GUILTY IL - Katrina Smith, 30, beaten to death, Machesney Park, 23 Oct 2012 - #2

[TexasCharm]

WIFR, Channel 23 in Rockford, reported the following during the noon news today:
The Winnebago County Sheriff's Department is out searching again today for more evidence surrounding the murder of Katrina Smith. The body was found in the river near Byron about a week ago and now investigators are out looking for more evidence in Byron today. Visitation will also be held for Katrina tonight at Heartland Community Church, that's on Alpine. It will be from 5 o'clock until nine.

WIFR does not have a link to this story, but perhaps more locals also heard it.

Could be the liberty that the reporter took with words, but it just struck me that she was found NEAR Byron .. but they are looking IN Byron. I wonder if they have a lead, a possible location, or a search warrant .... ??

... inquiring minds and all that stuff...

 

[scadder21]

Why is it so hard? Because you obviously don't know them and I do, so no I don't BELIEVE that he wanted her dead, and scream it and post it 10,000 times just like half the rest of the people running around saying the same thing and I still will refuse to believe it.

He's not that 17 year old anymore, he has 3 amazing and beautiful daughters to think about, he had Katrina who was an amazing and sweet person. You don't know the whole story about the fire, you only know what you have read.

What was his motive since you state he had the motive?

<Mod Snip>

The motive is obvious. The person he married was ending the relationship and moving on.

 

[scadder21]

jumping off your post scadder,

for me, its not even that he had tried before, but more because of the reasons he gave for doing so...fighting, nagging from mother, not getting things the way he wanted." and he said that when everything else he tried (whatever that may have been) he said that he resorted to "trying to scare her (mother)".

imo, jmo & moo -- scaring people in hopes of getting your own way is pathological... im not a shrink, but there is some kind of psychological issue or problem with this kind of thinking that i dont think resolves on its own without major psychological assistance and even then i dont think this type of urge would totally leave a person afflicted with it.

now, on the other hand...what our new member Hoops explained about how and *if* a marital infidelity was playing out negatively and depending on how it was being dealt with *could possibly* introduce another player/players into the situation. BUT THAT IS ALL *IF'S & MAYBES* where as what we know about ts are FACTS. those are much easier to discuss and pontificate on based partly on many many-- too many to count cases where it has indeed been the spouse or in a close relation to the decedent. as many here have said "if I am wrong, I will be the first to apologize"... and with that in mind I do not see any type of "witch hunt" mentality on THIS site. it is occurring on another site administrated by ts's brother -- but that site is strictly forbidden here -- two entirely different things going on - which on the surface may appear similar but are not in any way the same. moo, imo, jmvho....:moo::moo::moo::twocents:

To me the action he did as a teenager was Sociopathic. Setting a fire is one thing because it starts slow, people know it's going on and it could minimize damage. What he did was essentially create a bomb and blew it up because he was mad. That shows no regard for human life. The scam of the elderly is also sociopathic. Two major situations like this in a life time makes me think he's a sociopath. A sociopath has no regard for human life or for others. Sociopaths are precisely those who murder spouses when the spouse moves on and wants to leave a marriage.

 

[B4igo2it]

And to be honest (Post 503) we do not know of everything he has done throughout the years. We only know a very small percentage in my opinion. Character witnesses throughout his life tell a story; and a majority of them are not favorable - That is telling, JMO.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I don't even consider the fire when I think about TS.

I still can't get past:

If your marriage is fine and she was expected home after an errand, why are you not concerned enough to call LE for almost 24 hours?

If you suspected she wasn't coming home, and knew she was staying elsewhere, why lie to LE (or the media) about your marriage being fine and she wasn't staying somewhere else?

The only explanation I can find for that is to cover something up, or deflect attention off yourself.

My hinky meter was going off before I even knew about "the fire" ..

IMO I would guesstimate that a fairly large percentage(especially all of us who are NOT local and therefor did NOT have any preconceived notions or biases when coming to this case) of those leaning toward Todd being responsible came to this conclusion either BEFORE EVER EVEN KNOWING ABOUT THE FIRE(like myself)..or completely separate from even giving the fire weight in this particular crime..

