ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951

[kline]

Just from an initial go through of the articles youve already settled several things Ausgirl.
He was clothed when found.
From the photo of the murder scene he was not found right by the river it appears that patch of land between the HWY and the river that was originally pointed out to me is indeed correct.
And obviously this was a sex crime and they knew it from the start which to me does not point at the relatives.
It also indicates a very violent very organized killer.
I thought He was pressing his luck merely dropping Lonnies body there....but he took him blind folded out of his vehicle,marched him over the edge of the road and slit his throat there??!!? God Lord.
What kind of Monster was this?
There was a slaughter house here in Orofino back then I wonder how many of those guys were looked at?
Of course many people had experience slaughtering livestock around here back then too.
And that business about Lonnie's fingers....was he locked in the guys trunk? Or maybe bound to a post while he was being assaulted ?
I knew this was bad but those clippings really brought it home.
My visualization of thsi case and its context just went from fuzzy black and white to High Definition thanks to the photos.
And there are so many last names I recognize from around here...my pool of folks to talk to just went from a mud puddle to Loch Ness.
Im going to spend all day going over these with a fine comb and re-thinking nearly everything.
Thank you again Ausgirl!!

 

[Ausgirl]

Kline, thanks really belongs to the people who scan old papers into an online format, and those who keep their papers free for all to view.

But you're welcome. I'm very glad to help!

Speaking of slaughterhouse workers - Del Marner was one, of some sort. It's mentioned in one of those links - he moved to Weippe with Elna in '51 and worked with meat in some capacity. That's why, coupled with the timing of their move and Lonnie's mother obviously not wanting much to do with him, as well as that boning knife found at the Masonic Lodge site, I pegged the stepdad for a possible suspect. I'm not convinced he's good for it, for the same reasons as you. But I'm keeping an open mind.

That trucker's one I'm still eyeballing, however.

My question of the moment is: Why blindfold Lonnie? Not likely he wouldn't have seen someone who approached him on the road. Was it part of the sadism of the crime - an exhausted, scared child blindfolded to further terrify? Or was it a symbol of execution? Perhaps the perp took him somewhere 'secret' and left him blindfolded in case he escaped (again?). Maybe the killer didn't want to feel a personal 'connection' to Lonnie, didn't want to see Lonnie's eyes as he suffered (his throat was cut from behind, as well). It bugs the heck out me, that handkerchief.

And yes! His fingers! That's a profound bit of detail - lots there to think about, for sure!

 

[kline]

So many different things are going through my head right now.
and so many things to address.(Which is a welcome change to so little info!)
Yes it would have been very dark and very deserted along that stretch of road.
How Lonnie came into the killers hands puzzles me.
That time of night Greer would be dark and deserted then as now its a small cluster of buildings and a grain elevator.
There was how ever an old hotel on the right(Greer used to be a stop for steam boats in the late 19th and early 20th century,before there was a bridge you had to cross the river on a barge.)
This hotel has been in and out of operation for years in fact I lived in Greer.
When I returned to this area in '96...a tavern was in operation on the ground floor the top floor was being used for residential apartments,I lived right across the street.Its been closed for the last eight years or so.
I have to find out if it was open in the early 50's.
You see ive always leaned toward the theory that it was a local who murdered Lonnie because Greer was such a deserted off the beaten path for someone passing through but the odds of someone encountering him as they returned up the grade to Weippe or Pierce from the fair in Orofino where excellent.(Obviously thats the premise Lonnie was operating on too.)
But I dont know...the sheer organized savagery of Lonnie's death...its worthy of Jack the Ripper or Dean Corll,a serial killer far along on his killing arc.
I guess a local doing that isnt impossible as a twisted one off... a sicko farm boy who buggered sheep before killing them lets say, and always wondered what it would be like to do it to a person.
But now im completely unsure.
And the blindfold as you illustrated... so many things could be read into that.
Why blindfold him?
He obviously saw his killers face when he encountered him.
Was Lonnie taken somewhere to be assaulted where the Killer wanted no possibilty of Lonnie being able to find the place again,maybe he hadnt decided to kill him yet .
Or did he know Lonnie and couldnt bear to see his eyes while he raped and destroyed him?
Or maybe the thought of a little boy bound and blind folded was just his personal kink that did it for him?
And yeah,that truckdrivers story just seems off,of course the fact that his story is true might be why its so untidy.Now that im sure of the general area it IS about the only place between Greer and Orofino you could get off the road and take a dump with any hope of privacy.
Maybe as you said he decided once he calmed down he'd better go clean himself before talking to the police.
But the time he gave for leaving the fair and heading up the hill...damn how did he miss Lonnie? His whole story is hinky.
Of course the fact he looks like Ted Bundy's dad doesnt inspire any trust in me.
Oh and where Lonnie was found is about four miles from the Greer Bridge quite a walk along a dark narrow highway.
And no I doubt there were many hitchhikers along that stretch.
Even today ive driven it a thousands of times and never seen one.
I sure wish I could take some of you guys and drive you from Orofino to Greer and up the grade to Weippe.
Have you walk through the Park where the Fair was and let you see and feel the logistics and physicality of this place and see what impressions you come up with.
As far as his last meal obviously he was eating from the food booths at the Fair...you would have been able to find the same junk in my stomach when I was at Lumberjack Days last August im sure.
And the Grandmother....as you rightly pointed out Weippe is a long way away..even today with improved roads its an hour drive.
If a twelve year old cant hitch a ride with people she doesnt know "he'd have to walk"!!? In the Dark?
Anyway enough random thoughts.I need to go over this some more.

