If Elizabeth Acted Alone, What Did She Do With Gabriel?

[BeanE]

Reminder to PLEASE stay on the topic of this thread. There are plenty of places to discuss other angles involving the Smith's.

bumpity bump

 

[BeanE]

Since I only heard of this case a few weeks ago, I missed all of the early interviews and such. So, I was just reading this transcript from NG on the 7th, and just don't understand this part from a defense attorney, Michael Mazzariello...snipped.



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/07/ng.01.html

What the hey are they talking about? I thought they were talking about showing up at the Motel 6 and leaving the carseat behind..empty. But. Does he mean hotel parking lot?

If it has been discussed already, I would be grateful if someone could point me to it. Thanks.

I believe they're discussing when Eliz checked into the hotel reportedly with a carseat turned away from the desk and the clerk couldn't tell if there was a baby in it.

 

[kappy50]

bumpity bump

BeanE... I feel certain this was directed at me.I by no means am the perfect post... Do me a favor or can I make a request, can we just go back to general discussions...the threads are ok for reference...but to me, that's about it...it takes away from the one on one dialogue that I think we all like too have...and for a guest viewing, he or she maybe hesitate to sign up if they knew we had to jump through all these loophole threads just for a general conversation...that one guess, maybe your next clue..just my ole southern stupid person opionion

 

[sleuth2001]

BeanE... I feel certain this was directed at me.I by no means am the perfect post... Do me a favor or can I make a request, can we just go back to general discussions...the threads are ok for reference...but to me, that's about it...it takes away from the one on one dialogue that I think we all like too have...and for a guest viewing, he or she maybe hesitate to sign up if they knew we had to jump through all these loophole threads just for a general conversation...that one guess, maybe your next clue..just my ole southern stupid person opionion

No offense but I agree with this post. I don't visit or post as often anymore because I feel like I am jumping through hoops trying to catch the latest news and the general discussion seemed more interesting and easier. Just my opinion though, I still love it here, just like the old way of doing things....anyway, back on topic

 

[BeanE]

BeanE... I feel certain this was directed at me.I by no means am the perfect post... Do me a favor or can I make a request, can we just go back to general discussions...the threads are ok for reference...but to me, that's about it...it takes away from the one on one dialogue that I think we all like too have...and for a guest viewing, he or she maybe hesitate to sign up if they knew we had to jump through all these loophole threads just for a general conversation...that one guess, maybe your next clue..just my ole southern stupid person opionion

It wasn't directed at you, kappy. You were right on topic.

I'm just a member here just like you, and I don't have any say in how the forum is organized. Honestly though, I've spent most of my time here following Caylee Anthony's case from the beginning, and I this the method of organization being incorporated into Gabe's forum is a very good one.

I can't find things when it's all General Discussion. But in Caylee's forum, although it's absolutely huge, I know exactly where to go to find what I'm looking for.

It took some getting used to though. We started there with General Discussion threads, and we had to adjust as things got organized.

Hang in there, kappy, please. It will get easier. And we need you here

And you, my friend, are far from stupid. You make very astute observations, and I enjoy your posts.

 

[kissdegirl]

Kappy50, I don't want you to feel bad since I too enjoy your posts, so I wanted to say that it was directed at my post, which I removed. I'm sorry you felt it was directed at you.

I get into the flow of conversation and post my replies only to realize they've gone OT.

Sorry all.

 

[BeanE]

I'm trying to gain more insight into what Elizabeth was more likely to do, give Gabe away, or to sell him.

If you were in San Antonio, had never been there, didn't know anyone there, and you wanted to remove your baby from life, which do you think you could more easily do? Give your baby away or sell him?

For myself, at the moment, I'm thinking I could more easily sell him. I'd be afraid to walk around asking people if they wanted him. But I think I could hook up with drug dealers on the street, and connect with someone who wanted to buy a baby that way.

Can I have some thoughts on what others thing please?

TIA

 

[southern_comfort]

I'm trying to gain more insight into what Elizabeth was more likely to do, give Gabe away, or to sell him.

If you were in San Antonio, had never been there, didn't know anyone there, and you wanted to remove your baby from life, which do you think you could more easily do? Give your baby away or sell him?

For myself, at the moment, I'm thinking I could more easily sell him. I'd be afraid to walk around asking people if they wanted him. But I think I could hook up with drug dealers on the street, and connect with someone who wanted to buy a baby that way.

Can I have some thoughts on what others thing please?

TIA

I find it so difficult to imagine what she might have been thinking. That's why I wish I knew more about her good side... what made Logan love her and keep her in his life for all of those years. A pretty face only counts for so much.

I'm having a hard time going down this road, though I understand why you are trying. For Gabriel, no stone should be left unturned.

Even if EJ were able to quickly and/or randomly find someone to take Gabriel or buy him (though as a practical matter, I don't think the average person selling drugs on the street is involved in baby trafficking or has the slightest clue about the subject), I just can't see her doing it.

IMO, a mother can feel emotion (maybe even love) and possess a functional conscience and nevertheless kill her child. But selling him to drug traffickers or the sex underground is something else altogether. It is most likely sealing him to a fate that is worse than death. To do something like that to one's child, a parent would have to be devoid of emotion and conscience and, IMO, completely sub-human. I'm sure there are people with severe mental disorders who are that empty and cold, and of course there are people who are sufficiently damaged and motivated by their drug addictions (such as in Shaniya's case).

But we have seen no evidence that EJ was on drugs herself, and we know that LM (who by all appearances seems like a great guy) loved her for a long time.