In my long droning diatribes I've posted here in Katrina's case detailing my opinions on what little is known and what IMO is indicating that the estranged husband, Todd is likely to be jnvolved in Katrina's death.. In all of those thousands of words, thoughts, and opinions of mine nowhere will you even find my mentioning anything from Todd Smith's past..nothing..not the fire, not anything..

For me personally MY opinions about Todd's involvement were preceding my knowledge that there even was a past history of arson on the family home(with all family members inside) to which Todd was convicted as well as confessed to citing problematic issues largely WRT his mother.. I firmly agree with nellie in that this is indicative of pathological thought processes and behaviors.. I also agree in that in most cases of individuals whose body, mind, and souls are pathological in nature that it is not something that is just easily "counseled" away, but rather most times by the time intervention of counseling enters the picture the individuals if ever were, are by then certainly not easily rehabilitated from such pathological thought processes and behaviors... All jmo, tho..

 

[katydid23]

Why is it so hard? Because you obviously don't know them and I do, so no I don't BELIEVE that he wanted her dead, and scream it and post it 10,000 times just like half the rest of the people running around saying the same thing and I still will refuse to believe it.

He's not that 17 year old anymore, he has 3 amazing and beautiful daughters to think about, he had Katrina who was an amazing and sweet person. You don't know the whole story about the fire, you only know what you have read.

What was his motive since you state he had the motive?

<Mod Snip>

BBM

I am not sure there is anything that would make it okay for him to set fire to a home where his parents and brother were sleeping. I can't see any other info that would explain it satisfactorily. It takes a very coldhearted, callous person to be able to light that home on fire, imo.

And, he did NOT in fact have Katrina anymore. It seems clear that she was breaking away from the marriage. I think that was his motive and the trigger for his anger. JMO

 

[LMStyle]

The motive is obvious. The person he married was ending the relationship and moving on.

It's not his first relationship that ended and moved on, it wouldn't have been his first divorce. This is just reaching in my opinion, but that's fine, not here to convince anyone because it doesn't matter what people think, my stance will remain my stance until I have proof or facts to believe otherwise. The reason I even started posting here was to debunk things that were straight up fallacies or misinformation.

To me the action he did as a teenager was Sociopathic. Setting a fire is one thing because it starts slow, people know it's going on and it could minimize damage. What he did was essentially create a bomb and blew it up because he was mad. That shows no regard for human life. The scam of the elderly is also sociopathic. Two major situations like this in a life time makes me think he's a sociopath. A sociopath has no regard for human life or for others. Sociopaths are precisely those who murder spouses when the spouse moves on and wants to leave a marriage.

Taking the statement above, however did all 3 members of the family in the home manage to escape? A slow fire I could see, but a massive home explosion? Like you said quick, explosive and deadly. Studies had just started in 1985 (weird coincidence huh?) about adding odorants to propane and natural gas. Mercaptan wasn't widely added until 1988, so thankfully they managed to escape the house before it exploded, but it does make me wonder how they knew to get out? Rumors and hearsay going around from the other half brother and neighbors of the home at the time of the fire also seem to have a different view of what happened.

Wouldn't a sociopath be abusive towards the previous others that ended relationships before, or is it common for them to typically be docile and then just murder the random one? I just don't see a socialpath going dormant for nearly 30 years to reemerge now when the amount of loss is at it's absolutely peak.

 

[LMStyle]

BBM

I am not sure there is anything that would make it okay for him to set fire to a home where his parents and brother were sleeping. I can't see any other info that would explain it satisfactorily. It takes a very coldhearted, callous person to be able to light that home on fire, imo.

And, he did NOT in fact have Katrina anymore. It seems clear that she was breaking away from the marriage. I think that was his motive and the trigger for his anger. JMO

Well I didn't mean it was okay for him to set the fire, I was more alluding to the stories that it wasn't him to begin with. The elder Raprager is the one that has the history of committing fraud numerous times since the fire, and the speculation is that it had his stink all over it and Todd was just the fall guy.

