I believe that Lonnie's family members who were at the fair stated that they never saw him after his grandmother left him at the fair. I would like to find out where the movie theater was, in relation to the fairgrounds ? Since he mentioned going to the movies to his grandmother. She left him at around 6 ;30ish... seems reasonable that he might have tried to make his way to the movie theater to see the movie ? MOO
ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951
- Thread starter kline
- Start date
No they didnt run photos of Lonnie's body just what I assume is a school photo.(Very period looking shot of a smiling young boy with short dark hair wearing a striped T-Shirt and Bib Overalls.)
The paper did run a photo (several)of the demolished car my aunts died in three years after Lonnie's murder in the rocks by the river just a couple of miles down stream from where Lonnie was found.
Lonnies grandmother is the last person quoted in the News article as having seen him at the fair but there may have been others who were interviewed by investigators...id be surprised if there wasnt.
Yet another reason we need to see the investigative documents if they still exist.Ill be making another inquiry right after thanksgiving.
Getting a look at the crime scene photos might help clear up the staging question.( a very valid question considering the risk the Killer took leaving the body where he did.)
There was the county jail but it was just a small town jail for drunks and such, back then if you were serving time you went to The Yard in Boise.
Though now there is a Prison in Orofino,I worked there for nearly seven years as a correctional officer.
scriptgirl
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So no local parolees, huh?
scriptgirl
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Kline, am I wrong to think that there wasn't a lot of outrage or calls for justice in the community about this? It seems like no one cared.
I have reason to believe Lonnie was born out of wedlock (shocking stuff, for the era) - His last name's "Jones", which was his mother's maiden name. She was 17 at the time of Lonnie's birth.
Lonnie's grandma married a Jones and had several children before she was a Spence, including Elna Jones, who later would become "Mrs. Marner", living in Weippe with husband Marner and an older boy of the same name, who was probably her stepson. But Lonnie was left with his grandparents? Why was he not living with his mother, who was a stone's throw away? Poor kid. Might explain the huge sum of money he was given for the fair, though - was she compensating for his mother's neglect, by spoiling him?
I bring this up, because if Lonnie was illegitimate and his mother was settled in the area, perhaps the family kept things quieter than they might've for a legitimate child? I know it's a horrid thing to suggest, but this was the 40's and 50's when divorce was shocking, let alone unwed births. People went to great lengths to hide that sort of thing, back then.
Lonnie's grandma married a Jones and had several children before she was a Spence, including Elna Jones, who later would become "Mrs. Marner", living in Weippe with husband Marner and an older boy of the same name, who was probably her stepson. But Lonnie was left with his grandparents? Why was he not living with his mother, who was a stone's throw away? Poor kid. Might explain the huge sum of money he was given for the fair, though - was she compensating for his mother's neglect, by spoiling him?
I bring this up, because if Lonnie was illegitimate and his mother was settled in the area, perhaps the family kept things quieter than they might've for a legitimate child? I know it's a horrid thing to suggest, but this was the 40's and 50's when divorce was shocking, let alone unwed births. People went to great lengths to hide that sort of thing, back then.
katydid23
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I agree with all of the above. And it makes me so sad for Lonnie. I also wonder if the rumors about family involvement are true. This is way out there, but WHAT IF there was something really incriminating/shameful about his birth. Maybe his mother was the victim of sexual abuse within the family, which was actually common back in the 'good old days.' Maybe someone in the family was angry and acted it out that night.
Well, yes - sad to say, it's possible. My other thought was that maybe his mother and/or the new husband didn't want any 'baggage'. I hate thinking this stuff of people, I really do. 
But all angles ought to be looked at when a child is murdered, imo, no matter how it might be hurtful to the adults around them.
And Lonnie doesn't seem particularly 'wanted' by his mother, which is surely worth looking into.
But all angles ought to be looked at when a child is murdered, imo, no matter how it might be hurtful to the adults around them. And Lonnie doesn't seem particularly 'wanted' by his mother, which is surely worth looking into.
The step dad's name was Delvin Richard Marner.
