If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

[cluciano63]

I don't think we have ever heard anything from LE about Terri being the focus, other than when Gates stated that she was the last person to see Kyron. Obviously she is the focus, but I hope they are seriously looking other avenues and not just trying to shore up a case against Terri, unless they have more than what they have revealed. I'm not sure how they will get enough to charge her, though, as I don't see a confession coming anytime soon. And I have a feeling they don't have much more than suspcions at this point.

 

[southern_scout]

It's easy to look backward and find all of someone's faults when you are forced into a situation where you have to look for them. I agree, if she was truly a horrible monster of a mother, it sure doesn't make sense that KH would have not only recently just had a child with her, but allowed her to be the primary caregiver for his son. I think it's easy to pick someone apart, especially someone you know so intimately, and make the sum of their faults add up to create a suspect, especially when there isn't much evidence to go on. If LE has pushed "TH did this, help us figure out why and how" at them this entire time, it stands to reason that eventually they would be able to believe she did.

I am still on the fence. I do believe that KH and DY believe TH had something to do with Kyron's disappearance, but I am not convinced that there is any fact behind it. Until we hear more or have a confession or some kind of solid evidence, everyone is still suspect in my mind.

 

[Donjeta]

you see this is the whole problem. 'they know this about terri, they could see her doing this' is essentially the gist.

yet kaine willingly let her be a caretaker for not only kyron but a tiny infant.

this whole thing stinks.

Well, I don't think they knew this about Terri, "this" being that she would one day be suspected of being responsible for Kyron missing. Of course neither of them would ever have let Kyron out of their sight if they'd known.

Rather I think they have now realized in hindsight that lots of things that they perhaps felt concerned or angry about at the time or that they wanted to see in the best light were in fact warning signs.

 

[kbl8201]

i dont know. i still wont be shocked if this whole thing is a set up and someone (not naming names) turns out to have been a pretty good con man

 

[southern_scout]

Or, again, you can use "hindsight" to create motive or ability to believe someone committed a crime when you have absolutely nothing else to go on. When everyone around you, including the people who are investigating this case, are planting the seeds of doubt about a person in your mind, it's not too hard to use their flaws to make those seeds grow and grow. We haven't seen any real evidence that TH did something with Kyron. If there was any concrete, admissible evidence, police would have arrested her. Until then, DY and KH's feelings are just feelings, and you can't convict someone because of your feelings about them.

 

[Chili Fries]

If there was any concrete, admissible evidence, police would have arrested her.

I don't agree with this. They could have strong, admissible evidence but feel like it's not enough for a sure conviction, or feel like a stronger case can be built if they keep at it. They are trying to build a case after all and only have one chance to try her for Kyron's disappearance. At some point they'll either acquire a strong enough case (with multiple lines of evidence), or have to make the tough decision to go with what they have or let it fall toward cold case territory.

 

[mrsjonnob]

I don't agree with this. They could have strong, admissible evidence but feel like it's not enough for a sure conviction, or feel like a stronger case can be built if they keep at it. They are trying to build a case after all and only have one chance to try her for Kyron's disappearance. At some point they'll either acquire a strong enough case (with multiple lines of evidence), or have to make the tough decision to go with what they have or let it fall toward cold case territory.

I think LE is taking a huge risk by waiting on an arrest. If Terri does have a form of mental illness or even if she doesn't, the stress of her world falling apart may drive her to do something harmful to herself and if that happens, they may never know what happened to Kyron.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

It was due to yesterday's presser and interviews since. We had two threads running with the same discussion.

help! i can't find the other thread.

 

[southern_scout]

Point taken, I agree. They are building a case, and that's what I mean by strong evidence. Something that can be used to convict. What we've been given so far by non-LE (polygraphs and cell phone pings) definitely isn't enough. The hit isn't enough. It takes a monumental amount of evidence to convict, especially without Kyron (be he alive or not). I still don't think Kaine and DY's statement that "they know she is lying" means a whole lot at this point, nor do I totally buy the MFH gardener thing.

