Idea

[dodie20]

I don't really understand why the little girls even need photo shoots and portfolios. They aren't models or child actors. The full makeup, hair, and why they are made to look exactly like mini grown women is also baffling. Maybe that's just the way it all evolved, but it seems unnecessary, and I can see why there is concern that the photos and videos could end up in the wrong hands.

My niece got caught up in the pageant circuit when she was about 12, and this particular organization was a crock. Everything was about feeding money into this business...from the girls getting sponsors, to buying ads in the programs, hiring the pageant hairstylists, makeup artists, coaches, etc... The more money you spent, the better your chance of winning the big titles. A regular girl signing up for the pageant experience didn't stand a chance. After one pageant, my niece came home with a small title and her mom called and complained about all the money she put into it and demanded a bigger title at the next pageant. And my niece looked hideous...the spray tan alone was just awful and orange and her hair was frumpy and unnatural. They stayed in this organization for years-nothing but a colossal waste of money. One time, she was awarded some kind of 'tv commercial' title, and they acted like this made her a commercial actress, lol-nothing but made up words on a plaque. Anyway, they encouraged the little girls to wear the makeup and buy the portfolios and of course, while they were at it, hire who they recommended. Those pictures of the little ones made me sick...so fake with their grown up teeth and kind of 'corpsey' looking. Really, really creepy pictures. moo

 

[dodie20]

No, to pageant people T&T is something to stay away from.
There have been a FEW serious pageant girls who have been on it (more toward the beginning of the show) but they regretted it, and now for the most part, the only girls you see on there are just hoping for a tv spot but aren't actually big name pageant girls. For example this honey boo boo girl isn't even a pageant girl at all, they only began doing a few pageants because her mom just wanted to do something to try to get on tv.
Also, if you notice, T&T keeps visiting the SAME pageants over and over, just changing the names of the pageant so it won't look like the same thing! They've gone to more Universal Royalty pageants than I can count. The other 2 they repeat are Gold Coast and Southern Celebrity. They just use different names but the reason they keep going to the same ones are that the GOOD pageants won't let them in anymore!!
One reason the good pageants don't allow them, is that they report inaccurate results on the show (they actually film a fake crowning after the real crowning) and also they try to spread rumors to get people arguing, fighting etc and basically just try to stir up drama for their show.
The show just isn't respected, mainly because of how much they ALTER stuff. It's reality tv.
We have been in the background of the show, and have seen them feed kids lines to say (lines mean to make them or their moms look bad), they try to get the kids away from their moms so that the mom won't know the kid is being fed lines.
They film your family anywhere from 3-5 days and if you have a two year old at some point they'll probably have a tantrum over something, well, of course the show has one hour to tell a story, so they will use every piece of bad footage they have and leave out anything good. My daughter is older than that but I mean I have a little girl, not a toddler, but I wouldn't why take the risk, you never know how little kids will act with cameras following their every move...but I think you'd have to be stupid to put an actual toddler on their toddlers are prone to meltdowns anyway.
Now I will say that of course you can't film something that didn't happen- some families really are that crazy! But, they portray that as the "usual thing to expect at pageants" when in actuality, we DONT see that kind of behavior as a regular thing. It's just not how it is.
Back when we were first realizing all this, we and other families would find out T&T will be there, and we would just decide to stay home rather than go to the pageant and be involved in that mess. Drop in entry numbers may be why T&T isn't welcomed to film at the big nationals.

I will say girls who are on T&T have a lot more fans that girls who haven't been. Because young girls watch T&T, young girls who think pageants are neat but either aren't allowed to do them or whatever- just like that show Dance Moms..a lot of young girls watch these things.
But, if it's fans you're wanting, plenty of pageant girls who've never been on these shows have hundreds of fans and so it really isn't necessary.

On the other hand, a few girls we know had been on Little Miss Perfect, a pageant show that isn't on anymore. On that show, everyone reported having a wonderful time, being treated mostly fairly, etc.