But there's another Delvin Marner in Weippe, middle initial E, whose wife Rosie sought a divorce "on the grounds of cruelty" in 1963 -- a near relative? Rosie and this Delvin entered a common-law marriage in 1959, and she was heavily pregnant when she took him to court for "cruelty". Pretty desperate thing for a woman with two kids and one on the way to do:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=4052,3653795&dq=delvin+marner&hl=en
From the Weippe cemetery records:
Marner, Del Richard, b. Oct 04, 1918, d. Jun 01, 1972, s/w (stone with) Elna Jane, SW sec
Marner, Elna Jane, b. April 08, 1922, d. Jun 09, 1985, sw/ Del Richard, SW Sec
Marner, Delvin Jr. "Butch", b. Sept 07, 1962, d. Mar 10 1983, SE Sec
How many Delvin Marners -were- there in Weippe?!
I found this article from 1953 where a 'Delvin Marner' returns to Gifford after visiting his father "Dell" in Weippe (he also had his appendix out in 1951).
Could this be the same "Delvin E" mentioned in the "cruelty" case above? Delvin E. is mentioned as having a father in Weippe in this article from 1960.
I -think- Delvin E. could be the Delvin Marner who was something of a local high school football star in 1955. If it's the same guy, he graduated in 1957, was in a common law marriage with Rosie in 1959, joined the army (4th Armored Division's 24th Engineer Battalion) by 1960, and was in court for "cruelty" in 1963.
A "Mr. Mrs. Del Marner" from Gifford had a son in 1939, making him 16 in 1955, the right age to graduate two years later.
Is "Butch" who died in 1983, age 20, Delvin E.'s son? Maybe Delvin R's grandson?
Who was this Mrs. Marner in Gifford?
Is Lonnie's middle name "O'Dell" in any way linked to "Dell" Marner?
But there's another Delvin Marner in Weippe, middle initial E, whose wife Rosie sought a divorce "on the grounds of cruelty" in 1963 -- a near relative? Rosie and this Delvin entered a common-law marriage in 1959, and she was heavily pregnant when she took him to court for "cruelty". Pretty desperate thing for a woman with two kids and one on the way to do:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=4052,3653795&dq=delvin+marner&hl=en
From the Weippe cemetery records:
Marner, Del Richard, b. Oct 04, 1918, d. Jun 01, 1972, s/w (stone with) Elna Jane, SW sec
Marner, Elna Jane, b. April 08, 1922, d. Jun 09, 1985, sw/ Del Richard, SW Sec
Marner, Delvin Jr. "Butch", b. Sept 07, 1962, d. Mar 10 1983, SE Sec
How many Delvin Marners -were- there in Weippe?!
I found this article from 1953 where a 'Delvin Marner' returns to Gifford after visiting his father "Dell" in Weippe (he also had his appendix out in 1951).
Could this be the same "Delvin E" mentioned in the "cruelty" case above? Delvin E. is mentioned as having a father in Weippe in this article from 1960.
I -think- Delvin E. could be the Delvin Marner who was something of a local high school football star in 1955. If it's the same guy, he graduated in 1957, was in a common law marriage with Rosie in 1959, joined the army (4th Armored Division's 24th Engineer Battalion) by 1960, and was in court for "cruelty" in 1963.
A "Mr. Mrs. Del Marner" from Gifford had a son in 1939, making him 16 in 1955, the right age to graduate two years later.
Is "Butch" who died in 1983, age 20, Delvin E.'s son? Maybe Delvin R's grandson?
Who was this Mrs. Marner in Gifford?
Is Lonnie's middle name "O'Dell" in any way linked to "Dell" Marner?
Okayyy - seems Lonnie's stepdad Delvin R. ran for Sheriff of Clearwater County in 1960. And was still heavily involved in local politics in 1962.
It actually seems a LOT of effort went to toward finding Lonnie, and the hunt for his killer.
Some information about Lonnie's stepdad - and apparently Elna and he only moved to Weippe in... 1951.
