and Chad are lukering around the internet ...Hey Hawaii Daybell's, Nancy Grace wants to talk to you! MOO

 

[Bray2020]

Nancy Grace
‘5 KIDS & NO Money and HIS SISTER GETS EVERYTHING!’ ‘Cult’ mom Lori Vallow’s FURIOUS TEXT after discovering she loses MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE ON DEAD HUBBY [Exclusive]

If you scroll to the bottom of this page..You can listen to the Nancy Grace interview with Larry and Kay Woodcock. It came on while I was driving.
We know Lori and Chad are lukering around the internet ...Hey Hawaii Daybell's, Nancy Grace wants to talk to you! MOO

Good info about the reasons why TD's autopsy may take so long. Also, BB mentions that he baptized Lori's son (has to be referring to Colby), which makes me wonder if there were times during their marriage that Charles was not able to go to the temple. That could have caused quite a rift between the two if that was the case. This also could explain the string of divorces for Lori. If her husbands suddenly became "unworthy" she may have moved quickly to get rid of them. After getting rid of a husband, she would move quick to marry a temple worthy member because without a temple worthy husband, she can't get to the highest degree of glory...IMO

 

[raysgirl1126]

Anyone following Faye Swetlik case live presser about to start

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=124679752249386

 

[Bray2020]

I totally understand your POV. But like all criminal cases, motivation is key. For Lori, it seems to be money and some sort of deviant fan girl cred at being Chad’s wife. As phony as Chad appears to be, I believe he lived a somewhat nerdy small town sheltered life. It is my understanding that Springville is an idyllic version of small town America. They have a beautiful little museum, a strong local community. I think Chad never met anyone like Lori before. Pretty, fawning, determined- she validated him in a way that he probably never had been before. When given the opportunity to be tempted to stray from his wife and their quiet life - he took it, which is not unlike a lot of men or women looking for more excitement in life. But Chad was raised with a strict moral code and by his continuing to enter a house of worship confuses me. I cannot understand his rationalization. If harm has come to the children, he has abandoned every single principle he was ever taught and offended the God he is waiting for.

Good points. Utah County in general is pretty idealistic(as long as you're part of the dominant culture), and I think gaining a following, even a small one, would have been quite an ego boost for Chad. Having a beautiful woman fixate on him probably made him feel great, and regardless of how religious someone is, we're all human.

The other thing to consider is that fact that most radicalized individuals, regardless of which faith they come out of, are devout. They generally know their faith better than most, and become radicalized because they don't understand why practices of the past have been abandoned, or they are reading the history of their faith literally. For example, there is an offshoot of the Catholic Church that occasionally slips a "recruiter" into mainstream Catholic churches to point followers to writings and ideals from the past that they feel should never have been abandoned or changed. Sometimes those ideas are obscure and they were published by a random person, but other ideas come from Catholic leaders. This is a technique that was also used in the LDS Church with "Remnant" believers and the United Apostolic Brethren. Generally, radicalized individuals become that way because they are well versed on their faith, and they want to return to what they view as a more pure and correct way to worship.

 

[tresir2012]

So Sorry! I should have added MOO. I base my opinion on her Life Academy log crossed with his reports.

I looked at that and you are dead right with the dates and his reports. It may be a good idea to record that data in the timeline. The Jason Lum posts are probably all in the media thread anyway.

 

[squareandrabbet]

And nobody at this "prestigious music academy in Europe" has seen the international news about the missing children? Does this fictional academy prevent all of their students from ALL communication with the outside world for over 4 months? Do they keep the children over ALL holidays? Do they never communicate with the parent, who is flaunting the authorities just because she can? Do they also never take any payments from the parent for the schooling? Or it means Lori flew the children to the school on some private jet and paid in cash for a year upfront and somehow the FBI can find no record of any of those actions? But the FBI knows where Lori and Chad have been in Hawaii and how long they have been there and that the children were never with them in Hawaii? And of course Lori hasn't needed to send any money to them for incidentals for over 4 months so far? And wherever they are is warm and they don't need their winter coats and other winter clothing left in storage or I guess she left them with enough money to buy new? She did not even send any Christmas gifts for JJ and Tylee either? Does this mean these music students are never playing their music for others as well? Never sending any videos of their rehearsals to Lori or their family and friends? Are the children known by new names to the other students? Are you saying they are using false names for 4 months and haven't been recognized yet? Because most music schools/private schools I'm aware of have concerts and the students travel and interact with hundreds of other people daily and they go home for holiday breaks. By now some student would have texted their mom and said, "Hey those missing kids are here in school with me and Tylee is my dormmate." None of that has happened, apparently.

