If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[MyTinkieGirl]

Hi claudicici

How did she know Cindy hadn't decided to take a sicky & take Caylee somewhere? She didn't see her that morning.

I am not saying someone did, I am saying someone could have, based on a previous case where a sexual predator who lived very close to Hopespring was caught in someone else's garage with a gagged child on the floor, but the child woke up. A pedophile could have watched Casey texting Tony till 3.00am & been pretty sure she was fast asleep by four. (Very risky behaviour admittedly as Casey often wakes up to send more texts! But isn't it the risk part of a pedophile's motivation?)

Where was this "sexual predator" at? To know KC was texting and not just fallen asleep with the lights on...or even IF that's what she was doing....maybe the lights were off to begin with?? Perhaps he was hiding in her closet picking out a nice pair of flip flops to put besides Caylees body in the garage??

On WHICH day is this sexual predator supposed to have done this dastardly deed??
This way, we can work our way thru this particular theory....as a jury would, given the same info we have from the documents, as they will be presented at trial.
A good exercise to test different theories, as you say are possible.

 

[cloud]

This sounds like a good closing argument ... should repost it on that thread.

Thanks, LisaNY... but it's so obvious. I would repeat it on the other thread, but I'm not sure which one you're referring to.

The important thing is that I don't believe any juror can be expected to swallow lie after lie after lie, when the truth is staring them in the face: Caylee's dead and decomposed body.

The shovel... the nanny that didn't exist, the absence of Caylee since she was last seen (they couldn't even agree on that!!!), the family's denial, the mother's self-indulgent behaviour as though she was glad to be relieved from some burden (meaning Caylee and attendant responsability), there's no way, in my mind, that any juror would consider that all this was imposed by someone else.

I have faith in the jury system, in people who can tell a tornado from a storm in a tea cup.

JMHO

 

[Eidetic]

I just wanted you to know, it being Sunday and all, I totally am able to clear my mind and just feel like at least TRYING to understand a different scenario....

1) IMO, duct tape DOES NOT scream "sex offender"....stuffing a sock in someones mouth or tying a piece of material, etc would/has worked on many a person...but in the spirit of accepting the "duct tape" theory....what are the odds of the offender having the EXACT same "RARE" tape as found to be used by the A's....piece on gas can, rolls given to helpers to attach posters....the same RARE tape which a TV video had a picture of as helpers were in fact putting up posters with...would the offender just come "unprepared" and rifle through the A's drawers to find some?? IMO, a sexual predator would have been much more "prepared", so to speak, maybe have their own little "tool kit".

2) IMO, the MOST important fact....the A's have 2 dogs....they were, according to the A's, Caylee's dogs. Now....I have 2 Yorkies...as you can see. They ARE "yappers"....I don't care HOW well behaved. Dogs are dogs....they can't help but bark....especially at a stranger. AND, they are pretty "possessive", so to speak. My Winston is an angel...he'll let me do ANYTHING to him....goofy garland around his neck and all...LOL
BUT....if ANYONE comes into the house, he'll bark like nobody's business until I tell him it's OK....even if my sister talks to me in a mean voice, he'll get PO'd at her....LOL

3) The A's seem pretty diligent, IMO, about their security...hmm, GA's LE/security guard jobs sort of attest to that. There were no signs of a "break in"....cut screen, jimmied door, etc.

4) As you know....the majority of us went thru threads and threads of possibilities....a great deal of posters truly believed she was innocent. NO ONE wanted to believe a mother could do a horrific thing such as this.....even the fact of waiting the "31 days"....AND, KC even swore out an affidavit a few months back that SHE, in fact, DID NOT call authorities to report this.

5) IMO, LE MUST have thought out EVERY possibility...as crazy as it seemed, even checking sex offenders in and around the area....they DID NOT want to be accused of a "rush to judgement".

6) Yet another point....IF anything such as this happened....the defense would have DEFINITELY gone here FIRST....no doubt in my mind....NONE. Yet, the defense stuck with Zanny...moved on to Ricardo....Amy (even researching and emailing betw CA and DC such personal derogatory info about her dug up by DC)....stuck on the Grund's for quite a while....I'm sure others in between....NOW, we got them trying to ruin yet ANOTHER person's life who had the misfortune of getting involved with this circus. EVEN KC didn't say ANYTHING after RK's pic was plastered across national media and newspapers to the effect of "OMG, thats the man I saw lurking around the house...I always saw him reading our meter..."