One thing I've noticed about T and T, is they show these moms standing in the audience doing the dance moves, lol. Now I know, there's no way so many moms carry on like this without being prompted. No way! And when I saw Honey Boo Boo's mom going through the dance motions, I knew without a doubt that it was scripted. Please...and to use a word I used a bit ago, no adult would want to look that 'hideous' on camera without being prompted. moo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When did glitz pageants start? When did pageants go from...every girl just wears a simple dress and no makeup to glitz becoming a type of pageant?

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Also, I was watching The Golden Girls, where Blanche's granddaughter decides to enter a pageant. The episode was from 1992. There was no mention of makeup, costumes, sexualization, danger, pedophiles, etc. I do not think that episode would ever have been written post-JonBenet's murder. Same with this Babysitters Club book from 1988, where a pageant comes to town, and a bunch of local girls decide to enter.

 

[dodie20]

When did glitz pageants start? When did pageants go from...every girl just wears a simple dress and no makeup to glitz becoming a type of pageant?

----

Also, I was watching The Golden Girls, where Blanche's granddaughter decides to enter a pageant. The episode was from 1992. There was no mention of makeup, costumes, sexualization, danger, pedophiles, etc. I do not think that episode would ever have been written post-JonBenet's murder. Same with this Babysitters Club book from 1988, where a pageant comes to town, and a bunch of local girls decide to enter.

IDK! what's wrong with a 6 year old looking like a 6 year old? There is nothing wrong with a sweet little smile with a couple of missing teeth. That's natural. A 6 year old with grown up teeth, is just wrong.

 

[DeeDee249]

The photoshoot happened on September 4, 1995. I know the date because it was the last day Linda Wilcox worked for the R's, and she mentioned it in an interview. JonBenet's hair was dyed during the Summer of 1995. Now am I mistaken or does it look like JonBenet's hair is different from her natural color and from the blonde shade we normally see on her in pictures? It's more of a strawberry blonde. I guess Patsy was trying out different shades on her? Or maybe it wasn't possible for JonBenet to go from her natural shade to the blonde Patsy wanted in one dye job?

JB's hair as seen in her younger photos, was actually a dirty blonde/sandy light brown. It got blonder in her last few years after they moved to Colorado. By 1996, Patsy had her highlighted to almost platinum blonde. JB's hair had highlights (us older gals remember it as streaked or "frosted hair"), it was not dyed, though that "strawberry blonde" look may have been a rinse or something.
I read long ago that at least one hairdresser Patsy brought JB to had refused to color the hair of a child that young.
It was the recent addition of the platinum blonde highlights that prompted some of Patsy's friends want to hold a "mega-JonBenet" intervention with Patsy after the holidays. Patsy was even asked by a friend whether she died JB's hair and she said it was the "hot Michigan sun" that was responsible for the blonder locks. Of course, that would be odd in December, right? Interesting to note that in the autopsy report, the coroner noted her hair had been "freshly colored". He could tell by how close to the scalp the blonde streaks went- how much of her darker roots were showing.

 

[txsvicki]

I think Patsy used toner rinses on JonBenet like women with bleached hair have to use. Sometimes it looked more ash blonde, platinum, and sometimes sunny golden blonde. I guess it could have been lighting, but she looked more ash blonde in the Christmas party and Christmas morning pics, but darker golden blonde in the autopsy photos.

 

[pageantmom]

When did glitz pageants start? When did pageants go from...every girl just wears a simple dress and no makeup to glitz becoming a type of pageant?

----

Also, I was watching The Golden Girls, where Blanche's granddaughter decides to enter a pageant. The episode was from 1992. There was no mention of makeup, costumes, sexualization, danger, pedophiles, etc. I do not think that episode would ever have been written post-JonBenet's murder. Same with this Babysitters Club book from 1988, where a pageant comes to town, and a bunch of local girls decide to enter.

