If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

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what could possibly be worse?

Hardly anything would be worse than being thought responsible for a child disappearing but perhaps she thought she could get away with it not being implicated in either thing and once she realized she wouldn't it was too late.
 
This is a spin off thread
If Terri didn't do it, then why would LE so obviously be focusing on her?
Why would Kaine and Desiree purposely have these press confrences, pointing at Terri and away from the potential "real suspect"?

I have read that Terri is being framed...
That she is the scapegoat, and various other theories,
Can someone PLEASE help me understand why, LE and/or Kaine and Desiree would ruin this womans life, take away her child, paint her in such a horrible light, and point everyone away from who really took Kyron, if they didn't absolutely beleive she is responsible?


I believe KH and TH absolutely believe she is guilty. But I think KH and DY believe that because the police told them that THEY think she is guilty.

I have a lot of cops on my family. One a sheriff, patrol officers, detectives, and even MP. I can say without a doubt that they are good people, but they are just people. All police are just people. People are fallible. Policemen can "get a feeling" someone is guilty, they can be prideful and ignore anything that goes against what they think happened, they can be jerks, they can be wrong, and they can get tunnel vision. Even the most talented of LE officers can be susceptible to getting it wrong. Thats why there has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone of a crime for which they are accused.

As websleuthers we know the basics of an investigation. We know that when harm befalls someone the first persons to be looked at are those closest to the victim (barring any obvious evidence that pointed directly to a perp). IMO, because they are the most likely to do someone harm. Statistics and all... But to move on to the next layer of possible suspects cops tend to want to verify the family's whereabouts, their aliby, etc... What I think has happened here is that they can't get past TH because 1) There is no definative proof of where she was immediately following Kyron's last known sighting (which could happen to any of us), and 2) because cops have concentrated on her for so long they have developed tunnel vision. Add to that an alleged MFH plot and that tunnel vision has morphed into a perceived truth. However, I don't think there is any evidence to support their suspicions, just as there is no evidence to clear TH at this point. They are stuck.

If you take into consideration that most of us respect the authority of our law enforcement officers, the fact that one of the victims in this case is married to a detective, and that a precious child is missing you might see what I see. Most of us don't have the first clue about how to handle situations like this (in fact we must involve LE because they are the authority when a crime happens), so we look toward LE to be our guide. We don't imagine that they could be wrong. We don't question them. We hang on their every word because its the only hope there is of getting the missing child back. So that makes people vulnerable to be used by cops with tunnel vision to put pressure on their suspect. If the cops are right they are geniuses, if they are wrong they're just doing their job and TH was just collateral damage.
 
sorrell - I asked AZ lawyer if Kaine could give permission to LE for search of house, cars, land, and cell phones if they were in his name. The response was yes and a warrant wouldn't be needed. Don't know if cell phones are in Kaine's name, but if they are LE wouldn't need a warrant if given permission by Kaine. moo

Nope, a warrent would be needed. The cell phone records don't belong to the individual, they belong to the cell phone company. Companies don't give out records without all the i's dotted and all the t's crossed.
 
If the cops are right they are geniuses, if they are wrong they're just doing their job and TH was just collateral damage.

People make themselves collateral damage. No matter what you might have to hide, if you have any sense at all you're going to give it up if you're faced with something far worse. She's not under the bus by accident or by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. She's under the bus because she couldn't come up with a plausible timeline, and her story didn't stand up. It also doesn't help that she was the last person known to see him.

Maybe she thought they'd mark him present after seeing him there, and nobody would be able to place just when he went missing. That way she wouldn't have to come up with such a wide timeline.

The easiest way to make sure you never fall under the bus is to lead an upstanding life.
 
People make themselves collateral damage. No matter what you might have to hide, if you have any sense at all you're going to give it up if you're faced with something far worse. She's not under the bus by accident or by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. She's under the bus because she couldn't come up with a plausible timeline, and her story didn't stand up. It also doesn't help that she was the last person known to see him.

Maybe she thought they'd mark him present after seeing him there, and nobody would be able to place just when he went missing. That way she wouldn't have to come up with such a wide timeline.

The easiest way to make sure you never fall under the bus is to lead an upstanding life.


I understand why you feel this way but really there is nothing to back it up. We do not know what timeline TH gave, and we don't have any real evidence that she has led anything but an upstanding life. Just because the police suspect her doesn't mean they are right.
 
If the investigators find out that someone who lies about their whereabouts and engaged in other hinky behaviors turns out to be guilty I don't think it's an indicator of genius on their part necessarily, maybe just oldfashioned police work and paying attention.
 
This is the thread that will keep coming back until we understand. TMH fits into this story of Kyron missing like the puzzle piece you were looking for. I don't even want to believe the woman in the holiday photo with her husband and the children was plotting to kill him, or take his child, but that is an actual part of this case now.

Now, DY comes out with the impression TMH lies, and has lied as far as DY's concerned for 7 years. Add that tidbit to the other inconsistencies and you have to keep looking at TMH.

