If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

[human]

Most would... yes. But what if Terri believes that sooner or later the truth will come out and she will still get to keep her little secret? What if she really had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance, but can't prove it because it would reveal something she does not want Kaine or anyone else to know? Or what if she is protecting someone else? Someone she loves more than herself?

Unless they have a lot more on her than they've released so far, then she can afford to keep her silence for awhile longer, because I don't see the proof that she did anything to or with Kyron. It's got to be more than cell phone pings and her lying about where she was and the LDT's. That alone will not convict her.

Also... regarding circumstantial evidence... everything is circumstantial except a confession or an eyewitness to the crime, and so far we don't have either one.

I keep asking, what could be worse than what the public thinks that she might have done regarding Kyron?

It must be a doozie if she has a reason for keeping silent.

 

[human]

What if the scenario was that TMH killed Kyron in the parking lot at school, placed his body in the footwell of the truck, disposed of his body, then went shopping to establish an alibi? A witness who saw her driving away from the school wouldn't see Kyron. Security surveillance tapes would show her alone or with baby K but no Kyron.

I'm not saying that is how she did it, I'm just trying to point out possible flaws in witness testimony or surveillance tapes.

I do agree that if Kyron is spotted in any of those surveillance tapes, then TMH is clearly guilty of causing his disappearance.

if he was dead in the truck, at least there would be some evidence of that. So I don't think that's possible.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Where'd they dig up the landscaper witness if they're all out to get Terri just because? That's no small matter testifying against her in court and purjuring. Wonder who paid him to do that & how much? That's a thick plot against the only adult last with the child who's stories don't jibe if news reports are true.

SBM

The problem with the landscaper is that he did not come forward at the time of the alleged solicitation for murder, in late 2009. He came forward after LE contacted him.

Now, maybe he thought TMH was joking at the time but Kyron's disappearance casts a different light on such jokes.

Or maybe he has some reason to want to cooperate with LE beyond the usual wanting to help. If he were committing some unrelated offence, he may be hoping for leniency from LE if he made allegations against someone who is already widely regarded as a suspect.

So far as I know, there are only three things known about this man: he is a man, he is a landscaper (whatever that means) and he did some work on the Horman property. That doesn't give me enough information to judge his credibility as a witness.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have followed this case all the way through, probably because I live in Illinois. Never have I shed so many tears in a case as this one. I had tears just reading your comment!

Kevin and his wife are so endearing, she never once thought her husband was guilty. As people became more convinced Kevin was guilty, hate was spewed his way.

And the hate goes on! I continue to hear people tell of his guilt, only now they are convinced Kevin was a crafty accomplice to the sex offender who raped and murdered his 3yo daughter.

Illinois has 40,000 unprocessed rape kits for identification of DNA. Certainly not an excuse in Kevin's case because as you say, fingerprints on the screen door and blood soaked gym shoes with his name were never processed. Kevin was charged with 1st degree murder and thank goodness finally released.

A case like this shows how easy innocence can be turned into guilt by LE and public opinion. moo

BBM

Sounds like some of the people commenting on the Elizabeth Smart case. Despite her testimony and the testimony of one of her kidnappers, there are people who persist in believing that her father and/or uncle were complicit in her disappearance.

It is very puzzling to me, to say the least.

One of the worst things I've ever seen associated with an investigation of murder was the tape of Riley Fox's six year old brother being interrogated. That child was so distressed and yet so brave, it made me feel physically nauseous by the end of the clip I saw. And I know that clip was only part of the entire interrogation.

Talk about secondary wounding.

 

[cypress]

I keep asking, what could be worse than what the public thinks that she might have done regarding Kyron?

It must be a doozie if she has a reason for keeping silent.

Let's say Terri was having an affair. Obviously, she wouldn't want anyone to know about it, and if she's innocent, she could've easily convinced herself that an affair had no bearing on the search for Kyron. Maybe she left Kyron at school exactly as she said she did, went to meet her lover, had a little truck sex, hit the gym, picked up the baby, went home, fed the baby some lunch, sat down at the computer, and Kaine walked in from work.

Obviously, given that Kaine has left her and taken the baby, the actual affair is not as big of a deal; however, the lie is still a huge deal because now she stands accused. If she's innocent, I don't think she's withholding the truth because it has any bearing on Kyron's case or because she's afraid of LE finding out whatever it is, I think she's afraid the lie will solidify LE's assertion that she harmed Kyron. It's much more about protecting the lie than protecting whatever it is she lied about.