7) IMO...since Mort is STILL visiting KC in jail...I can almost guarantee they are trying to find a new scape goat to use as "evidence" by their deadline at the end of the month

8) I CAN'T go thru all the mountains of evidence released that will be used at trial to "connect the dots", so to speak, in a "logical" manner for the jury.
I think we forget...yet it has been said in post after post here on WS....the jury MUST come to a decision based upon FACTS as presented at trial.
Our legal folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jury isn't supposed to creat new scenarios, IMO.

9) If I'm correct....this above mentioned sex predator had a different "modus operandi", so to speak.

10) Gettin tired ovah here....LOL
This is as far as I'll go...is anyone STILL reading...LOL
KC didn't back into the garage...except on the 17th or 18th as reported by the neighbor, BB. Chances are...since she was in and out of the house so much, her car was probably "last in line" or on the street.....IF the whole scenario of Caylee dying at the hands of said sex offender...she would most likely been put into one of the other vehicles in the garage. Also....most trunks need a key to open....didn't the tow yard need to unlock the trunk, IIRC....how could the predator get the body in HER trunk without the key to unlock the trunk.....


I COULD keep going....but, I'm done for now....***and the thread draws a collective sigh of relief***

:bow: That is all. :gavel:

 

[panthera]

I don't remember KC ever saying she was told anything by the "kidnapper"..... all she ever said was she was afraid because she has seen what happens when people go to the police. (And, of course, afraid what her mother would say....) I don't recall her even once giving a true explanation as to why she was afraid to call the police when the imaginnanny supposedly stole her child from her. She also told her parents from the jail that she had not done anything for which anyone would want some kind of payback.

And remember, this imaginanny is also someone she says she had known for several years, since before Caylee was born, and trusted her completely.... and all the sudden she is "afraid"????

IMO, the defense won't be able to come up with anything that will prove reasonable doubt to the jury or that someone OTHER than KC could have killed Caylee.

(bolding mine)

And this also leads to another question, why would "Zanny" suddenly kidnap Caylee? Even if this nanny were real, what would make someone who had cared for a child for several months suddenly abduct that child without warning? :waitasec:

 

[panthera]

Are you serious!? Do you really believe any person who happened to find their dead child in the trunk of their car (I can't even believe that I just typed that) AND had nothing to do with the child being there would stop and say ..hmmm..this looks bad and might incriminate me...what should I do?! Let me just drive around awhile with my dead BABY in my trunk and do some investigating myself...AND you believe that is what any "intelligent person" would do? I have NO idea whether or not you have children and I'm not asking...but to say that I am stunned would be an understatement... No offense, really, we are all entitled to our opinions, but if that is the definition of intelligent, then I will be happy as a clam being the village idiot...:beamup:

I'll add the risk of getting pulled over for a traffic stop and LE finding the dead body in the trunk. No one who wasn't involved in the death would knowingly be driving around with the body there. They'd immediately call LE and not even touch the car for fear of compromising evidence and implicating themselves. MOO

 

[cloud]

(bolding mine)

And this also leads to another question, why would "Zanny" suddenly kidnap Caylee? Even if this nanny were real, what would make someone who had cared for a child for several months suddenly abduct that child without warning? :waitasec:

IMO, no-one would abduct a child on condition that the child's mother party, steal and live it up if she ever wanted to see her child again.

 

[panthera]

IMO, no-one would abduct a child on condition that the child's mother party, steal and live it up if she ever wanted to see her child again.

I agree. They either want ransom money or they're just going to abduct the child and never be heard from again. I think one of the most ridiculous things Casey has said was that she heard from Caylee ~ ironically ~ the day she was picked up, July 15. I guess she completely forgot that cell records are available. MOO

 

[Eidetic]

According to George, yes. By all accounts she yelled obscenities at him frequently but that doesn't prove she murdered Caylee.

:waitasec: No one implied that it did.

What it does point to (my opinon, of course), is more of a glimpse into the father daughter dynamic. Who does Casey have respect for, other than the great person she imagined up that she is? She obviously has no respect for any authority figures. Her own grand parents or the "friends" that she steals from.
This is another example of Casey's real personality, her sense of entitlement, lack of taking responsibility or possessing any kind of shame.

