If you agree or disagree with the verdict, let us know why

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Given you are at the point where you have a dead body on your hands, that you now have to figure out what to do with. Your choices are rather limited. In the short term, duct tape to stop body fluids leaking out and/or bugs entering her nose and mouth. Several trash bags to cover and hide the body and not draw attention if see by anyone.

In death, fluid exits the body from all orifices, therefore, imo KC used duct tape in the most sinister manner and not for any compassionate reasons, i.e. bugs entering nose and mouth.

Duct tape in all probability utilized to silence a fussy child while mommy administered chloroform for heavy sedation or applied in order to smother after administering chloroform or to stage a so called kidnapping post mortem.

imo
 
But she easily could have had that life...all she had to do was leave Caylee with Cindy. While we know that Cindy and Casay were fighting like dogs and cats about this issue, it was not made clear to the jury, IMO. Cindy played the devoted grandma on the stand as well as covering for Casey every step of the way. She even talked about Casey's "friends" at the trial as though they really existed and she still believed it. The rancor between the two (Casey and her mother) was not made clear. I think the State stayed away from that issue for their own reasons, but it did not help their case, IMO.
I actually agree with you on this
It should have been made clear but I don;t think Cindy would cooperate with that and admit the problems so their hands were tied . If the jury were made more aware the the kc and ca problems ..but you know ..who knows if the jury would have bothered with that either . They didnt listen to the states case at all anyway .
 
Regardless of the air sample and hair, there was very convincing evidence besides that there was a body in the trunk. You have to look at all the evidence. It's absurd to say that if you discount the air evidence, that then means there is doubt about the body in the trunk.

I disagree that discounting the air sample would not bring doubt as to whether or not there was a body in the trunk. I do agree that it would be absurd to believe that if only the air sample is discounted that there was not a body in the trunk.

So let me expound. The theory of the prosecution is that Caylee's body was in the trunk for roughly 3 days. The garbage removed from the white trash bag was changed, altered, whatever evidence that could have been used to exculpate KC was destroyed, put intentionally into a dry room, this is not justice, we will never know what food was in that bag, Since the evidence in that bag was altered, or destroyed we have reasonable doubt about the states claim NO FOOD was in the white trash bag. Since we have reasonable doubt about the states claim of NO FOOD, we can make a reasonable assumption that a white trash bag from a kitchen where several 20 something persons resided, most likely had food in it. That is not stretching the imagination. Nearly every home has a kitchen, and in many homes even when they have a garbage disposal, foodstuffs end up in the kitchen garbage. This does not take a giant leap of faith, especially when you add that there were hundreds if not thousands of maggots in that same trash bag that had to be eating something.

The fatty substance like adipocere was on paper towelling found in the white trash bag. The state could have had further testing done on this substance to determine beyond any doubt whatsoever that it was indeed adipocere. This test was not run, and there was a reason they did not run this test, it was NOT adipocere.

The single fly leg found in the white trash bag, was the entire basis for Dr. Haskell's report. The white trash bag sat in a dumpster for nearly a whole day and night. There was an opening in the white trash bag that any insects (quite likely flies that were the same as the single fly leg) in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in that dumpster, could, would and most likely did enter that bag filled with maggots and likely rotting food. The state also did not test the maggots for dna, which they could have done.The phantom stain in the trunk of the car. Personally, I can't see any stain but in evidence, there was no blood in the trunk of the car, no dna, no dark colored staining.

The single hair with apparent decomp. Both FBI agents that testified could not say this hair came from a dead body. Neither could they testify as to how long that hair was in the trunk of that car. Reasonable doubt.

The chloroform. The sniffer machine will someday be part of LE just as DNA is, however, it is not ready yet. A qualitative analysis was done, not a quantitative analysis. There are no levels in a qualitative analysis, so it could not have resulted in shockingly high levels of chloroform. The FBI chemist that followed Dr. Vass testified that they were low levels of chloroform, normal and consistant with possible use of cleaning products. The FBI guy did his testing in a scientific laboratory with the highest of protocols, whereas Dr. Vass used a research lab, with little to no protocols.

Now our favorite subject, the smell of death. Who testified to the smell of human decomposition? GB when answering the prosecution called it human decomposition, but when answering the defense called it decomposition. Dog handler Forgey. AV. MV. CA in her third 911 call in an effort to get the police to get there faster. SB who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. GA who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. Dr. Haskell. Who did not testify that they smelled human decomposition? Karen Sanchez from Amscot smelled garbage. TL who was standing near the trunk with KC. CB who picked up the car and took it to the towyard. MK who sat in the backseat. CH who also sat in the backseat. LE sargent smelled something, but it wasn't anything alarming enough to call csi. Deputy RE, didn't smell a thing. YM still did nothing even after being advised by GA about the odor in the trunk. Cpl BF didn't smell anything and he was in and out of the garage several times while the trunk was open. LE AA said she did not smell anything. This is not proof BARD that the odor from the car came from human decomposition.

