ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951

[Peter Brendt]

I wish we could get the details of that assault in Oct of '51. I wonder if there are any similarities, although it was obviously not a murder. But I wonder if he was stopped before getting that far?

Hard to say without knowing the details. But then, especially in the beginning of serial killer careers, there is still some degree of lack of determination in some cases. Means, they sometimes don't kill all they assault sexually because they are not entirely used with the thought of killing people, the feeling, even strong and comfortable to them in the situation, doesn't sit too well at the start.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

The coming two weeks are still a mess here. Diane is on Giles de Rais and Ridgway and I have the monthly website update in work and try to keep at least some deadlines. After that, we can maybe do a little more. Sorry!

Peter

Cheers, don't worry. I'm due to have major work done on the house starting the end of next week so I'm in the same boat really.

Just keep plodding for now.

 

[Robin Hood]

Think I'm on a roll, here's the men......http://history.idaho.gov/old-idaho-penitentiary-inmates-catalog

 

[Peter Brendt]

Think I'm on a roll, here's the men......http://history.idaho.gov/old-idaho-penitentiary-inmates-catalog

Now I got a bit lost. They are all too old to be kids of Walter and none of the Cunninghams or Nelsons fits the bill. Or is there something, I don't see?

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

I was checking through for any previous crimes leading up to 1951, ran through all the main players names, step dad, grandfather etc (from Lonnie's side) and anybody else I reconise from my 'browsing'
it's a good reference for anybody looking for info.

 

[Robin Hood]

Just shaking the tree Peter, you never know what might fall out.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Just shaking the tree Peter, you never know what might fall out.

We would be looking for parental male homosexual abuse after the age of 12 or parental female heterosexual abuse at the age of ab. 6 ...

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

We would be looking for parental male homosexual abuse after the age of 12 or parental female heterosexual abuse at the age of ab. 6 ...

Peter

I'm on it.

 

[Robin Hood]

Ok, I have found Walter Cunningham listed in the Idaho Penitentiary records for 1947-1975
Inmate number 8401 AR 42/1110

I'm puzzled now if he is a Nelson or a Cunningham, maybe the records of the time weren't that particular, could be if he wasn't on the radar for Lonnie's death then that played a part, I don't know.

Then I thought maybe he was a Cunningham and Elsie was the Nelson, but I still couldn't find anything that matched up.

I found something else that doesn't mean much but it's curious.
Lonnie was born on 1st Nov '38 so the 1940 census would show him at home but he isn't listed. Census gives Gran and grandfather, Alexander their son and Elna J Spence their daughter- Lonnie's mother, Mary Spence another daughter and Ralph Thompson a lodger
So where was Lonnie ? couldn't find his birth on LDS either.
Mary their daughter was only 4 years older than Lonnie.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Ok, I have found Walter Cunningham listed in the Idaho Penitentiary records for 1947-1975
Inmate number 8401 AR 42/1110

:woohoo: Great job! And he was out in Sept '51?

I'm puzzled now if he is a Nelson or a Cunningham, maybe the records of the time weren't that particular, could be if he wasn't on the radar for Lonnie's death then that played a part, I don't know.

Nelson could have been an alias. Wasn't his wife convicted for something like check forgery or so? I doubt, she used her real name for that.

Then I thought maybe he was a Cunningham and Elsie was the Nelson, but I still couldn't find anything that matched up.

Again, what if he was a Cunningham, she something else using the name Nelson as an alias?

I found something else that doesn't mean much but it's curious.
Lonnie was born on 1st Nov '38 so the 1940 census would show him at home but he isn't listed. Census gives Gran and grandfather, Alexander their son and Elna J Spence their daughter- Lonnie's mother, Mary Spence another daughter and Ralph Thompson a lodger
So where was Lonnie ? couldn't find his birth on LDS either.
Mary their daughter was only 4 years older than Lonnie.

That could mean, Lonnie was born in a home for unwed mothers. And when in 1940 the census taker knocked, they just didn't mention the baby. Back then being an unwed mother brought even more stigma with it than being gay. And I don't consider rural Idaho in the 1940s especially progressive in those aspects. Probably, the whole census thing back in the days wasn't that anonymized as it is today. So there was a certain risk, that all you wrote in that forms was discussed at the next beer table because the census taker would have been from the very same community. Kind of very local.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Don't get excited mate, it only gives his inmate number on a list of 196 pages of folk that were in prison during that time- luckily he was on page 15. Kline will need it if he looks up the record from the history dept, the Nat archives is amazingly over the road from the Penitentary.
I still think he was out because he committed the crime on the 15 year old boy less than 4 weeks after Lonnie died. But we shall see.

