Idle Thought

[Solace]

:blushing: Thank you, I love reading your posts too!!

Glad you are here. I read ST book and his theory was very good, but I could not understand about the turtleneck - meaning when and how it happened that it was thrown on the floor like that. I just could not see it happening that morning. It just seems that Patsy was exhausted in the evening and her patience was wearing very thin. She gave them pineapple, no doubt. Her prints are there on the bowl. So she is lying. Period. JB was up and ate it. She does not want her up at all - she would have to explain too much. So lets just say she is asleep and that is that. End of that line of questions that we will have to endure.

But what our other poster, JMO, presents - Patsy wanting to put the turtleneck on her before bed makes sense. She is tired and wants possibly to dress her partially the night before and there is an argument from JB. The hair ties are all over the place on the bathroom floor. She is throwing JB around. She is only 40 pounds. She could have done this thing in the bathroom and JB hit her head very hard againt the sink or the bathtup. I am more inclined to believe that she fell very hard against the bathtub and that is where the beginning of the injury hit her at the base of her head and spread. This really is more than an accident - it is just pure rage. As I see it.

I really believe Patsy self-medicated all the time and so she really does not have control of her emotions and when she is tired, she is lethal.

 

[Ames]

:blushing: Thank you, I love reading your posts too!!

Glad you are here. I read ST book and his theory was very good, but I could not understand about the turtleneck - meaning when and how it happened that it was thrown on the floor like that. I just could not see it happening that morning. It just seems that Patsy was exhausted in the evening and her patience was wearing very thin. She gave them pineapple, no doubt. Her prints are there on the bowl. So she is lying. Period. JB was up and ate it. She does not want her up at all - she would have to explain too much. So lets just say she is asleep and that is that. End of that line of questions that we will have to endure.

But what our other poster, JMO, presents - Patsy wanting to put the turtleneck on her before bed makes sense. She is tired and wants possibly to dress her partially the night before and there is an argument from JB. The hair ties are all over the place on the bathroom floor. She is throwing JB around. She is only 40 pounds. She could have done this thing in the bathroom and JB hit her head very hard againt the sink or the bathtup. I am more inclined to believe that she fell very hard against the bathtub and that is where the beginning of the injury hit her at the base of her head and spread. This really is more than an accident - it is just pure rage. As I see it.

I really believe Patsy self-medicated all the time and so she really does not have control of her emotions and when she is tired, she is lethal.

I believe that JB was actually wearing that turtleneck when she went to bed, whether she had worn it UNDER the white Gap shirt to the White' Party...OR...Patsy decided to put it on her for bed, so that she would dressed for the trip the following day. I don't know WHY JB was wearing it...I just believe that she was. I agree with you, I believe most likely that Patsy flew into a rage, and JB ended up with her head hitting the TUB. I not only believe that Patsy self medicated all the time as YOU believe...I also think that she may have had one cocktail too many at the White's (and she has admitted to having a couple in one of her interviews...so THAT tells me that she was drinking at the party). This could also be the reason that she flew into that rage. Alcohol makes people do what they normally wouldn't do. I want to clarify for all of the IDI's out there....I am NOT saying that Patsy was a drunk ...all that I am saying is that she could have possibly had one too many cocktails that night, at the party...therefore...making the rage scenario all the more plausable.

 

[Solace]

I believe that JB was actually wearing that turtleneck when she went to bed, whether she had worn it UNDER the white Gap shirt to the White' Party...OR...Patsy decided to put it on her for bed, so that she would dressed for the trip the following day. I don't know WHY JB was wearing it...I just believe that she was. I agree with you, I believe most likely that Patsy flew into a rage, and JB ended up with her head hitting the TUB. I not only believe that Patsy self medicated all the time as YOU believe...I also think that she may have had one cocktail too many at the White's (and she has admitted to having a couple in one of her interviews...so THAT tells me that she was drinking at the party). This could also be the reason that she flew into that rage. Alcohol makes people do what they normally wouldn't do. I want to clarify for all of the IDI's out there....I am NOT saying that Patsy was a drunk ...all that I am saying is that she could have possibly had one too many cocktails that night, at the party...therefore...making the rage scenario all the more plausable.