I understand that one needs to look at the totality of circumstantial evidence. I also understand that you have to look at the evidence as a whole, however, when every single piece of the evidence that came from the trunk has reasonable doubt attached to it, how can the totality of this evidence prove anything at all BARD? It cannot.

The verdict in this case was correct.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
 
I think Cindy had been really scared that Casey was going to hurt Caylee ..that was her biggest fear when they were gone .
I think the fight they had that that was just that bad and she knew her duahgter was that unstable .
Why would someone clean out a car that smells like death ?? I cannot imagine standing in that stench ..she started covering right there .
The month before Caylees death Cindy was finally starting to get some threapy ..The therapist wanted her to do tough love with Casey but included throwing her out with that . I think Cindy felt guilty
 
Well, we know GA didn't call right then because he wanted to get the car home and CA told him she would take care of it. GA was starting a new job that day so he went off to work. He was relieved neither FCCA or Caylee were in the trunk. What parent immediately thinks your child killed your grandchild?
The tow guy probably didn't call because there wasn't a body in the car, and the owners of the car drove the car off of the lot. What would he have said? For all he knew, the LE already knew about it.
CA wanted to find CFCA for an explanation because she was supposed to be out of town romancing the guy with the money, Jeffrey, and have her car with her and clearly she didn't. But she finally did call when CFCA refused to produce her grandchild. But I don't think it occurred to any of them on that day that Caylee's body had actually been decomposing in the trunk.

IIRC, SB (towyard guy) testified that he smelled the death smell before the A's were notified of the car being there. IIRC, he smelled the smell when he pulled the VIN number from the car to get information from LE to who owned the car. If he smelled death then, why wouldn't he alert someone? Isn't that kind of like hindering an investigation?
 
In death, fluid exits the body from all orifices, therefore, imo KC used duct tape in the most sinister manner and not for any compassionate reasons, i.e. bugs entering nose and mouth.

Duct tape in all probability utilized to silence a fussy child while mommy administered chloroform for heavy sedation or applied in order to smother after administering chloroform or to stage a so called kidnapping post mortem.

imo

IMO saying that chloroform was used is the same as saying it was an accident. Neither was proven. Even Ashton couldn't say for certain that it was used. He said he could only "hope" it was. This was one of the main problem with the trial. There was nothing proving BARD that Casey ever used chloroform on Caylee.
 
<modsnip>

<modsnip> but for the record, I can't stand any of the Anthony's, George included but especially Cindy, they've acted atrociously. I think they are all warped. They would lie to keep their daughter off of death row, even though they knew that she was responsible for what happened to their granddaughter. I think in their warped minds they already lost one they didn't want to lose another. But that was all after caylee was discovered missing.

But there's absolutely nothing that showed George was involved or knew what happened to caylee. The facts that are known prove the opposite. There's no evidence that anyoen was involved but casey. That's all I am defending George on.

I think it's deplorable to use an accusation of sexual abuse to get oneself out of a conviction.
 
IMO saying that chloroform was used is the same as saying it was an accident. Neither was proven. Even Ashton couldn't say for certain that it was used. He said he could only "hope" it was. This was one of the main problem with the trial. There was nothing proving BARD that Casey ever used chloroform on Caylee.

That's not what he said.
 
IMO saying that chloroform was used is the same as saying it was an accident. Neither was proven. Even Ashton couldn't say for certain that it was used. He said he could only "hope" it was. This was one of the main problem with the trial. There was nothing proving BARD that Casey ever used chloroform on Caylee.

I think JA said that he hoped it was used before the duct tape was applied, so she didn't suffer. Not that he hoped it was used.
 
That's not what he said.

Um, yes it was. He said and I quote: "We can only hope that the chloroform was used before the tape was applied so that Caylee went peacefully without feeling".
 
I think JA said that he hoped it was used before the duct tape was applied, so she didn't suffer. Not that he hoped it was used.

??? He said "We can only hope that the chloroform was used before the tape was applied so that Caylee went peacefully without feeling". Not sure how this is different then what I said. I didn't post his whole quote as I didn't think it would be necessary but yes, he said we can only hope the chloroform was used.
 
??? He said "We can only hope that the chloroform was used before the tape was applied so that Caylee went peacefully without feeling". Not sure how this is different then what I said. I didn't post his whole quote as I didn't think it would be necessary but yes, he said we can only hope the chloroform was used.

BBM he wasn't questioning whether or not it was used but whether it was used before or after the duct tape was applied. The use of it wasn't in question. His statement is pretty clear.
 
I disagree that discounting the air sample would not bring doubt as to whether or not there was a body in the trunk. I do agree that it would be absurd to believe that if only the air sample is discounted that there was not a body in the trunk.