I had a girlfriend once that went with her younger sister and a friend to Wal-mart and the three of them got stopped for shoplifting as they were leaving the store. The younger sister admitted to being guilty and being only 14 years old got a slap on the wrist and her parents had to attend a community service thing with her a couple nights a week for a month. Yeah more punishment for her parents than for her right? The point of the story is the items stolen were all for a baby, the baby the 8 months pregnant friend was about to have. She took the fall for the other two since they were adults and her being a minor the penalty was being banned from wal-mart and the community service thing for a month.

 

[B4igo2it]

snipped for space
... Who would have a reason, who would have the means and who would have the opportunity?
... That they were separated tells me there was already trouble in paradise, not to mention the fact that when there are marital issues, the most vulnerable time is when one spouse is leaving the other.
... believe someone they know is capable of taking the life of another ...
... do not think of nor feel for others, they only use others to their liking and once that person stops providing them with what they want/need, that is when they are most at risk.

Boy oh boy did you ever get inside my head here. Excellent post raising pertinent issues relating to this homicide, IMO.

May I also add, he is a liar; We have witnessed this first hand (happily married). There is documentation showing he is a thief and targeted the elderly! What's left for him to do to convince us that he is not a well man? Even if it is found that he is not involved with Katrina's murder, this guy still needs help and needs it sooner than later. JMO :twocents:

 

[winningx3]

To me the action he did as a teenager was Sociopathic. Setting a fire is one thing because it starts slow, people know it's going on and it could minimize damage. What he did was essentially create a bomb and blew it up because he was mad. That shows no regard for human life. The scam of the elderly is also sociopathic. Two major situations like this in a life time makes me think he's a sociopath. A sociopath has no regard for human life or for others. Sociopaths are precisely those who murder spouses when the spouse moves on and wants to leave a marriage.

Those of us that lived in the area- were neighbors to the family know more than being reported. We lived it, witnessed the dynamics and most of us heard our parents discuss the hinkiness of that fire. just because he confessed does not mean he acted alone. Speculation about this fire- about insurance not paying , about Todd taking the fall, about suing your son because the insurance won't pay you. People do have tunnel vision because of his past, but the past may not be crystal clear. Todd troubled teen maybe...abusive home??? I suspect living near by and knowing this family that this could be true.

.I encourage people who are ready to throw away the key to Todd's cell to do some sleuthing. Fires, there are more than one - and no Todd was not involved but other relatives maybe??? Insurance settlements again more than 1. A huge explosion where all at least two came out in clean clothes and unaffected... Almost like they were not in the home. Again local rumor and Much speculation in the community. A son forced to confess. Hmm maybe..

I don't know if Todd is guilty of this crime against Katrina, but I do believe he was a scapegoat for a family member who was very good at scamming insurance settlements. I think it is almost too obvious that Todd did it. If premeditation existed why would he park the car near where his ex wife used to live. Why lie to cops about his relationship, why admit to seeing her last, why report her missing in roscoe - why leave a body in Byron supposedly where your estranged brother lives. Why I ask would family create a hate site with rubbish accusations and rumors of confessions , rumored witnesses in less they were trying to point blame on him. I just am not convinced that this is what it all seems. It seems a little like a frame job to me. But, maybe I watch to many crime shows.

 

[LunaLight]

Those of us that lived in the area- were neighbors to the family know more than being reported. We lived it, witnessed the dynamics and most of us heard our parents discuss the hinkiness of that fire. just because he confessed does not mean he acted alone. Speculation about this fire- about insurance not paying , about Todd taking the fall, about suing your son because the insurance won't pay you. People do have tunnel vision because of his past, but the past may not be crystal clear. Todd troubled teen maybe...abusive home??? I suspect living near by and knowing this family that this could be true.

.I encourage people who are ready to throw away the key to Todd's cell to do some sleuthing. Fires, there are more than one - and no Todd was not involved but other relatives maybe??? Insurance settlements again more than 1. A huge explosion where all at least two came out in clean clothes and unaffected... Almost like they were not in the home. Again local rumor and Much speculation in the community. A son forced to confess. Hmm maybe..