She has a lot of nerve to bring her boyfriend she hasn't even introduced to anyone, to an empty Anthony residence... bust the shed lock, take her fathers cans without so much as a text, a call or "I'll pay you back dad, emergency! Love Casey" note. She then gets furious when George confronts her because he had looked like a fool and wasted LE's time filing a police report and asked her to return them?
George of course, backs down as usual (I imagine sometimes it is easiest this way to deal with Casey OR Cindy) when Casey throws her fit.

I would have demanded to get into that trunk at that point, but it is also likely that George is numb and exhausted dealing with her at this point so he didn't put it together until later reflecting on it. Sadly, maybe he and Cindy never understood why Casey reacts the way she does and maybe this is why it has escalated to this surreal state.
George probably struggles with that "what if" scenario as well as so many others everyday. That long drive home by himself, windows down, just George enveloped in the smell of his decomposing grand daughter. I often wonder if he sobbed the whole way home.

 

[cloud]

I'll add the risk of getting pulled over for a traffic stop and LE finding the dead body in the trunk. No one who wasn't involved in the death would knowingly be driving around with the body there. They'd immediately call LE and not even touch the car for fear of compromising evidence and implicating themselves. MOO

That's playing it very cool... I couldn't do it. Any "body" - I'd be screaming in horror at first, then calm down somewhat to call emergency and LE.

If it were my child's body, I'd be hugging him or her, wishing them back to life with all my being, while I would cry and scream like a banshee. Not for help, for there is none. But for pain. Then I would take them in my arms, cuddle them and call emergency, LE, and swear in my heart that whoever did it had better say their last prayers.

I am a pacifist, but when it comes to children being hurt, let alone killed, that's the limit. I wouldn't hurt the perp myself, but I would see that they get the maximum penalty allowed. I'm against the DP, but in such a scenario, I would feel almost comfortable that it would be justified.

JMHO

 

[panthera]

That's playing it very cool... I couldn't do it. Any "body" - I'd be screaming in horror at first, then calm down somewhat to call emergency and LE.

If it were my child's body, I'd be hugging him or her, wishing them back to life with all my being, while I would cry and scream like a banshee. Not for help, for there is none. But for pain. Then I would take them in my arms, cuddle them and call emergency, LE, and swear in my heart that whoever did it had better say their last prayers.

I am a pacifist, but when it comes to children being hurt, let alone killed, that's the limit. I wouldn't hurt the perp myself, but I would see that they get the maximum penalty allowed. I'm against the DP, but in such a scenario, I would feel almost comfortable that it would be justified.

JMHO

After reading your reply I guess I did underplay what someone's reaction would be, but when I was typing up my post I was kind of thinking of George's reaction at the tow yard and then still driving the car home. Yes, I would be absolutely horrified while at the same time unable to figure out how someone was able to get her body in that trunk. I wouldn't be worried so much about myself being implicated but wanting to know how something so horrendous had happened and who did it. MOO

 

[Wrangler]

Basically, unless Casey someone pulls of an insanity defense, she's toast. There is no explaination as the jurors are parents and grandparents and they know her behavior is off the chain.

 

[panthera]

Basically, unless Casey someone pulls of an insanity defense, she's toast. There is no explaination as the jurors are parents and grandparents and they know her behavior is off the chain.

You're absolutely right. Even jurors without any children won't be able to get past Casey not reporting Caylee missing and her behavior during those 31 days. The only hope she has, imo, is maybe avoiding the DP. MOO

 

[cloud]

:waitasec: No one implied that it did.

What it does point to (my opinon, of course), is more of a glimpse into the father daughter dynamic. Who does Casey have respect for, other than the great person she imagined up that she is? She obviously has no respect for any authority figures. Her own grand parents or the "friends" that she steals from.
This is another example of Casey's real personality, her sense of entitlement, lack of taking responsibility or possessing any kind of shame.

She has a lot of nerve to bring her boyfriend she hasn't even introduced to anyone, to an empty Anthony residence... bust the shed lock, take her fathers cans without so much as a text, a call or "I'll pay you back dad, emergency! Love Casey" note. She then gets furious when George confronts her because he had looked like a fool and wasted LE's time filing a police report and asked her to return them?
George of course, backs down as usual (I imagine sometimes it is easiest this way to deal with Casey OR Cindy) when Casey throws her fit.

I would have demanded to get into that trunk at that point, but it is also likely that George is numb and exhausted dealing with her at this point so he didn't put it together until later reflecting on it. Sadly, maybe he and Cindy never understood why Casey reacts the way she does and maybe this is why it has escalated to this surreal state.
George probably struggles with that "what if" scenario as well as so many others everyday. That long drive home by himself, windows down, just George enveloped in the smell of his decomposing grand daughter. I often wonder if he sobbed the whole way home.