I don't know whether she sold him or gave him away, but if she didn't kill him, then my gut tells me that she gave him to someone she could at least justify in her mind as providing care for him - not drug traffickers or the sex underground.

 

[panthera]

It was Yami the reporter who gave the name of Raymond Russell. I don't think we have anything that it came from Eliz.

I think Mexico is a good possibility. MissingGabe told me that there is some thought that Eliz was originally headed to Mexico, but that something went wrong, and she ended up in San Antonio.

There's a big Mexican market in San Antonio called El Mercado. I've been there. I think it's a top candidate for a place Eliz would have been likely to go to, to look for someone to give Gabe away to, in a short time frame.

O/T - so good to see you here, my friend

Not really understanding this at all, would the people she'd find at El Mercado, for example, take Gabriel to Mexico to sell on the black market there? I can't see why a Mexican couple who could have children of their own would want Gabriel. So what I'm envisioning is to sell him as a commodity down in Mexico. Am I close or way off? I do think if he's alive it's possible he went to Mexico though. :waitasec:

 

[panthera]

I have a question. How many people know someone that want to adopt a baby? If you ran into a pregnant woman right now and she told you she was thinking about adopting a baby would you be able to tell her about someone you know that wanted to adopt a baby? I don't know about you, but I love babies. When I go out, to the store or a restaurant or somewhere and there is a baby there I graviate towards the baby. I always ask how old they are, etc. If that person told me that they were thinking of giving the baby away I would probably immediately think of someone that wanted one. I even considered taking my daughter's friends baby when she decided to put him up for adoption (then sanity returned and I realized at over 50 with 5 children and 3 grandchildren I would not be the best choice for a little baby). The point I am trying to make is I don't see it as unreasonable that EJ found someone to take Gabriel off her hands. I don't even see her as having a problem finding someone even with minimal effort. I can even see how a person could want a baby so bad they would be willing to break the law for one. I do think it involved more then that though. I think she was already in contact with someone and that brought her to San Antonio. I believe that if LE had found some connection to San Antonio and the Smiths that would have been included in the charging documents, so I do believe that San Antonio was EJ's idea and something brought her there. I wish LE had her laptop because I believe that all the answers are in there.

I understand what you're saying but I really can't wrap my mind around her randomly finding somebody once she got to San Antonio, such as walking up to somebody on the street, in a park, at the mall or wherever and asking them if they wanted her baby. Or if some stranger came up to her and was telling her what a cute baby Gabriel is, that she'd just say "oh do you want him" and they'd take him. If that happened to me I'd wonder what was wrong (such as illness, for example) with the baby ~ since it's just not normal. So if she did hand him off or sell him to somebody, I think it would almost have to be arranged beforehand. MOO

 

[BeanE]

Not really understanding this at all, would the people she'd find at El Mercado, for example, take Gabriel to Mexico to sell on the black market there? I can't see why a Mexican couple who could have children of their own would want Gabriel. So what I'm envisioning is to sell him as a commodity down in Mexico. Am I close or way off? I do think if he's alive it's possible he went to Mexico though. :waitasec:

Yes, selling Gabe to someone met at El Mercado to be in turn sold in Mexico.

What sticks in my mind is Elizabeth's text message to Logan in which she said he would never see Gabe again, "I made sure of that." Selling a baby out of the country would make sure of that.

 

[BeanE]

I understand what you're saying but I really can't wrap my mind around her randomly finding somebody once she got to San Antonio, such as walking up to somebody on the street, in a park, at the mall or wherever and asking them if they wanted her baby. Or if some stranger came up to her and was telling her what a cute baby Gabriel is, that she'd just say "oh do you want him" and they'd take him. If that happened to me I'd wonder what was wrong (such as illness, for example) with the baby ~ since it's just not normal. So if she did hand him off or sell him to somebody, I think it would almost have to be arranged beforehand. MOO

I get hung up on that too. It's extremely risky to walk around asking people if they want to buy your baby. And like you said, what are the chances of somebody coming up to you, I mean, how does that conversation go?

"Oh my! What a beautiful baby you have!"

"Why thank you! Want him? Here..."

It's extremely difficult to conceptualize a reasonable, likely scenario under which it could happen.

 

[panthera]

Yes, selling Gabe to someone met at El Mercado to be in turn sold in Mexico.

What sticks in my mind is Elizabeth's text message to Logan in which she said he would never see Gabe again, "I made sure of that." Selling a baby out of the country would make sure of that.

Thanks for explaining further! It really seems so foreign to me to even be thinking of these illegal baby sales and adoptions. And I agree, selling him to be taken out of the country, especially Mexico, would make her statement even more certain. MOO

 

[panthera]

I get hung up on that too. It's extremely risky to walk around asking people if they want to buy your baby. And like you said, what are the chances of somebody coming up to you, I mean, how does that conversation go?

"Oh my! What a beautiful baby you have!"

"Why thank you! Want him? Here..."

It's extremely difficult to conceptualize a reasonable, likely scenario under which it could happen.

Yes, this is exactly why I can't envision this scenario either. It's not like she had a cute little puppy, for example, who she could say she just found, didn't have any way to take care of, and asking "would you like him?" And with a human baby, like I said, I'd wonder what the "catch" was ~ for example, did he have some illness, was he kidnapped, and so forth. I can't imagine some 'stranger on the street' just agreeing to take him! I'd call LE and report this crazy woman trying to give away/sell a baby! MOO