IDI Theories (intruder did it)

[mum]

I keep thinking someone that knew family and neighborhood well..if all these things can be substantated then what leads me to believe this is : The neighbors dog let out , the man with baby sighting, the dumpster fire seem to all point away from family...I think its possible that the door was left open cause when her company left she was tired and didnt check door ..i think maybe the boy getting up in the middle of the night turned on lights ..maybe when he got up Lisa was already gone. Maybe the lights were off till that point. I think the screen was pushed in cause someone tryed to push in the window with screen up. I dont think its suspicious that the dad left his cell at home cause he had a work phone? And i wonder if the mother was buying wine for the homeless guy...did they find the box in their house. I dont know why but i feel they are innocent ..I hope the LE doesnt use only statistics to dictate how they investigate crimes.. IMO thats how i see the case at this time.

Also in order to find the home, you need to know how to get to it. Not an area where you just happen to be at. Indication that one needs to know how to get there.

 

[Whocanitbenow]

Intruder just happens to know JI is working his first overnight? And this intruder just happens to know that DB has left a window and/or door open? And then this intruder breaks into an occupied house under the cover of darkeness, snatches a baby and turns on all the lights in the house?!

Oh, and snags all 3 cells phones conveniently placed together on the kitchen counter?

Uh uh. Nope. (JMO, of course.)

Maybe they did not know it was overnight but were just watching and looking for opportunity. Maybe he took the phones because now a days, Most people don't have land lines and only keep cells. So he took them to keep them from calling police, Maybe this is someone they know and maybe it is someone they have never met who wanted that baby.

Parents always get the benefit from me until they prove otherwise.

 

[Kat]

I keep trying to put together a some other dude did it scene and I am having a heck of a time I'll tell ya whats holding me back maybe you can help me sort this out.

First the cell phone's are bothering me, there is something on those cell phones imho that nobody wants found. Yes a perp could have taken them knowing their name/contact was on the phone thus stirring up interest as they would know LE would go through them or someone in the home ditched them.

I keep reading about a dog in the home, no barking from the dog or action taken on its behalf. So either the dog knows the perp in some sort of way (friend or family) or it was conked out beyond belief, or the perp just happened to have a great big steak on them.

The lights and window issue. Again nothing from the dog, you would think someone who came through a window or even a front door and started turning on lights, snags the baby wouldn't perk a dog's interest ?
My neighbor and ourselves were having problems with thefts around our property for quite sometime. She has a kennel full of large dogs that are outside right in front of her property, mainly gas was being stolen from our cars wich in revelance to her dog kennel were fairly close, I could not figure out why they weren't barking. Then she calls me one day to tell me someone had stolen her wallet out of her truck wich was like 1 ft away from the dog kennel and it dawned on me that it is apparent the dogs know the perp, because they bark at me when I go check my mail and I have lived here over 8 years and the same dogs. Turned out it was her husband that had been stealing due to a meth problem he had.

Mom heard nothing, the other kids heard nothing. I suppose if ALL the doors were closed perhaps, and that would make sense as to why she did not notice any lights...

And last but probably not really last Everything seems out of the ordinary that night then what regulary happens at that home. Doors unlocked,moms not sure she locked them but usally does. lights left on,moms sure she turned them off. Window left open, Dads first night away from the home.Child is in moms bed that usally isn't.

I just have a really hard time believing that a perp turned on all the lights while moving about the house, unless they new maybe mom had been drinking and drank enough to knock her out. Perhaps one of the kids getting up to use the bathroom turned on the lights?

OMG that last one reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings case.......

Bolded respectfully by me

If Jeremy noticed that the corner of the screen was bent in the computer room when he went to close it (video of this and transcription located on thread about lights and window) then I assume that the screen was within the frame of the window as it normally would be---wouldn't you?

So---an intruder comes in through the computer room window thereby bending the frame of the screen. Yet that intruder doesn't remove the screen to gain access through the window. Rather that intruder bends the frame in order to slide the screen up and then slides the screen back down into place?

Wouldn't it be easier to remove the screen to have complete access to the open window? Or how about just cut the screen? Or how about just get your fingernail up under the spline (that seal that holds the screen in the screen window frame) and just pull the screening out of the frame and throw it to the ground?

But yet this intruder---opens the screen window, makes sure the screen window is back in place before moving into the home---opening doors in order to turn on lights---and exists through a door.

:waitasec:

huhn. Not working for me how about you?

 

[tink92]

"While we are speaking of abducted babies, I’ll list them all again. (From memory. I may have missed one or two.) I include babies two and a half or younger, only cases where it looks like the baby was abducted by a stranger and it doesn’t look like the baby is dead or that the parents were involved."

http://charleyross.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/raymond-lamar-green-and-other-missing-babies/

After reading things like this above article and so many missing kids with no trace, I think it is always a possibility..There are really sick people out there.