 

[gardeness]

I often wonder if TH is innocent and what this may do to her and her future. It isn't unheard of for LE to focus on one suspect to the exclusion of others and find out they have been wrong. I have been wrong before on some of these cases. There was a woman that was murdered at her home and her husband came home and found her. Same old story. I was convinced the husband did it. Turned out a teen age neighbor boy killed her. Good thing it was solved fast and LE didn't seem to have their sights on the husband other then the routine questions but if it had been up to me he would have gone to jail. I think every wife that is killed is killed by her husband if he is in close proximity. Every child that is killed is killed by a parent or step parent or boy/girl friend. And sometimes it's just a stranger like little Alisa. It's hard not to get jaded. I'm only going with what I've heard and it seems pretty damning. Last person to be seen with, failed LDTs and cell phone pings put her somewhere where she denies being. Probably other parts of her alibi can't be confirmed. I don't put much stock in the murder for hire plot. They kind of bungled that one and we may never know.
The fact is even with what we know she could have perfectly good explanaions and she may not have done it. Even though LE doesn't seem to have been pointed in any other directions there is still that possibility that Kyron reallly did wander off or some lucky perp caught him at the exact right time. I think LE is hoping to find a body on Sauvie Island because that would be their smoking gun. What if Terri stopped there but took him somewhere else, somewhere that a cell phone ping wouldn't stand out? What if he is never found? We will never know the honest truth and Terri live with all this hanging over her because she had the misfortune of having last seen him. I really hope LE has some aces up their sleeves because right now their hand sucks.

I don't understand how the cell phone pings work, but to me, the Sauvie Island information would be the perfect set-up for another perp--they could dump his body and Terri would be blamed...

 

[gardeness]

First off, this is a tough question to answer because we don't know the extent of the evidence LE has which points to Terri.

But the most important clues we know are the cell pings and lie detector tests. The cell pings are probably a very crucial piece of evidence. There are no towers on Sauvie Island but there are many surrounding it, especially to the east and southeast. The more towers that receive a ping from a phone, the more accurately the location of the phone can be pinpointed. The accuracy of the location can be improved even more depending on the type of antenna a tower has. So the cell phone ping data can be analyzed to determine it's accuracy. If her phone pinged off more than 3 or 4 towers they can probably group the pings from different sets of towers to check and re-check the location given by the results from the full set of tower pings.

So...LE probably have an idea of how accurate the cellphone ping data. If the data is only marginally accurate then they could be giving it too much weight. I think that is not likely given the amount of towers in the area and the lay of the land but I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if some of the cell ping data from that day is missing (in the Mackenzie Cowell case unfortunately the phone company lost some crucial data from the day Mackenzie went missing).

And we know that polygraphs are not scientifically sound enough to be permissible in court. I'm sure Terri walking out of the first polygraph (as Kaine said in an interview aired this morning) didn't help her case but maybe she just couldn't take the pressure of being suspected. What about her not telling the truth about what she did the day she went missing? We don't know how incomplete or unrealistic her story is. Maybe it's an obvious load of crap or maybe it's more plausible but just doesn't fit what LE thinks is evidence to the contrary.

I'm pretty confident that LE has good reason to suspect her but I don't think it's too difficult to come up with reasons why they could be jumping the gun, at least from our view as investigation outsiders.

BBM

Okay--that shakes the fence I'm on...

 

[Skully]

The gardener saying Terri tried to have her husband killed. That was the clincher; someone who would do that would definitely hurt or hide a child.

But I am not convinced about this gardener. Why wouldn't he have gone to the police immediately? Why, after Kyron went missing, did he not come forward but have to be found and questioned instead?

Why the 911 calls IMMEDIATELY when he came to talk to her? Is that what someone would do if she really did ask him to kill her husband?

The biggest question for me about the hit is; why do you ask a gardener to kill your husband? What made her think this guy would kill somebody? Something made her ask this particular guy if that is true. And is she couldn't kill Kaine, how do we all believe she killed a little boy? Maybe she had someone come in and take him, IDK, but lots of this doesn't add up.

 

[Aedrys]

i dont know. i still wont be shocked if this whole thing is a set up and someone (not naming names) turns out to have been a pretty good con man

Let me guess, KH did this? Why is TH so innocent but KH so guilty? I just don't understand it. There's all this upset over TH and she be might be innocent, so let's blame KH and say he's a con man? Not very mature there. You can't be upset about us talking about TH and then suggest, without ANY proof that KH is the guilty one here. That's not applying the same standards to everyone in this case.

