IL IL - Elfrieda 'Fritzie' Knaak, 29, Lake Bluff, 30 Oct 1928

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Marie's blogspot concerning the case is gone. ????
 
Stella said:
Marie's blogspot concerning the case is gone. ????
Click to expand...

I just noticed that too. She just swept in out of the blue with all her information and then disappeared blog and all. Very strange indeed.
 
Alix said:
I think that might be the most ghastly story I have ever read.

I don't see how she could have burned her face down to the bone. How did she leave her face stuck in a burning furnace long enough to do that without breathing in fire?

God, that is just hideous.
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I can see how it would have happened. Do we know that the furnace was burning the entire time? If the flames could have gone out for a bit, just leaving the ashes, she could have pressed her face down into them. The shock of the pain would cause her to freeze so no breathing plus the flames would be out so no inhalation injury. At some point after less than (I'd say 30 seconds) the burns go deep enough to kill the nerves, so after that it wouldn't be nearly as painful. Of course, there is the edge of the wound that would be 2nd degree, but again shock whether she did it to herself or not.

If the flames didn't go out, was the outside of the furnace hot?

Another thing, (I read this as it was active, but it now it's dead) did she have burns to the palms of her hands? If she did, it is very unlikely they were self inflicted.

Think about what happens when you touch something hot. What do you do? You close your fingers into a fist while pulling away, right? That's a natural reaction. It is also why those who touch/grab an electrical wire can't let go at first, because their fingers react by clenching up.

Here's a link about how to tell the difference between intentional/accidental burn injuries: http://www.invisiblechildren.org/2010/03/20/burn-injuries-make-up-10-of-all-child-abuse-cases/
 
I had another idea...not sure if it is feasible yet, but running with it just the same....there seemed to be some esoteric thoughts running in a few of this story's main characters - also classes taught by Charles regarding salesmanship and such. For many years past to our now future, people have used certain exercises to prove mind over matter or to build confidence, etc. I was thinking of what we know of Elfrieda's injuries and the fact that it was stated there was no burning smell where she was found. I thought her wounds could be consistent with someone walking over coals (or whatnot) and falling - or being pushed. Maybe a learning exercise that had a more sinister motive was initiated and once the damage was done, she was moved to the police dept....hence, no burning smell or origin found.....just a thought that I am playing with.....
Creole
 
It's been a long time since I visited this thread, due to personal stuff going on and lack of time to log in/spend time on the various cases I post for.

I have not forgotten Elfrieda, nor given up on the possibility that someone, somewhere, knows Elfrieda's secrets.

I found that burns website linked above interesting, especially these questions. I think I'll have to go back and review all the information again before I make commentary on these in a post, but a few have obvious answers:


------------------------------------------------
Is the explanation of what happened consistent with the injury?

Are there contradictory or varying accounts of the method or time of the “accident” or other discrepancies in the witnesses’ descriptions of what happened?

Does the injury have a clean line of demarcation, parts within or immediately around the injured area that are not burned, a burn pattern inconsistent with the injury account, or any other of the typical characteristics of an inflicted burn?

Are other injuries present such as fractures, healed burns, or bruises?

Was there a delay in seeking medical attention?
-----------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, I still think Elfrieda was lured to Lake Bluff that night, as it seems she was initially pretty intent on going straight home after a long day at work, and then suddenly changed her mind (or had it changed by someone to get her where they wanted her) while at the depot (where she made the phone calls) -- and I also still think there is no way she burned herself to that extent, and that she was very possibly both burned on the furnace -and- electrocuted.

I think Barney knew what happened to her, along with several other people under Hitchcock's "tuition". Everyone was protecting everyone else - particularly Hitch. Even Elfrieda protected him to the very end, though it's patently clear Hitch was out for himself through the whole 'ordeal'.

One thing I have learned by having occasion other than this case to research men like Hitchcock is that is the left hand always makes very sure nobody finds out what the right hand is doing. Hitchcock was fleecing people, this is obvious. But I suspect it went further than that, perhaps into the realm of blackmail here and there. He was in a position both as policeman and as 'guru' to discover people's secrets -- and who thinks he would not take full advantage of this? Not me.

Somehow I am not at all surprised that the social standing of Lake Bluff's 'golden boy' went down the toilet very quickly after this crime. Perhaps he'd simply pushed people too far, and they were no longer willing to protect him. Couldn't make him responsible for Elfrieda without embroiling and risking themselves, but made very sure he had to GTFO of town (or public office, at least). I'm really surprised he stayed in the area, after considering all the 'bad publicity' -- but hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?

Random, rusty thoughts. I can't put as much time into this as I would like atm, but I don't want Elfrieda forgotten.

And yeah, Marie's Magical Vanishing Blog...:waitasec: Gods forbid someone should rip all the publically accessible info she pulled off the internet and use it to ... what.. write a rival film script? Help to solve the goddamned crime? Idk, some people eh.
 
Just a bump for Elfrieda, and to say I haven't forgotten this case.

Here's an interesting but mostly unrelated snippet - I discovered that Frank Lloyd Wright is by association linked to another horrific murder of a young woman, only this one's a LOT more famous than Elfrieda's.

A reminder of the link between Wright and Elfrieda - Wright's associate Tomlinson designed the hall in which Elfrieda was found. Wright himself designed many homes in the Oak Park area.

Franks son, Lloyd Wright, carried on his father's tradition and in 1926 built John Sowden House - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which was owned from 1945-51 by Dr. George Hodel.

Hodel happens to be one of the prime suspects in the 1947 murder of Elizabeth Short. AKA the Black Dahlia. And Hodel's son claims the Sowden house may very well have been the location in which Elizabeth died before being dumped in a vacant lot half a block from there.