I think whoever took her has meet or knows the family.
They climbed through the window it is possible that they know the other neighbor's movements and when they went to sleep.
They knew where Lisa's room was.
























The dog's not barking.
Lisa not crying.
The dad's first day on the night shift also points to it being someone who knows this.
The light's turned on, maybe knew no light would effect the mom in her room.
Taking the DNA of neighbor makes me think they have someone's DNA and are trying to eliminate everyone known to be in the house..

LE did stress that the family was not involved in the beginning and sent out a unusual Amber alert. I still don't think that the reason the LE said the parents were not cooperating is because they think they are guilty. I think they said it to get the parents back talking with them. The parents are the only ones who know who has been around little Lisa or them. My sister is close to me but she would have no idea who I seen in the store, passed walking in the neighborhood, had at my house, people I talk to at my kids school..ect.

I don't like to rely on statistics..there are too many missing without evidence and no clear abduction..so focus stays on family... there is always a first time for anything. Cases like this remind me of Jaycee and her step-father. There is not enough to make me believe this family harmed her yet, I really don't want to rush to judgement.. I just don't know what happened!!

Please GOD, helps us find this precious little pumpkin pie!

ALL IMO...

I TOTALLY agree with all you say!...you speak a lot of sense.

That link to other missing babies was very interesting but so sad...IMO this case sounds similar to a lot of those cases,....especially baby Sabrina.

 

[21merc7]

Now we find out that one of the autos was broken into about a month ago.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44872173#44872173

2:17 mark

 

[iluvmua]

Now we find out that one of the autos was broken into about a month ago.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44872173#44872173

2:17 mark

What about the autos? I'm confused, did one or both parents mention that their autos had been broken into?

 

[Aedrys]

I keep trying to put together a some other dude did it scene and I am having a heck of a time I'll tell ya whats holding me back maybe you can help me sort this out.

First the cell phone's are bothering me, there is something on those cell phones imho that nobody wants found. Yes a perp could have taken them knowing their name/contact was on the phone thus stirring up interest as they would know LE would go through them or someone in the home ditched them.

I keep reading about a dog in the home, no barking from the dog or action taken on its behalf. So either the dog knows the perp in some sort of way (friend or family) or it was conked out beyond belief, or the perp just happened to have a great big steak on them.

The lights and window issue. Again nothing from the dog, you would think someone who came through a window or even a front door and started turning on lights, snags the baby wouldn't perk a dog's interest ?
My neighbor and ourselves were having problems with thefts around our property for quite sometime. She has a kennel full of large dogs that are outside right in front of her property, mainly gas was being stolen from our cars wich in revelance to her dog kennel were fairly close, I could not figure out why they weren't barking. Then she calls me one day to tell me someone had stolen her wallet out of her truck wich was like 1 ft away from the dog kennel and it dawned on me that it is apparent the dogs know the perp, because they bark at me when I go check my mail and I have lived here over 8 years and the same dogs. Turned out it was her husband that had been stealing due to a meth problem he had.

Mom heard nothing, the other kids heard nothing. I suppose if ALL the doors were closed perhaps, and that would make sense as to why she did not notice any lights...

And last but probably not really last Everything seems out of the ordinary that night then what regulary happens at that home. Doors unlocked,moms not sure she locked them but usally does. lights left on,moms sure she turned them off. Window left open, Dads first night away from the home.Child is in moms bed that usally isn't.

I just have a really hard time believing that a perp turned on all the lights while moving about the house, unless they new maybe mom had been drinking and drank enough to knock her out. Perhaps one of the kids getting up to use the bathroom turned on the lights?

OMG that last one reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings case.......

I agree with you. I just keep asking myself over and over, who breaks into a house and steals a baby and three cellphones? That just doesn't make any sense to me if it's a random person. But if it's a family member or someone who knew the family, then it makes more sense. But why? Babies need a lot of care. If someone took that baby, I don't think they were planning on keeping her alive, unfortunately...

I really can't decide here. Having followed cases like Casey Anthony, Kyron Horman, Zahra Baker, I think I have a built in cynicism, but this case just doesn't sit right with me. A random intruder is too easy and sounds way too much like the imaginanny from the Casey Anthony case. But at least the mother cried over the loss of her child...this is definitely a case that has me twisting and turning!

 

[Miziree]

I've been trying to find data about how often babies are abducted and came across a really good article I thought I would share.

I'm only half way through it myself...it is VERY long but has a lot of info on how and why babies went missing and were recovered...this study was for 10 years and babies under 6 months kidnapped by non-family...

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC66.pdf

 

[redfish]

Just a thought, but maybe the llights were left on so the intruder could watch the results of his actions (like watch the reaction when mom and or dad discovered the baby missing) If the perp is near by the lit up house would show up really good and he could watch this play out. IDK this thought was passing through my head and I just had to spill!