And we don't know what the police have. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE. We can speculate all we want, but the only people who KNOW what the police have is the police, and possibly KH, DY, and TY. For anyone to say they obviously don't have enough is erroneous (responding to more than one post here). How can we can possibly say whether they have enough or not when we don't know what they have? We don't know what they are investigating, who they are investigating other than Terri, what evidence they are looking at, and so on. All we KNOW is from the pressers, and what KH, and DY tell us. And what they have told, all they have told us, all the information that has come out does not have to do with KH, does not have to do with DY, does not have to do with TY, or anyone else BUT TH. No, the police have not named TH or arrested her, but that doesn't mean that they don't have anything either.

All we do know is about ONE PERSON: TH. It's TH we keeping hearing about. It's TH who saw Kyron last at school. It's TH who's been acting weird since the beginning. It's TH who has or had PPD and that may have contributed. It's TH who is lying and not cooperating with police. It's TH who failed two polygraph tests.

So we should ignore logic and reason and just believe she's not guilty and KH is a con man? What PROOF is there that he is a con man? Either he has done a job worthy of an Academy Award, or people are so against TH being guilty that they are willing to cast blame on KH just because he's the biological dad. There is NO proof that KH is a con man or that he has had anything to do with what happened to Kyron. He should not be villainized because he made the mistake of getting together with TH and allowing her to help raise his children. God, he's a man and men make mistakes. That doesn't mean we should crucify him for it just to say that TH is not guilty.

All IMO, and after the presser last night, I suspect Kaine even less. It's obvious he really regrets bringing TH into his life. It is obvious he is upset over his son being missing, and that he wishes he could change things. It's also obvious he is working very well the police and his ex to find Kyron. I am tired of people who don't want to believe TH is guilty, but want to throw KH and even DY into the fire for what happened to Kyron. This is not some massive conspiracy to railroad TH. If she's innocent, it will be proven so. If she's innocent, she should say so!

The fact is, KH, DY, and TY have apparently been cleared. Otherwise, I don't think LE would continue working with them. I don't think LE would want them having pressers if they suspected them. Who hasn't been cleared? TH. Until she is or until information comes about KH, DY, or TY that PROVES they are guilty, the only one I am focusing on is the one who HASN'T been cleared, the one who KH and DY are pleading with to reveal where their son is.

I'm not saying TH is the only who can be discussed, I'm saying that it's wrong to throw everyone else under the bus, yet also say that Terri is innocent. All of them have just as much of a chance of being innocent as Terri does, and their lives don't deserve to be ruined any more than hers does. All of their lives are ruined anyway because Kyron is still missing. Let's use logic and reasoning here, not wild speculation and careless blaming.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Let me guess, KH did this? Why is TH so innocent but KH so guilty? I just don't understand it. There's all this upset over TH and she be might be innocent, so let's blame KH and say he's a con man? Not very mature there. You can't be upset about us talking about TH and then suggest, without ANY proof that KH is the guilty one here. That's not applying the same standards to everyone in this case.

And we don't know what the police have. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE. We can speculate all we want, but the only people who KNOW what the police have is the police, and possibly KH, DY, and TY. To say they obviously don't have enough is erroneous. How can we can possibly say whether they have enough or not when we don't know what they have? We don't know what they are investigating, who they are investigating other than Terri, what evidence they are looking at, and so on. All we KNOW is from the pressers, and what KH, and DY tell us. And what they have told, all they have told us, all the information that has come out does not have to do with KH, does not have to do with DY, does not have to do with TY, or anyone else BUT Terri.

All we do know is about ONE PERSON: TH. It's TH we keeping hearing about. It's TH who saw Kyron last at school. It's TH who's been acting weird since the beginning. It's TH who has or had PPD and that may have contributed. It's TH who is lying and not cooperating with police. It's TH who failed two polygraph tests.

So we should ignore logic and reason and just believe she's not guilty and KH is a con man? What PROOF is there that he is a con man? Either he has done a job worthy of an Academy Award, or people are so against Terri being guilty that they are willing to cast blame on KH just because he's the biological dad. There is NO proof that KH is a con man or that he has had anything to do with what happened to Kyron. He should not be villainized because he made the mistake of getting together with Terri and allowing her to help raise his children. God, he's a man and men make mistakes. That doesn't mean we should crucify him for it just to say that TH is not guilty.

All IMO, and after the presser last night, I suspect Kaine even less. I am tired of people who don't want to believe Terri is guilty, but want to throw KH and even DY into the fire for what happened to Kyron. This is not some massive conspiracy to railroad TH. If she's innocent, it will be proven so. If she's innocent, she should say so!