Some more news clips about Lonnie:
Sept 28, '51: Missing Weippe Boy Discovered
- Lonnie had lived "all his life" with his grandparents
- Details of where he found, and his condition
Sept 28, '51: Sheriff Seeks to Reconstruct Boy's Actions
Sept 30, '51: Police Wide Hunt For Slayer of Boy
- Discusses inquest findings, some POI's, interview with Orrin Woods
- Search described as "biggest manhunt in Idaho history"
- Family details, time of last sightings given
Sept 30, '51: Officers Inspect Slaying Site
Oct 4, '51: Boy's Murder Clues Sifted
Oct 4, '51: Asked To Post Murder Reward
- Bloody knife found in unfinished foundations of Grangeville Masonic Lodge
Oct 6, '51: Boning Knife May Be Clew
Oct 7, '51: Boy's Murder Suspects Eyed
Dec 30, '51: Long Ride Home
Oct 30, 1952: New Clue Unearthed
- Brief Article
Nov 27, '52: Lonnie Jones Clue Fizzles
- More details about above Oct 30 article
Sept 23, '52: Mystery Still Shrouds Savage Lonnie Jones Murder
-Lonnie's last meal described
Set 22, 1959: Orofino Slaying Remains Unresolved
- brief article, mentions Candy Rogers
Sept 23, 1965: Unsolved Murder File Stays Open
It actually seems a LOT of effort went to toward finding Lonnie, and the hunt for his killer.
Some information about Lonnie's stepdad - and apparently Elna and he only moved to Weippe in... 1951.
Some more news clips about Lonnie:
Sept 28, '51: Missing Weippe Boy Discovered
- Lonnie had lived "all his life" with his grandparents
- Details of where he found, and his condition
Sept 28, '51: Sheriff Seeks to Reconstruct Boy's Actions
Sept 30, '51: Police Wide Hunt For Slayer of Boy
- Discusses inquest findings, some POI's, interview with Orrin Woods
- Search described as "biggest manhunt in Idaho history"
- Family details, time of last sightings given
Sept 30, '51: Officers Inspect Slaying Site
Oct 4, '51: Boy's Murder Clues Sifted
Oct 4, '51: Asked To Post Murder Reward
- Bloody knife found in unfinished foundations of Grangeville Masonic Lodge
Oct 6, '51: Boning Knife May Be Clew
Oct 7, '51: Boy's Murder Suspects Eyed
Dec 30, '51: Long Ride Home
Oct 30, 1952: New Clue Unearthed
- Brief Article
Nov 27, '52: Lonnie Jones Clue Fizzles
- More details about above Oct 30 article
Sept 23, '52: Mystery Still Shrouds Savage Lonnie Jones Murder
-Lonnie's last meal described
Set 22, 1959: Orofino Slaying Remains Unresolved
- brief article, mentions Candy Rogers
Sept 23, 1965: Unsolved Murder File Stays Open
We must put this in the context of a logging area. Many logging roads (called trails here) would be considered "rutted" and yet are being used by 10-wheeler logging trucks... who are mostly to blame for the deep ruts. Just making this remark so as to not exclude any possibilities based on the size of a vehicle.
scriptgirl
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Ausgirl, amazing! I KNEW there was something off with Lonnie's homelife and family. However even though his background was very scandalous for that time, my gut is that it was not a family member who did this.
Kline, sorry for spamming up this thread. I promise to hush a bit after this.
But after reading over those articles, my head is full of scenarios. My thoughts on possibilities at this point are as follows:
- The killer was prepared.
He had a "razor-sharp" weapon with him. It's too much, imo, to believe that Lonnie's murder was not premeditated and the killer just happened to be carrying a razor-sharp knife with him. Lonnie's killer was looking for a victim, and found one.
- The road would have been lonely that time of night.
Since the killer appears to have been on the prowl for a victim, could he not have picked a more certain time and place to find one? Unless there were a LOT of kids hitch-hiking that road that late at night on a regular basis -- which there might have been, while the fair was town -- the odds of a killer on the hunt meeting up with Lonnie by chance seem quite remote.
- The killer could have been another hitch hiker.
Sure, he could have had a car. But he could have also been a hitch hiker. One of the articles quotes police as saying they believe Lonnie was killed not far at all (a matter of feet) from where he was found -- in the opposite direction from where he would want to be going, if I've got it right. The short distance from the bridge to the place where he was killed is walking distance - he could have been persuaded to accompany somebody, with the promise of a ride home once they got to Orofino, or something.