 

[scriptgirl]

let me just reiterate again, I don't think this is family member. But the fact that there was a slaughterhouse-were there many non locals who didn't work in that slaughter house? There was a case Australia-Ausgirl might know what I am talking about-where in the 70s or 60s, a girl went missing in a small town. she was later found dead and raped-the town had a slaughter house in it and one of the workers or someone in that town killed her.

 

[kline]

let me just reiterate again, I don't think this is family member. But the fact that there was a slaughterhouse-were there many non locals who didn't work in that slaughter house? There was a case Australia-Ausgirl might know what I am talking about-where in the 70s or 60s, a girl went missing in a small town. she was later found dead and raped-the town had a slaughter house in it and one of the workers or someone in that town killed her.

I would assume most of the workers would have been local.
The slaughter house is no longer there,it was down a steep windy road and located on the river where refuse and scraps could just be dumped in.The former site is about thirty seconds away from where I sit typing this.
I dont believe it was family either..as you said the pure sexualized savagery of the killing I believe rules it out.
I do have a hard time beleiveing as was also put that a transitory predatory killer just happened upon him in that spot but I also have a hard time picturing someone planning to kill him following him....I mean they would have no way of knowing he was going to be dropped off.
Anyone up in Weippe im sure could have found a much less risk free method of getting him alone and doing him in up there if it was very premeditated....
Thats why I always felt someone returning up the hill after the fair happened upon him.Someone with a connection to the area.

 

[scriptgirl]

It could have been a carny who had worked that area before or who had family there-or who had seen Lonnie there before. Was that Lonnie's first night at the carnival?

 

[liz b.]

When I first read about how Lonnie had been murdered,the first thing I thought was that he had been butchered like an animal. Interesting that the killer wiped the knife blade on some leaves at the scene... So, the knife found at the Masonic building site,that was not connected ?

Either the killer had the knife on him or in his vehicle,or he took Lonnie someplace,located the knife,and then killed him ?

I'm thinking it was someone in the community.A one time thrill kill.Someone experienced in butchering animals. Be interesting to know if anyone became very publicy religious in the time following this murder.If anyone suddenly began wearing conspicous religious medals, or if any male suddely decided to shave his head.... MOO

 

[scriptgirl]

I don't think this was a one time thing. This was too vicious-this person did this before, count on it.

 

[Ausgirl]

It's not even just the viciousness, to me - but the 'ritualised' look of how he was found. The blindfold could have served a practical purpose, but then perhaps as Kline suggests it was also the killer's 'thing'.

I don't think it was the killer's first time, either. Kline, that nearby motel place -- I'm so interested in finding out whether it was open in '51. And even it wasn't. nothing says the killer couldn't have been staying there. It was fair week - and carnies have to sleep somewhere. If it was open, however, there might still be guest records somewhere. How far from the murder site was it, exactly?

Lonnie's stepdad really doesn't count as 'family', imo, since he only met Lonnie that same year... and remember, he was a slaughterman too, for a while after he moved to town. Not that family members proper have never committed rape/murder against their own. But that's just me -- suspect everyone, until they are proven a non-suspect.