The fact is, KH, DY, and TY have apparently been cleared. Otherwise, I don't think LE would continue working with them. I don't think LE would want them having pressers if they suspected them. Who hasn't been cleared? TH. Until she is or until information comes about KH, DY, or TY that PROVES they are guilty, the only one I am focusing on is the one who HASN'T been cleared, the one who KH and DY are pleading with to reveal where their son is.

I'm not saying TH is the only who can be discussed, I'm saying that it's wrong to throw everyone else under the bus, yet also say that Terri is innocent. All of them have just as much of a chance of being innocent as Terri does, and their lives don't deserve to be ruined any more than hers does. All of their lives are ruined anyway because Kyron is still missing.

Respectfully, people have the right to their own opinions. I am not just saying this to you, BTW, but as a general comment for everyone on all sides of this matter. (So please don't take personal offence, as I don't mean to offend anyone with this.)

I just wanted to remind people that they also have the right to hit the "ignore" function if they feel a poster might push them over the edge. If there's no chance that the opposing POVs will result in any type of consensus or useful dialogue, there is no shame in blocking someone out, IMO.

Sorry for interrupting.

 

[Cher352]

Point taken, I agree. They are building a case, and that's what I mean by strong evidence. Something that can be used to convict. What we've been given so far by non-LE (polygraphs and cell phone pings) definitely isn't enough. The hit isn't enough. It takes a monumental amount of evidence to convict, especially without Kyron (be he alive or not). I still don't think Kaine and DY's statement that "they know she is lying" means a whole lot at this point, nor do I totally buy the MFH gardener thing.

Especially since DY said on ABC GMA this morning that "she hasn't told the truth in the 7 1/2 yrs since I have known her." I hope DY hasn't influenced KH's and LE's thinking.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/kyron-hormans-parents-speak-11124312

 

[kbl8201]

Let me guess, KH did this? Why is TH so innocent but KH so guilty? I just don't understand it. There's all this upset over TH and she be might be innocent, so let's blame KH and say he's a con man? Not very mature there. You can't be upset about us talking about TH and then suggest, without ANY proof that KH is the guilty one here. That's not applying the same standards to everyone in this case.

And we don't know what the police have. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE. We can speculate all we want, but the only people who KNOW what the police have is the police, and possibly KH, DY, and TY. For anyone to say they obviously don't have enough is erroneous (responding to more than one post here). How can we can possibly say whether they have enough or not when we don't know what they have? We don't know what they are investigating, who they are investigating other than Terri, what evidence they are looking at, and so on. All we KNOW is from the pressers, and what KH, and DY tell us. And what they have told, all they have told us, all the information that has come out does not have to do with KH, does not have to do with DY, does not have to do with TY, or anyone else BUT TH. No, the police have not named TH or arrested her, but that doesn't mean that they don't have anything either.

All we do know is about ONE PERSON: TH. It's TH we keeping hearing about. It's TH who saw Kyron last at school. It's TH who's been acting weird since the beginning. It's TH who has or had PPD and that may have contributed. It's TH who is lying and not cooperating with police. It's TH who failed two polygraph tests.

So we should ignore logic and reason and just believe she's not guilty and KH is a con man? What PROOF is there that he is a con man? Either he has done a job worthy of an Academy Award, or people are so against TH being guilty that they are willing to cast blame on KH just because he's the biological dad. There is NO proof that KH is a con man or that he has had anything to do with what happened to Kyron. He should not be villainized because he made the mistake of getting together with TH and allowing her to help raise his children. God, he's a man and men make mistakes. That doesn't mean we should crucify him for it just to say that TH is not guilty.

All IMO, and after the presser last night, I suspect Kaine even less. It's obvious he really regrets bringing TH into his life. It is obvious he is upset over his son being missing, and that he wishes he could change things. It's also obvious he is working very well the police and his ex to find Kyron. I am tired of people who don't want to believe TH is guilty, but want to throw KH and even DY into the fire for what happened to Kyron. This is not some massive conspiracy to railroad TH. If she's innocent, it will be proven so. If she's innocent, she should say so!

The fact is, KH, DY, and TY have apparently been cleared. Otherwise, I don't think LE would continue working with them. I don't think LE would want them having pressers if they suspected them. Who hasn't been cleared? TH. Until she is or until information comes about KH, DY, or TY that PROVES they are guilty, the only one I am focusing on is the one who HASN'T been cleared, the one who KH and DY are pleading with to reveal where their son is.