So let me expound. The theory of the prosecution is that Caylee's body was in the trunk for roughly 3 days. The garbage removed from the white trash bag was changed, altered, whatever evidence that could have been used to exculpate KC was destroyed, put intentionally into a dry room, this is not justice, we will never know what food was in that bag, Since the evidence in that bag was altered, or destroyed we have reasonable doubt about the states claim NO FOOD was in the white trash bag. Since we have reasonable doubt about the states claim of NO FOOD, we can make a reasonable assumption that a white trash bag from a kitchen where several 20 something persons resided, most likely had food in it. That is not stretching the imagination. Nearly every home has a kitchen, and in many homes even when they have a garbage disposal, foodstuffs end up in the kitchen garbage. This does not take a giant leap of faith, especially when you add that there were hundreds if not thousands of maggots in that same trash bag that had to be eating something.

The fatty substance like adipocere was on paper towelling found in the white trash bag. The state could have had further testing done on this substance to determine beyond any doubt whatsoever that it was indeed adipocere. This test was not run, and there was a reason they did not run this test, it was NOT adipocere.

The single fly leg found in the white trash bag, was the entire basis for Dr. Haskell's report. The white trash bag sat in a dumpster for nearly a whole day and night. There was an opening in the white trash bag that any insects (quite likely flies that were the same as the single fly leg) in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in that dumpster, could, would and most likely did enter that bag filled with maggots and likely rotting food. The state also did not test the maggots for dna, which they could have done.The phantom stain in the trunk of the car. Personally, I can't see any stain but in evidence, there was no blood in the trunk of the car, no dna, no dark colored staining.

The single hair with apparent decomp. Both FBI agents that testified could not say this hair came from a dead body. Neither could they testify as to how long that hair was in the trunk of that car. Reasonable doubt.

The chloroform. The sniffer machine will someday be part of LE just as DNA is, however, it is not ready yet. A qualitative analysis was done, not a quantitative analysis. There are no levels in a qualitative analysis, so it could not have resulted in shockingly high levels of chloroform. The FBI chemist that followed Dr. Vass testified that they were low levels of chloroform, normal and consistant with possible use of cleaning products. The FBI guy did his testing in a scientific laboratory with the highest of protocols, whereas Dr. Vass used a research lab, with little to no protocols.

Now our favorite subject, the smell of death. Who testified to the smell of human decomposition? GB when answering the prosecution called it human decomposition, but when answering the defense called it decomposition. Dog handler Forgey. AV. MV. CA in her third 911 call in an effort to get the police to get there faster. SB who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. GA who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. Dr. Haskell. Who did not testify that they smelled human decomposition? Karen Sanchez from Amscot smelled garbage. TL who was standing near the trunk with KC. CB who picked up the car and took it to the towyard. MK who sat in the backseat. CH who also sat in the backseat. LE sargent smelled something, but it wasn't anything alarming enough to call csi. Deputy RE, didn't smell a thing. YM still did nothing even after being advised by GA about the odor in the trunk. Cpl BF didn't smell anything and he was in and out of the garage several times while the trunk was open. LE AA said she did not smell anything. This is not proof BARD that the odor from the car came from human decomposition.

I understand that one needs to look at the totality of circumstantial evidence. I also understand that you have to look at the evidence as a whole, however, when every single piece of the evidence that came from the trunk has reasonable doubt attached to it, how can the totality of this evidence prove anything at all BARD? It cannot.

The verdict in this case was correct.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

A couple of points -- MK, CH rode in the car prior to June 16th -- I believe it may have been June 4th. KC herself, was setting up scenarios to AH regarding the stench in her car, i.e. GA hitting an animal. The Amscott lady smelled garbage because the car was parked beside a dumpster, a choice KC made to mask the smell of decomposition in her own car.

imo
 
I disagree that discounting the air sample would not bring doubt as to whether or not there was a body in the trunk. I do agree that it would be absurd to believe that if only the air sample is discounted that there was not a body in the trunk.

So let me expound. The theory of the prosecution is that Caylee's body was in the trunk for roughly 3 days. The garbage removed from the white trash bag was changed, altered, whatever evidence that could have been used to exculpate KC was destroyed, put intentionally into a dry room, this is not justice, we will never know what food was in that bag, Since the evidence in that bag was altered, or destroyed we have reasonable doubt about the states claim NO FOOD was in the white trash bag. Since we have reasonable doubt about the states claim of NO FOOD, we can make a reasonable assumption that a white trash bag from a kitchen where several 20 something persons resided, most likely had food in it. That is not stretching the imagination. Nearly every home has a kitchen, and in many homes even when they have a garbage disposal, foodstuffs end up in the kitchen garbage. This does not take a giant leap of faith, especially when you add that there were hundreds if not thousands of maggots in that same trash bag that had to be eating something.