Sorry, but your scenario is not realistic to me in the type of world we live in today. Most wealthy parents who can send their children to a prestigious private school overseas would have had the child on Facetime with the police, and playing their latest concerto for them, in less than a minute after LE arrived for the welfare check back in November. Then the police would have had to go away and only come back if they had evidence in the deaths of Charles and Tammy. But, oh wait, Lori had Tylee's phone in her possession and was sending texts pretending to be Tylee so she couldn't Facetime her, could she? I guess that music school doesn't allow any phones or any way for parents to check on their children?

Instead of clearing this up, Lori and Chad lied multiple times about the children's location and welfare (telling some people Tylee is dead and JJ doen't exist). Even if initially Lori had an attitude of "you can't make me... nah nah boo boo" towards the cops then once she consulted with a lawyer I would think the lawyer would tell her what could happen if she didn't produce the kids and would advise her to have the kids Facetime the police or produce evidence of where she sent the kids to school. In the beginning police said they would accept a Facetime video of the children saying they are safe. But now we are way past that. This is not just the small-town Idaho police investigating. There are at least four states with LE in multiple cities/multiple counties plus the FBI involved. There are search warrants being issued left and right, meaning the police have probable cause to obtain these, especially to get JJ and Tylee's medical records. The investigation is now a "conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder" investigation according to those warrants. The legal actions taken in Idaho have begun the process of legally taking custody of the children away from Lori, even if the children cannot be found. The actions are sealed so we can't know what if anything has happened but long answer short- yes I believe her parental rights can eventually be severed for this "stunt" and that will eventually lead to cutting off SS benefits. But I also don't believe this is merely a stunt and losing her parental rights and some SS payments are the least of Lori's worries.

MOO.

Yes, I'm with you.

Plus, if my parenting were being severely called into question, and I'd arranged a situation for my kids that was better than a situation than that which they had left behind, I'd be champing at the bit to boast about the cushy situation I'd arranged for them.

Chad and Lori clearly don't think an underground bunker is "a better situation" for anything or anyone, considering that, well, they're not in one.

Plus, whatever they think is "better" for Lori's children, they clearly must think would be "better" for Chad's children or grandchildren if there are any of the latter; correct?

snipped by me

What gives is most likely that he hasn't been paid. Lawyers don't stand by clients for free.

Yeah, also if an attorney is ghosted by his clients, what is s/he supposed to do, really? Even if said clients have (or haven't) paid their bills? I would assume the clients have to approve instructions for handling situations; and this would seem to be a big old situation by anyone's definition.

 

[Onsdag]

His rationalization is not our rationalization. He is walking to a different drum. One that only he hears. And she is the drummer.
Something snapped in his mind when they met, is the only observation that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, we don’t know what happened to change him. But I suspect it’s multiple things. Many here have opined with their ideas, and I bet it is most if not all of the above.

RSBM.

I agree that he's following after a different drumbeat. I would even go so far as to say they both are acting like they have "become a law unto [themselves]," which is troubling. However, at least in the case of Chad, there is evidence that this was starting to happen before he met (or at least became intimate with) Lori, as evidenced by his train dream dated March 22, 2018. I suspect other causes, which cannot be named, had an influence in this. MOO.

 

[Christ is Truth]

New Daybell sighting from Justin Lum Fox 10 (@jlumfox10) | Twitter

Shopping at Costco...not a care in the world...

View attachment 231819

She looks very tired. She’s putting on a “I couldn’t care less” attitude, but it’s taking a toll. JMO

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Definitely kudos to her and everybody else.

I was going by this, from the timeline (post #5): 26 Oct 2019 (Approx) – Tammy was training for a 5k run that was held a few days after her death (Daily Mail).