Ames: But would not the red turtleneck be showing if it were beneath the white gap shirt. The top part of the turtleneck would have shown and I could swear I read somewhere that Fleet White or his wife, Fleet, I believe said she was wearing the white gap shirt.

Also, in one of her interviews she said she was taking xanax (highly addicting, highly) for panic attacks. When John was asked whether it would surprise him if he was told Patsy took medication for panic attacks, he said "yes it would". Mike Kane asked him that. John did not know that Patsy was taking xanax? I do not, do not, do not, believe him.

 

[Veronica10]

I believe that JB was actually wearing that turtleneck when she went to bed, whether she had worn it UNDER the white Gap shirt to the White' Party...OR...Patsy decided to put it on her for bed, so that she would dressed for the trip the following day. I don't know WHY JB was wearing it...I just believe that she was. I agree with you, I believe most likely that Patsy flew into a rage, and JB ended up with her head hitting the TUB. I not only believe that Patsy self medicated all the time as YOU believe...I also think that she may have had one cocktail too many at the White's (and she has admitted to having a couple in one of her interviews...so THAT tells me that she was drinking at the party). This could also be the reason that she flew into that rage. Alcohol makes people do what they normally wouldn't do. I want to clarify for all of the IDI's out there....I am NOT saying that Patsy was a drunk ...all that I am saying is that she could have possibly had one too many cocktails that night, at the party...therefore...making the rage scenario all the more plausable.

I agree about the cocktails...can you imagine how exhausted she must have been? Even a glass of wine makes me want to just lie down on the couch...I can't imagine getting home and having to finish packing and the million other things she had to do to get ready for the trip to Michigan (which she didn't want to take). Believe me I know how kids can get your blood pressure up too. I have three girls under 6 years old. I have lost it at times, maybe yelling at my girls when I should not have. But that night I think Patsy's dam burst...I think she had a ton of pent-up rage behind the perfection. The wine very well could have contributed to an explosion and subsequent wrong-thinking in not seeking help for JB and then, the infamous note and staging. Could her judgment have been impaired?

 

[Ames]

Ames: But would not the red turtleneck be showing if it were beneath the white gap shirt. The top part of the turtleneck would have shown and I could swear I read somewhere that Fleet White or his wife, Fleet, I believe said she was wearing the white gap shirt.

Yes, it would have shown...and I didn't know that Fleet had said that she was wearing ONLY the white Gap Shirt. If thats the case, then I believe that the RED turtle neck was put on her, right before bed.

Also, in one of her interviews she said she was taking xanax (highly addicting, highly) for panic attacks. When John was asked whether it would surprise him if he was told Patsy took medication for panic attacks, he said "yes it would". Mike Kane asked him that. John did not know that Patsy was taking xanax? I do not, do not, do not, believe him.

Shoot....I do not believe that either. How would he not know that his wife was taking Xanax....that's insane.

 

[Ames]

I agree about the cocktails...can you imagine how exhausted she must have been? Even a glass of wine makes me want to just lie down on the couch...I can't imagine getting home and having to finish packing and the million other things she had to do to get ready for the trip to Michigan (which she didn't want to take). Believe me I know how kids can get your blood pressure up too. I have three girls under 6 years old. I have lost it at times, maybe yelling at my girls when I should not have. But that night I think Patsy's dam burst...I think she had a ton of pent-up rage behind the perfection. The wine very well could have contributed to an explosion and subsequent wrong-thinking in not seeking help for JB and then, the infamous note and staging. Could her judgment have been impaired?

Oh yes....it could have been....and I am guessing that it WAS.

 

[Solace]

Ames: But would not the red turtleneck be showing if it were beneath the white gap shirt. The top part of the turtleneck would have shown and I could swear I read somewhere that Fleet White or his wife, Fleet, I believe said she was wearing the white gap shirt.