I don't know if Todd is guilty of this crime against Katrina, but I do believe he was a scapegoat for a family member who was very good at scamming insurance settlements. I think it is almost too obvious that Todd did it. If premeditation existed why would he park the car near where his ex wife used to live. Why lie to cops about his relationship, why admit to seeing her last, why report her missing in roscoe - why leave a body in Byron supposedly where your estranged brother lives. Why I ask would family create a hate site with rubbish accusations and rumors of confessions , rumored witnesses in less they were trying to point blame on him. I just am not convinced that this is what it all seems. It seems a little like a frame job to me. But, maybe I watch to many crime shows.

Justin's own words...

"The minute that I heard he was trying to blame my father and they were trying to blame me for *these fires*, pushing the blame all around, I immediately felt very confident that he had something to do with this," said Raprager.

http://mystateline.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=365202

 

[B4igo2it]

Fire Crews Respond To Report Of House Explosion
Monday October 29, 2012 9:07 PM-UPDATED: Tuesday October 30, 2012 11:36 AM
COLUMBUS, Ohio-Officials said that a woman was inside of the home at the time of the explosion, but no one was injured.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/10/29/columbus-house-explosion.html

12/19/2011 - Clarendon house explodes; no one injured
"A woman was in the kitchen of the house at the time of the explosion and Flanders said he didn’t know how she escaped injury because the kitchen showed damage from steam and other effects of the explosion. Flanders said a cabinet may have blocked the impact. “Somebody was looking out for her with the amount of structural damage and the way this house was twisted,” he said. (Flanders is Fire Chief)
http://rutlandherald.typepad.com/vermonttoday/2011/12/clarendon-house-explodes-no-one-injured.html

When I did my Internet search, these cases were few and far between. There have been many deaths due to house explosions.

 

[scadder21]

It's not his first relationship that ended and moved on, it wouldn't have been his first divorce. This is just reaching in my opinion, but that's fine, not here to convince anyone because it doesn't matter what people think, my stance will remain my stance until I have proof or facts to believe otherwise. The reason I even started posting here was to debunk things that were straight up fallacies or misinformation.



Taking the statement above, however did all 3 members of the family in the home manage to escape? A slow fire I could see, but a massive home explosion? Like you said quick, explosive and deadly. Studies had just started in 1985 (weird coincidence huh?) about adding odorants to propane and natural gas. Mercaptan wasn't widely added until 1988, so thankfully they managed to escape the house before it exploded, but it does make me wonder how they knew to get out? Rumors and hearsay going around from the other half brother and neighbors of the home at the time of the fire also seem to have a different view of what happened.

Wouldn't a sociopath be abusive towards the previous others that ended relationships before, or is it common for them to typically be docile and then just murder the random one? I just don't see a socialpath going dormant for nearly 30 years to reemerge now when the amount of loss is at it's absolutely peak.

Sociopaths have no conscience or regard for other people. That doesn't mean they are violent in every situation where a relationship ends. Also we don't know how his first marriage went or ended.

Katrina's friends have mentioned that she was terrifed of Todd, why would she be terrifed of her husband?

 

[scadder21]

Those of us that lived in the area- were neighbors to the family know more than being reported. We lived it, witnessed the dynamics and most of us heard our parents discuss the hinkiness of that fire. just because he confessed does not mean he acted alone. Speculation about this fire- about insurance not paying , about Todd taking the fall, about suing your son because the insurance won't pay you. People do have tunnel vision because of his past, but the past may not be crystal clear. Todd troubled teen maybe...abusive home??? I suspect living near by and knowing this family that this could be true.

.I encourage people who are ready to throw away the key to Todd's cell to do some sleuthing. Fires, there are more than one - and no Todd was not involved but other relatives maybe??? Insurance settlements again more than 1. A huge explosion where all at least two came out in clean clothes and unaffected... Almost like they were not in the home. Again local rumor and Much speculation in the community. A son forced to confess. Hmm maybe..

I don't know if Todd is guilty of this crime against Katrina, but I do believe he was a scapegoat for a family member who was very good at scamming insurance settlements. I think it is almost too obvious that Todd did it. If premeditation existed why would he park the car near where his ex wife used to live. Why lie to cops about his relationship, why admit to seeing her last, why report her missing in roscoe - why leave a body in Byron supposedly where your estranged brother lives. Why I ask would family create a hate site with rubbish accusations and rumors of confessions , rumored witnesses in less they were trying to point blame on him. I just am not convinced that this is what it all seems. It seems a little like a frame job to me. But, maybe I watch to many crime shows.