- The killer could have driven Lonnie in the direction of Orofino.
And simply ignored any objection from Lonnie that they were 'going the wrong way'. Or grew worried about Lonnie's objections and pulled over to 'deal with it'.
I'm wondering if the ground on the roadsides there would have been soft enough to show tyre tracks? I can see a trucker pulling over and leaving his truck in plain sight - but a killer in a car would probably not want his vehicle seen.
Unless the killer was the trucker who found Lonnie. He claims he found the body by sheer chance as he pulled over to take care of some 'stomach cramps' -- which I guess explains why he couldn't wait for home, or a truck stop bathroom or something. So, with all the wide back-woods of Idaho to take an emergency poop in, this trucker pulls over (in something of a hurry, I'd assume) and walks directly to THAT particular clump of bushes where Lonnie's body is. That's some pretty steep odds, there.
I wonder where and when he took care of those emergency-stop-inducing 'stomach cramps' after finding Lonnie's body and then looking around town for cop, making the report, etc. Maybe the shock cured 'em.
Or maybe it was his skilled-with-a-boning-knife step-dad, scared Lonnie was going to cramp his style. The recently married couple moved to Weippe that same year that Lonnie died. Lonnie's mother had left her son to be raised by his grandparents, for whatever reason. Maybe Lonnie was making a fuss about wanting to live with his mother.
Anyhow. That's the contents of my head after reading. I'll shush now (but oops, cross-posted with scriptgirl! I dunno, SG. A man divorces his wife and moves town with his brand new missus (and a brother I can't find records on in tow), and finds his wife's unwanted kid demanding attention that neither wants to give him. Sadly, it is a possibility - until it isn't. There's a couple cans of worms there I can't ignore just yet).
It occurs to me that Marner's son and Lonnie were roughly the same age in 1951.
I promise to hush a bit after this. But after reading over those articles, my head is full of scenarios. My thoughts on possibilities at this point are as follows:
- The killer was prepared.
He had a "razor-sharp" weapon with him. It's too much, imo, to believe that Lonnie's murder was not premeditated and the killer just happened to be carrying a razor-sharp knife with him. Lonnie's killer was looking for a victim, and found one.
- The road would have been lonely that time of night.
Since the killer appears to have been on the prowl for a victim, could he not have picked a more certain time and place to find one? Unless there were a LOT of kids hitch-hiking that road that late at night on a regular basis -- which there might have been, while the fair was town -- the odds of a killer on the hunt meeting up with Lonnie by chance seem quite remote.
- The killer could have been another hitch hiker.
Sure, he could have had a car. But he could have also been a hitch hiker. One of the articles quotes police as saying they believe Lonnie was killed not far at all (a matter of feet) from where he was found -- in the opposite direction from where he would want to be going, if I've got it right. The short distance from the bridge to the place where he was killed is walking distance - he could have been persuaded to accompany somebody, with the promise of a ride home once they got to Orofino, or something.
- The killer could have driven Lonnie in the direction of Orofino.
And simply ignored any objection from Lonnie that they were 'going the wrong way'. Or grew worried about Lonnie's objections and pulled over to 'deal with it'.
I'm wondering if the ground on the roadsides there would have been soft enough to show tyre tracks? I can see a trucker pulling over and leaving his truck in plain sight - but a killer in a car would probably not want his vehicle seen.
Unless the killer was the trucker who found Lonnie. He claims he found the body by sheer chance as he pulled over to take care of some 'stomach cramps' -- which I guess explains why he couldn't wait for home, or a truck stop bathroom or something. So, with all the wide back-woods of Idaho to take an emergency poop in, this trucker pulls over (in something of a hurry, I'd assume) and walks directly to THAT particular clump of bushes where Lonnie's body is. That's some pretty steep odds, there.
I wonder where and when he took care of those emergency-stop-inducing 'stomach cramps' after finding Lonnie's body and then looking around town for cop, making the report, etc. Maybe the shock cured 'em.
Or maybe it was his skilled-with-a-boning-knife step-dad, scared Lonnie was going to cramp his style. The recently married couple moved to Weippe that same year that Lonnie died. Lonnie's mother had left her son to be raised by his grandparents, for whatever reason. Maybe Lonnie was making a fuss about wanting to live with his mother.