Also, in one of her interviews she said she was taking xanax (highly addicting, highly) for panic attacks. When John was asked whether it would surprise him if he was told Patsy took medication for panic attacks, he said "yes it would". Mike Kane asked him that. John did not know that Patsy was taking xanax? I do not, do not, do not, believe him.

Ames, I am not positive about Fleet White saying that, but I could swear I read it. I will check it out and see if it is in any of the books I have.

 

[Eagle1]

I never said all the friends were having a sex party with JonBenet, couldn't imagine that myself, since I don't know how sex parties are done, anything about them. At one forum years ago the owner knew about S&M and all the other games for adults, but I don't remember any of that.

So many times, the RDI's have put words in my mouth that I never dreamed of, this isn't meant to sound sarcastic,any more than your sayings are, just a real question, that maybe I'm not the only thing or person you're misunderstanding, reason you can just jump to conclusions about this case that professional LE's can't.

I once knew a man who was getting senile and used to say "Keep It Simple Stupid" all the time, embarrassed that he couldn't keep up with things any more. Wasn't a problem solver, that's for sure. You couldn't get mad at him, but couldn't explain the simplest thing to him either. You don't want to risk being stereotyped as one of those, do you?

If somebody, not myself, comes up with a complicated new theory they been checking and cross-checking for months, we'll be as nice and appreciative to them as we'd want them to be to us, right? You were just kidding,right?

Hi, Solace,

Since you asked the same question again after someone's "KISS" remark and my posting the above, I'm just saying the same thing again too, that okay I'll give you NO complicated explanations. You said you didn't want them and I don't want to waste my time either. Even if you're not the one who made the "KISS" remark, and I don't remember who that was or even care enough to look back, it goes to show what a waste of my time it would be to get drawn into any argument.

Like it or not, there just isn't enough evidence yet to prove anything one way or the other and having arguments wouldn't change that.

 

[Solace]

Hi, Solace,

Since you asked the same question again after someone's "KISS" remark and my posting the above, I'm just saying the same thing again too, that okay I'll give you NO complicated explanations. You said you didn't want them and I don't want to waste my time either. Even if you're not the one who made the "KISS" remark, and I don't remember who that was or even care enough to look back, it goes to show what a waste of my time it would be to get drawn into any argument.

Like it or not, there just isn't enough evidence yet to prove anything one way or the other and having arguments wouldn't change that.

Eagle: You have my response confused with Veronicas. I believe Veronica did not know what KISS stood for and someone explained it to her.

 

[Solace]

Hi, Solace,

Since you asked the same question again after someone's "KISS" remark and my posting the above, I'm just saying the same thing again too, that okay I'll give you NO complicated explanations. You said you didn't want them and I don't want to waste my time either. Even if you're not the one who made the "KISS" remark, and I don't remember who that was or even care enough to look back, it goes to show what a waste of my time it would be to get drawn into any argument.

Like it or not, there just isn't enough evidence yet to prove anything one way or the other and having arguments wouldn't change that.

Hi Eagle;



So I take it you did not mean any of the following:



"Simply to hide the fact that they and some of their friends sometimes had these after-party adventures with poor little JonBenet, I'll bet." or “Try this idea on for size at least, that some of them may have been there that night. Picture it. Possible, right? Didn't Nedra say JonBenet was only molested "a little bit"? So even she knew about whatever crazy thing was going on.”

No argument here Eagle. I just think this Board is about a discussion in reality not fiction. There is certainly enough evidence to prove that the guests arrived in the early morning, as Officer French arrived first and the guests later.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

To answer your question...absolutely, positively, NOT.
It's my humble opinion that JBR wasn't offered for a sacrifice on Christmas Day, nor would she have been sacrificed any day of the year. Her death IMO was an accident casued by her mom, covered up by dad and lied about for 10 years.

I totally agree with you Philamena! I think Patsy did this and covered it up on her own. It was an accident. At some point (probably on December 26th) John realized what Patsy did and silently went along with the game.