IMO, she is either covering someone else involved, or she is covering up something, or she is covering up what she did, but it is called covering up a crime.

Please, listen Terri - Talk now if you're going to talk at all. Do the right thing NOW.

I, too, am starting to worry she may be pushed to thoughts of suicide with all the mud being slung at her but it is frustration that Kyron is still out there. I think many of us can understand if TMH has been hormonally unbalanced, and did something awful, but the longer this goes on with Kyron still missing it becomes harder for people to relate to TMH as anything but guilty of something.
 
If the investigators find out that someone who lies about their whereabouts and engaged in other hinky behaviors turns out to be guilty I don't think it's an indicator of genius on their part necessarily, maybe just oldfashioned police work and paying attention.

Do you know she lied about her whereabouts? From what I understand there is an unsubstantiated claim that her cell phone ping'ed off a tower that would indicate she was on Sauvie Island shortly after she last saw Kyron. Thats hardly proof, its a rumor. Besides that the locals have said that Sauvie Island isn't too far away so I personally don't find it odd that her cell would ping on a tower near there at all. Cell companies don't built out capacity to handle every single call that might hit a tower. They build out capacity based on expected average traffic. (Thats why on Mother's day you might get a recording saying all circuits are busy to try your call again later.) It is possible that a cell signal might be refused by one tower for whatever reason so it jumps to the next one (sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and a call is dropped). If we were talking about Sauvie Island being 50-100 miles away I'd find it odd that her cell may have ping'ed there but we're talking about 5-10 miles so I don't think it proves she lied.
 
I believe KH and TH absolutely believe she is guilty. But I think KH and DY believe that because the police told them that THEY think she is guilty.

I have a lot of cops on my family. One a sheriff, patrol officers, detectives, and even MP. I can say without a doubt that they are good people, but they are just people. All police are just people. People are fallible. Policemen can "get a feeling" someone is guilty, they can be prideful and ignore anything that goes against what they think happened, they can be jerks, they can be wrong, and they can get tunnel vision. Even the most talented of LE officers can be susceptible to getting it wrong. Thats why there has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone of a crime for which they are accused.

As websleuthers we know the basics of an investigation. We know that when harm befalls someone the first persons to be looked at are those closest to the victim (barring any obvious evidence that pointed directly to a perp). IMO, because they are the most likely to do someone harm. Statistics and all... But to move on to the next layer of possible suspects cops tend to want to verify the family's whereabouts, their aliby, etc... What I think has happened here is that they can't get past TH because 1) There is no definative proof of where she was immediately following Kyron's last known sighting (which could happen to any of us), and 2) because cops have concentrated on her for so long they have developed tunnel vision. Add to that an alleged MFH plot and that tunnel vision has morphed into a perceived truth. However, I don't think there is any evidence to support their suspicions, just as there is no evidence to clear TH at this point. They are stuck.

If you take into consideration that most of us respect the authority of our law enforcement officers, the fact that one of the victims in this case is married to a detective, and that a precious child is missing you might see what I see. Most of us don't have the first clue about how to handle situations like this (in fact we must involve LE because they are the authority when a crime happens), so we look toward LE to be our guide. We don't imagine that they could be wrong. We don't question them. We hang on their every word because its the only hope there is of getting the missing child back. So that makes people vulnerable to be used by cops with tunnel vision to put pressure on their suspect. If the cops are right they are geniuses, if they are wrong they're just doing their job and TH was just collateral damage.

Excellent post, so I'm quoting it in its entirety. This is exactly why I try very hard to remain skeptical about everything. If it's the right theory, nothing will be able to shake it. Whereas, if we don't test the theory adequately, what on earth are we gaining? And we may never discover it if we are not on the right track. In other words, I think the most helpful thing we can do is question.
 
Do you know she lied about her whereabouts? From what I understand there is an unsubstantiated claim that her cell phone ping'ed off a tower that would indicate she was on Sauvie Island shortly after she last saw Kyron. Thats hardly proof, its a rumor. Besides that the locals have said that Sauvie Island isn't too far away so I personally don't find it odd that her cell would ping on a tower near there at all. Cell companies don't built out capacity to handle every single call that might hit a tower. They build out capacity based on expected average traffic. (Thats why on Mother's day you might get a recording saying all circuits are busy to try your call again later.) It is possible that a cell signal might be refused by one tower for whatever reason so it jumps to the next one (sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and a call is dropped). If we were talking about Sauvie Island being 50-100 miles away I'd find it odd that her cell may have ping'ed there but we're talking about 5-10 miles so I don't think it proves she lied.

Personally, I don't know that she even exists, I just have to go by the reports, such as these:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzsDcA_GJY&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

We haven't seen all the evidence that LE has and I doubt we ever will before the trial, if any, but IMO there are enough indicators to worry.

I like the principle of Occam's Razor, and it requires less mental acrobatics for me to explain why Terri might have lied about her whereabouts than to explain why DY and KH lied about her lying and why people in the media who don't even know her make up these lies about her lying and why LE seems to have fixated on her if there is no factual reason to think she lied.
 
