If the plan was to be seen at the school.....

[shefner]

I'm curious on this. If it was TH's intent to be seen in the school, does she wear something noticeable or does she wear something very bland so she wouldn't be noticed in the parking lot? I'm assuming she would have to have another set of clothes along to change into to do whatever she allegedly did to Kyron and then she'd have to get rid of this set because she couldn't risk having any evidence on them. So would she buy a set of clothes just for this so she could dispose of them and wouldn't have to account for them being missing? Just something I was thinking about.

I had asked the question earlier in the day as to whether TH had on the same clothing that afternoon when Kaine came home from work as she had worn that morning before he left for work? Wondering if the police or FBI have questioned Kaine on this....

 

[DairyGirl]

I had asked the question earlier in the day as to whether TH had on the same clothing that afternoon when Kaine came home from work as she had worn that morning before he left for work? Wondering if the police or FBI have questioned Kaine on this....

That is a very good question. If it were TH it seems that the only clue they have is a cell phone pinging at SI. In order to hide him well enough to have kept him hidden this long she would have had to gotten dirty. I just don't see any way around that unless she just tossed him off the bridge, but if she did that he would have turned up by now. I wonder if she didn't run home and put her clothes in the washing machine. They should ask KH if she had the same clothes on and if she did laundry that day.

 

[Haeve]

"We talked about maybe going for a special treat and playing the Wii after school".

IMO: This would be the perfect thing to tell a child to get him to agree to a 'secret' escape from school. I don't believe he left the building with this person- I do believe there was a plan set in place before they arrived at school, and that plan included a designated *meeting spot*.

I don't get the connection. It was Kaine who said they talked about maybe getting a treat after school. Are you saying that a) Kaine was in on the plot and/or b) TH used that discussion, which I'm guessing she was in on, as a jumping off point to change the timeline not from "after school" which I think is universally understood to be in the afternoon to "after the science fair", which ended at 10 a.m.?

I don't have trouble with the theory that someone used some enticement to lure Kyron out of the school, I just don't get how the after school treat would be that enticement. (I posited earlier that perhaps TH made up a "CSI game" that she let Kyron think they were playing. )

 

[Haeve]

Why do so many people here think that Kyron was emotionally neglected? I have seen several posts about how poor Kyron was likely so happy to get some much needed/deserved/wanted attention. Why?

I think this comes from several places. One, people claim that when they looked at TH's Facebook, there were far more photos of TH's daughter than of Kyron. I haven't seen any proof of that. And also that Kyron was left "off to the side" or not included in some photos. I didn't really see that either. Someone said that during the video of the bridge presentation, TH corrected Kyron. I didn't watch it--can anyone confirm? This could mean she is hypercritical of Kyron. People see Kaine as cold, so that might have something to do with it also. And of course people are making a guess about Kyron being emotionally neglected based on what we have seen of TH's personality and actions in relation to his disappearance. Honestly, nowhere in the MSM does it claim (nor would it claim) that Kyron was emotionally neglected, so it's obviously all theory.

However, if we operate from the working theory that TH has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and from what little I've seen, I say it's a pretty good bet, then I can share my personal experience. My mother has NPD and though I was fed, clothed, housed and kept safe (more or less--from strangers and accidents, anyway), and everything looked more or less fine from the outside (it would depend on how close you looked--she's very good at playing the devoted mother)--I was desperate for her to actually love me, approve of me, and pay attention to me. So yeah, if my mother promised me some special one-on-one time that pertained to a special interest of mine, you can bet I would be jumping for joy and do whatever she said to make that happen. (Now in my case I'd end up committing some minor transgression that would get the privledge taken away again, but then my mother isn't homocidal either.)

Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional, just a survivor of a nutty mom.

 

[Kathy1964]

Kaine left for work before Terri took Kyron to school. Where was [baby K] while Terri was at school? Did she take the little girl with her? I haven't heard this mentioned, hope someone knows.

 

[Susan10]

This is the biggest hangup I have had about this case from the very beginning.

While some have said that she picked this day because everyone would be busy with so many people there, I just cant wrap my mind around that. I think back to when my own children when they had science fair exhibits and it was a day of repeated conversations of "well hi there, xxxxx, so nice to see you again." yada, yada, yada etc. Seeing many that I hadn't seen in awhile but knew I was the mother of the children they knew and knew I had volunteered at the school. Many of them coming up and saying "oh aren't you xxxxxxx's, mom?"

Terri knew parents,students, teachers, school staff and rightly or wrongly they thought she was Kyron's bio mother, imo and Kyron had attended this same school since the beginning.

To me someone less noticed or unassuming could have taken Kyron out of there without being detected than the woman with the flaming red hair that so many people knew there. Especially if it didn't register that this person wasnt a family member since Kyron would not with his mother so they could put two and two together.

Maybe she did this, but if so it will remain a mystery how she could have pulled this off with that school being packed with 300 people (many who would have to know her by sight) and no one saw her leave with Kyron.