That being said, there is another possibility, although it is far-fetched. If you look at cases like Deanna Laney, you can almost see another scenario.

In a nutshell, Laney stoned her two older boys to death outside in the middle of the night and went back in the house to kill her infant son. Her husband heard the baby crying and asked Laney about the infant's distress. Laney, looney as could be, had the presence of mind to lie to hubby and tell him that the baby simply needed a diaper change. This lie sent the husband back to bed and allowed Laney to continue to bash the baby in the head with a stone.

Later, Laney herself called 911 to report the murders (baby survived, btw.)

If Patsy was as looney as Laney, (Laney was also a religious woman who saw visions) I can see a scenario where she sacrificed JBR and was heading to Burke's room next when John intervened, much like Laney's husband almost intervened. However, since John was all about apearances, he insisted that his crazed wife clean up her mess and cover up what she had done instead of confessing.

This might be the reason why the cover-up has "Patsy" written all over it. It also explains why Burke might have been awake and why he might have heard his parents arguing. It might be how John is involved and how he knew where to find the body. It would also explain the distance between Patsy and John on the 26th. He may not have let her complete the task at hand (by sacrificing the boy too.) And he may have forced the cover-up instead of a confession.

Again, I think this idea is far-fetched. The simplest answer is probably the correct one: Patsy killed her child by accident and covered it up.

 

[Solace]

I totally agree with you Philamena! I think Patsy did this and covered it up on her own. It was an accident. At some point (probably on December 26th) John realized what Patsy did and silently went along with the game.

That being said, there is another possibility, although it is far-fetched. If you look at cases like Deanna Laney, you can almost see another scenario.

In a nutshell, Laney stoned her two older boys to death outside in the middle of the night and went back in the house to kill her infant son. Her husband heard the baby crying and asked Laney about the infant's distress. Laney, looney as could be, had the presence of mind to lie to hubby and tell him that the baby simply needed a diaper change. This lie sent the husband back to bed and allowed Laney to continue to bash the baby in the head with a stone.

Later, Laney herself called 911 to report the murders (baby survived, btw.)

If Patsy was as looney as Laney, (Laney was also a religious woman who saw visions) I can see a scenario where she sacrificed JBR and was heading to Burke's room next when John intervened, much like Laney's husband almost intervened. However, since John was all about apearances, he insisted that his crazed wife clean up her mess and cover up what she had done instead of confessing.

This might be the reason why the cover-up has "Patsy" written all over it. It also explains why Burke might have been awake and why he might have heard his parents arguing. It might be how John is involved and how he knew where to find the body. It would also explain the distance between Patsy and John on the 26th. He may not have let her complete the task at hand (by sacrificing the boy too.) And he may have forced the cover-up instead of a confession.

Again, I think this idea is far-fetched. The simplest answer is probably the correct one: Patsy killed her child by accident and covered it up.

Wolfsmargirl: I know the case you speak of and Patsy is not in the same category. If she were, John would not be able to shut her up, if she believed she was doing the right thing. At some point she would blab it all - because she was insane at the time.

This is an accident an aided and abetted accident. And all 3 members of the family are lyng at some point.

 

[Eagle1]

Wolfsmargirl: I know the case you speak of and Patsy is not in the same category. If she were, John would not be able to shut her up, if she believed she was doing the right thing. At some point she would blab it all - because she was insane at the time.

This is an accident an aided and abetted accident. And all 3 members of the family are lyng at some point.

Sure everyone it seems lied at some point, and/or just made mistakes due to the extreme tension and shock that would affect anybody in their situation.

Yes, you said it, this theory was far-fetched. If PR had been insane she would have in some way blabbed it all.

It's just not a simple case at all. Or LE would have had to solve it instead of letting it go cold.

I've already told about a person who was getting senile and knew it being embarrassed about not understanding as well as others in a group, who heard the saying "Keep it Simple, Stupid" and frequently used it. Which brands and stereotypes you, destroys your credibility. Let's don't fall into that trap. This is a complicated case, unique in some ways.

