Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[BatataPoha]

Do you mean he would've practiced his entry into the house 2-3 times? I'm assuming the killer may have watched the family but never entered the house. Possible that he did, of course, but the TMPD investigation would seem to rule out.

I dunno about any investigation that rules out previous break in.

My point is based on pure logic. Its hard for me to fathom that our relatively new and inexperienced killer suddenly acquired two solids skills at one. One of breaking and entering without leaving evidence and other of relatively solid planning for his kills.

He also smh knows the two houses that look quite close from the outside have no internal connections, he also knows smh not to look into the garage.

Granted he could have gained all of this info by observing the Miyazawas for multiple days as well.


When I said he practiced his break ins, I meant maybe break ins in other houses. I don’t think this is a very atypical Japanese house to begin with. Not to mention that you can glean off some info about the layout of the inside of the bathroom from the outside, maybe by going on the perch or some tree climbing.

So the climb could very well have been planned ahead. To make the task more easier.

For Mikio not to wonder, particularly if we accept the premise that he was sensitive to disturbances around his home,

I dunno if Mikio has any way to see the source of the noises without leaving the house or going up to that window. I don’t see a window at his level from where he could have checked that noise out easily.

somehow leave zero fibres, hairs etc

I don’t see this actor leaving a lot of stuff behind, and he doesn’t even have a hat, and presumably has less upper body strength than the killer.

 

[BatataPoha]

Not that difficult would've been Rei's balcony. Ultimately, if the TMPD are still unsure as to ingress method, then we could talk this in circles all day.

Rei’s balcony has other set of challenges though.

1) It would require the Miyazawas to have that window open, as per routine or by total accident.

2) The killer would have to be aware that the open balcony might be a possibility.

3) He goes inside, does his kills and then closes the balcony window?

Because if he had left the balcony open, then I think the TMPD might have reported it as open. Not to mention the fact that it would be very obvious that an open balcony would rather be the entry point than an exit point, as it little sense to go out by the balcony and not the front door.

4) Then he does the shenanigans in the bathroom, and leaves either via the bathroom window or the front door.

All of this need to work out for the balcony to be the mode of entry. Definitely possible which is why I think the dispute for the investigators.

 

[Cryptic]

It was said that Mikio did have some run-ins with the skaters from the skate park across the road, but this graffiti to me shows disrespect towards the Miyazawas as it’s been done on and to their property. I should say, I don’t really know if the family did own the strip of land beside their house or not but either way it was done very close to their front door.

Just out of curiosity....

How much of a social faux pas is excess noise in Japan? And likewise, in general terms, what constitutes excess noise? And... how often do Japanese people confront others over violations of social norms or law?

For example, in my very urban US city, it takes a relatively large amount of noise to be considered excess. Likewise, there is a social norm that public areas are truly public. A homeowner attempting to impose on others what can, or cannot be done in a public area is not going to go well.

But.... my family lived once in urban Belgium. Shortly after settling in, my father fires up a "petite" lawn mower on a tranquil Sunday around noon. The smell of cut grass fills the air.... Then, a normally passive Belgian neighbor goes livid, enters the yard and starts yelling.

Fortunately, my mother spoke fully fluent French and the area was French speaking. It turned out that excess noise on Sunday was very broadly defined in urban areas. Using power lawn lawn equipment on Sunday was totally forbidden by law and by social norm. She later found out that enforcement by yelling type confrontations was, well, not unheard of.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Rei’s balcony has other set of challenges though.

1) It would require the Miyazawas to have that window open, as per routine or by total accident.

Same goes for the bathroom window. I personally discount the front door. There are no other options.

2) The killer would have to be aware that the open balcony might be a possibility.

If we accept the premise he had been watching them, I don't see that as a challenge per se. Moreover, we know that he paced beneath the bathroom window. Why couldn't he simply have tried. He tries the bathroom window first, then goes to Rei's. Either/both is possible.

3) He goes inside, does his kills and then closes the balcony window?

Because if he had left the balcony open, then I think the TMPD might have reported it as open. Not to mention the fact that it would be very obvious that an open balcony would rather be the entry point than an exit point, as it little sense to go out by the balcony and not the front door.

As with the front door, we don't know if it was open or closed when LE arrives. But at any rate, what stops him from closing the balcony window/door?

4) Then he does the shenanigans in the bathroom, and leaves either via the bathroom window or the front door.