The fatty substance like adipocere was on paper towelling found in the white trash bag. The state could have had further testing done on this substance to determine beyond any doubt whatsoever that it was indeed adipocere. This test was not run, and there was a reason they did not run this test, it was NOT adipocere.

The single fly leg found in the white trash bag, was the entire basis for Dr. Haskell's report. The white trash bag sat in a dumpster for nearly a whole day and night. There was an opening in the white trash bag that any insects (quite likely flies that were the same as the single fly leg) in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in that dumpster, could, would and most likely did enter that bag filled with maggots and likely rotting food. The state also did not test the maggots for dna, which they could have done.The phantom stain in the trunk of the car. Personally, I can't see any stain but in evidence, there was no blood in the trunk of the car, no dna, no dark colored staining.

The single hair with apparent decomp. Both FBI agents that testified could not say this hair came from a dead body. Neither could they testify as to how long that hair was in the trunk of that car. Reasonable doubt.

The chloroform. The sniffer machine will someday be part of LE just as DNA is, however, it is not ready yet. A qualitative analysis was done, not a quantitative analysis. There are no levels in a qualitative analysis, so it could not have resulted in shockingly high levels of chloroform. The FBI chemist that followed Dr. Vass testified that they were low levels of chloroform, normal and consistant with possible use of cleaning products. The FBI guy did his testing in a scientific laboratory with the highest of protocols, whereas Dr. Vass used a research lab, with little to no protocols.

Now our favorite subject, the smell of death. Who testified to the smell of human decomposition? GB when answering the prosecution called it human decomposition, but when answering the defense called it decomposition. Dog handler Forgey. AV. MV. CA in her third 911 call in an effort to get the police to get there faster. SB who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. GA who did not call 911 immediately after smelling human decomposition in the trunk. Dr. Haskell. Who did not testify that they smelled human decomposition? Karen Sanchez from Amscot smelled garbage. TL who was standing near the trunk with KC. CB who picked up the car and took it to the towyard. MK who sat in the backseat. CH who also sat in the backseat. LE sargent smelled something, but it wasn't anything alarming enough to call csi. Deputy RE, didn't smell a thing. YM still did nothing even after being advised by GA about the odor in the trunk. Cpl BF didn't smell anything and he was in and out of the garage several times while the trunk was open. LE AA said she did not smell anything. This is not proof BARD that the odor from the car came from human decomposition.

I understand that one needs to look at the totality of circumstantial evidence. I also understand that you have to look at the evidence as a whole, however, when every single piece of the evidence that came from the trunk has reasonable doubt attached to it, how can the totality of this evidence prove anything at all BARD? It cannot.

The verdict in this case was correct.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.



Thank you for this post! You summed up pretty much what I thought in my head as each day of the trial went on. And, you were able to articulate that very well! :clap:
 
BBM he wasn't questioning whether or not it was used but whether it was used before or after the duct tape was applied. The use of it wasn't in question. His statement is pretty clear.

I didn't say he was questioning it. I said he said he could only hope it was used.
 
??? He said "We can only hope that the chloroform was used before the tape was applied so that Caylee went peacefully without feeling". Not sure how this is different then what I said. I didn't post his whole quote as I didn't think it would be necessary but yes, he said we can only hope the chloroform was used.

Caylee could have been choroformed a few hours earlier while KC was out driving around, and then duct taped later while she was awake and killed. Sadly, we'll never know. He was hoping about her being choroformed right before death so she wouldn't suffer. Not hoping that it was used at all. They state had people testify about chloroform so I'm sure they contended that it was definitely used.
 
I don't know who you mean, I wasn't discussing it here back then but for the record, I can't stand any of the Anthony's, George included but especially Cindy, they've acted atrociously. I think they are all warped. They would lie to keep their daughter off of death row, even though they knew that she was responsible for what happened to their granddaughter. I think in their warped minds they already lost one they didn't want to lose another. But that was all after caylee was discovered missing.

But there's absolutely nothing that showed George was involved or knew what happened to caylee. The facts that are known prove the opposite. There's no evidence that anyoen was involved but casey. That's all I am defending George on.

I think it's deplorable to use an accusation of sexual abuse to get oneself out of a conviction.

I didn't mean anyone in particular. It was stated that posters weren't allowed to bash the victims. I simply stated that the Anthonys have been bashed since the beginning.
 
OMG seriously? No that's not what I'm saying and I don't understand why some are taking what I said out of context. I said that some of the same people are now defending them. I didn't say there was anything wrong with that, just that it is what it is. The statement was made that no one should be bashing the victims as it’s against the rules, I was simply pointing out that this has been happening since the beginning.

Yes I was serious.When you say bashing, are you speaking of recent posts, or in the past? The reason I'm asking is because I haven't seen any bashing in these recent posts.
 
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