 

[BBB167893]

Not insane, but very possibly disturbed.

 

[coloradokares]

Not insane, but very possibly disturbed.

Bingo!! :clap:

 

[Toltec]

There was nobody at the Ramsey home but the Ramseys. Patsy is mentally ill. In this excerpt from DOI paperback version, she literally confesses to the crime. The color purple in which she dressed JonBenet in...(John said that JonBenet looked beautiful in her purple dress Christmas Eve.) Patsy tells us the meaning of SBTC.....meaning of the gravestone inscripture...

The Color Purple:

PATSY: In a way that I did not recognize at the time, there had been strange premonitions of ill during the previous Christmas season. I had ignored them. Yet now, some of those "nudges" came back to haunt me.

One of these strange events had occurred while I was decorating the big Fraser fir tree in our living room. I kept making trips back and forth downstairs, where most of the decorations were kept. Greenery, sild poinsettias, and ornaments were stored on shelves in the back room of our basement. As I unloaded the cabinets, getting everything out for the Christmas tree decorating, I had noticed a large roll beautiful purple velvet ribbon on one of the shelves. I reached up and took it down. Usually I decorated with gold, red, or green, but on that day the color purple particularly caught my eye.

Why not? I thought. Purple would be a different look this year. The family won't expect it. And it could be beautiful.

For a moment I held the roll of ribbon up to the light, noticing how striking it was. Perfect, I said to myself. I think this will be a nice touch. With the ribbon in hand, I started back upstairs to trim the tree.

I took the roll into the living room and started interweaving the ribbon throught the branches. I like the effect so much that the richly colored velvet sort of took over in prominence and gave the Fraser fir a decidedly purple cast. The family loved the look of the beautifully decorated tree. Maybe I'd started a new tradition, I thought.

Now my mind wandered back to that moment, and I began thinking about that one large Christmas tree. The velvet ribbon suddenly flashed into my mind. I could once again vividly see the purple strands running from branch to branch around the tree. At that moment, another image opened up before my eyes.

Purple was always used at St. John's Episcopal Church during the season of Lent. I remembered that on Good Friday the cross in the center of the altar was draped with a sheath of purple cloth. Father Rol and the ladies of the altar guild adorned the alter in purple to remind us that Christ had died on this profoundly significant day. Suddently the two seasons blended together in my mind.

Advent and lent. Both are marked with the color purple!

In a strange and unexpected way, I had unconsciously woven death into the fabric of our Christmas celebration, and, of course, couldn't have imagined in my wildest nightmare how the 1996 Christmas season would end for us. I couldn't help but feel that there had been a premonition in my selecting purple ribbon for our Christmas tree. Without an awareness of its significance, I had placed the meaning of Lent in the midst of our celebration of the nativity. Beconing to the future, the use of the deeep purple ribbon suggested that what began in the cradle would end on the cross.

When I later shared my premonition with a friend, she told me that purple is particularly significant to Christians because it blends the colors of red and blue. Anglicans often think of blue as the color that symbolizes mankind or humanity. Of course, red represents our redemption throught the shed blood of Christ.As the red and blue come together in purple, it becomes a symbolic way of telling the world that "God is present" with mankind. As those ideas worked in my mind, another connection began to form. An assurance had been handed to our family with the presence of the color purple. As God was present in the crucifixion of Jesus, in ways that we couldn't grasp or understand, he was also presentin the tragic death of our daughter. In the extreme pain of our loss, God the Father was standing near with his hand upon the Ramsey family, as interwoven in our lives as the ribbon on the tree.

Purple did have a place after all.....

Does anyone see the meaning of SBTC?

The position of JonBenet's body....crucifixion?

 

[Solace]

There was nobody at the Ramsey home but the Ramseys. Patsy is mentally ill. In this excerpt from DOI paperback version, she literally confesses to the crime. The color purple in which she dressed JonBenet in...(John said that JonBenet looked beautiful in her purple dress Christmas Eve.) Patsy tells us the meaning of SBTC.....meaning of the gravestone inscripture...