Also, and I have little to back it up, but I've always felt strongly that she didn't fail the polygraph question/questions related directly to Kyron -- this makes sense to me based on LE's, DY's, and KH's continued assertion that Kyron is alive (if Terri failed this portion of the test, I don't think they'd so vocally state that he is alive), and it also makes sense because the suspicion surrounding Terri involving LE leaks and DY's statements involve where she was that day. I don't believe Terri refused to give an account of where she was that day, I do, however, believe it differs from circumstantial evidence they've collected, although for whatever reason I believe even the evidence (re: the pings) leave room for doubt. Maybe it is within a certain range but barely.

As someone else said in another thread, I believe LE is focused on her because they can't clear her. I believe she probably is acting suspiciously, but the reasons for that are debatable -- maybe she's on anti-depressants, maybe she feels backed into a corner, maybe she was having an affair and she's trying to protect her lie, etc.

 

[KeyboardCat]

If Terri didn't do it...

Why would she lie about her whereabouts that day?
Why would she refuse polygraphs/fail one/walk out of one
Why would she be on facebook that evening he was missing and act as if everything was
fine?
Why would Denise Young say she felt Terri was involved at the moment she heard the
news?
Why wouldn't Terri call Denise herself and inform her instead of letting the school notify
her?
Why would she have tried to have her husband murdered?
Why would she lawyer up?
Why would law enforcement state publicly that there was no danger to other children in
the community?

and lastly

HOW ON EARTH could she stare blankly and have no reaction to the question "Where is Kyron?"

I realize that list is incomplete, as this is all we have to go on in this very tight lipped investigation. And I realize that on an individual basis, many of those questions can be explained away. But its the totality of the questions that lead to one conclusion: Something is very wrong here.

I would like to preemptively state that neither I, nor anyone else I am aware of is trying or advocating in any way that Terri Horman be sentenced and punished according to our laws before a verdict is rendered. Therefore, I am not circumventing in any way her presumed innocence before a court of law states otherwise. So yes, she is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. And what I write is not in any way negating that, nor denying her that right.

 

[sorrell skye]

Let's say Terri was having an affair. Obviously, she wouldn't want anyone to know about it, and if she's innocent, she could've easily convinced herself that an affair had no bearing on the search for Kyron. Maybe she left Kyron at school exactly as she said she did, went to meet her lover, had a little truck sex, hit the gym, picked up the baby, went home, fed the baby some lunch, sat down at the computer, and Kaine walked in from work.

Obviously, given that Kaine has left her and taken the baby, the actual affair is not as big of a deal; however, the lie is still a huge deal because now she stands accused. If she's innocent, I don't think she's withholding the truth because it has any bearing on Kyron's case or because she's afraid of LE finding out whatever it is, I think she's afraid the lie will solidify LE's assertion that she harmed Kyron. It's much more about protecting the lie than protecting whatever it is she lied about.

Also, and I have little to back it up, but I've always felt strongly that she didn't fail the polygraph question/questions related directly to Kyron -- this makes sense to me based on LE's, DY's, and KH's continued assertion that Kyron is alive (if Terri failed this portion of the test, I don't think they'd so vocally state that he is alive), and it also makes sense because the suspicion surrounding Terri involving LE leaks and DY's statements involve where she was that day. I don't believe Terri refused to give an account of where she was that day, I do, however, believe it differs from circumstantial evidence they've collected, although for whatever reason I believe even the evidence (re: the pings) leave room for doubt. Maybe it is within a certain range but barely.

As someone else said in another thread, I believe LE is focused on her because they can't clear her. I believe she probably is acting suspiciously, but the reasons for that are debatable -- maybe she's on anti-depressants, maybe she feels backed into a corner, maybe she was having an affair and she's trying to protect her lie, etc.

bbm

I agree. I suspect the question(s) she failed had nothing to do with any knowledge she may possess regarding Kyron's disappearance, but were instead related to extraneous information - such as lifestyle choices, who she may or may not have been in contact with in the days, weeks, or months preceding June 4th. MOO

 

[cypress]

If Terri didn't do it...

Why would she lie about her whereabouts that day?

We are looking at this in retrospect, though. People do dumb, stupid things. I love the bumper sticker that reads "You can't fix stupid."

If she was having an affair or hooked on meth or going to buy weed and she didn't owe her dealer any money, then at the time, she may have felt compelled to lie to protect a secret, honestly believing it had no bearing on Kyron's disappearance.