Neither you nor @carbuff are wrong in this. Yes, she wasn't in marathon shape, but she was moving the direction of wanting to be more active and fit. She wasn't a participant but a volunteer in the Sept 14, 2019 Rexburg Rescue Run (see attached ETA: They've removed the facebook gallery of photos... but I have them and will post), but then wanted to participate in the Oct 26 Run for A Refugee 5K. I think this shows that she wanted to be more fit and active.

She also had children, grandchildren, seemed happy, active in her church, and not a single person (that I know of) has said Tammy ever exhibited suicidal tendencies. So I think chances of Tammy's committing suicide are slim to none (zero).

Yes, she had two grandchildren. One was very, very, VERY close to her. Not to mention a grandchild that was yet to be born she was excited to get to see. She was in the happiest job she could have imagined for herself. She loved books and children. She was a librarian at the elementary school! Suicide? No. Just. No. She had so much fulfillment in her life, the only possibility is if things were not as happy behind closed doors (which there just were no signs of), but even then, the escape to work and family would have been a relief.

1 - We clearly know each other.
2 - Even as my best friend for a number of years, I can’t see any other option but your last one. The strange things he said to me and I watched him do at the funeral and burial, and his immediate behavior the following day at and after the memorial service, and then everything else he did that has since come out just don’t make any logical connection to your first two possibilities. It is heartbreaking, and I hope I am wrong.

I hope so too.

I think he has always wanted to be revered as an authority of some sort. I can’t imagine he would want to give that up. But I’m also not sure he could get back to how things were anyway. He and Lori are now partners “in crime” or whatever you call what they are doing or have done. I would have thought the one thing he would miss would be his own children, but right now I just don’t know.

He knows that they are safe and caring for themselves. I don't think he would feel like he needs to hurry back for them.

THIS vehicle that Lori was driving while at the storage unit, does anyone have a link that explains where it is now?
I was pretty sure I had read earlier in this case that it was found by LE but I am unable to find anything now. It's driving me nuts lol thank you so much!

Lori's Blue 2019 Nissan Rogue. Photo of it was shown to me by LE in Rexburg. No idea if it was impounded or not. I tend to think not. Therefore, no idea where it could be now. If she went to SLC airport with CD on Nov 27, then check SLC. If she drove to Vegas with AC, then on to AZ, check there. If she stashed it somewhere, then your guess is as good as mine.

Ok so those dates seem to roughly tie in with these pretty important events in the timeline, so it looks to me like Lori is checking in to maybe see what is being said about her and Jj at that school. The intervals are roughly 2.25 months, 3 weeks, 1.5 weeks, 2.5 weeks, 3.5 weeks, 1.3 weeks, 4 days. If it was for educational reasons, then I think it would be more regular and not have the long gap at the beginning. The story broke on the 20th December I believe.

7th Sep 2019 no JJ at school and letter
21st Nov " 2 days after first LE visit
9th Dec " in Hawaii for 2nd time
20th Dec " Kids are first posted missing
8th Jan 2020 KW PC $20k reward offer
31st Jan " CR youtube
4th Feb " CR interview 2nd Feb

But here's the thing. Didn't they take her phone on Jan 26th? Who's device is she using to continue to check the site on Jan 31 and Feb4?

 

[BigAl16]

He may have been at court for all we know right? How would we know as the procedures are sealed?

At court when? The only actual court proceeding I'm aware of happening is the one for custody with Kay and Larry yesterday(?) and it appeared that members of the press were hanging around enough to see the police officiers who attended. Unless he lawyer was snuck in a back way so he couldn't be seen and they covered the windows in the door into the courtroom so they wouldn't notice him, then I'm thinking he wasn't there.

I suppose he could have wandered in to H&W or the judges office on the day that was the deadline for Lori to show up with the kids, but if so, unless he had the kids there would have been no point or reason and if he did have the kids and did that I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it and some things that have happened since would have probably taken a different direction.

 

[tresir2012]

I think it would be malpractice to not have seized their passports.

What is the justification that would have convinced the judge? I know they got the phone(s) but is seizing a passport normal? I mean you can get another phone but getting another passport must be tricky IMO.

ETA. What if they didn't have them with them in Hawaii for example?