The Color Purple:

PATSY: In a way that I did not recognize at the time, there had been strange premonitions of ill during the previous Christmas season. I had ignored them. Yet now, some of those "nudges" came back to haunt me.

One of these strange events had occurred while I was decorating the big Fraser fir tree in our living room. I kept making trips back and forth downstairs, where most of the decorations were kept. Greenery, sild poinsettias, and ornaments were stored on shelves in the back room of our basement. As I unloaded the cabinets, getting everything out for the Christmas tree decorating, I had noticed a large roll beautiful purple velvet ribbon on one of the shelves. I reached up and took it down. Usually I decorated with gold, red, or green, but on that day the color purple particularly caught my eye.

Why not? I thought. Purple would be a different look this year. The family won't expect it. And it could be beautiful.

For a moment I held the roll of ribbon up to the light, noticing how striking it was. Perfect, I said to myself. I think this will be a nice touch. With the ribbon in hand, I started back upstairs to trim the tree.

I took the roll into the living room and started interweaving the ribbon throught the branches. I like the effect so much that the richly colored velvet sort of took over in prominence and gave the Fraser fir a decidedly purple cast. The family loved the look of the beautifully decorated tree. Maybe I'd started a new tradition, I thought.

Now my mind wandered back to that moment, and I began thinking about that one large Christmas tree. The velvet ribbon suddenly flashed into my mind. I could once again vividly see the purple strands running from branch to branch around the tree. At that moment, another image opened up before my eyes.

Purple was always used at St. John's Episcopal Church during the season of Lent. I remembered that on Good Friday the cross in the center of the altar was draped with a sheath of purple cloth. Father Rol and the ladies of the altar guild adorned the alter in purple to remind us that Christ had died on this profoundly significant day. Suddently the two seasons blended together in my mind.

Advent and lent. Both are marked with the color purple!

In a strange and unexpected way, I had unconsciously woven death into the fabric of our Christmas celebration, and, of course, couldn't have imagined in my wildest nightmare how the 1996 Christmas season would end for us. I couldn't help but feel that there had been a premonition in my selecting purple ribbon for our Christmas tree. Without an awareness of its significance, I had placed the meaning of Lent in the midst of our celebration of the nativity. Beconing to the future, the use of the deeep purple ribbon suggested that what began in the cradle would end on the cross.

When I later shared my premonition with a friend, she told me that purple is particularly significant to Christians because it blends the colors of red and blue. Anglicans often think of blue as the color that symbolizes mankind or humanity. Of course, red represents our redemption throught the shed blood of Christ.As the red and blue come together in purple, it becomes a symbolic way of telling the world that "God is present" with mankind. As those ideas worked in my mind, another connection began to form. An assurance had been handed to our family with the presence of the color purple. As God was present in the crucifixion of Jesus, in ways that we couldn't grasp or understand, he was also presentin the tragic death of our daughter. In the extreme pain of our loss, God the Father was standing near with his hand upon the Ramsey family, as interwoven in our lives as the ribbon on the tree.

Purple did have a place after all.....

Does anyone see the meaning of SBTC?

The position of JonBenet's body....crucifixion?

Hi Toltec: I don't know if I can read what you are reading into this. HOWEVER, I do firmly believe in the power of the subconscious mind (which gives us the "order of the day") and for some reason she has a feeling. Why? And this is not farfetched at all. It was on her mind. She also said when she was wrapping the doll, she pictured JonBenet in a coffin. That is very telling, especially since her daughter died shortly afterward, supposedly by her hand.

 

[Toltec]

Anyone have any thoughts on my post?

 

[narlacat]

Anyone have any thoughts on my post?

Well, I agree PR was mentally ill, did LE ever get her medical records?

 

[Toaster]

Anyone have any thoughts on my post?

The color purple is also that of Royalty and I think Patsy's such a nut case that subconciously Patsy thought she was a Queen and wasn't going to let her kingdom crumble by JB blabbing about John molesting her so she and John did what they had to to keep their Kingdom from crumbling.