-snipped-

We haven't seen all the evidence that LE has and I doubt we ever will before the trial, if any, but IMO there are enough indicators to worry.

I like the principle of Occam's Razor, and it requires less mental acrobatics for me to explain why Terri might have lied about her whereabouts than to explain why DY and KH lied about her lying and why people in the media who don't even know her make up these lies about her lying and why LE seems to have fixated on her if there is no factual reason to think she lied.


Of course there is reason to worry, but at this point based upon what we know there is no reason to accuse. (Notice how police haven't accused her?) Again, I think KH and DY truly believe she is guilty bacause of what they have been told and by whom it was that told them. So they could be wrong and still not be lying.
 
Clearly... we are not the people who have access to all the information and who decide when there is enough to press the charges and go to the trial... and until then we won't know for sure. Everybody who was eventually charged and convicted of a crime was innocent until proven guilty up until that point. But they might have been lying.

It is interesting to me that the family members who are in the position to know more than we do seem to be very convinced that she's been lying, based on many different reasons.

It is possible that everybody who says she's lying is either trying to frame her, seriously misinformed or grossly incompetent and blind. But then again she might be lying.
 
Frankly, if I took a polygraph and did not do well on it knowing I was innocent, I would probably tell others close to me too. I would be confused and upset that my answers (or an answer) were showing up as deceptive. Would it have been better if she never told the family that she didn't pass and they only found out secondhand through LE or the media? I don't get it.

Obviously, ideally, she would have passed the LD with so called "flying colors" like the others claim. But, the fact that a person like Ted Bundy and so many others like him can pass a polygraph should give people pause when interpreting failed polygraphs.

This post is in regards to part of the discussion a page or so back, not the posts directly above, sorry I'm just catching up now.
 
The fact that people like Ted Bundy can pass the polygraph should give people pause when interpreting passed polygraphs, IMO.
 
The polygraph doesn't actually measure truth or untruth--it measures someone's autonomic system reactions to questions they are asked as well as the answers they then give. Changes in blood pressure, breathing, galvanic skin response (i.e. sweat), and heartbeat are what's measured.

If physical reactions change in response a person's anticipated answer to a question, that will occur. In fact it always occurs, but it depends on how much it changes in relation to a baseline measurement taken by asking the person standard questions like their name, their occupation, their date of birth.

A person could react on questions even if they're telling the truth or, alternatively, they could say they're involved in a crime and they're not involved and the LDT shows 'deception.' (In essence, they'd be lying about being guilty of something they are not guilty of at all...like people who like to confess to crimes they didn't commit). Or, someone could truly believe they are innocent of something (but not actually be innocent), and the LDT will not show they are being deceptive because they don't have the physical changes that indicate deception. It's really more about a person's emotional state because emotions cause physical changes.

It's all about the formulation of the question, the anticipation of it, and the answer to cause the physical changes in a person and then the interpretation of the physical response to each question.

It's not reliable enough to be legally used, but LE uses it to see if someone is willing to take it because that alone can give them some clues about a person's state of mind.
 
STOP and think about your posts. Do not direct your posts toward a poster. Address the post and don't direct your response to the poster.

DO YOU know
How do you know that

Those sorts of posts are not within TOS.
 
My point was that if guilty people can pass it, then surely innocent people can fail one. Also, apparently, she (TMH) would have been judged whether she told them directly (which she did) or not.
 
People make themselves collateral damage. No matter what you might have to hide, if you have any sense at all you're going to give it up if you're faced with something far worse. She's not under the bus by accident or by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. She's under the bus because she couldn't come up with a plausible timeline, and her story didn't stand up. It also doesn't help that she was the last person known to see him.

Maybe she thought they'd mark him present after seeing him there, and nobody would be able to place just when he went missing. That way she wouldn't have to come up with such a wide timeline.

The easiest way to make sure you never fall under the bus is to lead an upstanding life.


I was just thinking about those aspects. LE sent out questionaires with the stepmom's photo & the vehicle similar to hers. She was the last known person with Kyron and her story does not match her cell phone records.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20395256,00.html
Report: Stepmom Investigated in Missing Oregon Boy Case

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/17/sources-search-for-kyron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/
 
Sources: Search for Kyron Horman Focuses on Step-Mom, Cell Records

And as searchers comb the island, law-enforcement officials say the investigation is increasingly focusing on the step-mother, because of problems with her account of what she was doing the day Kyron went missing.
 
According to Kaine on Thurs. she only flunked on a specific area.
 
My point was that if guilty people can pass it, then surely innocent people can fail one. Also, apparently, she (TMH) would have been judged whether she told them directly (which she did) or not.

Yes but it's also in the news that Terri walked out even before they started asking questions. Before they even hooked her up. Then walked out of a 3rd test. http://www.truthorlie.com/admissible.html Some interesting info about admissibility of polygrahps. This says they're sometimes admitted in some jurisdictions/states. I didn't know that.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/09/kaine-horman-kyrons-stepmom-walked-out-on-polygraph/

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night
 
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