I totally agree with the first part of your post, and feel very sad about the last.

I can imagine how that could have happened, and it's heart-breaking. Torn between knowing (even subconsciously), disbelief, denial, and the pain of losing a grandchild you love and cherish, at the hands of your own daughter whom you also love and cherish. That's got to be one definition of hell on earth.

I believe that if Cindy Anthony would have allowed Casey to have Caylee adopted, none of this would have happened. Casey was clearly not ready to be a mother for her child, but she was expected to be, and IMO, ordered to be.

I believe Casey truly loved Caylee, until her mother pushed her too far and she sought avenues to escape. I also believe that when they were all exhausted, at the end of the day, Caylee was the subject of their individual and collective behaviour. And it was Caylee who paid for it.

If they can't see that and still choose to blame it on each other, and a range of other people, including their own family, the media, the public, it's not only sad, it borders on pshychotic.

All of the above thoughts represent only my opinion.

 

[littlemisslegal]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4enDdqwNXTE[/ame] kyle thomas sang this at memorial- take a minute and listen, if they play this at hearing there will be a flood of tears. she was a live child at one time, not a dead body. bless her soul. also can see cindy and george and lee in clip- bless the ones who loved her. sometimes we need to stop and think this is not just a websleuth post but real people post their thoughts. we are all different in our thoughts and life but come together to share our individual typed words. a part of our heart and souls. click on words you tube

 

[cloud]

After reading your reply I guess I did underplay what someone's reaction would be, but when I was typing up my post I was kind of thinking of George's reaction at the tow yard and then still driving the car home. Yes, I would be absolutely horrified while at the same time unable to figure out how someone was able to get her body in that trunk. I wouldn't be worried so much about myself being implicated but wanting to know how something so horrendous had happened and who did it. MOO

(bolding mine)

I don't know anyone who wouldn't react in the same way as we both described...

Unless they were trying to hide something deliberately. That was my point. Thanks for picking it up.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

You're absolutely right. Even jurors without any children won't be able to get past Casey not reporting Caylee missing and her behavior during those 31 days. The only hope she has, imo, is maybe avoiding the DP. MOO

She had that opportunity months ago, when she was offered a plea. The defense turned it down. So it's down to the trial and the jury's verdict.

JMHO

 

[cloud]

:waitasec: No one implied that it did.

What it does point to (my opinon, of course), is more of a glimpse into the father daughter dynamic. Who does Casey have respect for, other than the great person she imagined up that she is? She obviously has no respect for any authority figures. Her own grand parents or the "friends" that she steals from.
This is another example of Casey's real personality, her sense of entitlement, lack of taking responsibility or possessing any kind of shame.

She has a lot of nerve to bring her boyfriend she hasn't even introduced to anyone, to an empty Anthony residence... bust the shed lock, take her fathers cans without so much as a text, a call or "I'll pay you back dad, emergency! Love Casey" note. She then gets furious when George confronts her because he had looked like a fool and wasted LE's time filing a police report and asked her to return them?
George of course, backs down as usual (I imagine sometimes it is easiest this way to deal with Casey OR Cindy) when Casey throws her fit.

I would have demanded to get into that trunk at that point, but it is also likely that George is numb and exhausted dealing with her at this point so he didn't put it together until later reflecting on it. Sadly, maybe he and Cindy never understood why Casey reacts the way she does and maybe this is why it has escalated to this surreal state.
George probably struggles with that "what if" scenario as well as so many others everyday. That long drive home by himself, windows down, just George enveloped in the smell of his decomposing grand daughter. I often wonder if he sobbed the whole way home.

I totally agree with the first part of your post, and feel very sad about the last.

I can imagine how that could have happened, and it's heart-breaking. Torn between knowing (even subconsciously), disbelief, denial, and the pain of losing a grandchild you love and cherish, at the hands of your own daughter whom you also love and cherish. That's got to be one definition of hell on earth.

I believe that if Cindy Anthony would have allowed Casey to have Caylee adopted, none of this would have happened. Casey was clearly not ready for a mother for her child, but she was expected to be, and IMO, ordered to be.

I believe Casey truly loved Caylee, until her mother pushed her too far and she sought avenues to escape. I also believe that when they were all exhausted, at the end of the day, Caylee was the subject of their individual and collective behaviour. And it was Caylee who paid for it.