IMO

It would help TH out a lot if all those people who knew and saw her would speak up. No one seems to be speaking, unless of course, that's one of LE's secrets. She went early to the SF when not too many people were there. U said 300 ppls were there and the place was packed when Kyron disappeared and when TH was there? I haven't heard that before....people were scarce at that time of the morning that day....do you know something diff?

 

[debirlfan]

Honestly, I'm not so sure that she killed him, but that said - following the thread of her being seen at the school, and (presumably) not being seen leaving with him:

Try this scenario. TH takes Kyron to school, and makes sure she is seen with him. She lures him to an isolated part of the school (perhaps telling him there are more exhibits there?) and kills him. A seven year old is not very big, and doesn't weigh much. She is familiar with the school and their "routines", as she has assisted there. TH bags Kyron's body and stuffs it into the bottom of a large trash can that will be emptied later in the day by the janitor. (someone in the 'locals' thread thought the trash was picked up Fridays - has that been confirmed?) She simply walks away, probably making sure people see her leaving alone.

 

[gwenabob]

Honestly, I'm not so sure that she killed him, but that said - following the thread of her being seen at the school, and (presumably) not being seen leaving with him:

Try this scenario. TH takes Kyron to school, and makes sure she is seen with him. She lures him to an isolated part of the school (perhaps telling him there are more exhibits there?) and kills him. A seven year old is not very big, and doesn't weigh much. She is familiar with the school and their "routines", as she has assisted there. TH bags Kyron's body and stuffs it into the bottom of a large trash can that will be emptied later in the day by the janitor. (someone in the 'locals' thread thought the trash was picked up Fridays - has that been confirmed?) She simply walks away, probably making sure people see her leaving alone.

Maybe, but 50 lbs in a trash can would be very unusual. The custodian would definitely check it out. Also, all the plastic can liners in PPS are clear plastic.

 

[carole]

Kaine left for work before Terri took Kyron to school. Where was baby K while Terri was at school? Did she take the little girl with her? I haven't heard this mentioned, hope someone knows.

There's been no indication of where the baby was that morning.

 

[debirlfan]

Maybe, but 50 lbs in a trash can would be very unusual. The custodian would definitely check it out. Also, all the plastic can liners in PPS are clear plastic.

Would it be, if it was - say cafeteria waste? (Maybe they throw out less stuff than they did when I was in school.) And with the science fair, there might be all sorts of bags/boxes/packing materials being tossed.

For that matter - it wouldn't surprise me if some projects were wheeled in with dollies. If she had an accomplice.... For that matter, if indeed she left alone, there's the question of whether she was carrying/pushing anything when she left.

 

[debirlfan]

Let me ask a related question.

When she contacted the school about when to pick up the exhibit - could that have been done hoping that someone would notice that Kyron was missing and ask about it? Everyone seems to assume she emailed them to make sure they didn't suspect anything was wrong - maybe she had the opposite intention.

 

[carole]

Let me ask a related question.

When she contacted the school about when to pick up the exhibit - could that have been done hoping that someone would notice that Kyron was missing and ask about it? Everyone seems to assume she emailed them to make sure they didn't suspect anything was wrong - maybe she had the opposite intention.

I think it's still a rumor that she emailed the teacher.

 

[butterfly1978]

I think she told him she was going to take him to see an electric exhibit, to run to the restroom real quick and she would pull the truck around to the side door , to come out when hes done. She could watch and see if anyone sees her or him he runs out jumps in the truck and they are gone.

 

[captivagrl]

If there was a plan, wouldn't TH assume someone would notice he was missing long before meeting the bus? I'd imagine she would be waiting for a call. Or, maybe she hoped KH would get the call? Really want to know what her demeanor was like that day and the previous days.

 

[DairyGirl]

If there was a plan, wouldn't TH assume someone would notice he was missing long before meeting the bus? I'd imagine she would be waiting for a call. Or, maybe she hoped KH would get the call? Really want to know what her demeanor was like that day and the previous days.

Terri worked at the school. She knew they never called if a child was absent. And, if like I think, she said something about an appointment, they never even questioned why he wasn't there after the science fair.

 

[captivagrl]

Terri worked at the school. She knew they never called if a child was absent. And, if like I think, she said something about an appointment, they never even questioned why he wasn't there after the science fair.

I thought MSM reported that his jacket and backpack were hanging in the classroom. She may have known she had a few hours, but til the bus came? That's what I'm wondering...

 

[DairyGirl]

I thought MSM reported that his jacket and backpack were hanging in the classroom. She may have known she had a few hours, but til the bus came? That's what I'm wondering...

LE had no comment about his backpack. If she did anything she had plenty of time. From about 9:00 am till about 2:00 pm when KH came home. A lot could be done in 4 or 5 hours.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Leaving the school in any manner in which Kyron could be seen to be associated with Terri leaving, would place Terri at great risk of being caught, because of the extra people coming and going at the school that day. Even on a normal day, all it would have taken to be caught is just one person who happens to look out the window at just the right moment to see Kyron and Terri or Terri's vehicle associated with leaving together.

SBM

It could be. However...

The school is surrounded by a lot of mature trees. Very pretty setting. Judging from the photos, most of the windows would be at least partially obscured.