I can't find info on whether the boning knife was ever deemed to be related to the murder. I wonder where it is now? DNA tests have solved/helped older cases than this one - maybe it could be tested against some other evidence?

Kline, I'd love to walk around that area! Sadly air fares are prohibitive from over here, so I'll have to rely on your eyes!

Lol @ Ted Bundy's dad. I'm still eyeballing that trucker, though. I can see a killer revisiting the scene -- they do it all the time, for thrills, or to move the body, or get rid of telling evidence -- and then needing explanation for why his truck was parked there, if he was seen. But it's the 'stomach cramps' story and his forwarding the info that he passed by that area at exactly 12.45 am (after having been at the fair - that late? before work? whys he out on Sunday morning, 5am again?) that trips my wires, mostly.

SG -- any more details of that case in Aus?

 

[liz b.]

Just was googling info on animal slaughter techniques. I found out that in some countries, e.g. Egypt, it is not uncommon for animals to be bound and blindfolded just before they are slaughtered. Slaughterers will even sometimes sodomize the animals to get them to move more quickly to the slaughtering area. Throats are slit from behind to help the butcher avoid being soaked with blood.

Techniques like these are not used so much here anymore, but , I wonder about 1951,in a small abbatoir in a remote part of Idaho ? Did slaughterers blindfold the animals at that abbatoir ?

This was someone used to butchering animals for a living...MOO I'm sure LE wondered about this too.MOO

 

[Ausgirl]

Throats are slit from behind to help the butcher avoid being soaked with blood.

Good call, Liz! That's a really good case for why the killer chose that method, right there. It suggests to me that he probably had reason to worry about being seen all bloody that late at night - was he married, conscious even in the act of murder that he had nowhere to adequately 'tidy up'? A slaughterman has reason for heavily bloodstained clothes, at least moreso than a schoolteacher or carny. He may equally have learned that technique from killing people - interesting angle for the blindfold, though (..and possibly the best excuse ever for being caught having sex with a sheep).

 

[kline]

Just was googling info on animal slaughter techniques. I found out that in some countries, e.g. Egypt, it is not uncommon for animals to be bound and blindfolded just before they are slaughtered. Slaughterers will even sometimes sodomize the animals to get them to move more quickly to the slaughtering area. Throats are slit from behind to help the butcher avoid being soaked with blood.

Techniques like these are not used so much here anymore, but , I wonder about 1951,in a small abbatoir in a remote part of Idaho ? Did slaughterers blindfold the animals at that abbatoir ?

This was someone used to butchering animals for a living...MOO I'm sure LE wondered about this too.MOO

From the very first time I heard of this case ive associated how Lonnie was killed with a livestock killing .
I feel that even more strongly now.
Authorities on the case are pretty much in agreement Jack The Ripper used that same throat cutting from behind method when dispatching his victims prior to mutilation to avoid being splattered with blood.

 

[kline]

It could have been a carny who had worked that area before or who had family there-or who had seen Lonnie there before. Was that Lonnie's first night at the carnival?

I beleive it was his first night...Saturday is usually the big night to go and yes the killer could have been visiting over Fair weekend lots of times out of town relatives will show up to visit and take in the Lumberjack competition and Fair.

 

[kline]

It's not even just the viciousness, to me - but the 'ritualised' look of how he was found. The blindfold could have served a practical purpose, but then perhaps as Kline suggests it was also the killer's 'thing'.

I don't think it was the killer's first time, either. Kline, that nearby motel place -- I'm so interested in finding out whether it was open in '51. And even it wasn't. nothing says the killer couldn't have been staying there. It was fair week - and carnies have to sleep somewhere. If it was open, however, there might still be guest records somewhere. How far from the murder site was it, exactly?

Lonnie's stepdad really doesn't count as 'family', imo, since he only met Lonnie that same year... and remember, he was a slaughterman too, for a while after he moved to town. Not that family members proper have never committed rape/murder against their own. But that's just me -- suspect everyone, until they are proven a non-suspect.

I can't find info on whether the boning knife was ever deemed to be related to the murder. I wonder where it is now? DNA tests have solved/helped older cases than this one - maybe it could be tested against some other evidence?

Kline, I'd love to walk around that area! Sadly air fares are prohibitive from over here, so I'll have to rely on your eyes!