----------------------
I can't find any marriage for a Walter Cunningham and an Elsie anything and no trace of all those kids. That is odd.


--------------------------
Yeah, thats mostly likely the scenario.

 

[Robin Hood]

Walter Cunningham was, IMO on the radar for Lonnie. Something Kline noted a while back.

Read Here http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=5869,4108586&dq=lonnie+weippe&hl=en

and this from LDS. Too much of a co-incidence I think

Walter Cunningham
United States Census, 1940
birth: 1906 Washington
residence: 1940 Tract 19,​ Portland,​ Portland City Election Precinct 184,​ Multnomah,​ Oregon,​ United States
spouse: Ruby Cunningham
children: Robert Cunningham,​ Richard Cunningham

Off to look for more kids.

Edited to add I believe the kids that were abandoned belonged to their own two boys, the grand kids.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Walter Cunningham was, IMO on the radar for Lonnie. Something Kline noted a while back.

Read Here http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=5869,4108586&dq=lonnie+weippe&hl=en

and this from LDS. Too much of a co-incidence I think

Walter Cunningham
United States Census, 1940
birth: 1906 Washington
residence: 1940 Tract 19,​ Portland,​ Portland City Election Precinct 184,​ Multnomah,​ Oregon,​ United States
spouse: Ruby Cunningham
children: Robert Cunningham,​ Richard Cunningham

Off to look for more kids.

Edited to add I believe the kids that were abandoned belonged to their own two boys, the grand kids.

So Sherif Frederiksen maybe had some hunch against Cunningham, but he had nothing tangible. We would need to place Cunningham at the fair. Did he have a vehicle at the time, what was his job at the time?

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

So Sherif Frederiksen maybe had some hunch against Cunningham, but he had nothing tangible. We would need to place Cunningham at the fair. Did he have a vehicle at the time, what was his job at the time?

Peter

When he was arrested for the 15 year old his occupation was given as a carpenter. My guess is he would need a vehicle to carry tools.

Maybe he was at the fair helping put up stalls etc.

If the trip to Portland was for Cunningham maybe the Sherif noticed a similar modus operandi in what happened with his attack on the boy.
Also it's possible Cunningham told another prisoner something and it was relayed to the Sherif's dept.
Frederiksen could have been hoping in the passage of time loyalties had changed, maybe Ruby had requested a divorce or even Cunningham had died.
Whatever it was IMO something during 1965 had changed, I don't think a trip like that was routine.

 

[Peter Brendt]

When he was arrested for the 15 year old his occupation was given as a carpenter. My guess is he would need a vehicle to carry tools.

Maybe he was at the fair helping put up stalls etc.

If the trip to Portland was for Cunningham maybe the Sherif noticed a similar modus operandi in what happened with his attack on the boy.
Also it's possible Cunningham told another prisoner something and it was relayed to the Sherif's dept.
Frederiksen could have been hoping in the passage of time loyalties had changed, maybe Ruby had requested a divorce or even Cunningham had died.
Whatever it was IMO something during 1965 had changed, I don't think a trip like that was routine.

Certainly it was not routine. But then, the old sheriff has probably made an entry in the case file either for the case of the 15 year old or in the file for Lonnie. Which means, we need once more LE in the boat.
By what I gather, at least the victimology between Lonnie and this 15 year old appears very similar. But I couldn't find photos of the 15 year old.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Certainly it was not routine. But then, the old sheriff has probably made an entry in the case file either for the case of the 15 year old or in the file for Lonnie. Which means, we need once more LE in the boat.
By what I gather, at least the victimology between Lonnie and this 15 year old appears very similar. But I couldn't find photos of the 15 year old.

Peter

My guess is he wont be named due to the shame.

After thinking about the 'carpenter' side of Cunningham, I'm drawn to the poster who told us that she had heard that Lonnie stayed back to help with the taking down of the fair. Now, I've not seen anything about that and IIRC neither had Kline, but there maybe something in it.

 

[Robin Hood]

BTW I'm not saying that Peter's account of Lonnie's last movements have changed, I'm saying it's a possibility that Lonnie could have run into the men who put the fair up and take it down AFTER he went looking for a burger and a lift home.

 

[kline]

My guess is he wont be named due to the shame.

After thinking about the 'carpenter' side of Cunningham, I'm drawn to the poster who told us that she had heard that Lonnie stayed back to help with the taking down of the fair. Now, I've not seen anything about that and IIRC neither had Kline, but there maybe something in it.