I don't see this as a particularly complex set of circumstances but as you say, there is a reason why the TMPD are still unsure as to the entry point, despite all their experiments. What I will say is that the front door had no blood on it / beneath it / around it. So, the killer figured out a way to clean his shoes right next to Mikio's body to walk the paces through that hall to the door. We also know that the TMPD were dusting the family car for prints. So clearly, it's beyond debate whether or not they considered him using that car almost certainly to climb on or touch in some fashion. That the TMPD have not said anything about the balcony doesn't mean much, considering their limited communication across 24 years.

All of this need to work out for the balcony to be the mode of entry. Definitely possible which is why I think the dispute for the investigators.

Absolutely.

I dunno about any investigation that rules out previous break in.

My point is based on pure logic. Its hard for me to fathom that our relatively new and inexperienced killer suddenly acquired two solids skills at one. One of breaking and entering without leaving evidence and other of relatively solid planning for his kills.

My point is that is that there is no complaint of a break-in prior to the murders. Either here, or in the area. Is it possible he was entering the Miyazawa house without leaving any trace? Yes, sure. What are we basing that on--that it's hard to fathom that he would try to climb through a window without previous break-in experience? I don't know, at some point it would have to be the first time.

He also smh knows the two houses that look quite close from the outside have no internal connections,

We don't actually know that, technically-speaking. But yes, you can see this as a self-evident truth when you are in the location.

I dunno if Mikio has any way to see the source of the noises without leaving the house or going up to that window. I don’t see a window at his level from where he could have checked that noise out easily.

He can simply walk outside and see for himself. He's done this before according to reports. From the front door to the rear of the house is a matter of a few paces. Or, he could've gone upstairs and looked out the window.

I don’t see this actor leaving a lot of stuff behind, and he doesn’t even have a hat, and presumably has less upper body strength than the killer.

Well, you would be unlikely to catch fibres being left with the naked eye from that video. But my own bucket hat would off fall my head when upside down. And we know the killer did leave his hairs behind throughout the house. But, if we accept the premise that the bathroom window is the most logical entry point, then what would be so puzzling for the TMPD?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Just out of curiosity....

How much of a social faux pas is excess noise in Japan? And likewise, in general terms, what constitutes excess noise? And... how often do Japanese people confront others over violations of social norms or law?

It's a good question. This answer is always going to be anecdotal but; confrontation in small forms is totally normal. Passive aggressive or otherwise. Having the trash you deposited incorrectly left back on your doorstep is a common experience for newbies starting their lives in Japan, for example. Far more likely your misbehaviour is simply reported to the building manager etc. But it's a rare occasion to see an angry neighbour effing and jeffing on the doorstep because you kept your music too loud. That said, it's 127 million people and it's not a monolith. There is a famous case of a woman who went to jail for being a spectacularly bad neighbour (even songs were written about it).

For example, in my very urban US city, it takes a relatively large amount of noise to be considered excess.

I would say that in Japan this is going to be lower. Way lower. I think there is an accepted decibel amount by law.

Likewise, there is a social norm that public areas are truly public. A homeowner attempting to impose on others what can, or cannot be done in a public area- much less in another privately owned property might not go well.

I think this is a big difference. The example was raised by the skaters I interviewed. One related the story of Mikio coming out and telling them that he had kids and could they keep it down (he said Mikio was eminently reasonable and apologetic for asking this). The skaters immediately apologised and said they were leaving anyhow. (This group were all eliminated by the TMPD btw). I've seen an old man ask for quiet in a museum and a class-load of children fall quiet. Again, this is all anecdotal. But I think asking someone to keep the noise down is less likely to be met with a "f*ck you, pal" then -say- in Downtown Los Angeles.

But.... my family lived once in urban Belgium. Shortly after settling in, my father fires up a small lawn mower on a tranquil Sunday around noon. The smell of cut grass fills the air.... Then, a normally passive Belgian neighbor goes livid, enters the yard and starts yelling.

Fortunately, my mother spoke fluent French and the area was French speaking. It turned out that excess noise on Sunday was very broadly defined. Using power lawn lawn equipment on Sunday was totally forbidden by law and by social norm. She later found out that enforcement by yelling type confrontations was, well, not unheard of.

I don't think there's ever going to be a definitively answer here, those users that live in Japan can chime in. I can only say that the reports of Mikio going ballistic are unconfirmed. And, even if he did, the idea that a man killed them all as punishment for such an outburst has its problems. JMO.