Lol @ Ted Bundy's dad. I'm still eyeballing that trucker, though. I can see a killer revisiting the scene -- they do it all the time, for thrills, or to move the body, or get rid of telling evidence -- and then needing explanation for why his truck was parked there, if he was seen. But it's the 'stomach cramps' story and his forwarding the info that he passed by that area at exactly 12.45 am (after having been at the fair - that late? before work? whys he out on Sunday morning, 5am again?) that trips my wires, mostly.

SG -- any more details of that case in Aus?

Yeah historicly Sunday is not a day most loggers work.
Very strange and yeah I dont think the stepdad is off the hook either,
That Hotel in Greer is a big two story 19th century structure it looks like it belongs on the set of a Western..with the second floor veranda all the way around it.
I talked to my brother in Montana on the phone and it was his opinion that Hotel would definitly been operating in 1951 and he says he's sure there was more then one bar in Greer at that time.....I have to confirm this wish I could get my hands on a contemporary phone book.
The Hotel is the last structure on the Right in Greer right before the grain elevator just as you head up the Greer grade.

 

[scriptgirl]

Kline, I think you need to talk to a local historian and check out the local library. the library might have a copy of that phonebook and a historian could maybe tell you more about the hotel and the carnival

 

[kline]

Kline, I think you need to talk to a local historian and check out the local library. the library might have a copy of that phonebook and a historian could maybe tell you more about the hotel and the carnival

We have a small historical museum here too,I'll be talking to them as well.

 

[Ausgirl]

Looking forward to that info, Kline, if you get lucky enough to find some.

I wonder what the trucker was driving the night Lonnie was killed? Surely not his truck. Think there's any chance of a visit to the cops, see if they'll answer a few questions?

The Keddie case is STILL officially 'unsolved' (....) but the PCSO did share some files with Josh Hancock, who made the documentary about the murders. Mind you, they shared more with him than with the victims' families.. and some of that info came via 'anonymous emails'. Clearly -somebody- at that office knew it was not in the interests of the case to leave it languishing in a filing cabinet. Perhaps 60 years is long enough for the police in charge of Lonnie's case to release a few details?

 

[kline]

Looking forward to that info, Kline, if you get lucky enough to find some.

I wonder what the trucker was driving the night Lonnie was killed? Surely not his truck. Think there's any chance of a visit to the cops, see if they'll answer a few questions?

The Keddie case is STILL officially 'unsolved' (....) but the PCSO did share some files with Josh Hancock, who made the documentary about the murders. Mind you, they shared more with him than with the victims' families.. and some of that info came via 'anonymous emails'. Clearly -somebody- at that office knew it was not in the interests of the case to leave it languishing in a filing cabinet. Perhaps 60 years is long enough for the police in charge of Lonnie's case to release a few details?

Yeah absolutely. I realize any unsolved is still 'open' but after 60 years....When a case gets to be that old there arent going to be any new developments unless somebody actively goes after them.
With the contemporary material you uncovered it sure has given me a clearer picture of what happened of course there are still a thousand unanswered questions.
Yes I would find it hard to believe the truckdriver would have been hauling logs with his truck on a Sunday morning.

 

[katydid23]

My parents have a log cabin out in the wilderness area in Northern California. It is surrounded by logging roads. We have seen loggers driving on the weekends. It seems that they are often working on their own time. Sometimes they do overtime on weekends because they get paid by the product and not always on a regular timed salary. So some times they will drive up those roads on Sundays looking for fallen logs etc that they can wrangle on their own. Some of them own their own trucks as well.

 

[kline]

My parents have a log cabin out in the wilderness area in Northern California. It is surrounded by logging roads. We have seen loggers driving on the weekends. It seems that they are often working on their own time. Sometimes they do overtime on weekends because they get paid by the product and not always on a regular timed salary. So some times they will drive up those roads on Sundays looking for fallen logs etc that they can wrangle on their own. Some of them own their own trucks as well.

Yeah its true there would have been alot more smaller one and two man outfits back then.
Small family mills and independent drivers.
Its hard telling.
Im sure the investigation material undoubtably has alot more info on this driver.
Apparently they were confident in dismissing him a a suspect.
The more ive thought about it his story is just awkward and sketch enough to be true...youd certainly think he could have came up with a better story if he was lying.