Now, the nature of the secret may not be as devastating to her life as she once believed it would be but, IMHO, it's not about the secret anymore. It's about the lie. Especially if she's innocent, the lie casts into doubt all the truths.

Why would she refuse polygraphs/fail one/walk out of one

I'm still confused about what happened with the polygraphs, but this could be due to any number of reasons. The reports seem to agree that she failed a specific portion, either a question, or a specific set of questions. DY and KH have vocally stated that Terri failed her polygraphs, but they've also vocally stated that they believe Kyron is alive. If Terri had knowledge of his death, and she failed that portion of the polygraph, I don't believe Kyron's bio parents would continue to assert that he is alive. Also, DY's and KH's belief that Terri had an accomplice and their comments about her whereabouts that day, lead me to believe that's the portion of the test Terri failed.

In my mind, I believe all the confusion, lies, and evidence is about where Terri was that morning, not necessarily about whether or not she harmed Kyron. If she did, the the lie detector tests showed it, I believe DY and KH's pressers would give off a different tone.

Anyway, I believe when Terri reached those questions in her polygraph, she may have either anticipated failure or was somehow signaled failure, and she walked out for whatever reason.

Why would she be on facebook that evening he was missing and act as if everything was
fine?

It's difficult to read tone and emotions over the Internet. IMHO, it's impossible to know how she felt while posting on the 'net.

Why would Denise Young say she felt Terri was involved at the moment she heard the
news?

When I hear this, I always come back to, "But you let this woman raise your child for all these years..."

Why wouldn't Terri call Denise herself and inform her instead of letting the school notify
her?

She could've been calling police or someone locally -- it seems like there was a lot going on simultaneously, and LE requested someone go back to the house.

Why would she have tried to have her husband murdered?

LE have a landscaper that never came forward on this information. He only relayed this information after LE contacted him; we don't know his background, his motivation, or under what conditions he relayed this story. There is, obviously, no other evidence of this plot or Terri would be in jail. Why tell now?

Why would she lawyer up?

She only lawyered up after a botched sting, her husband left her, filed a RO against her, and took her daughter. After all that, I think she finally figured out LE were no longer "on her side."

Why would law enforcement state publicly that there was no danger to other children in
the community?

Perhaps it's what they believe.

and lastly

HOW ON EARTH could she stare blankly and have no reaction to the question "Where is Kyron?"

Perhaps her lawyer told her to look down and say nothing if approached by a reporter.

I realize that list is incomplete, as this is all we have to go on in this very tight lipped investigation. And I realize that on and individual basis, many of those questions can be explained away. But its the totality of the questions that lead to one conclusion: Something is very wrong here.

I would like to preemptively state that neither I, nor anyone else I am aware of is trying or advocating in anyway that Terri Horman be sentenced and punished according to our laws before a verdict is rendered. Therefore, I am not circumventing in any way her presumed innocence before a court of law states otherwise. So yes, she is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. And what I write is not in any way negating that, nor denying her that right.

Based on what we have, I believe it could go either way -- her being on anti-depressants could explain away half the behavior many see as problematic, and her having an affair, and lying about it, could explain the rest, IMHO. Or she could be guilty.

 

[Emeralgem]

I keep asking, what could be worse than what the public thinks that she might have done regarding Kyron?

It must be a doozie if she has a reason for keeping silent.

I would say what she may have actually done regarding Kyron is far worse than what the public thinks.....However, IMHO she seems divorced from all reality...And to be honest I sincerely doubt she would even care IF people knew what she had done to Kyron IF she thought for a second she wouldn't have to suffer any negative consequences for her actions.
Thus far she has proven she isn't even capable of play acting the part of a grieving stepmother..It's apparent her ONLY concern is herself....Narcissism run amok..JMO

 

[wondering1]

The info about the polys & which one she "failed" and which one she walked out on changes so often that I'm completely confused.

According to the above link, KH is now saying that TH not only walked out on the 2nd poly, but also walked out on the 3rd one. ??!!

IIRC, in the past few days, KH was quoted in the WW as saying that she failed the 1st one, walked out on the 2nd one (either halfway through or before she was even hooked up to the machine - both scenarios were reported), and then she failed the 3rd one.

I know that's what he was reported as saying because I read it, and there was much discussion about it here.

Now the story has changed once again to say that she walked out on the 3rd one.

I'm beginning to feel as if I'm reading George Orwell's 1984.