So the R's weren't great people that doesn't mean TS was a patsy that took the fall for a scam. I found it pretty silly that Herbert tried to get insurance to pay for the house but he did have somewhat of a case. TS had been in an out of that house for that year and had made it clear that he wasn't a residence of the house.

Was Todd really dumb enough to take the fall for blowing up a house having to spend time in a mental home because the Stepfather who he professed to hate promised him money from insurance when he got out of the mental home? He doesn't seem that stupid a person. I'm sorry.

 

[scadder21]

Winning- by all accounts Todd detested his mom and stepfather. He was 17 almost an adult why is he going to take a fall or be forced to confess for something he didn't do? Heck, if I hate someone at they try to blackmail me regarding insurance fraud I go to the authorities because I know that gets them locked up. He had lived on his own for a time when he was 17 he had less than a year before he could be free of them. It makes no sense at all that he was a part of some big R family scam.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'd like to start by saying, I am angered, annoyed and embarrassed by last night's story by WTVO. In fact I feel like area *journalists* have really dropped the ball on this one. While they have been following Katrina since she was first reported missing they certainly aren't digging or pressing the issue. Which can be exampled by the total back off of the flier incident.

While a certain website implies that most locals think he is guilty that isn't necessarily the truth. I would guess maybe a 60/40 ratio. With the lesser side not being as vocal. I recognize at this juncture TS looks very guilty, I'm not completely convinced. There is a small part of me still on the fence. It is all rather convenient. Perhaps too convenient?

The first thing most of us are considering when looking at TS's volatile behavior is the fire. He set the fire, tried to burn his family alive. Therefore he must be guilty! Right? Then we fast forward 25 years and he is connected with a ponzi scam. A deplorable scam bilking the elderly out of Millions of dollars. The extent of his role in the scam and his knowledge can only be speculated to a certain degree--yet I think we all can agree any involvement at all is unthinkable. That being said this was not a violent act. In those 25 years, he was married, fathered 3 daughters, divorced, and married again to Katrina. During all that time there seems to be a lack of behavior that would implicate he would murder his wife.

What if we took away the fire that he confessed to? Would he still look as guilty? But he confessed!! He confessed to setting that fire...he confessed! **Rumor Alert** Folks in the area have gossiped for years that another party was responsible for that fire and possibly others. Yet the family maintains they were involved in only ONE fire. **Rumor Alert**

As much as I disliked the "story" done by WTVO last night. I found myself watching it and listening to it several times. Why?

"The minute that I heard he was trying to blame my father and they were trying to blame me for these fires, pushing the blame all around, I immediately felt very confident that he had something to do with this," said Raprager.

http://mystateline.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=365202

I am not at all sure what exactly the above is implying or hinting at so I ask would you mind dummying it down for me and just bluntly stating exactly what you mean in the above post??

Re: "isn't it perhaps too convenient" for who?..what is "convenient"? The brutal murder of Katrina? if so, then who exactly is it that it is convenient to?.. immediately preceding the convenient statement you state that you are not convinced Todd is responsible(which is all well and good)..but then to who is it too convenient ??

I would just like to better understand exactly what your thoughts are in the above post as to exactly who and what you are implying is all "too convenient"..

Re: the last issue pertaining to the direct quote made by Justin Raprager..

The words bolded for emphasis I assume are due to the fact that Justin states "fires" as in plural, more than one fire.. This direct quote is in his speaking about the vicious rumors/lies that he claims his half-brothers have recently been spreading since Katrina's disappearance and murder have been in the public eye via media headlines..

He means the plural of fire, ie. FIRES, IMO obviously due to the fact that it is plural, as in MORE THAN ONE FIRE that his brothers have been claiming that Justin and Justin's father are responsible for.. Therefor he states to the reporter via phonecall that they are falsely alleging that Justin/his father are responsible for THE FIRE THAT TODD CONFESSED TO AND WAS CONVICTED OF SETTING, ALONG WITH ALSO CLAIMING THAT JUSTIN/HIS FATHER ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER FIRES AS WELL..