 

[Kat]

I'm trying very hard to evaluate if there was an intruder. I still haven't come to any conclusions.

But some thoughts off the top of my head:

1. Breaking and entering a home while an adult is present within that home is a high risk crime.

2. Breaking and entering a home in order to abduct a child (infant, toddler or child) is a high risk crime.

3. Breaking and entering to steal valuables and deciding to take a baby that happens to be there is a high risk crime.

So if we are dealing with an intruder we are dealing with one that is willing to commit a high risk crime. Which could possibly indicate (although not always) that the intruder has done this before or his/her crimes have escalated to this point to where their previous crimes gave them confidence to do this.

3. Entering through a window where the room being entered is unknown and the layout of the furniture (possibly located under window) is unknows the the intruder...


4. Moving through the home and opening doors?---did the intruder look into each bedroom? That is very high risk behavior to move through a house once inside without purpose. (just some thoughts if we trust the info given to us by Deborah that she closed bedroom doors at night).

5. How many doors did the intruder have to open to find sleeping Lisa if that was the intruder's target of crime?

6. Turning on lights within the home? If we trust the info given to us Deborah states she turned off the lights before going to bed. So if we assume the intruder turned on the lights---

7. Stealing 3 cell phones on way out the door? If we go by the reason Deborah gives and that was to delay a call to 911 that isn't logical. (I posted the reason why I think this on the cell phones thread IIRC).

I'm trying very hard to make this fit. I don't have any conclusions of what happened to Lisa.

Looking at each detail we could explain them away. But looking at each detail within the context of the a singular crime (abduction of a baby) where each element is important---it doesn't fit. No matter how hard I try to make it fit, it just won't.

I'm not saying there wasn't an intruder. I'm just trying to work this out in my mind. JMHO

If it was an intruder I'm concluding it was someone that knew the layout of this home. Knew that exactly how many cell phones were in that home and knew that there wasn't a landline. Possibly. JMHO

 

[tlcya]

If an intruder abducted baby Lisa, IMO that intruder was familiar with the family.

 

[mck16]

What about the autos? I'm confused, did one or both parents mention that their autos had been broken into?

Not sure who reported it, but it was known early on.

 

[ketel0ne]

Let's dig this thread back up:

Did LE do the following:
Fingerprint the house,bedroom, window, by the time the video of the bedroom came out it sure didn't look like it.
Luminol
Footprints by the window

Are there similarities to Elizabeth Smarts case that are being overlooked?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I have a theory that the local cat did it. Who wants to hear it?

 

[ketel0ne]

I have a theory that the local cat did it. Who wants to hear it?

Just trying to stay out of the group think hang em high mentality and it follows me here.

 

[balaney]

one of the two boys could have gotten up and turned the lights on - kids never turn them off

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just trying to stay out of the group think hang em high mentality and it follows me here.

I'm not in the hang 'em high group, Ketel. Not yet anyway. I just found it funny that the next door neighbors german shepherd was going crazy on a reporter, but when the neighbors cat strolled by, the dog didn't make a sound.

Just me being silly. Carry on.

 

[ketel0ne]

I'm not in the hang 'em high group, Ketel. Not yet anyway. I just found it funny that the next door neighbors german shepherd was going crazy on a reporter, but when the neighbors cat strolled by, the dog didn't make a sound.

Just me being silly. Carry on.

So do the brother or neighbor leaving and coming back count as an intruder? Maybe the German Shepard would think of them much like the cat.

 

[SyraKelly]

I keep thinking someone that knew family and neighborhood well..if all these things can be substantated then what leads me to believe this is : The neighbors dog let out , the man with baby sighting, the dumpster fire seem to all point away from family...I think its possible that the door was left open cause when her company left she was tired and didnt check door ..i think maybe the boy getting up in the middle of the night turned on lights ..maybe when he got up Lisa was already gone. Maybe the lights were off till that point. I think the screen was pushed in cause someone tryed to push in the window with screen up. I dont think its suspicious that the dad left his cell at home cause he had a work phone? And i wonder if the mother was buying wine for the homeless guy...did they find the box in their house. I dont know why but i feel they are innocent ..I hope the LE doesnt use only statistics to dictate how they investigate crimes.. IMO thats how i see the case at this time.

This made me think of something I do all the time-When my company leaves I walk them to the door and say goodnight-I close the door and lock it!!

 

[essies]

If an intruder abducted baby Lisa, IMO that intruder was familiar with the family.

That's what Pat Brown said also.
IMO If IDI-then it was a crime where the intruder knew specifics of family (work schedule for the night, layout of home. habits of certain individuals, etc...):waitasec:
My bottom doesn't hurt from being on the fence anymore-but my hands are killing me-cause I'm barely holding on to any IDI theory!!