Anyhow. That's the contents of my head after reading. I'll shush now (but oops, cross-posted with scriptgirl! I dunno, SG. A man divorces his wife and moves town with his brand new missus (and a brother I can't find records on in tow), and finds his wife's unwanted kid demanding attention that neither wants to give him. Sadly, it is a possibility - until it isn't. There's a couple cans of worms there I can't ignore just yet).
It occurs to me that Marner's son and Lonnie were roughly the same age in 1951.
momtolil
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This may have been stated already, but if Gautney is the killer how was he able to move the body around or for that matter get to the location where Lonnie was thought to have disapeared without an automobile?
Does anyone think he got help? Or was he known to own a car throghout the years?
Sorry if this was already covered.
scriptgirl
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I don't buy that Lonnie raised a fuss re wanting to live with his mom. Most likely he barely knew her and there is the chance that his grandma didn't want that to happen. No, I think this was a stranger that killed that boy-as in not a blood relative. It could have been a member of the commnity
katydid23
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I could see the motive the mother and new stepfather might have to rid themselves of baggage. But I don't buy the way the murder was handled as the way they would do it. Too sexual and grotesque imo.
I think it is more likely an experienced serial killer. I think it was a transient monster passing through with the carnival.
I think it is more likely an experienced serial killer. I think it was a transient monster passing through with the carnival.
momtolil
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Wow Ausgirl. You are an amazing researcher! Thank you so much for all of the information. I was always baffled that there wasn't much coverage out there on Lonnie’s murder. It seemed as if things were swept under the rug and never fully investigated. Now from all of your links I see that there was an investigation and that he had family that was interested probably cared.
The first article "Sept 28, '51: Missing Weippe Boy Discovered" was extremely interesting. Seeing photos really made the whole case come to life. It was nice to finally see a photo of Lonnie.
What a cute little boy
Ausgirl,
Once again, amazing articles...TY. Well, it seems that Lonnie went to the fair with both of his grandparents.And his grandmother actually gave him 1 dollar, according to the articles.Not $5.00...
And Lonnie ate a burger,and drank a soda.So, presumably someone sold him his dinner...
Wonder if Lonnie ran into any classmates at that fair ? Did he hang out with them maybe ? If so, they might have seen something. wonder if they were all interviewed ?
Once again, amazing articles...TY. Well, it seems that Lonnie went to the fair with both of his grandparents.And his grandmother actually gave him 1 dollar, according to the articles.Not $5.00...
And Lonnie ate a burger,and drank a soda.So, presumably someone sold him his dinner...
Wonder if Lonnie ran into any classmates at that fair ? Did he hang out with them maybe ? If so, they might have seen something. wonder if they were all interviewed ?
Cheers, all. I'd have a LOT more reportage if it wasn't for this hideous pay-per-view trend a lot of papers have taken up (charging five times the price of the original damn paper...). :|
I was glad too that there was such a huge effort put in for Lonnie - I have never heard of police closing a school early to enlist the student body in a search. What a great idea. Clearly, this Sheriff was using all resources (why aren't there more like him?).
Good points re the family! Tho that trucker's not off my radar yet. He puts himself on that stretch of road at 12.45am, Sunday. His account of the discovery seems a little 'off' to me. I'd wanna see him cleared by DNA at this point.
Gautney was a lifestyle drifter at age 65, who knows if he drove age 29. But he does seem a too-thin thread. Unless he was seen on the road that night or was definitely seen at that fair, I do think he's too far a stretch -- but worth considering, regarding MO, etc.
Lonnie'd already spent $5 - must've had a great time at the fair! And was given an extra $1 for his movie by his generous gran. Lonnie's step-dad said he last saw Lonnie at a cafe in Orofino in the afternoon - was that maybe where he ate his burger? So weird that nobody saw him later.
What if he'd been in the company of the killer for a few hours and managed to get away - and the creep was out looking for him?
I was glad too that there was such a huge effort put in for Lonnie - I have never heard of police closing a school early to enlist the student body in a search. What a great idea. Clearly, this Sheriff was using all resources (why aren't there more like him?).