There were glitz pageants then, too.
There have been kids pageants for decades.
At first it was just frilly, dressy, Sunday best, like that.
I think over time people began wearing makeup, and it just gradually got glitzier and glitzier.
By the late eighties, early nineties, it took on a life of it's own.
However in the 80s girls could kind still of wear whatever, whereas nowadays it's all so specific and you have to have "the right clothes" lol.
I didn't start pageants til after this, so it's not my experience but just what I observe from seeing pageant pictures/videos from back in the day...I was doing pageants from around 1991-92 (like age 6, 7) or so and continued all the way up through college and my daughter started at a few months old so for both of us pageants were always the way they are now. I think there was a definite change by the late 80s/early 90s though it happened gradually.

 

[borndem]

http://www.newsweek.com/strange-world-jonbenet-171868 Here's a pretty good article titled, "The Strange World of JonBenet", describing how people looked at the kiddie pageant stuff back in 1997. What a lot of people saw, was this rich family abusing their daughter for all to see, and they got away with it. And then she wound up murdered. Even then, we heard about children being murdered, but this one was different, because there seemed to be so many red flags and warning signs. Weird though, because the other children they mentioned seemed to live normal lives compared to JB. moo

A good article, dodie -- thanks for sharing it with us. It just made me want to scream & cry at the same time: to scream at PR for making that such a big (although PR says it was not a big deal at all) part of their lives, leaving BR at the doorstep, so to speak, to attend Little Miss _____ competitions, and for filling JB with ideals and goals that would only be fulfilling for a short while, IMO. Certainly winning the Miss America pageant would be a truly big deal with travel and opportunities to become more poised and self-confident, a scholarship, and a gang of consultants during that year to help you better yourself in good ways. But to start it at 3 or 4 years old??

Yes, Olympic ice skaters, swimmers, gymnasts, skiers, etc., etc., got started early as well, as did professional athletes. Remember Andrea Jaeger? She broke all kinds of records for being "the youngest ever to..." And now she is an Anglican Dominican nun.

And I want to cry for the little girl -- and she was just a little girl, trusting and always trying to please, as all good children do -- she was being given life ideals and goals, as all good parents try to do, but in the wrong type of venture, IMO. And she never got the chance to grow old enuff to say "I want to stop," if she possibly might have wanted simply to take riding, swimming, music or ballet lessons -- just for fun, not for beauty competitions. And I realize that modeling, photo-shoots, and talent competitions are not all bad or negative, but the milieu of some of these Little Miss ______ competitions could draw dangerous attendants.

JonBenet was just a little girl. Oh, let me stop. <sniff, sniff>

ETA: And let me add, I hope my mini-rant did not offend those folks who do the child pageant circuits -- the ones here on WS sound like level-headed parents or past competitors who did pageants "the right way." I just didn't get the impression that PR was doing it like that...

 

[pageantmom]

One thing I've noticed about T and T, is they show these moms standing in the audience doing the dance moves, lol. Now I know, there's no way so many moms carry on like this without being prompted. No way! And when I saw Honey Boo Boo's mom going through the dance motions, I knew without a doubt that it was scripted. Please...and to use a word I used a bit ago, no adult would want to look that 'hideous' on camera without being prompted. moo

I know. Pageant routines are not that complicated!
There are moms who actually do that, but it's dumb because it usually is simply distracting rather than helpful. Some kids stop onstage and just watch their mom lol. It's so silly.
Some pageants don't allow it because it is distracting.
The majority of moms don't really do that..the ones who do it usually have a very young one, like 3 or 4. If the moms are doing that for a child any older than 3 or 4, everyone would just think it's ridiculous.

I figure if your kid can't remember a simple routine then they're not ready.
Or, they can do what anyone does when they get onstage and forget, they can just ad lib and make it up as they go.

 

[borndem]

I hope it is ok that I copied and pasted a paragraph out of that article. I typed in bold, the regular type is from the article. Just some things that stood out to me:
.
.
respectfully snipped for space by borndem
.
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I also have to say Dodie...That was what you said, is absolutely true.....there weren't any other pageant kids with lives like JonBenets. Her life to me seems so different than what any others pageant kid experienced. Other girls do pageants but also have normal lives, or at least they are able to kind of able to balance two lives- the normal, school and family life on one side, and the other more glamorous life on the other side...I don't envy JB one bit, she led a life of privilege but I don't think she led a very happy life.
:no:

Thanks so much, pageantmom, for all of your comments about the pageant world. Many of us are probably not very familiar with the inner workings of child pageants, and you fill in a lot of blanks and possibly dispel misinformation, too, of how they work. Your comments are very valuable and informative.