Seriously, IDK why there is so much conflicting reporting about the 3 polys.

Oy...I just spent the better part of an hour looking for the interview I KNOW I saw. Here's what I found, which, if I'm remembering correctly if at least part of the video I'm thinking of. I remembered that it involved this reporter, but I think there is a longer version.

Here he says she completed part of one, then walked out. Then she waited over a week to take a *second* one...so I take this to mean that she partially completed the *first* one. This is also consistent with the voiceover wrt to reference to poly's taken "early on" and a "second chance."

This vid doesn't talk about the third. But I know it's out there, and I think maybe in the unedited version of this video. Did I say Oy?

I think the second one is the one she wasn't even hooked up for and the third she failed. jmorecollection

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6661870n&tag=related;photovideo

 

[Mylou]

How does the media informing the public that TH is a liar, help in finding Kyron?

What is the goal in informing the public that she has lied?

Why do the public need to know all of TH's dirty laundry ?


TH has not been named a suspect or a person of interest.


When and If TH speaks now, who will believe anything she says?

And why do you think NO ONE will believe anything she says NOW?

 

[Calliope]

That's why I posted the link so people can read it. I think that link's been posted quite a few times in the case discussion. I didn't want to copy & paste too much due to TOS, but if you'll notice in the linked article it says she was never hooked up for the 1st one, walked out before answering any questions on the 2nd one and walked out on the 3rd one.

1st one never hooked up - walked out before hooked up
2nd one - walked out before questions began
3rd one - walked out

ETA: In the above link.

So that means she only took one poly.

 

[gwenabob]

So that means she only took one poly.

No. That account you are quoting is incorrect.

She took one. Failed. Complained to friends and family loud and long about failing.

Went to take # 2 and left before they started asking questions.

Tried to get out of # 3 by putting LE off over and over, and after ten days, finally took # 3 and walked out partway through.

1 failed
2 never started
3 half done and failed

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

 

[wondering1]

So that means she only took one poly.

no...KH says in the interview I posted, that she partially completed the first. He also has stated that she went on and on about failing it to the family, friends and relatives. The second one, many days later, is the one she walked out of (as was rumored at the time), and the third, she failed.

 

[cypress]

So that means she only took one poly.

But she failed two? :waitasec:

 

[wondering1]

But she failed two? :waitasec:

the first partial poly, and the third.

 

[Calliope]

No. That account you are quoting is incorrect.

She took one. Failed. Complained to friends and family loud and long about failing.

Went to take # 2 and left before they started asking questions.

Tried to get out of # 3 by putting LE off over and over, and after ten days, finally took # 3 and walked out partway through.

1 failed
2 never started
3 half done and failed

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

Ok, from your link:

He says she also failed two polygraphs and walked out of a third.

But, when he details what happened during those tests:

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

That means she didn't take the test.

So we're now down to two.

Regarding the first one:

He said the first time Terri Moulton Horman took a polygraph she was “very vocal” among friends and family that she’d failed.

Now we already know there was no second poly. (not being connected to the machine + no questions = no polygraph)

The "third" test (which is in reality the second poly):

Around 10 days later, she finally agreed to sit down again for a lie detector. Once again, he says, she failed.

So as far as we know then, there were only two polys administered to Terri, and she failed both.

 

[gwenabob]

the first partial poly, and the third.

OK, I just listened to the taped recording of Kaine explaining the LDTs.

This is what he said:

TH took first test completely within a couple days of Kyron's disappearance. She failed. Complained to family and friends.

Went back 2 or 3 days later for 2nd test. Left before she was hooked up. No questions were asked.

Put off another try for 10 days, then finally broke down and took the test. Failed. Kaine did not ever say she walked out of this test.

So, she took two complete tests and failed them both. Walked out of one test before she was hooked up.

Listen to the recording here:
http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

 

[gwenabob]

Ok, from your link:



But, when he details what happened during those tests:



That means she didn't take the test.

So we're now down to two.

Regarding the first one:



Now we already know there was no second poly. (not being connected to the machine + no questions = no polygraph)

The "third" test (which is in reality the second poly):



So as far as we know then, there were only two polys administered to Terri, and she failed both.

Right.

 

[Calliope]

no...KH says in the interview I posted, that she partially completed the first. He also has stated that she went on and on about failing it to the family, friends and relatives. The second one, many days later, is the one she walked out of (as was rumored at the time), and the third, she failed.

Ok. She took two polys, failing both. According to Kaine.