Good points re the family! Tho that trucker's not off my radar yet. He puts himself on that stretch of road at 12.45am, Sunday. His account of the discovery seems a little 'off' to me. I'd wanna see him cleared by DNA at this point.
Gautney was a lifestyle drifter at age 65, who knows if he drove age 29. But he does seem a too-thin thread. Unless he was seen on the road that night or was definitely seen at that fair, I do think he's too far a stretch -- but worth considering, regarding MO, etc.
Lonnie'd already spent $5 - must've had a great time at the fair! And was given an extra $1 for his movie by his generous gran. Lonnie's step-dad said he last saw Lonnie at a cafe in Orofino in the afternoon - was that maybe where he ate his burger? So weird that nobody saw him later.
What if he'd been in the company of the killer for a few hours and managed to get away - and the creep was out looking for him?
God PLEASE DONT Stop!!!Kline, sorry for spamming up this thread.
But after reading over those articles, my head is full of scenarios. My thoughts on possibilities at this point are as follows:
- The killer was prepared.
He had a "razor-sharp" weapon with him. It's too much, imo, to believe that Lonnie's murder was not premeditated and the killer just happened to be carrying a razor-sharp knife with him. Lonnie's killer was looking for a victim, and found one.
- The road would have been lonely that time of night.
Since the killer appears to have been on the prowl for a victim, could he not have picked a more certain time and place to find one? Unless there were a LOT of kids hitch-hiking that road that late at night on a regular basis -- which there might have been, while the fair was town -- the odds of a killer on the hunt meeting up with Lonnie by chance seem quite remote.
- The killer could have been another hitch hiker.
Sure, he could have had a car. But he could have also been a hitch hiker. One of the articles quotes police as saying they believe Lonnie was killed not far at all (a matter of feet) from where he was found -- in the opposite direction from where he would want to be going, if I've got it right. The short distance from the bridge to the place where he was killed is walking distance - he could have been persuaded to accompany somebody, with the promise of a ride home once they got to Orofino, or something.
- The killer could have driven Lonnie in the direction of Orofino.
And simply ignored any objection from Lonnie that they were 'going the wrong way'. Or grew worried about Lonnie's objections and pulled over to 'deal with it'.
I'm wondering if the ground on the roadsides there would have been soft enough to show tyre tracks? I can see a trucker pulling over and leaving his truck in plain sight - but a killer in a car would probably not want his vehicle seen.
Unless the killer was the trucker who found Lonnie. He claims he found the body by sheer chance as he pulled over to take care of some 'stomach cramps' -- which I guess explains why he couldn't wait for home, or a truck stop bathroom or something. So, with all the wide back-woods of Idaho to take an emergency poop in, this trucker pulls over (in something of a hurry, I'd assume) and walks directly to THAT particular clump of bushes where Lonnie's body is. That's some pretty steep odds, there.
I wonder where and when he took care of those emergency-stop-inducing 'stomach cramps' after finding Lonnie's body and then looking around town for cop, making the report, etc. Maybe the shock cured 'em.
Or maybe it was his skilled-with-a-boning-knife step-dad, scared Lonnie was going to cramp his style. The recently married couple moved to Weippe that same year that Lonnie died. Lonnie's mother had left her son to be raised by his grandparents, for whatever reason. Maybe Lonnie was making a fuss about wanting to live with his mother.
Anyhow. That's the contents of my head after reading. I'll shush now (but oops, cross-posted with scriptgirl! I dunno, SG. A man divorces his wife and moves town with his brand new missus (and a brother I can't find records on in tow), and finds his wife's unwanted kid demanding attention that neither wants to give him. Sadly, it is a possibility - until it isn't. There's a couple cans of worms there I can't ignore just yet).
It occurs to me that Marner's son and Lonnie were roughly the same age in 1951.
This is AMAZING material!!
You Rock Ausgirl!!
I was away from my computer for two days and youve given me a treasure trove of material to go through.
THANK YOU!!!!
Even a description of the death scene thats the next best thing to a photo and the info THAT HE WAS KILLED WHERE HE WAS FOUND.Amazing.(And horrifying...)
Well I know what Ill be doing all day tommorow.
Once again my gratitude for your interest.