Additionally, there was plenty to focus on inside the school that day. It wasn't an ordinary day with a possibility of bored kids staring out the windows. There was lots of movement inside the school, lots of exhibits to see, etc.

A man leaving the school, hopping into a commonly seen white truck, and driving off, would be unlikely to stick in anyone's mind.

I agree with this.

So, suppose while in the restroom (or a little-used basement room), before changing to a disguise as a man, Terri slips the baby something to make her groggy and quiet or sleep. Terri switches to her man disguise, the baby is now groggy, Terri puts the baby into a container of some sort, and a man walking across a parking lot and sliding a tote into the truck would likely not stick in anyone's mind. It's a common sight.

That same man returning into the school would also not be anything sticking out enough to stay in someone's memory.

I don't think this is likely.

For one thing, adult men and women walk differently due to differences in pelvic structure. It takes a lot of practise for a man to do a good impression of walking like a woman and most men who can do so use the advantage of high heels to neutralise the structural differences. It takes even more practise for a woman to walk like a man and she obviously can't use high heels to help!

I think a man who walked like a woman would stand out in a school setting even more than a woman with long, flaming red hair due to the sheer incongruity of looking like a man but walking like a woman.

Plus, I'm not sure how to say this decorously but...

Um. Er.

Well, just to be blatant, TMH has a fairly large bosom. And while she appears to have put on some weight since her bodybuilding contest days, she's not fat enough in the face or belly to look realistic sporting a massive pair of moobs if disguised as a man.

Again, I think if she had gone into the school with that rack disguised as a man, she would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

So even if TMH could move like a man from a distance, I doubt she could pass as a man in close quarters.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've asked the same question, but it has little to do with who took him. He *was* seen at the school, and *somebody* got him out of there without being seen (unless police were strategically lying when they recently confirmed that the last sighting of Kyron was inside the school building). The challenge was pretty much the same for Terri as for anyone else, especially anyone else that he knew at all, and thus would likely come towards if summoned. A young child departing an elementary school building right around the time classes were *starting* would have been a sight that practically anyone would have noted and remembered, even if at the time they just assumed there must be some good reason for it.

Why would a school-aged child be leaving an elementary school building or parking lot just as school is getting started? If a child has a doctor's or other appointment that would require leaving that early, you wouldn't have him go to school in the first place. And you wouldn't be likely to schedule such an appointment for the day of a special event the child was participating in, unless there was some really urgent medical condition requiring a hard-to-schedule specialist. Only reasons I can think of are 1) sudden illness that arose just after the child arrived, and 2) a new or prospective student being brought to the school for registration only, in advance of actually enrolling. Number 1 would not be consistent with seeing a child who didn't really look to be in any serious discomfort, and Number 2 would not be consistent with it being the last week or so of the school year.

BBM

Would a child walking towards the parking lot with an adult seem noteworthy if it happened at, say, 8:20 am? The science fair was going on, classes weren't starting for another 25 minutes.

I know I would tend to think that the kid had forgotten something in the parent's vehicle and they were going out to retrieve it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think it was TH, all by herself, either out of a side door, or possibly through the front. This is a woman that was confident that everything was okay and was doing a thumbs up right before her child was taken and a divorce and restraining order was issued against her.

I think she has narcisstic tendencies if she's not a narcissist, and just had the confidence she could make sure Kyron was seen at school, and then make sure she was seen leaving alone and got him out some other way, or they were seen together, but she wasn't worried. If she was known around that school, I doubt people would have even blinked at Kyron leaving with her, or because it was so busy, one little kid fell off the radar - maybe she was counting on that.

She seems to think she has everything covered. An answer for every question, and now a lawyer so she doesn't have to speak. I think she still might be foolishly confident that they can't catch her. She thinks she's thought this out so well, and no one can take her down. As long as they don't find Kyron's body, she'll be okay (sound familiar to anyone?).

The problem is, we're all going on normal thinking. I don't think she thinks normally. I don't think she worries about things in the same way we do. We'd be all paranoid about taking our child out of school and someone seeing us. I just don't think she worried about that. I think she believed she could explain it away later, and certainly her family and friends would vouch for her, and no one would believe she was capable of harming a child.

I think she lives in a fantasy world where she can't do anything wrong and it's everyone else that's wrong. Who knows, maybe she saw in a movie or on tv someone snatching a kid from school and thought she could do that too, how easy would that be for her? Again, this is not normal, everyday thinking the way us at WS or a normal person would think. This is a delusional, narcisstic, possibly sociopathic person who thinks very differently than we do (not proven, but things are adding up to suggest this).

If I've learned anything from the CA case, it's that these people's thinking is vastly different than our own, and trying to put logic into thinking like that is just going to cause more headaches and frustration.

Strongly agreed.

This is precisely why I think looking for motive as part of an investigation is largely useless. Find the perpetrator first and the motive will be found.

What normal person could possibly think "gee, I want to find out what it is like to kill a human being, so I'll kill that kid from down the road"? And yet, that's what Alyssa Bustamente gave as her motive for the premeditated killing of Elizabeth Olten.