If they can't see that and still choose to blame it on each other, and a range of other people, including their own family, the media, the public, it's not only sad, it borders on pshychotic.

All of the above thoughts represent only my opinion.

 

[Curious Me]

:waitasec: No one implied that it did.

What it does point to (my opinon, of course), is more of a glimpse into the father daughter dynamic. Who does Casey have respect for, other than the great person she imagined up that she is? She obviously has no respect for any authority figures. Her own grand parents or the "friends" that she steals from.
This is another example of Casey's real personality, her sense of entitlement, lack of taking responsibility or possessing any kind of shame.

She has a lot of nerve to bring her boyfriend she hasn't even introduced to anyone, to an empty Anthony residence... bust the shed lock, take her fathers cans without so much as a text, a call or "I'll pay you back dad, emergency! Love Casey" note. She then gets furious when George confronts her because he had looked like a fool and wasted LE's time filing a police report and asked her to return them?
George of course, backs down as usual (I imagine sometimes it is easiest this way to deal with Casey OR Cindy) when Casey throws her fit.

I would have demanded to get into that trunk at that point, but it is also likely that George is numb and exhausted dealing with her at this point so he didn't put it together until later reflecting on it. Sadly, maybe he and Cindy never understood why Casey reacts the way she does and maybe this is why it has escalated to this surreal state.
George probably struggles with that "what if" scenario as well as so many others everyday. That long drive home by himself, windows down, just George enveloped in the smell of his decomposing grand daughter. I often wonder if he sobbed the whole way home.

Good post. Breaking into the shed with a new bf and not even leaving a note about it shows how thoughtless Casey really is. She was just having herself a blast taunting her parents to the max. Your post makes me realize how out-of-control Casey was and how her parents learned to adapt to whatever she did as though it was normal. The last scene in your post tells how broken George really is when he ends up having drive the reeking car and tell himself he'd just let CA handle it. He may have sobbed on the way home, but he did indeed go into work that night.

I think Casey as a child started to see George as weak and Cindy was way too strong. I'm sure Casey wished George would stand up to his wife more. JMO, she wanted to have a closer relation to her Dad, but he always let her down by letting Cindy rule. I don't know what would've happened if Cindy didn't call 911 and George was left to handle it.

OT, a jury is going to have to get into all of this, too. I, like all of you, know the facts of this case all too well. We know these Anthonys in depth now. We know too much about the kind of duct tape they buy, and all about the family dynamics. JMO, the Defense would have to come up with something as logical. compelling, and verifiable as the State will do. I don't think it can be done. All signs point to Casey.

 

[panthera]

(bolding mine)

I don't know anyone who wouldn't react in the same way as we both described...

Unless they were trying to hide something deliberately. That was my point. Thanks for picking it up.

JMHO

Well, then, so goes that possible defense!

 

[logicalgirl]

I totally agree with the first part of your post, and feel very sad about the last.

I can imagine how that could have happened, and it's heart-breaking. Torn between knowing (even subconsciously), disbelief, denial, and the pain of losing a grandchild you love and cherish, at the hands of your own daughter whom you also love and cherish. That's got to be one definition of hell on earth.

I believe that if Cindy Anthony would have allowed Casey to have Caylee adopted, none of this would have happened. Casey was clearly not ready to be a mother for her child, but she was expected to be, and IMO, ordered to be.

I believe Casey truly loved Caylee, until her mother pushed her too far and she sought avenues to escape. I also believe that when they were all exhausted, at the end of the day, Caylee was the subject of their individual and collective behaviour. And it was Caylee who paid for it.

If they can't see that and still choose to blame it on each other, and a range of other people, including their own family, the media, the public, it's not only sad, it borders on pshychotic.

All of the above thoughts represent only my opinion.

You know, this has allows bothered me, although I must first say I agree with most of what you say. And that is - Cindy wouldn't allow Casey to give her baby up for adoption. The only person who can make that decision is the child's mother. I speak from experience because I was underage when I had my first child, and to make matters worse, I was a ward of the state. They gave me two choices, give the child up or marry the child's father - even going so far as to tell me not to bother trying it on my own without money or a place to live they would take her away from me within three months. If the government can't make you give up your child, your own mother certainly can't. Casey kept Caylee for her own gratification, IMO and that was the attention it brought her. I don't think it was ever about Caylee.