 

[pageantmom]

And let me add, I hope my mini-rant did not offend those folks who do the child pageant circuits -- the ones here on WS sound like level-headed parents or past competitors who did pageants "the right way." I just didn't get the impression that PR was doing it like that...

Thank you bordem, no, not offended.
On the contrary I hope I don't sound holier than thou saying "but *I* don't do THAT" lol.
I mean, I don't think I'm pushy at all, but then after all it's easy for me not to be pushy because my daughter wants to practice, I never have to push to get her to do it...we do pageants cause we have fun..however, I started my daughter when she was still just a baby, so I'm fully aware that it wasn't really HERchoice to do it. Now, I would NOT be taking her to these things if she didn't enjoy them! But, it's not like she crawled up to me as an infant and said "mama I want to be onstage" lol.
Also, I may have a level head and not pushing her to be a star with the reality shows and all that, but she does do a little bit of modeling and acting, and I will admit it does give me a thrill to see my kid on a catalog and stuff like that.
And just like all the other pageant kids, mine goes on stage with her tan and her makeup airbrushed on and flippers. We also do natural pageants where you aren't allowed to have makeup and all that fake stuff. Natural pageants like Cinderella, American Coed, NAM, and we enjoy the natural pageants too mostly because of all the good friends we have who do the natural ones, but.. to be honest my daughter likes the makeup and all that so she prefers doing the glitz ones. I like them too. In fact when I was a little girl I always loved the glitz ones better, to me the makeup and everything was just fun and glamour.
I'm just being honest, I'm sure many, many people would disagree with what I'm doing, and I hope I don't come off as "but I'M the perfect pageant mom!" Lol.

 

[borndem]

Enjoyed your post above, pageantmom! Your talking about the glitz, etc., made me think back -- many years -- I was definitely a tom-boy, but every now & then, my little girlfriends (we were 4, 5 years old) & I would enjoy glitzing-up with whatever kid's makeup we could find -- our moms did it, so why not us? -- and the Avon lady would visit every now & then with those little lipstick (teeny-tiny) samples and the foundation samples, and nail polish -- what little girl didn't want red toenails? and on and on. That's as far as it went with my little group, but we sure had a good time!

Oh, poor little JonBenet.

 

[borndem]

Maybe that's it. I just don't think they look "right". They do look rushed, and JB does NOT look happy.
I don't get the rope.. really, NONE of her "farm theme" photos look appropriate to me: In some of them she's laying down, some she's with ropes, and one they have her posing with her mouth wide open which doesn't even look childlike because she's got a ton of lipstick on- why would you have only a touch of lip gloss on for some pictures, but then full red lips for the photo where her mouth is open like that.
No not everything is nefarious but some things just rub you the wrong way.

MOO of course, her best port shot was the one that kind of made you think of Alice in Wonderland.
Her tire swing picture are pretty good too.

IMO the worst portfolio shot ever is this: View attachment 39511
I mean my god what were they thinking. :banghead:

Yep, pageantmom, that one is the worst one I've ever seen -- and she was so photogenic and so pretty, it was prolly hard to take a bad one.

As soon as I saw that pic, however, I saw a lot of Patsy in JB's face -- maybe it was the hair style (?) or the open mouth, IDK, but I can really see Patsy Ramsey in her little face.

 

[Venom]

Yep, pageantmom, that one is the worst one I've ever seen -- and she was so photogenic and so pretty, it was prolly hard to take a bad one.

As soon as I saw that pic, however, I saw a lot of Patsy in JB's face -- maybe it was the hair style (?) or the open mouth, IDK, but I can really see Patsy Ramsey in her little face.

It's the eyes.

 

[Snowball58]

Can someone please post this cowgirl/rope pic that is being discussed? I've searched online but can't seem to find it...TIA!