 

[OGDiva]

Nancy Grace
‘5 KIDS & NO Money and HIS SISTER GETS EVERYTHING!’ ‘Cult’ mom Lori Vallow’s FURIOUS TEXT after discovering she loses MILLION DOLLAR LIFE INSURANCE ON DEAD HUBBY [Exclusive]

If you scroll to the bottom of this page..You can listen to the Nancy Grace interview with Larry and Kay Woodcock. It came on while I was driving.
We know Lori and Chad are lukering around the internet ...Hey Hawaii Daybell's, Nancy Grace wants to talk to you! MOO

Whether you love or hate Nancy Grace, I would never want her coming after me, She is ruthless. Oh, wait- just what Chad and Lori might need right about now!

 

[tresir2012]

At court when? The only actual court proceeding I'm aware of happening is the one for custody with Kay and Larry yesterday(?) and it appeared that members of the press were hanging around enough to see the police officiers who attended. Unless he lawyer was snuck in a back way so he couldn't be seen and they covered the windows in the door into the courtroom so they wouldn't notice him, then I'm thinking he wasn't there.

I suppose he could have wandered in to H&W or the judges office on the day that was the deadline for Lori to show up with the kids, but if so, unless he had the kids there would have been no point or reason and if he did have the kids and did that I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it and some things that have happened since would have probably taken a different direction.

Yes, that is the only one and the one I am on about. Tuesday I think it was. They aren't allowed to report if he was there or not though right? Something must have been going on for two hours. And yes, I wouldn't put it past him to slip out the back. Isn't his office right near the court IIRC? TBH he had to be there or he would be in contempt too as an officer of the court I think.

 

[Friday Fan]

Here’s the issue: IF Lori is collecting Social Security funds on behalf of either child, then yes, she should legally have to show the state that the said child is under her care.

If no Social Security is involved, then I feel like there’s a stronger case for ignoring court orders to produce the children.

And, as others here have said, in other cases where CPS seems to have dropped the ball on missing children who are later found to be deceased, people have screamed “why was no one looking for the kids??”

Social Security is a federal issue and I don't think the state would get involved in it. MOO. It's a bit like income tax stuff. If JJ is no longer alive, Lori will have to pay back any benefits received based on the date that they feel JJ was no longer eligible for survivors benefits.

 

[BigAl16]

Yes, that is the only one and the one I am on about. Tuesday I think it was. They aren't allowed to report if he was there or not though right? Something must have been going on for two hours. And yes, I wouldn't put it past him to slip out the back. Isn't his office right near the court IIRC? TBH he had to be there or he would be in contempt too as an officer of the court I think.

He'd have to have been there if the court told him to be. I'm not sure if that would be standard in this situation or not. I'd say that if they didn't tell Chad and Lori to be there that their lawyer wouldn't be ordered to. As far as we know they weren't served with anything demanding they be there yesterday.

 

[tresir2012]

Neither you nor @carbuff are wrong in this. Yes, she wasn't in marathon shape, but she was moving the direction of wanting to be more active and fit. She wasn't a participant but a volunteer in the Sept 14, 2019 Rexburg Rescue Run (see attached), but then wanted to participate in the Oct 26 Run for A Refugee 5K. I think this shows that she wanted to be more fit and active.


Yes, she had two grandchildren. One was very, very, VERY close to her. Not to mention a grandchild that was yet to be born she was excited to get to see. She was in the happiest job she could have imagined for herself. She loved books and children. She was a librarian at the elementary school! Suicide? No. Just. No. She had so much fulfillment in her life, the only possibility is if things were not as happy behind closed doors (which there just were no signs of), but even then, the escape to work and family would have been a relief.


I hope so too.

He knows that they are safe and caring for themselves. I don't think he would feel like he needs to hurry back for them.


Lori's Blue 2019 Nissan Rogue. Photo of it was shown to me by LE in Rexburg. No idea if it was impounded or not. I tend to think not. Therefore, no idea where it could be now. If she went to SLC airport with CD on Nov 27, then check SLC. If she drove to Vegas with AC, then on to AZ, check there. If she stashed it somewhere, then your guess is as good as mine.


But here's the thing. Didn't they take her phone on Jan 26th? Who's device is she using to continue to check the site on Jan 31 and Feb4?

Re last para. JJ's iPad?