IMO because of their claiming that Justin/dad are responsible FOR MORE THAN ONE FIRE therefor obviously when Justin relays this to the reporter he used the plural word, FIRES(more than one)..

Or are you meaning something completely different and if so would you mind saying what it is?

Am just attempting to understand who and what Katrina's death would have in any way been convenient, beneficial, or even a motivating factor for any other individual to have been responsible for Katrina's extremely brutal in nature death??..

Thanks In Advance

 

[shefner]

I am going to step out and say that someone who knows TS or his family or friends may find it difficult to believe his possible guilt. This is a protection mechanism for our minds.

Take, for example, our small town of 5,500 residents. Recently, 2 city employees stepped down....2 more were fired...1 of those was arrested for embezzlement....2 full-time police officers were arrested by the FBI....2 other LE related individuals were arrested by the FBI...2 other citizens were arrested by the FBI....and the long-time Police Chief and Police Captain both stepped down. From what I understand, more arrests are pending. All of these are related to illegal activities that were going on, both at city hall and within the police organization. Most of us are in shock. These are people we go to church with, people we see regularly about town, people we trust with our city and our security. Its been very demoralizing for our town...and many people have been hurt to realize how far-reaching these crimes were among our own "care-takers."

I say this just to point out that, rumors circulated in town for a while leading up to these revelations but very few of us believed them. We were too close to even consider the betrayal these rumors would inflict, if true. But they were true.

If TS had any part in Katrina's demise, there will be those who proclaimed his innocence that are hurt and filled with disbelief. This is to be expected.

 

[FBEye]

Well I didn't mean it was okay for him to set the fire, I was more alluding to the stories that it wasn't him to begin with. The elder Raprager is the one that has the history of committing fraud numerous times since the fire, and the speculation is that it had his stink all over it and Todd was just the fall guy....

<snipped/BBM>

I see a very disturbing pattern here regarding the information coming from the brother's blog site. I believe it has been mentioned at least three times in this thread that "it" and the rumors posted there are NOT to be discussed in Katrina's threads, per Mod and TOS (See posts 4, 1116, 1163, etc.)
Speculation of innocents and family members, especially rumors from another website, is distracting and tacky MOOIMHO.
And for the record, I don't think the fall guy theory applies either- comparing the gruesome, tragic, untimely murder of a young and beautiful woman to a dishonest shoplifting trio.
You never know who is lurking or reading here.

 

[Araucana]

Could be the liberty that the reporter took with words, but it just struck me that she was found NEAR Byron .. but they are looking IN Byron. I wonder if they have a lead, a possible location, or a search warrant .... ??

... inquiring minds and all that stuff...

Perhaps the reporter DID take liberty with wording by saying IN Byron. The news tonight at 5:00 pm on WIFR stated:
Today, sheriff's deputies revisited the site where her body was found in the hopes of finding more evidence.
Link is http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/Visitation-Tonight-for-Katrina-Smith-179734171.html



My question is, why wait one week to revisit the river site where the body was found?

 

[tiredblondy]

I just want to remind everyone that it's easy to say what they would do in situations but until you're in that situation you will never know for sure!

Thank you Winningx3 for sharing a bit more about what you are familiar with. It helps me a lot. No one knows exactly what went on behind closed doors or what they'd do in that situation. I'm not going to get into how I know that.

I have no dog in this fight as they say but eventually time will tell. I will not however judge T S guilty at this time not without more information from LE.

He could be guilty or he could be innocent. I've seen it turn out,too many times before than I care to remember, that the husband was guilty-However-I also know that it was not always the husband no matter how bad it looked.

I've been here a long time and used to be real quick to judge who was guilty but now I realize that LE holds all the cards and even if I'm strongly suspicious of someone I am not going to give them a death sentence on something they did in their past!

As far as reporting they were still together and that Katrina was just house sitting, I'll take a cue from the LE when they very strongly stated Ms. Smith. He would not be the first husband who did not want to admit the obvious.

But I will not argue with someone who is simply stating that they want to wait to have all the information that LE has before judging.