Yeah thats something that is frustrating the "Lonnie Helped Tear Down the Fair" business.
I discounted it because A:He was at the end of the bridge at 12:30 and I know from my own experience that it is pretty much an all night job and B:12 year old Lonnie would have been way too small and young to be of much use.
But.....
What if someone at the Carnival (say for example Cunningham) offered him such a job then made an unnatural advance as soon as he had Lonnie alone and Lonnie took off upset and went to the bridge and was picked up by the teenagers?
The paper archives have been enormously helpful but there could be all kinds of aspects to the investigation that although they are common knowledge to 'insiders' of the case may never have made the newspapers.
Which puts us at a disadvantage because it makes it difficult to discern between what could be real inside info and B.S. that has attached itself to the urban legend after 6 decades.
There could be many things that could change our whole thinking on the case but we are just unaware.
Ive got to be able to establish some kind of contact with LE with someone who at least knows about the case and doesnt have the knee jerk reaction of circling the wagons.
I understand the mindset having worked in corrections.:'Why should I put my butt on the line and possibly get in trouble with my superiors just to satisfy someones unhealthy curiousity about some 60 year old gory case that ive never even heard of where the killer is obviously dead....let the kid rest in peace....besides it will just end up with Law Enforcement being criticized in some book or on the internet and I will be held responsible."
Its real easy to develop that kind of CYA attitude.
I need to find a way around it though.

 

[Peter Brendt]

BTW I'm not saying that Peter's account of Lonnie's last movements have changed, I'm saying it's a possibility that Lonnie could have run into the men who put the fair up and take it down AFTER he went looking for a burger and a lift home.

Still, it's possible. My reconstruction is based on what we know and can logically assume, but not on a crystal ball. So Question is, did Lonnie do what he intended to do earlier (helping with the fair) or got he sidetracked? He also said, he intended to go to the movies. If he did so, then looked for a little paid work at the fair but didn't get anything, and went to a burger place afterwards, it wouldn't have been merely some minutes. So not even the time, he ate that burger would change by a significant amount of time.
But there are no witness accounts about seeing him at the fair (also none at the movies, but police asked on the fair but not there). My problem with a fair-guy as offender is the choice of the kill- and dump site. It's some miles to drive from the fair and as I said before, it's no place just out of convenience. How would a fair guy know this place?

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Yeah thats something that is frustrating the "Lonnie Helped Tear Down the Fair" business.
I discounted it because A:He was at the end of the bridge at 12:30 and I know from my own experience that it is pretty much an all night job and B:12 year old Lonnie would have been way too small and young to be of much use.
But.....
What if someone at the Carnival (say for example Cunningham) offered him such a job then made an unnatural advance as soon as he had Lonnie alone and Lonnie took off upset and went to the bridge and was picked up by the teenagers?
The paper archives have been enormously helpful but there could be all kinds of aspects to the investigation that although they are common knowledge to 'insiders' of the case may never have made the newspapers.
Which puts us at a disadvantage because it makes it difficult to discern between what could be real inside info and B.S. that has attached itself to the urban legend after 6 decades.
There could be many things that could change our whole thinking on the case but we are just unaware.
Ive got to be able to establish some kind of contact with LE with someone who at least knows about the case and doesnt have the knee jerk reaction of circling the wagons.
I understand the mindset having worked in corrections.:'Why should I put my butt on the line and possibly get in trouble with my superiors just to satisfy someones unhealthy curiousity about some 60 year old gory case that ive never even heard of where the killer is obviously dead....let the kid rest in peace....besides it will just end up with Law Enforcement being criticized in some book or on the internet and I will be held responsible."
Its real easy to develop that kind of CYA attitude.
I need to find a way around it though.

Now I get it! Not enough coffee, I guess. Cunningham was local enough to could have known the place. And looking for work at the fair doesn't mean Lonnie got work but he could have come in contact. Or, given as near places were to each other, Cunningham, working at the fair, got himself a coffee break where Lonnie had his burger ... or my thoughts circle too much about coffee.

About contact to LE: It has sometimes advantages to be a published writer, even most books are not in English. One can hint to work on a book and then "... it's the decision of you, my dear LE officer to look like a knee jerk or a good upright sheriff in this book. And now lets talk ..." And seriously, there is always a certain danger, I write a book or use the story as part in one, so feel free to refer to me and our (Diane and mine) website, if you want to apply a little pressure with that.

Peter