 

[DeDee]

Can someone please post this cowgirl/rope pic that is being discussed? I've searched online but can't seem to find it...TIA!

http://www.freewebs.com/jonbenet-ramsey-gallery/

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

One thing that bothers me (amongst many) regarding kids doing pageants is this: the cute look of a kid doing a pageant is a *FAR* cry from what the judges are looking for in a young woman in a big-name pagaent. It's the transition that worries me---and that a child may feel very personally ugly as they attempt to win as much as they did but entering into more young adult pageants.

As these pageant kids get older, I fear that they may not grow into what pageants progress to; a much more competitive venue. At the young adult level, pageants become highly competitive. Many of the contestants have had mulitple cosmetic surgeries, starting in their early teens. True talent (for the talent portion) is highly regarded as well as a sleek, statuesque, perfect figure with long legs. One must develop a "charity" or voice for a special cause. Ones personality needs to be coached so that it is always polite and politically correct. Perfect posture, perfect pitch to the speaking voice, and the perfect gowns and swimsuits are a must. And a biggie: there can be no unfortunate social mishaps recorded for posterity on social media.

Plain ole' cute and nice won't cut it at the level of a young adult. The bar is raised much, much higher. If a young kid is used to winning but doesn't "age" into a stunning beauty, what becomes of them?

Do I think that JBR could've pulled it off? Perhaps.

So how will these young tot pageant winners make (or not make) a graceful transition?

You listening, Honey Boo-Boo?

:facepalm:


moo (based on observations/experience)

 

[DeeDee249]

Don't need to worry about Honey BooBoo. NO pageant titles are in her future. Heredity is your destiny. She will be Mama June. I happen to like Mama June- but realistically I don't see"Miss America" in Alana's future. I hope they invest her reality show earnings wisely.

As far as JB and this photo, it is an adorable shot. Nothing sexual/sensual or inappropriate. Like or hate the rope, I read NOTHING into its presence other than it being used as a prop for a country photo.

This is a far cry from what I understand pageant judges (especially the glitz ones) are looking for. They WANT to see sexual/sensual little girls. They want the come-hither looks and showgirl outfits, and so moms will strive to see that their little girls give them what they think will win the crowns for them.

 

[FreeSafety36]

First time I've seen that photo. Thanks for posting it DeDee.

Realizing hindsight is 20/20, and the age of the photo, it just doesn't sit well with me. If you're wanting to do a country girl/cowgirl type of pose, wouldn't it be much more suitable to do it outside, or with at least an outdoorsy-type background rather than one that looks like she's in a prison cell or cave?

Maybe it's usual to not have backgrounds in portfolio photos. Maybe the idea is they take away from the subject of the photo. Forgive me, I know nothing about this stuff...but if that's the case, then why use any props or themes, like this obvious country/cowgirl type?

The rope in those photos just doesn't look right to me. It looks far too long and takes your attention away from JB; and the way she's entwined in it in the first photo looks anything but natural. It's almost as if the rope itself is also a subject of the photo, rather than a supporting prop.

JMO of course.

 

[pageantmom]

Don't need to worry about Honey BooBoo. NO pageant titles are in her future. Heredity is your destiny. She will be Mama June. I happen to like Mama June- but realistically I don't see"Miss America" in Alana's future. I hope they invest her reality show earnings wisely.

As far as JB and this photo, it is an adorable shot. Nothing sexual/sensual or inappropriate. Like or hate the rope, I read NOTHING into its presence other than it being used as a prop for a country photo.

This is a far cry from what I understand pageant judges (especially the glitz ones) are looking for. They WANT to see sexual/sensual little girls. They want the come-hither looks and showgirl outfits, and so moms will strive to see that their little girls give them what they think will win the crowns for them.

Honey boo boos not a pageant kid. They didn't do pageants until mama June wanted to try to get on tv. She is obsessed with TLC. She wanted to be on the extreme coupon show, but TLC wanted her on toddlers and tiaras instead, so now they do pageants. I doubt very much they will go to pageants at all once the TLC gravy train is finished with them.