Not very relevant to the case, I guess. But interesting.
 
A very interesting article! Thank you for that.

Poor Mr. Talcott...
 
i'm still reading this thread. But, Elfreida's father owned a pharmacy. Maybe someone convinced her to sneak out some painkillers? Like, say, Hitchcock of the broken leg? But, the painkillers were instead used on Elfreida. This is why she didn't go into shock and die before she could finally be taken to the doctor. Painkillers in 1928 were no joke. I'm pretty sure HEROIN was legal around that time. Maybe not OTC, but possibly available in a pharmacy.

ETA link
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

No, heroin became illegal in 1924. However, surprise, it still is used sometimes except not called heroin. Obviously, things have to be very severe. But, just because it was no longer legal doesn't mean Elfrieda couldn't get some because it was only four years later at that point.
 
December said:
i'm still reading this thread. But, Elfreida's father owned a pharmacy. Maybe someone convinced her to sneak out some painkillers? Like, say, Hitchcock of the broken leg? But, the painkillers were instead used on Elfreida. This is why she didn't go into shock and die before she could finally be taken to the doctor. Painkillers in 1928 were no joke. I'm pretty sure HEROIN was legal around that time. Maybe not OTC, but possibly available in a pharmacy.

ETA link
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

No, heroin became illegal in 1924. However, surprise, it still is used sometimes except not called heroin. Obviously, things have to be very severe. But, just because it was no longer legal doesn't mean Elfrieda couldn't get some because it was only four years later at that point.
Click to expand...

I believe that Laudanum manufacture and distribution was *controlled* at this point, but not yet illegal, so there is a possibility she could have had access to it. I like your thinking with this - a painkiller and brain-distorter in one bottle could help explain both her ability to have survived such burn pain, and be confused as to what had happened.

FWIW I think Hitchcock is in it up to his neck. I also think his wife might have had *some* knowledge of shifty business.

MOO JMO

BTW Thanks to Ausgirl for this fascinating thread! I have been glued to it this afternoon!
 
Wow, some really interesting ideas in these posts! Laudanum - well, drugs would explain a lot, really. Busy morning here, but I'll be putting some thought to this when I get time to ponder it.

The more I read about America in this era, the more amazed I am by the energy of it all - for good and bad, there were so very many astounding people and events...

eta: cheers, Ragamuffin. Just a warning, though - it's a pretty addictive mystery!
 
Laudanum AKA Opium Tincture.

Laudanum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

''Oral doses of opium tincture are rapidly absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract and metabolized in the liver. Peak plasma concentrations of the morphine content are reached in about one hour, and nearly 75% of the morphine content of the opium tincture is excreted in the urine within 48 hours after oral administration''
 
Pharmacists during the 1920s still compounded some of the medications they dispensed. Thus they had the ingredients on hand. Medications from a manufacturer were starting to become more common in the 1920s, but some medications were created on premises. Due to Prohibition, some of these contained wine or whiskey (prescribed by a doctor).

Many medical advances took place in the 1920s as well. I think medicine in the U.S. may have lost some ground in the 1930s due to the Great Depression.

I wonder if, with the electric train line nearby as well as a transformer, the doctors who treated Elfrieda had some experience with electrical burns.
 
After viewing (and trust me, that was not pleasant) a LOT of electrical burns, I'm still pretty convinced Elfrieda may have suffered massive electrocution at some point. Even though the doctor who pointed out the ruptured vessels in her brain consistent with electrocution was "discredited by police" (wth) I am still and thus far inclined to go with his finding.

It may have had something to do with why the power was out in the lower half of the building. And why her memory was all over the place. She actually reminded me of people who've had too much electroshock therapy..

I'm still happy to be wrong, though. But in this case, I strongly suspect I am not.

Reading back over these posts, it strikes me once more - how ALL the people on our 'suspicious' list (and a few others of significance) knew Hitch, and were 'students' of his.

What a tangled web, eh? And I realise that I never did post a clear, definitive timeline...
 
A combination of hypnosis, drugs, and electroshock are very, very common in scenarios where one person tries to control another person's behavior. This was known to be effective even in 1928.

There is a way to check how well someone responds to hypnosis. It is a physical attribute... something about the way the person's eyes look if they are mildly tranced (not all the way under, a skilled hypnotist can do this sneakily). It is very quick to check this. So, if Elfrieda was a person who responded to hypnosis, this may be why she was chosen. There are, by the way, people who do not respond well to hypnosis... they don't really enter a trance. The easy test will detect them and the hypnotist won't bother with them usually.

ETA

I think maybe the electrical burns Elfrieda suffered were nothing to do with the electroshock mentioned above. obviously, normally, they wouldn't be trying to burn the person.
 
It seems to me significant that Elfrieda was walking around town around 10 p.m. It sounds like this was unusual for her. Normally, by then, she would have taken the train home.

What if, despite all of the crazy stuff going on around her with Hitchcock and his weirdness, she ran into the wrong type of people. Or was even set up to run into them.

In addition to liquor, one thing organized crime ran and produced was *advertiser censored*. Even made to order *advertiser censored*. Of course, it is possible that Hitchcock was up to his eyeballs with that as well and groomed girls to pose and forget.

But, this time, something went really wrong... and Elfrieda was hurt badly. Since they didn't want her to get medical attention, they hurt her more. Maybe they thought her injuries were so bad, she'd die long before anyone checked the furnace.
 
Finally, do we KNOW her whispered phone call was to Hitch?

What if it was to Louella? She might have been calling to discuss the letter.
 
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