I'm not saying TH is the only who can be discussed, I'm saying that it's wrong to throw everyone else under the bus, yet also say that Terri is innocent. All of them have just as much of a chance of being innocent as Terri does, and their lives don't deserve to be ruined any more than hers does. All of their lives are ruined anyway because Kyron is still missing. Let's use logic and reasoning here, not wild speculation and careless blaming.

well i have as much evidence against kaine that any of you have against terri.

second, the only word we have that the 3 others were cleared are 'kane's NOT le's. and i dont think LE Would tell them the results of the polygraph in the first place.

and since everyone throws terri under the bus without a single shred of solid evidence, why am i getting the bad guy role for trying to think outside the box here?

i spent 3 weeks defending everyone in the family while everyonelse kept up the insuations. since its 'jump on terri' time i think its fair to ask wholese might have done it/been involved.

 

[Trident]

First off, this is a tough question to answer because we don't know the extent of the evidence LE has which points to Terri.

But the most important clues we know are the cell pings and lie detector tests. The cell pings are probably a very crucial piece of evidence. There are no towers on Sauvie Island but there are many surrounding it, especially to the east and southeast. The more towers that receive a ping from a phone, the more accurately the location of the phone can be pinpointed. The accuracy of the location can be improved even more depending on the type of antenna a tower has. So the cell phone ping data can be analyzed to determine it's accuracy. If her phone pinged off more than 3 or 4 towers they can probably group the pings from different sets of towers to check and re-check the location given by the results from the full set of tower pings.

So...LE probably have an idea of how accurate the cellphone ping data. If the data is only marginally accurate then they could be giving it too much weight. I think that is not likely given the amount of towers in the area and the lay of the land but I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if some of the cell ping data from that day is missing (in the Mackenzie Cowell case unfortunately the phone company lost some crucial data from the day Mackenzie went missing).

And we know that polygraphs are not scientifically sound enough to be permissible in court. I'm sure Terri walking out of the first polygraph (as Kaine said in an interview aired this morning) didn't help her case but maybe she just couldn't take the pressure of being suspected. What about her not telling the truth about what she did the day she went missing? We don't know how incomplete or unrealistic her story is. Maybe it's an obvious load of crap or maybe it's more plausible but just doesn't fit what LE thinks is evidence to the contrary.

I'm pretty confident that LE has good reason to suspect her but I don't think it's too difficult to come up with reasons why they could be jumping the gun, at least from our view as investigation outsiders.

BBM Do you mean that Terri walked out during the poly 'cause she couldn't take the pressure, or do you mean she walked out after it was over? If you mean she walked out during the poly, is there a link? I haven't heard this.

The only thing I remember about Terri and poly was KH and DY saying they were "told" Terri failed and were told they "passed with flying colors". Now, remembering this stuff from the Haleigh Cummings case, I believe LE does NOT tell anyone whether they pass or fail a poly. Maybe they do things differently in Oregon?

My opinion only

 

[kbl8201]

Respectfully, people have the right to their own opinions. I am not just saying this to you, BTW, but as a general comment for everyone on all sides of this matter. (So please don't take personal offence, as I don't mean to offend anyone with this.)

I just wanted to remind people that they also have the right to hit the "ignore" function if they feel a poster might push them over the edge. If there's no chance that the opposing POVs will result in any type of consensus or useful dialogue, there is no shame in blocking someone out, IMO.

Sorry for interrupting.

im not trying to offend anyone, im trying to realisticaly try to show there are other possibilities. i dont know how this is offensive? i have not openly attacked anyonelse's opinion on this matter, just differed from it.

im not trying to play the bad guy but apperentley im coming off that way.

 

[kbl8201]

BBM Do you mean that Terri walked out during the poly 'cause she couldn't take the pressure, or do you mean she walked out after it was over? If you mean she walked out during the poly, is there a link? I haven't heard this.

The only thing I remember about Terri and poly was KH and DY saying they were "told" Terri failed and were told they "passed with flying colors". Now, remembering this stuff from the Haleigh Cummings case, I believe LE does NOT tell anyone whether they pass or fail a poly. Maybe they do things differently in Oregon?

My opinion only

my point exactly, ty

 

[keeponsearching]

I feel its obvious they asked terri different questions since she is the last to see Kyron and the main caretaker.... Maybe they were asking insulting questions and she couldn't handle it.